Topic: Did Trayvon Martin fear for his life?
started by: alcitizens
Posted by alcitizens on Jun. 28 2013,4:41 am
This question is for those that carry a gun in public.. What would George Zimmerman do if he was walking home from the store with a can of tea and a pack of Skittles while packing a gun and prior to getting home he was stalked and chased by a stranger?
Posted by Banacek on Jun. 28 2013,4:45 am
How do we know that for sure what happened that night? You take a lot for granted and paint a picture your mind wants to see.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jun. 28 2013,5:33 am
(alcitizens @ Jun. 28 2013,4:41 am)
QUOTE
This question is for those that carry a gun in public.. What would George Zimmerman do if he was walking home from the store with a can of tea and a pack of Skittles while packing a gun and prior to getting home he was stalked and chased by a stranger?
You need to understand that the weapon one carries is an absolute final line of defense. It's not to be flashed,it's not to be played with, it's just what it is, a tool for a specific purpose. People like you think that permit holders are all a bunch of Walter Mitty cowboys, a few are and they will probably end up losing their permit for one reason or another.
The majority of ccw's are extremely law abiding citizens that have gone thru training and are taught to avoid dangerous or suspicious situations. They are taught safety, proficiently and also the consequences of drawing their firearm which are great even when you're in the right. But ccw's chose to not be victims, they chose to be active in their own defense and not depend on the police which seem never to be around when needed.
By the way,
Excellent comment Banacek.
Posted by alcitizens on Jun. 28 2013,6:30 am
All I'm asking is if you were being stalked and chased by a stranger, would you wait until you were physically attacked or shoot first?
Posted by Glad I Left on Jun. 28 2013,7:36 am
That's a fair question ACLI...For me, I guess it depends, I would be a lot more protective if I was with my family then if by myself.
Every situation is different so I guess the answer is it depends.
I am a martial artist and have been trained heavily in self defense so I look at things differently than most.
For example, when I enter a restaurant I always sit facing an entrance, and if I can get close to an exit.
I have been training my kids to do the same, the first thing I ask them when we enter a building is, where are the exits, what are your escape options?
Any properly trained martial artist will tell you the best defense is escape.
(same goes for sparring, don't be there when the kick/punch lands vs defending it, but that is another topic)
The thing we are also taught is to avoid situations that can bring danger when possible.
i.e. don't hang out in the alley right after closing time at the bar
Part of the Judo classes I take along with my other martial arts training we get to train with officers from Mankato/N. Mankato and sometimes the surrounding smaller towns with some instructors out of prior lake who specialize in police tactics.
One of the cool things is they teach threat assessment from one or multiple assailants.
What are the dangers and where are they coming from?
Where are my escape options?
Even after taking an assailant to the ground, we are taught to have them in a position where we have them under control but can still keep an eye around us. It is really an eye opening experience, it gives you a perspective the next time you see an episode of cops and wonder why they are restraining someone the way they are.
Anyway as for the question, for me I wouldn't shoot first unless they had a weapon and have shown they wanted to do harm.
Even then, being a martial artist, or having a weapon doesn't guarantee anything, it only increases your odds and that's what it's all about really.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jun. 28 2013,8:58 am
(alcitizens @ Jun. 28 2013,6:30 am)
QUOTE
All I'm asking is if you were being stalked and chased by a stranger, would you wait until you were physically attacked or shoot first?
Stalked or chased? At that point I would try to move to a position that would favor me, shoot first? No, but showing a weapon would hopefully defuse the situation, I'm not talking a flagrant flash but amshow of strength. From there it's the attackers move.
Posted by alcitizens on Jun. 28 2013,9:26 am
Thanks for an excellent answer GIL!!I feel that Trayvon Martin made that life ending decision to stop running and confront his stalker.. He thought he could defend himself if needed.. He was wrong..
Posted by Santorini on Jun. 28 2013,11:39 am
It will be interesting to see this all play out.Witness testimony seems to favor Zimmerman.
Why did that key defense witness lie under oath? Even about something as simple as her age? Only takes one lie to lose credibility...unfortunate. Newest witness (prosecution) testified TM was the one on top which corroborated with another female witness. It's gonna be interesting.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jun. 28 2013,11:45 am
For Zimmerman's sake he better hope the jury remembers one thing, "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"Seems Alky has already convicted Zimmerman, typical.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jun. 28 2013,12:27 pm
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
Posted by Santorini on Jun. 28 2013,7:17 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jun. 28 2013,12:27 pm)
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
Your right! There's too much money to be made using the 'racism' defense...Jesse and Al have never wanted to find a solution...which is why they've worked so hard perpetuating the problem...we'll never be a unified nation cause it's too profitable keeping us separated
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jun. 28 2013,7:53 pm
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 28 2013,7:36 am)
QUOTE
That's a fair question ACLI...
For me, I guess it depends, I would be a lot more protective if I was with my family then if by myself.
Every situation is different so I guess the answer is it depends.
I am a martial artist and have been trained heavily in self defense so I look at things differently than most.
For example, when I enter a restaurant I always sit facing an entrance, and if I can get close to an exit.
I have been training my kids to do the same, the first thing I ask them when we enter a building is, where are the exits, what are your escape options?
Any properly trained martial artist will tell you the best defense is escape.
(same goes for sparring, don't be there when the kick/punch lands vs defending it, but that is another topic)
The thing we are also taught is to avoid situations that can bring danger when possible.
i.e. don't hang out in the alley right after closing time at the bar
Part of the Judo classes I take along with my other martial arts training we get to train with officers from Mankato/N. Mankato and sometimes the surrounding smaller towns with some instructors out of prior lake who specialize in police tactics.
One of the cool things is they teach threat assessment from one or multiple assailants.
What are the dangers and where are they coming from?
Where are my escape options?
Even after taking an assailant to the ground, we are taught to have them in a position where we have them under control but can still keep an eye around us. It is really an eye opening experience, it gives you a perspective the next time you see an episode of cops and wonder why they are restraining someone the way they are.
Anyway as for the question, for me I wouldn't shoot first unless they had a weapon and have shown they wanted to do harm.
Even then, being a martial artist, or having a weapon doesn't guarantee anything, it only increases your odds and that's what it's all about really.
For me, I guess it depends, I would be a lot more protective if I was with my family then if by myself.
Every situation is different so I guess the answer is it depends.
I am a martial artist and have been trained heavily in self defense so I look at things differently than most.
For example, when I enter a restaurant I always sit facing an entrance, and if I can get close to an exit.
I have been training my kids to do the same, the first thing I ask them when we enter a building is, where are the exits, what are your escape options?
Any properly trained martial artist will tell you the best defense is escape.
(same goes for sparring, don't be there when the kick/punch lands vs defending it, but that is another topic)
The thing we are also taught is to avoid situations that can bring danger when possible.
i.e. don't hang out in the alley right after closing time at the bar
Part of the Judo classes I take along with my other martial arts training we get to train with officers from Mankato/N. Mankato and sometimes the surrounding smaller towns with some instructors out of prior lake who specialize in police tactics.
One of the cool things is they teach threat assessment from one or multiple assailants.
What are the dangers and where are they coming from?
Where are my escape options?
Even after taking an assailant to the ground, we are taught to have them in a position where we have them under control but can still keep an eye around us. It is really an eye opening experience, it gives you a perspective the next time you see an episode of cops and wonder why they are restraining someone the way they are.
Anyway as for the question, for me I wouldn't shoot first unless they had a weapon and have shown they wanted to do harm.
Even then, being a martial artist, or having a weapon doesn't guarantee anything, it only increases your odds and that's what it's all about really.
I was right with you until the last part bro.
As with a threat assessment, gauging a persons resistance to when the subject crosses into the danger zone, is no time to wait to whether or not said subject garnishes a weapon. Element of surprise is your first bag of tricks, per se.
A quote of Sun Tzu rings true. "When strong, avoid them. If of high morale, depress them. Seem humble to fill them with conceit. If at ease, exhaust them. If united, separate them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise."
The very notion to wait until fired upon, etc. is down right illogical and costly.
Posted by Glad I Left on Jun. 28 2013,9:23 pm
I didn't say I would wait until fired upon or attacked. Every situation is different, but if I were walking alone and some guy was following me, I'd change sides of the street, if he changes right after me, now my senses are alerted.However, the converse is true, if I suspect danger and pull a weapon, but the other guy wasn't a threat and sees me pull a weapon, who knows what could happen.
As for threat assessment, most law enforcement are taught to meet force with equal force. You go past that and you open yourself for all kinds of lawsuits. It is a sad reality in today's world.
As for the non police, rarely do you engage first unless it is a last resort.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jun. 28 2013,9:37 pm
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 28 2013,9:23 pm)
QUOTE
I didn't say I would wait until fired upon or attacked. Every situation is different, but if I were walking alone and some guy was following me, I'd change sides of the street, if he changes right after me, now my senses are alerted.
However, the converse is true, if I suspect danger and pull a weapon, but the other guy wasn't a threat and sees me pull a weapon, who knows what could happen.
As for threat assessment, most law enforcement are taught to meet force with equal force. You go past that and you open yourself for all kinds of lawsuits. It is a sad reality in today's world.
As for the non police, rarely do you engage first unless it is a last resort.
However, the converse is true, if I suspect danger and pull a weapon, but the other guy wasn't a threat and sees me pull a weapon, who knows what could happen.
As for threat assessment, most law enforcement are taught to meet force with equal force. You go past that and you open yourself for all kinds of lawsuits. It is a sad reality in today's world.
As for the non police, rarely do you engage first unless it is a last resort.
Every situation is different, yes I understand that.
Maybe it is the difference between MN and LA and how threats are handled. Down here, my detective friend and a few other LEO's, will use any means possible to end a threat or the indication of said threat, the same holds true for regular folks.
I guess what they are saying is, get the upper hand early and keep rollin in on them and never back down from your show of force, IF it ever gets to that point.
But you are right, the avoidance of a confrontation is a persons first choice.
