So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
Zimmerman was treated by an EMT for five minutes afterwards. There was conflicting eye witness testimony as to who was on top. One witness said Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman straddling him in an MMA position. Zimmerman took MMA training, Trayvon didn't.
Like I said, that Stand Your Gun leaves a lot open for interpretation and I'm sure it will either be gotten rid of, or seriously revised. Couple little scratches on the back of his head, but he says Trayvon was smashing his head repeatedly into the concrete. Two black eyes. An EMT treated him for five minutes that night. Most bar fights inflict worse injuries than that. Everything is Zimmerman's word against a dead kid. A dead kid he shouldn't have been stalking and chasing in the first place. Trayvon, who was doing absolutely nothing wrong didn't deserve to defend himself against a guy with a gun?
Botto:
QUOTE
Maybe if you'd have followed police instructions, you wouldn't be in that predicament.
Martin posed no immediate threat to Zimmermann, or anybody else, until the latter decided to intervene, against the instructions of law enforcement.
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..." Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
-------------- "Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..." Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Who is on trial? Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin? Trayvon was on his way back to his girlfriends house after leaving a convenience store.
His face doesn't look too bad the day after either:
Alot of what he tells the police the next day also doesn't match up with the 911 call from that night: http://www.wftv.com/videos...q9
His version is the only one we get to hear since the kid is dead. In the police video from the day after he also says he was on top of Trayvon's back holding his arms spread out. So how did his arms and hands get tucked up underneath him. There are several inconsistencies with his stories.
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..." Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Who is on trial? Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin? Trayvon was on his way back to his girlfriends house after leaving a convenience store.
His face doesn't look too bad the day after either:
Alot of what he tells the police the next day also doesn't match up with the 911 call from that night: http://www.wftv.com/videos...q9
His version is the only one we get to hear since the kid is dead. In the police video from the day after he also says he was on top of Trayvon's back holding his arms spread out. So how did his arms and hands get tucked up underneath him. There are several inconsistencies with his stories.
There are inconsistencies in prosecution witness testimony as well. Remember it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Florida does not decide cases based on public opinion or public outcry. Remember Casey Anthony? Or OJ. The media are experts at inciting anger. Will be interesting to see this all play out.
-------------- "Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
So if Zimmerman is found not guilty, does this mean I should throw an extra mag in my carry bag? Reginald Denny comes to mind. Are people going to really be that upset?
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
Posted on: Jul. 06 2013,4:55 pm
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am)
QUOTE
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
That depends, did you call 911 on a suspicious (by "suspicious" I mean a black kid with skittles and iced tea, probably "up to no good" since it's raining out). Chase down the kid to make sure he "doesn't get away"?
^If the above is true, then getting beat up is probably in order, significantly or insignificantly. If you told the dispatcher that you didn't want those (those meaning black kids with skittles and iced tea) to get away that'll probably be viewed as murder.
Grinning Dragon:
QUOTE
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
You're right, but he's not on trial for keeping an eye on someone. The person he was chasing and "keeping an eye on" wound up dead. Chasing someone and killing them is usually viewed as a crime.
I mean, unless the deceased was suspiciously in the wrong neighborhood with skittles and an iced tea. In which case you should: 1. Alert 911, follow the suspect so that a**hole doesn't get away. 2. Draw sidearm if the person you're chasing down tries to defend himself. He does, afterall, have an iced tea he could use as a weapon. 3. Stand your ground after you have chased him down, that's what the law is for. You can't possibly be expected chase someone and then back down.
-------------- You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
^'and you deduced this just from what you've read or seen in the main stream media, were you there? Have you been paying attention to the trial, from your statements no.
My question was about defending oneself, not the circumstances leading up to it. Zimmerman made ammistake by following, it gets rather cloudy from both sides of the argument after that, but the short sighted twits seem to think that just because Zimmerman had a gun that makes him guilty or that because he was "white" that he shouldn't have defended himself.
This is a mess and the media made it that way wether it be the sensationalism of the incident or the constant hand wringing about racial inequality.
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
That depends, did you call 911 on a suspicious (by "suspicious" I mean a black kid with skittles and iced tea, probably "up to no good" since it's raining out). Chase down the kid to make sure he "doesn't get away"?
^If the above is true, then getting beat up is probably in order, significantly or insignificantly. If you told the dispatcher that you didn't want those (those meaning black kids with skittles and iced tea) to get away that'll probably be viewed as murder.
Grinning Dragon:
QUOTE
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
You're right, but he's not on trial for keeping an eye on someone. The person he was chasing and "keeping an eye on" wound up dead. Chasing someone and killing them is usually viewed as a crime.
