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| Post Number: 11
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| Post Number: 12
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Grinning_Dragon 
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2013,7:53 pm |
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(Glad I Left @ Jun. 28 2013,7:36 am)
QUOTE That's a fair question ACLI...
For me, I guess it depends, I would be a lot more protective if I was with my family then if by myself.
Every situation is different so I guess the answer is it depends.
I am a martial artist and have been trained heavily in self defense so I look at things differently than most.
For example, when I enter a restaurant I always sit facing an entrance, and if I can get close to an exit.
I have been training my kids to do the same, the first thing I ask them when we enter a building is, where are the exits, what are your escape options?
Any properly trained martial artist will tell you the best defense is escape.
(same goes for sparring, don't be there when the kick/punch lands vs defending it, but that is another topic)
The thing we are also taught is to avoid situations that can bring danger when possible.
i.e. don't hang out in the alley right after closing time at the bar
Part of the Judo classes I take along with my other martial arts training we get to train with officers from Mankato/N. Mankato and sometimes the surrounding smaller towns with some instructors out of prior lake who specialize in police tactics.
One of the cool things is they teach threat assessment from one or multiple assailants.
What are the dangers and where are they coming from?
Where are my escape options?
Even after taking an assailant to the ground, we are taught to have them in a position where we have them under control but can still keep an eye around us. It is really an eye opening experience, it gives you a perspective the next time you see an episode of cops and wonder why they are restraining someone the way they are.
Anyway as for the question, for me I wouldn't shoot first unless they had a weapon and have shown they wanted to do harm.
Even then, being a martial artist, or having a weapon doesn't guarantee anything, it only increases your odds and that's what it's all about really.
I was right with you until the last part bro.
As with a threat assessment, gauging a persons resistance to when the subject crosses into the danger zone, is no time to wait to whether or not said subject garnishes a weapon. Element of surprise is your first bag of tricks, per se.
A quote of Sun Tzu rings true. "When strong, avoid them. If of high morale, depress them. Seem humble to fill them with conceit. If at ease, exhaust them. If united, separate them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise."
The very notion to wait until fired upon, etc. is down right illogical and costly.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 13
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Glad I Left
Group: Members
Posts: 2306
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2013,9:23 pm |
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I didn't say I would wait until fired upon or attacked. Every situation is different, but if I were walking alone and some guy was following me, I'd change sides of the street, if he changes right after me, now my senses are alerted.
However, the converse is true, if I suspect danger and pull a weapon, but the other guy wasn't a threat and sees me pull a weapon, who knows what could happen.
As for threat assessment, most law enforcement are taught to meet force with equal force. You go past that and you open yourself for all kinds of lawsuits. It is a sad reality in today's world.
As for the non police, rarely do you engage first unless it is a last resort.
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After we screw up health care reform, let's take on the initiative of unscrewing the education system (gov't education)
Tacitus: (c. 56 AD-c. 117) "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
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| Post Number: 14
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2013,9:37 pm |
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(Glad I Left @ Jun. 28 2013,9:23 pm)
QUOTE I didn't say I would wait until fired upon or attacked. Every situation is different, but if I were walking alone and some guy was following me, I'd change sides of the street, if he changes right after me, now my senses are alerted.
However, the converse is true, if I suspect danger and pull a weapon, but the other guy wasn't a threat and sees me pull a weapon, who knows what could happen.
As for threat assessment, most law enforcement are taught to meet force with equal force. You go past that and you open yourself for all kinds of lawsuits. It is a sad reality in today's world.
As for the non police, rarely do you engage first unless it is a last resort.
Every situation is different, yes I understand that.
Maybe it is the difference between MN and LA and how threats are handled. Down here, my detective friend and a few other LEO's, will use any means possible to end a threat or the indication of said threat, the same holds true for regular folks.
I guess what they are saying is, get the upper hand early and keep rollin in on them and never back down from your show of force, IF it ever gets to that point.
But you are right, the avoidance of a confrontation is a persons first choice.
*Edit* In regards to police matching force with force. That is what they are taught in the academy, but out on the streets here, ya, that never happens, the minute someone even has the slightest inkling of being combative, their ass is slammed to the ground or they are getting shot.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 15
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Jun. 30 2013,9:12 pm |
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Question...anybody..
Most media sources refer to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic"?
Why don't they refer to Obama as a "white black" 
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 16
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Glad I Left
Group: Members
Posts: 2306
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm |
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Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
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After we screw up health care reform, let's take on the initiative of unscrewing the education system (gov't education)
Tacitus: (c. 56 AD-c. 117) "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
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| Post Number: 17
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| Post Number: 18
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alcitizens
Albert Lea
Group: Members
Posts: 3664
Joined: Jul. 2009
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Posted on: Jun. 30 2013,10:56 pm |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Jun. 30 2013,10:19 pm)
QUOTE
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize. Exactly. IIRC Zimmerman is half black and half hispanic. The usage of race only divides us further, race baiters like to keep things in terms of color and cry foul at some perceived notion of racism that does not really exist, just so the can remain relevant.
Zimmerman's father is far from being black..
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| Post Number: 19
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jun. 30 2013,11:07 pm |
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(alcitizens @ Jun. 30 2013,10:56 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jun. 30 2013,10:19 pm)
QUOTE
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize. Exactly. IIRC Zimmerman is half black and half hispanic. The usage of race only divides us further, race baiters like to keep things in terms of color and cry foul at some perceived notion of racism that does not really exist, just so the can remain relevant. Zimmerman's father is far from being black..
Welp my bad.
I guess I just don't care enough about the whole thing to begin with, the whole thing is a kangaroo court media run circus, a trail that never should have occurred to begin with, and the only reason is apparently of a spineless DA who caves into mob pressure in a Constitutional Republic.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 20
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
Posts: 1527
Joined: May 2011
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Posted on: Jul. 01 2013,6:54 am |
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I agree with the statements that race is used to sensationalize and divide us when it comes to things like this. It works, it usually does divide us.
I also have not been following this case, but from what I do know about it, I feel Zimmerman was in the wrong. He should not have been following that kid. The 911 dispatch even told him to not follow the kid. He follows him in his truck for awhile, when the kid tries to ditch him he gets out and goes looking for him. If I had been Trayvon I would have been scared as heck.
Zimmerman should have gone after him. In my opinion.
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And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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