*Edit* In regards to police matching force with force. That is what they are taught in the academy, but out on the streets here, ya, that never happens, the minute someone even has the slightest inkling of being combative, their ass is slammed to the ground or they are getting shot.
Posted by Santorini on Jun. 30 2013,9:12 pm
Question...anybody.. Most media sources refer to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic"?
Why don't they refer to Obama as a "white black"
Posted by Glad I Left on Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm
Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jun. 30 2013,10:19 pm
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Exactly.
IIRC Zimmerman is half black and half hispanic.
The usage of race only divides us further, race baiters like to keep things in terms of color and cry foul at some perceived notion of racism that does not really exist, just so the can remain relevant.
Posted by alcitizens on Jun. 30 2013,10:56 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jun. 30 2013,10:19 pm)
QUOTE
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Exactly.
IIRC Zimmerman is half black and half hispanic.
The usage of race only divides us further, race baiters like to keep things in terms of color and cry foul at some perceived notion of racism that does not really exist, just so the can remain relevant.
Zimmerman's father is far from being black..
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jun. 30 2013,11:07 pm
(alcitizens @ Jun. 30 2013,10:56 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jun. 30 2013,10:19 pm)
QUOTE
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Exactly.
IIRC Zimmerman is half black and half hispanic.
The usage of race only divides us further, race baiters like to keep things in terms of color and cry foul at some perceived notion of racism that does not really exist, just so the can remain relevant.
Zimmerman's father is far from being black..
Welp my bad.
I guess I just don't care enough about the whole thing to begin with, the whole thing is a kangaroo court media run circus, a trail that never should have occurred to begin with, and the only reason is apparently of a spineless DA who caves into mob pressure in a Constitutional Republic.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 01 2013,6:54 am
I agree with the statements that race is used to sensationalize and divide us when it comes to things like this. It works, it usually does divide us. I also have not been following this case, but from what I do know about it, I feel Zimmerman was in the wrong. He should not have been following that kid. The 911 dispatch even told him to not follow the kid. He follows him in his truck for awhile, when the kid tries to ditch him he gets out and goes looking for him. If I had been Trayvon I would have been scared as heck.
Zimmerman should have gone after him. In my opinion.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 03 2013,12:23 am
(Glad I Left @ Jun. 30 2013,9:28 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we refer to anyone in terms of color?
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Unless you need to give a description of color for some legitimate reason it makes no sense other than to sensationalize.
Exactly the point!!
Yet who has kept bias, racism, prejudice alive?! The media.
Posted by pepi-lapew on Jul. 03 2013,8:03 am
Who really cares about any of it? All they are doing is making a dog and pony show out of it anyway.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 03 2013,10:00 am
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
After the race riots, someone somewhere will bemoan the disproportionate number of black males in prison. Yet every single culprit it the near demise of the global economy in 2007 has served exactly 0 days in jail, and are all still living in the lap of luxury.
Now tell me this country of ours knows the first thing about justice and fairness.
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 03 2013,11:12 am
(Botto 82 @ Jun. 28 2013,12:27 pm)
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 03 2013,12:47 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 03 2013,10:00 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
After the race riots, someone somewhere will bemoan the disproportionate number of black males in prison. Yet every single culprit it the near demise of the global economy in 2007 has served exactly 0 days in jail, and are all still living in the lap of luxury.
Now tell me this country of ours knows the first thing about justice and fairness.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 03 2013,2:32 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 03 2013,10:00 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
After the race riots, someone somewhere will bemoan the disproportionate number of black males in prison. Yet every single culprit it the near demise of the global economy in 2007 has served exactly 0 days in jail, and are all still living in the lap of luxury.
Now tell me this country of ours knows the first thing about justice and fairness.
It'd be kinda hard to put that many congressmen and union members in prison.
Posted by Moparman on Jul. 03 2013,4:34 pm
Ya because all those union members making and spending their money in this country is a horrible concept! 
Posted by pepi-lapew on Jul. 05 2013,7:10 am
I dont care how much a person makes? As long as I dont have to give my money to these low life scumbags that are to lazy to work. Bring back the DEBT PRISONS then some of them can pay off their bills!
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 05 2013,2:57 pm
Breaking news!State rests in Trayvon Martin shooting trial; defense asking the judge for a judgment of acquittal. Says no reasonable juror could find him guilty based on evidence presented by prosecution.
What wiil judge decide?
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 05 2013,3:43 pm
^^ I was listening to that all week, if the judge follows logic she probably will kick him loose. The state failed to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. On the other hand if we're going for social justice which seems so fashionable these days Zimmerman's screwed.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 05 2013,4:31 pm
Social justice is based on the clueless, uninformed and plays towards emotion instead of logic. There is NOTHING logical about social justice and has no place being in a Constitutional Republic and is at most times in direct conflict with the Constitution.
Posted by nedkelly on Jul. 06 2013,5:55 am
Florida's " stand your ground law" must have some influence on the courts outcome... A lot was said about the law when this instance first occurred....
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 06 2013,7:04 am
(nedkelly @ Jul. 06 2013,5:55 am)
QUOTE
Florida's " stand your ground law" must have some influence on the courts outcome... A lot was said about the law when this instance first occurred...
Zimmerman had said during an interview that he'd never heard of the Stand Your Ground law. But in court they had the instructor from his class who said Zimmerman did very well in his class and that the Stand Your Ground law was covered extensively, also the Florida version of the law was covered in his class.
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
The instructor at the Neighborhood Watch meetings stressed at every meeting to only call police and to never get close to anyone if they suspect something. The 911 dispatch told Zimmerman to not follow the kid.
I guess this is a difficult case. "Social Justice" aside: They'll have to find him guilty of something don't you think?
A person stalks you in his vehicle, when you try to ditch the person and hide, the stalker gets out of the vehicle and goes looking for you. You have no idea why this person is after you, most likely you are scared, and you don't want to lead the person right to your house and endanger anyone else. You don't have the right to defend yourself against the stalker? The person stalking you has the right to kill you in so-called self defense?
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 06 2013,8:48 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,7:04 am)
QUOTE
(nedkelly @ Jul. 06 2013,5:55 am)
QUOTE
Florida's " stand your ground law" must have some influence on the courts outcome... A lot was said about the law when this instance first occurred...
Zimmerman had said during an interview that he'd never heard of the Stand Your Ground law. But in court they had the instructor from his class who said Zimmerman did very well in his class and that the Stand Your Ground law was covered extensively, also the Florida version of the law was covered in his class.
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
The instructor at the Neighborhood Watch meetings stressed at every meeting to only call police and to never get close to anyone if they suspect something. The 911 dispatch told Zimmerman to not follow the kid.
I guess this is a difficult case. "Social Justice" aside: They'll have to find him guilty of something don't you think?
A person stalks you in his vehicle, when you try to ditch the person and hide, the stalker gets out of the vehicle and goes looking for you. You have no idea why this person is after you, most likely you are scared, and you don't want to lead the person right to your house and endanger anyone else. You don't have the right to defend yourself against the stalker? The person stalking you has the right to kill you in so-called self defense?
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
Why do they need to find him guilty of something, because the mob demands it? Funny I didn't realize we lived in a democracy. The letter of the law needs to be followed as written, not with a grey area in mind. He is either guilty or he isn't, there is NO middle ground or the "Well he followed, so thats gotta account for something"
Mob pressure should have ZERO influence on any trial, the rights of the accused outweigh the feelings of the many. Another way to put is, his right trumps their dead.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 06 2013,9:20 am
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 06 2013,8:48 am)
QUOTE
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,7:04 am)
QUOTE
(nedkelly @ Jul. 06 2013,5:55 am)
QUOTE
Florida's " stand your ground law" must have some influence on the courts outcome... A lot was said about the law when this instance first occurred...
Zimmerman had said during an interview that he'd never heard of the Stand Your Ground law. But in court they had the instructor from his class who said Zimmerman did very well in his class and that the Stand Your Ground law was covered extensively, also the Florida version of the law was covered in his class.
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
The instructor at the Neighborhood Watch meetings stressed at every meeting to only call police and to never get close to anyone if they suspect something. The 911 dispatch told Zimmerman to not follow the kid.
I guess this is a difficult case. "Social Justice" aside: They'll have to find him guilty of something don't you think?
A person stalks you in his vehicle, when you try to ditch the person and hide, the stalker gets out of the vehicle and goes looking for you. You have no idea why this person is after you, most likely you are scared, and you don't want to lead the person right to your house and endanger anyone else. You don't have the right to defend yourself against the stalker? The person stalking you has the right to kill you in so-called self defense?
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
Why do they need to find him guilty of something, because the mob demands it? Funny I didn't realize we lived in a democracy. The letter of the law needs to be followed as written, not with a grey area in mind. He is either guilty or he isn't, there is NO middle ground or the "Well he followed, so thats gotta account for something"
Mob pressure should have ZERO influence on any trial, the rights of the accused outweigh the feelings of the many. Another way to put is, his right trumps their dead.
The point I'm making is what sort of example would that set? People can arm themselves, stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong, shoot and kill the person and say they did it in self defense?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 06 2013,9:33 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,9:20 am)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 06 2013,8:48 am)
QUOTE
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,7:04 am)
QUOTE
(nedkelly @ Jul. 06 2013,5:55 am)
QUOTE
Florida's " stand your ground law" must have some influence on the courts outcome... A lot was said about the law when this instance first occurred...
Zimmerman had said during an interview that he'd never heard of the Stand Your Ground law. But in court they had the instructor from his class who said Zimmerman did very well in his class and that the Stand Your Ground law was covered extensively, also the Florida version of the law was covered in his class.
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
The instructor at the Neighborhood Watch meetings stressed at every meeting to only call police and to never get close to anyone if they suspect something. The 911 dispatch told Zimmerman to not follow the kid.
I guess this is a difficult case. "Social Justice" aside: They'll have to find him guilty of something don't you think?
A person stalks you in his vehicle, when you try to ditch the person and hide, the stalker gets out of the vehicle and goes looking for you. You have no idea why this person is after you, most likely you are scared, and you don't want to lead the person right to your house and endanger anyone else. You don't have the right to defend yourself against the stalker? The person stalking you has the right to kill you in so-called self defense?