I mean, unless the deceased was suspiciously in the wrong neighborhood with skittles and an iced tea. In which case you should: 1. Alert 911, follow the suspect so that a**hole doesn't get away. 2. Draw sidearm if the person you're chasing down tries to defend himself. He does, afterall, have an iced tea he could use as a weapon. 3. Stand your ground after you have chased him down, that's what the law is for. You can't possibly be expected chase someone and then back down.
Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon. Zimmerman seen an unknown person in the area, kept an eye on him and dialed 911 to report a suspicious person, as there had been many break ins in the area.
The dispatcher asked for a cross street or a road marker for an officer to find their location. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, while on the cell with 911 and relayed the information. 911 asked where is the subject? Zimmerman replied "he slipped in between two houses and its dark, and I cannot see him", the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was on foot trying to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
Trayvon was the aggressor, and initiated the fight, Zimmerman was only doing what any other person would have done in this situation, which would have been to survive at all costs.
The lawn in which this fight took place, was witnessed by the home owner and said without a doubt, Trayvon was straddling Zimmerman, and pounding him. By the time the homeowner dialed 911 is when he heard a shot, and the rest is history...
I got all of this from online news and vids of the trial.
-------------- *SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis *The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
Stand Your Ground was supposed to allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves, but since its passage in 2005, the law has been invoked in sometimes unimaginable ways. A Tampa Bay Times examination earlier this year found that in nearly one-third of about 200 cases, it was the defendants who started the fight, shot an unarmed victim or pursued the victim, and still went free.
The perceived effect/example is moot in regards to Florida law. It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject. Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
^That's why I wouldn't doubt if the Stand Your Gun law is ended or seriously revised. Pretty much anyone can use that as a defense. And with the other person dead, there's only one side to the story usually. Zimmerman had no right to "keep an eye" on that kid. He called the police, that's what he'd been trained to do.
QUOTE
So, if Trayvon had a gun that night. He could have said "Crazy ass cracker is stalking me and he has a gun" he could have shot him in self defense. I agree with Botto that there will be riots after the verdict, and I also wouldn't doubt if it is the end of the Stand Your Ground law, or there will be some serious revisions to the law in most states that have it.
No Trayvon would not have been able to use SYG as a defense for shooting someone that was following him. Then there is justice system to decide.
Why would it be the end of SYG or revised (again)? I have serious doubts that Florida will repeal this law.
If people riot, if there is an acquittal of Zimmerman will accomplish nothing more than more people ending up dead. Going hog wild, when things do not go your way and the law is upheld is not how to react in a civilized society, such actions are NEVER acceptable regardless of perceived injustices.
-------------- *SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis *The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
That's for sure. Inciting anger and muddling facts.
GD:
QUOTE
Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon
He was following him in his vehicle, when the kid got freaked out and ran away he got out of his vehicle and started chasing him, you can hear that on the 911 audio.
GD:
QUOTE
The dispatcher asked for a cross street or a road marker for an officer to find their location. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, while on the cell with 911 and relayed the information. 911 asked where is the subject? Zimmerman replied "he slipped in between two houses and its dark, and I cannot see him", the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was on foot trying to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
That's not how it went. Listen to the 911 audio. Zimmerman gave the dispatch the Club House address right away at the beginning of the call, and a little later gave him directions on how to get where he was at. According to the 911 audio, 9 seconds after you can hear Zimmerman's car door shut the dispatcher asks "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says "Yeah" dispatch says "ok, we don't need you to do that." 14 seconds have passed after hearing the car door shut. But he doesn't go back to his vehicle, he keeps going. Besides, he's lived in that neighborhood for 3 years? He's been doing Neighborhood Watch for how long, yet he doesn't even know the street name? Look at a map of that gated community, there are only 3 or 4 streets in the whole thing!
GD:
QUOTE
Trayvon was the aggressor, and initiated the fight, Zimmerman was only doing what any other person would have done in this situation, which would have been to survive at all costs.
He shouldn't have been following him in the first place. He should have waited for police at the mailboxes like dispatch suggested. Instead he tells dispatch to have police call him for his location when they arrive.
The judge already denied acquittal.
Today I found out the weirdest thing so far about this trial. Apparently the defense isn't using Stand Your Ground as their defense. - My guess is that they know that wouldn't fly. But the news sure is full of Stand Your Ground talk in reference to this trial. And even in the trial itself. Seems odd.
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Remember boys and girls,