The Medical Examiner in court said Zimmerman's injuries were "very insignificant".
Why do they need to find him guilty of something, because the mob demands it? Funny I didn't realize we lived in a democracy. The letter of the law needs to be followed as written, not with a grey area in mind. He is either guilty or he isn't, there is NO middle ground or the "Well he followed, so thats gotta account for something"
Mob pressure should have ZERO influence on any trial, the rights of the accused outweigh the feelings of the many. Another way to put is, his right trumps their dead.
The point I'm making is what sort of example would that set? People can arm themselves, stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong, shoot and kill the person and say they did it in self defense?
The perceived effect/example is moot in regards to Florida law.
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 06 2013,9:44 am
So, if Trayvon had a gun that night. He could have said "Crazy ass cracker is stalking me and he has a gun" he could have shot him in self defense. I agree with Botto that there will be riots after the verdict, and I also wouldn't doubt if it is the end of the Stand Your Ground law, or there will be some serious revisions to the law in most states that have it.
QUOTE
Stand Your Ground was supposed to allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves, but since its passage in 2005, the law has been invoked in sometimes unimaginable ways. A Tampa Bay Times examination earlier this year found that in nearly one-third of about 200 cases, it was the defendants who started the fight, shot an unarmed victim or pursued the victim, and still went free.
< http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-01...slation >
Florida's law of Justifiable Force:
< http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statute...76.html >
EDITED:
GD:
QUOTE
The perceived effect/example is moot in regards to Florida law.
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
^That's why I wouldn't doubt if the Stand Your Gun law is ended or seriously revised. Pretty much anyone can use that as a defense. And with the other person dead, there's only one side to the story usually. Zimmerman had no right to "keep an eye" on that kid. He called the police, that's what he'd been trained to do.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 06 2013,10:25 am
I think what gets lost in all this is the notion that we all have to keep an eye on one another now. It's divisive, and often overblown. Everybody is suspicious of everybody, anymore. The Mower County Sheriff often appears on the local AM radio station, and encourages everyone to "call in suspicious behavior." Who the Hell is even qualified to know what that is, anymore?
My guess is, because of all this B.S., there are a lot of George Zimmermanns out there, looking for that 15 minutes of glory they might enjoy if they help collar some imaginary Bad Guy. And I don't think it's socially healthy.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 06 2013,11:12 am
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am)
QUOTE
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
Maybe if you'd have followed police instructions, you wouldn't be in that predicament.
Martin posed no immediate threat to Zimmermann, or anybody else, until the latter decided to intervene, against the instructions of law enforcement.
Or did I miss something?
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 06 2013,11:33 am
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am)
QUOTE
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
Zimmerman was treated by an EMT for five minutes afterwards. There was conflicting eye witness testimony as to who was on top. One witness said Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman straddling him in an MMA position. Zimmerman took MMA training, Trayvon didn't.
Like I said, that Stand Your Gun leaves a lot open for interpretation and I'm sure it will either be gotten rid of, or seriously revised. Couple little scratches on the back of his head, but he says Trayvon was smashing his head repeatedly into the concrete. Two black eyes. An EMT treated him for five minutes that night. Most bar fights inflict worse injuries than that.
Everything is Zimmerman's word against a dead kid. A dead kid he shouldn't have been stalking and chasing in the first place. Trayvon, who was doing absolutely nothing wrong didn't deserve to defend himself against a guy with a gun?
Botto:
QUOTE
Maybe if you'd have followed police instructions, you wouldn't be in that predicament.
Martin posed no immediate threat to Zimmermann, or anybody else, until the latter decided to intervene, against the instructions of law enforcement.
Martin posed no immediate threat to Zimmermann, or anybody else, until the latter decided to intervene, against the instructions of law enforcement.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 06 2013,12:15 pm
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..."Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 06 2013,12:54 pm
(Santorini @ Jul. 06 2013,12:15 pm)
QUOTE
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..."
Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Who is on trial? Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin? Trayvon was on his way back to his girlfriends house after leaving a convenience store.
He doesn't look too bad the night of the shooting:
< http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news...ng?lite >
His face doesn't look too bad the day after either:
Alot of what he tells the police the next day also doesn't match up with the 911 call from that night:
< http://www.wftv.com/videos...q9 >
His version is the only one we get to hear since the kid is dead. In the police video from the day after he also says he was on top of Trayvon's back holding his arms spread out. So how did his arms and hands get tucked up underneath him. There are several inconsistencies with his stories.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 06 2013,1:20 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,12:54 pm)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Jul. 06 2013,12:15 pm)
QUOTE
"People can stalk a person who is doing nothing wrong..."
Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Isn't that the purpose of a trial? To filter through the evidence and see if he was actually 'doing nothing wrong'?
Who is on trial? Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin? Trayvon was on his way back to his girlfriends house after leaving a convenience store.
He doesn't look too bad the night of the shooting:
< http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news...ng?lite >
His face doesn't look too bad the day after either:
Alot of what he tells the police the next day also doesn't match up with the 911 call from that night:
< http://www.wftv.com/videos...q9 >
His version is the only one we get to hear since the kid is dead. In the police video from the day after he also says he was on top of Trayvon's back holding his arms spread out. So how did his arms and hands get tucked up underneath him. There are several inconsistencies with his stories.
There are inconsistencies in prosecution witness testimony as well.
Remember it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Florida does not decide cases based on public opinion or public outcry. Remember Casey Anthony? Or OJ. The media are experts at inciting anger.
Will be interesting to see this all play out.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 06 2013,4:20 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jun. 28 2013,12:27 pm)
QUOTE
Zimmerman will be found not guilty. Riots will ensue. The libtard media will decry social injustice. Jesse and Al will get some face time. And so on.
So if Zimmerman is found not guilty, does this mean I should throw an extra mag in my carry bag? Reginald Denny comes to mind. Are people going to really be that upset?
Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 06 2013,4:55 pm
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am)
QUOTE
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
That depends, did you call 911 on a suspicious (by "suspicious" I mean a black kid with skittles and iced tea, probably "up to no good" since it's raining out). Chase down the kid to make sure he "doesn't get away"?
^If the above is true, then getting beat up is probably in order, significantly or insignificantly. If you told the dispatcher that you didn't want those (those meaning black kids with skittles and iced tea) to get away that'll probably be viewed as murder.
Grinning Dragon:
QUOTE
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
You're right, but he's not on trial for keeping an eye on someone. The person he was chasing and "keeping an eye on" wound up dead. Chasing someone and killing them is usually viewed as a crime.
I mean, unless the deceased was suspiciously in the wrong neighborhood with skittles and an iced tea. In which case you should:
1. Alert 911, follow the suspect so that a**hole doesn't get away.
2. Draw sidearm if the person you're chasing down tries to defend himself. He does, afterall, have an iced tea he could use as a weapon.
3. Stand your ground after you have chased him down, that's what the law is for. You can't possibly be expected chase someone and then back down.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 06 2013,8:32 pm
^'and you deduced this just from what you've read or seen in the main stream media, were you there? Have you been paying attention to the trial, from your statements no.My question was about defending oneself, not the circumstances leading up to it. Zimmerman made ammistake by following, it gets rather cloudy from both sides of the argument after that, but the short sighted twits seem to think that just because Zimmerman had a gun that makes him guilty or that because he was "white" that he shouldn't have defended himself.
This is a mess and the media made it that way wether it be the sensationalism of the incident or the constant hand wringing about racial inequality.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 06 2013,10:10 pm
(irisheyes @ Jul. 06 2013,4:55 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 06 2013,10:48 am)
QUOTE
So if I'm on my back on the the ground getting wailed on by someone, I'm supposed to take the time to think to myself "are these insignificant or significant injuries I'm sustaining?"
That depends, did you call 911 on a suspicious (by "suspicious" I mean a black kid with skittles and iced tea, probably "up to no good" since it's raining out). Chase down the kid to make sure he "doesn't get away"?
^If the above is true, then getting beat up is probably in order, significantly or insignificantly. If you told the dispatcher that you didn't want those (those meaning black kids with skittles and iced tea) to get away that'll probably be viewed as murder.
Grinning Dragon:
QUOTE
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
You're right, but he's not on trial for keeping an eye on someone. The person he was chasing and "keeping an eye on" wound up dead. Chasing someone and killing them is usually viewed as a crime.
I mean, unless the deceased was suspiciously in the wrong neighborhood with skittles and an iced tea. In which case you should:
1. Alert 911, follow the suspect so that a**hole doesn't get away.
2. Draw sidearm if the person you're chasing down tries to defend himself. He does, afterall, have an iced tea he could use as a weapon.
3. Stand your ground after you have chased him down, that's what the law is for. You can't possibly be expected chase someone and then back down.
Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon. Zimmerman seen an unknown person in the area, kept an eye on him and dialed 911 to report a suspicious person, as there had been many break ins in the area.
The dispatcher asked for a cross street or a road marker for an officer to find their location. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, while on the cell with 911 and relayed the information. 911 asked where is the subject? Zimmerman replied "he slipped in between two houses and its dark, and I cannot see him", the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was on foot trying to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
Trayvon was the aggressor, and initiated the fight, Zimmerman was only doing what any other person would have done in this situation, which would have been to survive at all costs.
The lawn in which this fight took place, was witnessed by the home owner and said without a doubt, Trayvon was straddling Zimmerman, and pounding him. By the time the homeowner dialed 911 is when he heard a shot, and the rest is history...
I got all of this from online news and vids of the trial.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 06 2013,11:04 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 06 2013,9:44 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Stand Your Ground was supposed to allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves, but since its passage in 2005, the law has been invoked in sometimes unimaginable ways. A Tampa Bay Times examination earlier this year found that in nearly one-third of about 200 cases, it was the defendants who started the fight, shot an unarmed victim or pursued the victim, and still went free.
< http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-01...slation >
Florida's law of Justifiable Force:
< http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statute...76.html >
EDITED:
GD:
QUOTE
The perceived effect/example is moot in regards to Florida law.
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
It isn't a crime to follow someone and keep an eye on said subject.
Feelings and/or emotions have NO basis or justification in regards to Florida's SYG.
^That's why I wouldn't doubt if the Stand Your Gun law is ended or seriously revised. Pretty much anyone can use that as a defense. And with the other person dead, there's only one side to the story usually. Zimmerman had no right to "keep an eye" on that kid. He called the police, that's what he'd been trained to do.
QUOTE
So, if Trayvon had a gun that night. He could have said "Crazy ass cracker is stalking me and he has a gun" he could have shot him in self defense.
I agree with Botto that there will be riots after the verdict, and I also wouldn't doubt if it is the end of the Stand Your Ground law, or there will be some serious revisions to the law in most states that have it.
I agree with Botto that there will be riots after the verdict, and I also wouldn't doubt if it is the end of the Stand Your Ground law, or there will be some serious revisions to the law in most states that have it.
No Trayvon would not have been able to use SYG as a defense for shooting someone that was following him.
Then there is justice system to decide.
Why would it be the end of SYG or revised (again)? I have serious doubts that Florida will repeal this law.
If people riot, if there is an acquittal of Zimmerman will accomplish nothing more than more people ending up dead. Going hog wild, when things do not go your way and the law is upheld is not how to react in a civilized society, such actions are NEVER acceptable regardless of perceived injustices.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 07 2013,5:04 am
Santorini:QUOTE
The media are experts at inciting anger.
That's for sure. Inciting anger and muddling facts.
GD:
QUOTE
Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon
He was following him in his vehicle, when the kid got freaked out and ran away he got out of his vehicle and started chasing him, you can hear that on the 911 audio.
GD:
QUOTE
The dispatcher asked for a cross street or a road marker for an officer to find their location. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, while on the cell with 911 and relayed the information. 911 asked where is the subject? Zimmerman replied "he slipped in between two houses and its dark, and I cannot see him", the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was on foot trying to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
That's not how it went. Listen to the 911 audio. Zimmerman gave the dispatch the Club House address right away at the beginning of the call, and a little later gave him directions on how to get where he was at. According to the 911 audio, 9 seconds after you can hear Zimmerman's car door shut the dispatcher asks "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says "Yeah" dispatch says "ok, we don't need you to do that." 14 seconds have passed after hearing the car door shut.
But he doesn't go back to his vehicle, he keeps going.
Besides, he's lived in that neighborhood for 3 years? He's been doing Neighborhood Watch for how long, yet he doesn't even know the street name? Look at a map of that gated community, there are only 3 or 4 streets in the whole thing!
GD:
QUOTE
Trayvon was the aggressor, and initiated the fight, Zimmerman was only doing what any other person would have done in this situation, which would have been to survive at all costs.
He shouldn't have been following him in the first place. He should have waited for police at the mailboxes like dispatch suggested. Instead he tells dispatch to have police call him for his location when they arrive.
The judge already denied acquittal.
Today I found out the weirdest thing so far about this trial. Apparently the defense isn't using Stand Your Ground as their defense. - My guess is that they know that wouldn't fly. But the news sure is full of Stand Your Ground talk in reference to this trial. And even in the trial itself. Seems odd.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 07 2013,11:20 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 07 2013,5:04 am)
QUOTE
Santorini:
That's for sure. Inciting anger and muddling facts.
GD:
He was following him in his vehicle, when the kid got freaked out and ran away he got out of his vehicle and started chasing him, you can hear that on the 911 audio.
GD:
That's not how it went. Listen to the 911 audio. Zimmerman gave the dispatch the Club House address right away at the beginning of the call, and a little later gave him directions on how to get where he was at. According to the 911 audio, 9 seconds after you can hear Zimmerman's car door shut the dispatcher asks "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says "Yeah" dispatch says "ok, we don't need you to do that." 14 seconds have passed after hearing the car door shut.
But he doesn't go back to his vehicle, he keeps going.
Besides, he's lived in that neighborhood for 3 years? He's been doing Neighborhood Watch for how long, yet he doesn't even know the street name? Look at a map of that gated community, there are only 3 or 4 streets in the whole thing!
GD:
He shouldn't have been following him in the first place. He should have waited for police at the mailboxes like dispatch suggested. Instead he tells dispatch to have police call him for his location when they arrive.
The judge already denied acquittal.
Today I found out the weirdest thing so far about this trial. Apparently the defense isn't using Stand Your Ground as their defense. - My guess is that they know that wouldn't fly. But the news sure is full of Stand Your Ground talk in reference to this trial. And even in the trial itself. Seems odd.
QUOTE
The media are experts at inciting anger.
That's for sure. Inciting anger and muddling facts.
GD:
QUOTE
Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon
He was following him in his vehicle, when the kid got freaked out and ran away he got out of his vehicle and started chasing him, you can hear that on the 911 audio.
GD:
QUOTE
The dispatcher asked for a cross street or a road marker for an officer to find their location. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, while on the cell with 911 and relayed the information. 911 asked where is the subject? Zimmerman replied "he slipped in between two houses and its dark, and I cannot see him", the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was on foot trying to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
That's not how it went. Listen to the 911 audio. Zimmerman gave the dispatch the Club House address right away at the beginning of the call, and a little later gave him directions on how to get where he was at. According to the 911 audio, 9 seconds after you can hear Zimmerman's car door shut the dispatcher asks "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says "Yeah" dispatch says "ok, we don't need you to do that." 14 seconds have passed after hearing the car door shut.
But he doesn't go back to his vehicle, he keeps going.
Besides, he's lived in that neighborhood for 3 years? He's been doing Neighborhood Watch for how long, yet he doesn't even know the street name? Look at a map of that gated community, there are only 3 or 4 streets in the whole thing!
GD:
QUOTE
Trayvon was the aggressor, and initiated the fight, Zimmerman was only doing what any other person would have done in this situation, which would have been to survive at all costs.
He shouldn't have been following him in the first place. He should have waited for police at the mailboxes like dispatch suggested. Instead he tells dispatch to have police call him for his location when they arrive.
The judge already denied acquittal.
Today I found out the weirdest thing so far about this trial. Apparently the defense isn't using Stand Your Ground as their defense. - My guess is that they know that wouldn't fly. But the news sure is full of Stand Your Ground talk in reference to this trial. And even in the trial itself. Seems odd.
The judge denied a request for acquittal. The jury can still acquit Zimmerman.
Everyone seems to focus on the fact that Zimmerman was following.
Big deal, following someone IS NOT an act of aggression.
My version of what I have learned was just a pity cliff notes of what happened, I am not about to type it all out, I still stand by my cliff notes.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 07 2013,3:52 pm
I guess the best way to have a better idea of what might have happened is to watch the court testimony. Kind of hard for people to be able to find the time for that though. I've finally watched the court testimony of 2 of the witnesses. The two who live right where it happened that night. The guy you mentioned said that it looked like the guy on top was pushing or holding someone down. He saw downward arm/shoulder movements but can't be sure if any punches were thrown. He never heard any noises that sounded like hits/punches or head slams. For some reason, neither the defense or prosecution asked him if one of the people had told him to call 9-11. Several times he said the person on the bottom was wearing a light color "either red or white". Several times he says "either red or white". He says he only heard a call for help 1 or 2 or 3 times. He only saw what was going on for 8-10 seconds. The woman that lives in the home right next to his says she heard scuffling and a couple of yelps right which sounded right outside her back door. she called 9-11, You can hear screaming in the background the entire time, right up until the gunshot. Someone was screaming bloody murder which ended abruptly when the shot is fired.
The court testimony is entirely different than almost all national mainstream news is portraying it.
Jonathon Good Testimony: Skip to about 22 minutes into the video. The first guy is from the security company talking about the cameras in the community.
Jenna Lauer Testimony:
If you don't watch and listen to unedited court testimony for yourself, you are being misinformed and are spreading misinformation. I'm not being a B-word, it's just the truth.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 07 2013,10:18 pm
QUOTE
The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
Then why didn't the scuffle happen next to the truck?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 08 2013,8:43 am
(Liberal @ Jul. 07 2013,10:18 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
The 911 dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, in which Zimmerman complied and returned to his truck. That is when Trayvon approached Zimmerman and the conflict began.
Then why didn't the scuffle happen next to the truck?
How in the hell should I know, ask Zimmerman or get an Ouija board and ask Trayvon, yourself.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 08 2013,3:20 pm
This is going to be interesting! Cases can be made for both.With OJ I knew he would be found not guilty ( not saying I agreed)
but watching the trial, evidence, and the charge. Same with Anthony case (not that I agreed) but listening to the trial
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 08 2013,3:22 pm
This is going to be interesting! Cases can be made for both.With OJ I knew he would be found not guilty ( not saying I agreed)
but watching the trial, evidence, and the charge. Same with Anthony case (not that I agreed) but listening to the trial the charge prosecution didn't prove beyond reasonable doubt.
This one I go back and forth!
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 08 2013,7:19 pm
< Myths Exposed From the George Zimmerman / Treyvon Martin Trial >
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 09 2013,1:05 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 08 2013,7:19 pm)
QUOTE
< Myths Exposed From the George Zimmerman / Treyvon Martin Trial >
Ammoland.com?
Gee, no bias there...
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 09 2013,1:38 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 09 2013,1:05 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 08 2013,7:19 pm)
QUOTE
< Myths Exposed From the George Zimmerman / Treyvon Martin Trial >
Ammoland.com?
Gee, no bias there...
So in other words, you couldn't refute the author's editorial and instead chose to attack the place that is hosting the editorial. Got it.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 09 2013,2:13 pm
I would expect the same out of you, had I posted something from a site such as naacp.com or somesuch, defending Trayvon's actions.I have no bias in this case. I'm betting that doesn't quite ring true for the ammoland.com folks, as I'm pretty sure that they have a horse in this race, namely Zimmermann being not guilty of any wrongdoing.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 09 2013,2:28 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 09 2013,2:13 pm)
QUOTE
I would expect the same out of you, had I posted something from a site such as naacp.com or somesuch, defending Trayvon's actions.
I have no bias in this case. I'm betting that doesn't quite ring true for the ammoland.com folks, as I'm pretty sure that they have a horse in this race, namely Zimmermann being not guilty of any wrongdoing.
I have no bias in this case. I'm betting that doesn't quite ring true for the ammoland.com folks, as I'm pretty sure that they have a horse in this race, namely Zimmermann being not guilty of any wrongdoing.
The difference is that I do read and process what is being said before I dismiss it. I don't care what site it is posted on, but I can smell BS a galaxy away. I read stuff on huffpo, slate and other left leaning sites, while I have to choke back the bile that seems to coat my throat at times when reading such drivel and get to the meat of the article. Usually when an article starts out with touchy feely, kumbaya BS, I know it isn't going to be very logical and is written to draw upon emotions instead of cold heartless facts.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 09 2013,2:56 pm
All reporting will have some bias to it. Even as far as this forum goes, almost everyone cherry-picks media that support their positions. In the end, the side with the most money and the biggest legal department usually wins anyway.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 10 2013,3:47 am
GD:QUOTE
The difference is that I do read and process what is being said before I dismiss it.
You must not have listened to that 911 audio before you posted that Zimmerman complied and went back to his truck. Again, I'm not trying to be a Bword, but the only way to get the best understanding of what may have happened that night is to watch unedited court testimony for yourself, and read/watch/listen to official documents/video from when the shooting happened. That's very very time consuming, but unfortunately that's the only way to get a better understanding, and is the ONLY way to not help spread false information.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 10 2013,3:58 am
I'm using your article for thisMyth #1:
Nobody here in the forum has ever mentioned anything about that.
Myth #2:
Nobody here in the forum has ever said a person has to follow a 911 order. It's been pointed out that through neighborhood watch training and through the classes he had taken that if they see someone suspicious it is stressed to not go after the person yourself but to call police and let them handle it. Was he trying to get an address or was he following Trayvon when he got out of his vehicle? When 911 asked if he was following him he said yes. That night he told the police that 911 had asked for an exact address (not true) and that he was looking for one when he was attacked.
Myth #3:
By the legal definition given for stalking, yes Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon:
QUOTE
(a)“Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b)“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose.
(b)“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose.
-Look at a map or watch the entire re-enactment from the next day. Zimmerman followed him for a long way in his vehicle. -But Trayvon is dead, so we won't know if it "caused substantial emotional distress" to him. - I think it would for most people.
Myth #4:
People in favor of Zimmerman seem to think he was the only one who deserved to use self-defense.
Myth #5:
Same explanation as for #4.
Myth #6:
It's Zimmerman's word against a dead kid's.
This part of Myth #6 is BS:
QUOTE
there is more evidence to suggest that Mr. Martin actually initiated two confrontations. One when he walked around Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and two when he said, “Why you following me?”
Zimmerman never told 911 that Trayvon circled his car. He said: "He's looking at me. He's coming to check me out." - Maybe Trayvon just wanted to get a look who was following him? - Myth #6 makes it sound like asking a person why they are following you is worse than someone actually following you. Trayvon didn't know why Zimmerman was following him, he could have done something to Zimmerman at his car-he didn't. He could have tried to get home-and risk an unknown person following him there and endangering anyone else in the home.
Myth #7:
Again, we only have Zimmerman's version of events. More than one Zimmerman version. Scenario #2 from this myth leaves out at least one possibility. Maybe when Zimmerman "Went to go grab my cell phone, but I had left it in a different pocket. I looked down at my pants pocket, and he said 'You got a problem now'....
My guess is that's when Trayvon saw the gun. Why was Zimmerman even talking about forgetting which pocket his cell phone was in during the police re-enactment. I happen to think Zimmerman either grabbed the gun at that moment, or he was just letting Trayvon see that he had a gun. Maybe Trayvon was the one screaming bloody murder that whole time and trying to keep from getting shot.- My scenario isn't cold hard facts, but neither is the rest of your article.
Myth #8:
Nobody in the forum has mentioned anything to do with #8.
Zimmerman also said in that first police interview that he was walking back to his vehicle when Trayvon "jumped out of the bushes" and attacked him.- That story changed the next day during the police re-enactment. (There were no bushes to back up that story.)
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 10 2013,5:29 pm
Rosalind- stop, just stop with the "Im not trying to be the Bword" I know you are not trying to be, no worries here the thought never crossed my mind. 
As I have said before, this trial is a trial that should have NEVER been. The whole thing is nothing more than a racially motivated witch hunt and now it seems the DOJ facilitated the anti Zimmerman protests.
< DOJ or the lack of a dept of justice >
The whole trial is nothing more than a waste of taxpayers dollars.
An < expert witness > tears apart the so called testimony of the other experts witnesses, ie, the M.E and the other idiot.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 10 2013,7:58 pm
I don't think it was a witch hunt. The lead investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter that night, but was pressured from the top not to.Zimmerman told three different stories about what led up to the confrontation in less than 24 hours.- I should think that alone is enough to warrant more of an investigation in the very least.
About that CBS news link. Like I said, for anyone to have a better understanding about what happened you can't listen to the news. The only way is to watch and listen to unedited court testimony, and read documents/interviews from the first couple of days after the shooting.
From the link:
QUOTE
Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with having his head hit against concrete more than once, Di Maio said. The former neighborhood watch captain said the teen smashed his head into a sidewalk several times before he claimed he acted in self-defense.
...
QUOTE
Di Maio also said it's possible to receive trauma without visible wounds. "You can get severe trauma to the head without external injuries, actually," Di Maio said.
^Too bad Zimmerman didn't go see a doctor that night or the next day at least. More information would be nice. I did see that guy's testimony. He could only account for 6 different spots on Zimmerman's head/face. He said they could be the result of 6 different blows.
Zimmerman had two small cuts on the back of his head. One was almost 1 inch long, the other was almost 1/4 inch long. He pointed to markings he called (sorry if I get this word wrong) punctate marks. One on either side of his forehead which he said most likely came from being in contact with concrete. Either slammed or just pushed down on. While I was watching his testimony and he was pointing to the picture I couldn't figure out how his head could be bent at such an angle to make either of those marks if he was laying on his back and his head was being slammed down.
According to the autopsy testimony the only injuries Trayvon had other than the bullet wound, was a 1/4 inch X 1/8 inch abrasion (wasn't even bad enough to bleed) on his left hand, and 2 more abrasions on his left hand which were less than 1/16 inch.
I really don't believe Zimmerman's story at all. None of his stories.
About your link on the DOJ. I really really can't stand Al Sharpton. I'd like to know to what extent the CRS was involved. I'm assuming they became involved AFTER the protests had already begun. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that information.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 11 2013,8:40 am
Not a witch-hunt eh?QUOTE
The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
Yep, justice is served when it is placated to a mob.
QUOTE
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
Self-defense is self-defense, it matters not if the assailant was armed or not.
QUOTE
It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
It is a sad day in America, when mob pressure is placated to and violates Liberty and justice.
I say again, this is a trial that should never have been, the voice of a mob should have been a moot point and dismissed, America is NOT a democracy.
< The rest here. >
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 11 2013,4:45 pm
Or, maybe he should have charged Zimmerman with manslaughter like the Lead Investigator wanted to. The Lead Investigator felt there was enough evidence to charge him.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 11 2013,5:41 pm
Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 11 2013,6:15 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,8:40 am)
QUOTE
Not a witch-hunt eh?
Yep, justice is served when it is placated to a mob.
Self-defense is self-defense, it matters not if the assailant was armed or not.
It is a sad day in America, when mob pressure is placated to and violates Liberty and justice.
I say again, this is a trial that should never have been, the voice of a mob should have been a moot point and dismissed, America is NOT a democracy.
< The rest here. >
QUOTE
The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
Yep, justice is served when it is placated to a mob.
QUOTE
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
Self-defense is self-defense, it matters not if the assailant was armed or not.
QUOTE
It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
It is a sad day in America, when mob pressure is placated to and violates Liberty and justice.
I say again, this is a trial that should never have been, the voice of a mob should have been a moot point and dismissed, America is NOT a democracy.
< The rest here. >
Quotes from Ex police chief in your article:
QUOTE
Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
QUOTE
"That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.
From a year ago:
QUOTE
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
< http://abcnews.go.com/US...6011674 >
Sounds to me like there's just a whole lot of people trying to cover their butts. On the third day after the shooting, Serino put together all of Zimmerman's conflicting comments, from the 911 call, the police re-enactment, and all police/Zimmerman interviews done up until that point. Serino and the other investigator grilled him big time on all the conflicting information and all he'd say to every question: "I don't know" " I don't remember"
I would think that since there was only one person who knew what happened that night and he kept telling different stories and nothing added up... there might be reason to do more investigating or charge him with something.
GD:
QUOTE
Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
It's strange that they didn't include manslaughter from the beginning. Could they have done that? I don't know how this sort of thing works. I'm assuming it would be kind of bad for the state attorney if Zimmerman does get convicted. He's already looking pretty bad to people who are paying attention to the trial.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 11 2013,8:33 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,5:41 pm)
QUOTE
Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
I thought manslaughter needed to be a lesser included charge for it to be considered by the jury.
Remember when Tobias Telles killed Robbie Walker in Austin? The prosecution went for first-degree murder, and only that, and was unable to prove its case, so Telles walked. Isn't this kind of like that?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 11 2013,8:46 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 11 2013,8:33 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,5:41 pm)
QUOTE
Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
I thought manslaughter needed to be a lesser included charge for it to be considered by the jury.
Remember when Tobias Telles killed Robbie Walker in Austin? The prosecution went for first-degree murder, and only that, and was unable to prove its case, so Telles walked. Isn't this kind of like that?
That is what I am thinking, I thought it odd that the judge and prosecution, out of the blue start throwing out charges, during a trial for 2nd degree murder. If the jury is smart, they would dismiss any and all additional BS, such as this.
If the state is afraid of a riotous mob, and is grasping for straws just to charge and convict one man, just to keep the peace, is justice being served or perverted? I would think the latter. A persons Liberty trumps the feelings of an angry mob.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 11 2013,10:57 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,8:46 pm)
QUOTE
If the state is afraid of a riotous mob, and is grasping for straws just to charge and convict one man, just to keep the peace, is justice being served or perverted? I would think the latter. A persons Liberty trumps the feelings of an angry mob.
You keep assuming that Zimmerman is innocent. In my free time, whenever I can, I've been watching court testimony and police interviews with Zimmerman, I wasn't sure if his actions fit the charge of 2nd degree murder, but the more testimony and information I see, the more I lean that way. Without a doubt, I think he is guilty of manslaughter.
I looked it up, apparently it is standard procedure in Florida to grant the option of lesser charges in murder cases if either side requests it.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 11 2013,11:12 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jul. 11 2013,10:57 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,8:46 pm)
QUOTE
If the state is afraid of a riotous mob, and is grasping for straws just to charge and convict one man, just to keep the peace, is justice being served or perverted? I would think the latter. A persons Liberty trumps the feelings of an angry mob.
You keep assuming that Zimmerman is innocent. In my free time, whenever I can, I've been watching court testimony and police interviews with Zimmerman, I wasn't sure if his actions fit the charge of 2nd degree murder, but the more testimony and information I see, the more I lean that way. Without a doubt, I think he is guilty of manslaughter.
I looked it up, apparently it is standard procedure in Florida to grant the option of lesser charges in murder cases if either side requests it.
Yes I do consider Zimmerman to be innocent, he has not been found guilty by a jury of his peers and sentenced by a judge. Consider me odd if I do not tow the, "OMG, that man had a gun and killed someone, therefore he is automatically guilty!"
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jul. 11 2013,11:48 pm
GD:QUOTE
If the state is afraid of a riotous mob, and is grasping for straws just to charge and convict one man, just to keep the peace, is justice being served or perverted? I would think the latter. A persons Liberty trumps the feelings of an angry mob.
And how would justice be served by letting a guilty man get away with murder?
QUOTE
A persons Liberty trumps the feelings of an angry mob
And a young man's life doesn't count for anything?
Spend a few (or several) hours (or days) watching court testimony. Stop listening or reading the crap that is in the news about the trial. Crap is exactly what it is.
Goodgrief, last week I went looking for a map of the community online to see if there really was only 3 or 4 streets for the whole thing. I found a map on Headline News Channel's website (the cable news channel carrying the entire trial beginning to end), Just out of curiosity I skimmed through some of the information below the map and right away I found something I knew to be false- and at that time I had watched probably not even 2 hours of testimony!
It's ridiculous. Don't waste time on the news, because most likely it's BS they're shoveling.
GD:
QUOTE
Consider me odd if I do not tow the, "OMG, that man had a gun and killed someone, therefore he is automatically guilty!"
I'm not one of those people either.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 13 2013,7:14 am
So what's it gonna be,Guilty of 2nd degree murder?
Guilty of manslaughter?
Acquittal ?
Hung jury?
If real justice is served it'll be acquittal, prosecution has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
More than likely it'll be manslaughter, a more socially correct verdict.
Mob rules I guess.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jul. 13 2013,10:42 am
313.9 million people in The United States; and we're supposed to be fixated on this guy?
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 13 2013,1:05 pm
This is why people slow way down at an auto accident.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 13 2013,11:21 pm
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 13 2013,7:14 am)
QUOTE
So what's it gonna be,
Guilty of 2nd degree murder?
Guilty of manslaughter?
Acquittal ?
Hung jury?
If real justice is served it'll be acquittal, prosecution has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
More than likely it'll be manslaughter, a more socially correct verdict.
Mob rules I guess.
Guilty of 2nd degree murder?
Guilty of manslaughter?
Acquittal ?
Hung jury?
If real justice is served it'll be acquittal, prosecution has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
More than likely it'll be manslaughter, a more socially correct verdict.
Mob rules I guess.
It's not guilty!
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 14 2013,1:44 am
Wow, justice is served, not guilty. 
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 14 2013,9:17 am
I myself, am getting a kick out of all of the butt-hurt whining, race baiting hyperbole.I wasn't surprised by the verdict, and expected a NOT GUILTY verdict to be reached. This trial was purely politically motivated and based on fantasy.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 14 2013,9:24 am
MSNBC is acting like they're having a funeral.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 14 2013,9:28 am
Most of my friends said they are watching msnbc for purely comedic reasons. I cannot stand msnbc and that channel has been deleted from my list.From what I am told, msnbc sent out a plethora of pity party invites, and they all showed up pissed off and teary eyed and are going off on tangents that are so far fetched and illogical that they start to stammer into a stutters rage.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 14 2013,10:10 am
^Yep, pretty much.I watch a little of morning Joe every morning just to get a little sh!t in my life, otherwise I don't watch it. Reverend Al might be comical this week though.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 14 2013,10:10 am
...I'm sorry, along with Alcitizen.
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 14 2013,12:32 pm
MSNBC should be pulled from the air! Way to fuel the race card! He was tried and found NOT Guilty by his peers. Case closed. NAACP, MSNBS and any other group need to except this is our system. He, as far as I think, was ran through they system just to show these groups that our system does work. We have the best legal system in the world, and yet these groups still are not happy. They are a shame to what our laws stand for.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 14 2013,5:06 pm
Interesting...An IT employee for the state prosecutor’s office in Florida came forward with information for Zimmerman’s defense team around a month ago. Ben Kruidbos has testified that he believed the prosecutors withheld evidence. Kruidbos had discovered deleted photos and texts on Martin’s phone that were never released to the defense. These photos included Martin in possession of a firearm and a marijuana plant.
The Florida Times-Union has informed the general public that Kruidbos received a hand delivered letter terminating his employment. The letter was delivered at Kruidbos’ house Friday evening and claimed he “can never again be trusted to step foot in this office.” Kruidbos’ attorney, Wesley White, has made a statement to The Florida Times-Union on Kruidbos’ behalf. White had resigned from the prosecutor’s office last December and would have a good idea of the operations within. With a hand delivered letter stating what it did, guilt has been admitted in my opinion. It appears even with an unfair trial, justice prevailed regardless.
< more here >
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 14 2013,7:28 pm
Uh oh. FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racistWell there goes that political witch hunt avenue. Idiot race baiter holder and co will have a VERY hard time trying to make this about BS civil rights crap.
After interviewing nearly three dozen people in the George Zimmerman murder case, the FBI found no evidence that racial bias was a motivating factor in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, records released Thursday show.
Even the lead detective in the case, Sanford Det. Chris Serino, told agents that he thought Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because of his attire and the circumstances — but not his race.
Serino saw Zimmerman as “having little hero complex, but not as a racist.”
Read more here: < http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012...ink=cpy >
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 14 2013,7:31 pm
YAY!Zimmerman lawyer to move ‘asap’ against NBC News
Sue the crap out of NBC, and maybe we can get lucky and NBC will close its doors.
Last night’s not-guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial will enable the neighborhood-watch volunteer to resume his case against NBC News for the mis-editing of his widely distributed call to police. Back in December, Zimmerman sued NBC Universal Media for defamation over the botched editing, which depicted him as a hardened racial profiler.
< More here >
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 15 2013,5:09 am
Ol' George is not out of the woods yet, our mother of a Fed. Gov. Is considering charging criminal civil rights violations. Here we go, the thought police.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 15 2013,8:45 am
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 15 2013,5:09 am)
QUOTE
Ol' George is not out of the woods yet, our mother of a Fed. Gov. Is considering charging criminal civil rights violations. Here we go, the thought police.
If you read the post above you, you will see the doj is going to have a very hard time bringing that up for a federal trial on so called BS civil rights. There is a FBI investigation report that will hinder the continued witch hunt.
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 15 2013,9:19 am
I wish he would bring up his own case. He was jailed and tried for this because a few groups of people were made. We arrest people on law, not peoples out cries. He should have never been arrested in the first place, much less charged. Man, he was put through the system, he was cleared. Jesse Jackson needs better things to do, the man was cleared, he was being beat and was in fear for his life, the guy they so easily hudle around was the one who was beating George and was the one who was shot. The bad guy lost.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 15 2013,9:32 am
It's never been about racial equality and harmony. The latter scares the crap out of the more secretive elements of our government. A divided populace is seen as being more easily distracted and manipulated. Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 15 2013,11:29 am
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 15 2013,8:45 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 15 2013,5:09 am)
QUOTE
Ol' George is not out of the woods yet, our mother of a Fed. Gov. Is considering charging criminal civil rights violations. Here we go, the thought police.
If you read the post above you, you will see the doj is going to have a very hard time bringing that up for a federal trial on so called BS civil rights. There is a FBI investigation report that will hinder the continued witch hunt.
Sorry about that, quick post while I was still chewing cheerios. I think they want to have the folks think they're considering this for a few days to let thing calm down.
Posted by This is my real name on Jul. 15 2013,12:40 pm
I wonder if the Martins' lawyer is already formulating a wrongful death suit against Zimmerman? I can't say I'd be surprised. There are already all kinds of vigils and demonstrations going on — which makes me wonder, where were all these people a year or so ago when it actually happened? Trayvon has been dead for over a year and they're just holding vigils for him now?The protests I understand (though I do not agree), but vigils? Really?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 15 2013,1:34 pm
Family will not be able to file wrongful death suits. Many states have amended their laws, that shield people in self defense cases from being sued. The martin family in this case is SOL.
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 15 2013,3:03 pm
Funny Jesse Jackson and the like really are not saying much about thier banner boy referanceing George as a "creepy ass cracker". I find it funny how they use the race card, but I think that is the only thing about racism I heard during the case? I think it shows just how stand up these groups are. I would have liked to hear the phone call from them to the DOJ. Maybe something like this.. "Hello, DOJ. Ya know that creppy ass cracker? We want him brought up on charges based something to do with race, because a group of his peers found him not guilty of the charges of killing our pure, young, non-racist boy. Now go get the cracker! The white hispanic cracker."
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 15 2013,3:39 pm
I sh!t you not, Martin Bashir just posed the question,"Is having a black face now a fatal complexion"?
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 16 2013,8:10 am
The racism/ profiling card is too profitable! Sharp ton, Jackson, NAACP make too much money using racism/ profiling every chance they can. THEY are the problem! They have the 'black' community convinced they cannot succeed at virtually anything based on their merit/ skills etc. but they need a handicap to move ahead, aka, affirmative action. The racism thing has been so overdone...IMO
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 16 2013,8:19 am
Well not all of them, of which I will quote a very good friend of mine.QUOTE
obama, holder, jackson, sharpton, et al, have done NOTHING GOOD for our race and they are nothing more than carpetbaggin' ghetto niggers and have set us further back than any white racist could ever have.
But then again friends like this are hated and called all kinds of names by their own kin. /sad
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 16 2013,8:26 am
QUOTE
Documents Obtained by Judicial Watch Detail Role of Justice Department in Organizing Trayvon Martin Protests
Document: DOJ Community Relations Service was deployed to Sanford, FL, “to provide technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17-year-old African American male.”
(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it has obtained documents in response to local, state, and federal records requests revealing that a little-known unit of the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford, FL, following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.
JW filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the DOJ on April 24, 2012; 125 pages were received on May 30, 2012. JW administratively appealed the request on June 5, 2012, and received 222 pages more on March 6, 2013. According to the documents:
< DOJ deployed >
Document: DOJ Community Relations Service was deployed to Sanford, FL, “to provide technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17-year-old African American male.”
(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it has obtained documents in response to local, state, and federal records requests revealing that a little-known unit of the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford, FL, following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.
JW filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the DOJ on April 24, 2012; 125 pages were received on May 30, 2012. JW administratively appealed the request on June 5, 2012, and received 222 pages more on March 6, 2013. According to the documents:
< DOJ deployed >
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 16 2013,8:44 am
So, if I'm reading this right. THe DOJ sent a department that they over see to " to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman." Why the hell is the DOJ sending out a unit to help organize a ralley against a guy they are investigating? Conflict of interest perhaps?
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 16 2013,2:26 pm
Just seen Al Sharpton is leading rallies for "Justice for Trayvon". So can he be sued if someone gets killed or injuried in the rallies he is leading? Who is left holding the bill for the extra police, street clean up, and what not? I wonder if the DOJ is helping him get this together?!?!? I'll have to brush up on it but why doesnt George have civil rights not to be punished like this from the great Rev. Al Sharpton, after all he was found not guilty...
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 16 2013,2:31 pm
pl.n.The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.
I see a couple of his rights that might be violated by Sharptons actions. Anyone else see it that way?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 16 2013,6:35 pm
< Interesting > read. My O my.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 16 2013,7:32 pm
So it's been 5 or 6 pages of posts since we've heard from our more "left handed" friends, what say they?
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 16 2013,9:37 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 16 2013,6:35 pm)
QUOTE
< Interesting > read. My O my.
Wow!
Deceit at every level!
Would love to hear what Jesse Al naacp
have for an excuse to defend that behavior!
Crazy
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,3:40 am
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 16 2013,7:32 pm)
QUOTE
So it's been 5 or 6 pages of posts since we've heard from our more "left handed" friends, what say they?
Sometimes its just fun to go to the zoo and watch the monkeys throw a bunch of sh!t at each other..
Judicial Watch..
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 17 2013,4:21 am
^ I gotta admit, I got a good laugh out of that.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 17 2013,5:55 am
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,3:40 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 16 2013,7:32 pm)
QUOTE
So it's been 5 or 6 pages of posts since we've heard from our more "left handed" friends, what say they?
Sometimes its just fun to go to the zoo and watch the monkeys throw a bunch of sh!t at each other..
Judicial Watch..
So this is why I like watching MSNBC sometimes.
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 17 2013,8:42 am
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,3:40 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 16 2013,7:32 pm)
QUOTE
So it's been 5 or 6 pages of posts since we've heard from our more "left handed" friends, what say they?
Sometimes its just fun to go to the zoo and watch the monkeys throw a bunch of sh!t at each other..
Judicial Watch..
So maybe it would be more newsworthy if I used the NBC audio tape they hacked to make Zimmerman sound racist?
< Shameless: NBC Never Tells Viewers it Smeared Zimmerman with Doctored Audio >
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 17 2013,8:49 am
I am trying to understand this train of thought:A mob of blacks beating on whites, Mexicans and Asians while yelling this is for trayvon is gang related violence and not a hate crime, hmmmm.
QUOTE
On the morning of the 14th of July (this past Sunday) my step son, a Lance Corporal in the United States Marine Corps (USMC) , was out with two other friends off base in 29 Palms CA. One was a Marine the other a Civillian. Steven and the other Marine are both white, and they're mutual friend is black. The three men observed a large group (15-20) black males walking down the street making a lot of noise, shouting, causing a scene. Many were carryintg weapons, ie...batons, and at least one tire iron.
The mob notices the three men sitting on the porch smoking and talking and the mob proceeded to make they're way up the drive. At this point Steven, the other Marine and they're civilian friend told them to leave. The mob attacked the other Marine first. Steven, seeing his friend being assaulted attempted to intervene. Steven's black friend also stepped in demanding they stop. The mob ignored Stevens black friend and attacked Steven instead. They struck him in the head with a tire iron, punched him repeatedly, kicked him repeatedly and then stabbed him in the right side of his chest. Once they had him on the ground and unconscious they continued to beat him. The other Marine was able to get away while Steven was eventually robbed while he lay helpless and unable to defend himself.
The police did arrive along with an ambulance to transport Steven to the Desert Palms hospital where he received multiple stitches, and staples to his chest and head. It should be noted that the mob that attacked Steven was composed entirely of black men, 15 to 20 of them. At no time did they attack Stevens black friend. All this took place Sunday the 14th of July 2013 following the George Zimmerman verdict.
I have talked to the Sheriffs Dept. and have been promised on multiple occasions to have a detective call me back. It has not happened. My wife was able to speak to a detective Silva who stated he didn't see this as a hate crime. Merely gang activity. I gave the authorities information on where my sons stolen credit cards were being used and the only response we have gotten was. "well, it probably is not the person or persons who committed the assault." I am more then a little outraged. How is this not a hate crime? Why are they trying to sweep this under the rug? Have we fallen so far that our Service men and women must now fear for they're own lives on native soil and not be given the treatment and respect deserved? I won't even go into details on the treatment he received from the hospital or how they treated my wife when she called to ask about the condition of her son.
The "Law Enforcement" in this instance is the San Bernardino Sheriffs Dept."
The mob notices the three men sitting on the porch smoking and talking and the mob proceeded to make they're way up the drive. At this point Steven, the other Marine and they're civilian friend told them to leave. The mob attacked the other Marine first. Steven, seeing his friend being assaulted attempted to intervene. Steven's black friend also stepped in demanding they stop. The mob ignored Stevens black friend and attacked Steven instead. They struck him in the head with a tire iron, punched him repeatedly, kicked him repeatedly and then stabbed him in the right side of his chest. Once they had him on the ground and unconscious they continued to beat him. The other Marine was able to get away while Steven was eventually robbed while he lay helpless and unable to defend himself.
The police did arrive along with an ambulance to transport Steven to the Desert Palms hospital where he received multiple stitches, and staples to his chest and head. It should be noted that the mob that attacked Steven was composed entirely of black men, 15 to 20 of them. At no time did they attack Stevens black friend. All this took place Sunday the 14th of July 2013 following the George Zimmerman verdict.
I have talked to the Sheriffs Dept. and have been promised on multiple occasions to have a detective call me back. It has not happened. My wife was able to speak to a detective Silva who stated he didn't see this as a hate crime. Merely gang activity. I gave the authorities information on where my sons stolen credit cards were being used and the only response we have gotten was. "well, it probably is not the person or persons who committed the assault." I am more then a little outraged. How is this not a hate crime? Why are they trying to sweep this under the rug? Have we fallen so far that our Service men and women must now fear for they're own lives on native soil and not be given the treatment and respect deserved? I won't even go into details on the treatment he received from the hospital or how they treated my wife when she called to ask about the condition of her son.
The "Law Enforcement" in this instance is the San Bernardino Sheriffs Dept."
HMMMMM.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 17 2013,9:11 am
Let the lawsuits begin!!The prosecutions ' whistle blower' who was fired after handing over 'withheld' evidence' has filed suit against the prosecutors.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,10:08 am
Justice was served under Florida law(Stand Your Ground).. There you can start the fight and finish the fight by being the first to pull the trigger.. Doesn't hurt to show that you got your a$$ kicked before you pulled the trigger and have no witnesses either..
In Minnesota we would charge you with Murder and lock you up.. Under the same circumstances you would be convicted..
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 17 2013,10:25 am
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:08 am)
QUOTE
Justice was served under Florida law(Stand Your Ground).. There you can start the fight and finish the fight by being the first to pull the trigger..
Doesn't hurt to show that you got your a$$ kicked before you pulled the trigger and have no witnesses either..
In Minnesota we would charge you with Murder and lock you up..
Doesn't hurt to show that you got your a$$ kicked before you pulled the trigger and have no witnesses either..
In Minnesota we would charge you with Murder and lock you up..
This trial was not about stand your ground...he waived his right to a stand your ground defense.
It was about self defense.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,10:46 am
Judges instructions to the Jury If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the "Right to stand his Ground" and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
< http://www.ajc.com/news...qZ >
These instructions to the Jury by the Judge are not used in Minnesota, only in STAND YOUR GROUND STATES..
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 17 2013,11:37 am
OK, Zimmerman did not break the law, wether it be in Florida or Minnesota or any other state. Marten was on top of him pounding on him, the gun was not pulled until then. This is the way Zimmerman told it and themway it seemed to happen. Nobody else was there.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,12:18 pm
Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state.. Get it?"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 17 2013,1:48 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:46 am)
QUOTE
Judges instructions to the Jury
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the "Right to stand his Ground" and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
< http://www.ajc.com/news...qZ >
These instructions to the Jury by the Judge are not used in Minnesota, only in STAND YOUR GROUND STATES..
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the "Right to stand his Ground" and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
< http://www.ajc.com/news...qZ >
These instructions to the Jury by the Judge are not used in Minnesota, only in STAND YOUR GROUND STATES..
Stand your ground and self defense are pretty much the same thing under Florida law so, of course, the jury has to receive instructions regarding Florida law when considering a verdict...did the prosecution prove its case that it wasn't self defense? Absolutely not. Because Zimmerman acted within the confines of Florida law.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 17 2013,1:56 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,12:18 pm)
QUOTE
Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state.. Get it?
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
MN has self defense laws!
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 17 2013,5:05 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,12:18 pm)
QUOTE
Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state.. Get it?
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey Martin to quit banging my head against the cement and let me up so I can run away."
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,5:42 pm
(MADDOG @ Jul. 17 2013,5:05 pm)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,12:18 pm)
QUOTE
Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state.. Get it?
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey Martin to quit banging my head against the cement and let me up so I can run away."
The evidence clearly showed Zimmerman was doing the hunting, not Trayvon.. Zimmerman was planning this right down to his screams for help.. He thought he would be hailed as a hero for killing a trespassing burglar.. POW!! Backfire!!
I hope that sorry bastard lives the rest of his life in fear for his own life..
Stand Your Ground laws allow piss ants like Zimmerman the opportunity to legally kill by the use of provocation..
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 17 2013,6:14 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,5:42 pm)
QUOTE
(MADDOG @ Jul. 17 2013,5:05 pm)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,12:18 pm)
QUOTE
Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state.. Get it?
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey I don't want any trouble, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program, police have been called, have a nice evening".. Done..
"Hey Martin to quit banging my head against the cement and let me up so I can run away."
The evidence clearly showed Zimmerman was doing the hunting, not Trayvon.. Zimmerman was planning this right down to his screams for help.. He thought he would be hailed as a hero for killing a trespassing burglar.. POW!! Backfire!!
I hope that sorry bastard lives the rest of his life in fear for his own life..
Stand Your Ground laws allow piss ants like Zimmerman the opportunity to legally kill by the use of provocation..
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 17 2013,6:23 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,5:42 pm)
QUOTE
I hope that sorry bastard lives the rest of his life in fear for his own life..
Were you born this way or did someone bang your head against the cement when you were young?
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 17 2013,8:28 pm
LOL!!! So what your saying is you think nobody has a right to protect themselves? If someone broke into your house and was beating your wife, child, or even your head. You do not think you have a right to protect yourself??? You need to look at the law in Minnesota. You do have rights under law to protect yourself or others. I may also add the old saying, I would be rather be judged by a group of my peers then carried by that group. He was judged and is not guilty
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,9:00 pm
The Castle Doctrine law in Minnesota allows you to blow away someone breaking into your home or property that makes you fear for your life.. It doesn't allow you to go hunting for an unarmed kid innocently walking home from the store..You monkeys are still doing nothing but throwing a bunch of sh!t at each other..
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 17 2013,9:26 pm
It's a messed up state law, it allows an armed wimp to pick a fight and when they get their ass kicked they can pull out a weapon and legally kill the person they're fighting with.You can see why some on this forum would celebrate that sort of law.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,9:46 pm
Wimp=Monkey or Monkey=Wimp Its all the same..
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 17 2013,9:52 pm
Then it is no wonder that some clowns here have it in their heads that this should have been judged on a moral standard instead of a legal standard.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 17 2013,9:54 pm
Wow...alcitizen & liberal must not have watched any of the trial!! You two do understand not guilty..right?! The lefty channels can put any spin on it they want to, but it doesn't change the facts. The pundits love to spin...just remember it's only their opinion, typically pulled out of their arse to arouse emotion from the masses. There have been some pretty far-fetched, baseless accusations and comparisons made out of pure desperation on the part of some media.
Facts are facts...the prosecution weakened to public opinion at the onset of all this...Zimmerman never should have been charged.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 17 2013,9:54 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,9:46 pm)
QUOTE
Wimp=Monkey or Monkey=Wimp
Its all the same..
Its all the same..
It was funny once, let it die.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,10:34 pm
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Do you think Zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and hunt a kid if he didn't have a gun?
Answer: Wimp..
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 17 2013,10:39 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:34 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Do you think Zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and hunt a kid if he didn't have a gun?
Answer: Wimp..
He didn't hunt him down. Quit embellishing the narrative.
You sound like that idiot Tim at the tribune.
Going by your line of thinking, any police officer that follows someone must be hunting them down.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,10:57 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 17 2013,10:39 pm)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:34 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Do you think Zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and hunt a kid if he didn't have a gun?
Answer: Wimp..
He didn't hunt him down. Quit embellishing the narrative.
You sound like that idiot Tim at the tribune.
Going by your line of thinking, any police officer that follows someone must be hunting them down.
Do realize that you just said the most stupid thing I have ever heard you say?
If Zimmerman was a cop, Trayvon would still be alive..
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 17 2013,11:05 pm
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:57 pm)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 17 2013,10:39 pm)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:34 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Do you think Zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and hunt a kid if he didn't have a gun?
Answer: Wimp..
He didn't hunt him down. Quit embellishing the narrative.
You sound like that idiot Tim at the tribune.
Going by your line of thinking, any police officer that follows someone must be hunting them down.
Do realize that you just said the most stupid thing I have ever heard you say?
If Zimmerman was a cop, Trayvon would still be alive..
Wasn't stupid.
You are refusing to understand what YOU posted earlier.
Or is it because it is a police officer, a precious police officer.
Keeping an eye on someone is NOT hunting them down, you dolt.
And please provide proof that if Zimmerman was a police officer that Trayvon would still be alive. Must be nice living in fantasy land.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 17 2013,11:19 pm
Second most stupid thing I have ever heard you say..Because a law enforcement officer is different than being a hunter.. Ever heard of apples and oranges?
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 18 2013,3:22 am
(Liberal @ Jul. 17 2013,9:26 pm)
QUOTE
It's a messed up state law, it allows an armed wimp to pick a fight and when they get their ass kicked they can pull out a weapon and legally kill the person they're fighting with.
You can see why some on this forum would celebrate that sort of law.
You can see why some on this forum would celebrate that sort of law.
I think this sums up the essence of the objections to the verdict.
Zimmerman could have kept his distance, and phoned it in from there. He chose instead to get directly involved.
None of this is in dispute...
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 18 2013,6:42 am
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,10:34 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 17 2013,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ so Zimmerman should have allowed Treyvon to continue bashing his head on to the concrete? If we go by testimony, Treyvon was the aggressor, he was the one on top. I'm not saying Zimmerman was totally innocent but should he have risked great injury an d allowed trevon to continue?
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Also minn law says you must retreat if possible. Gov. Chickensh!t vetoed the expansion of the law last March.
Do you think Zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and hunt a kid if he didn't have a gun?
Answer: Wimp..
So you keep assuming that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle to "hunt" this kid, OK, let do some assuming on the other side.
Travon just came from the store ( weaving back and forth on the security cam) a little high, a bag of skittles for his munchies and a big can of ice tea for his cotton mouth. He's gonna do some scoping on the neighborhood to see if he can score some property to buy some more drugs(remember dumbass, we're assuming like you are
) he 's wandering through the neighborhood and a concerned citizen sees him, maybe looking a little to obvious checking out residences.George sees Travon being awfully suspicious and starts to follow him in his vehicle, gets to a point where he can't follow him with his vehicle so he gets out, and calls 911 to report a suspicious person walking through the neighborhood. The 911 dispatcher listens to George and tells his not to follow, so as I understood the testimony heads back to his vehicle.
Travon sees George and acting like a typical 17 year old, decides he's going to try to scare George off. There's a confrontation, Travon punches George in the nose, breaking it (I don't know if you've ever had you nose broke but I can assure you it hurts like hell and all you can see for a few seconds is red) George falls to the ground, Travon jumps on top and sometime during this tells George "you're gonna die tonight" The struggle ensues and George's head is getting slammed into the sidewalk, George is scared out his mind, feels Travon reaching for his KelTec in his waist band reaches himself and comes up with the weapon and pulls the trigger, one shot center mass. (This might be a show of restraint since a lot of the shooting I hear of tell of magazines being mt'd)
But since neither of us were there all we have is the physical evidence which seems to support George's story.
Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 18 2013,7:55 am
What authority does Zimmerman have to approach Martin? I sure don’t want some self appointed neighborhood watch person infringing on my right to walk to the store.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 18 2013,8:33 am
^ I could walk up to you in my neighborhood and ask you what you're doing here, you can tell me to FO but I might just call the cops on you if you do, they'll get an answer.
Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 18 2013,8:55 am
^If I’m walking from point A to point B on a public sidewalk it’s none of your business! What I’m saying here is you’dhave no authority to approach, question or detain me, you have every right to call the police, but that’s it.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 18 2013,10:01 am
If I were to deem you suspicious I would ask WTF are you doing here? You could ignore me, do whatever you want, your response to me would be an indicator.In my neighborhood we look out for each other and our properties.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 18 2013,11:57 am
Did Trayvon confine his activities to the sidewalk, or was he walking through peoples' yards? There's a big difference.
Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 18 2013,1:51 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 18 2013,11:57 am)
QUOTE
Did Trayvon confine his activities to the sidewalk, or was he walking through peoples' yards? There's a big difference.
I have no knowledge of Martin and was using myself as an example, the response I got from the typical redneck with a gun in his pocket (SB)) was confrontational.
There’s a large difference between Zimmerman and the Gear jammer, if SB stuck his gun in his waistband he’d have a heck of time getting it out!
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 18 2013,2:12 pm
...and Expat would be lucky to find his
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 18 2013,2:14 pm
^Do you suppose the tub in the above picture will pay for the inevitable Rascal-type scooter, or will that be on Uncle Sam's tab? But I digress...
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 18 2013,2:16 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 18 2013,2:14 pm)
QUOTE
^Do you suppose the tub in the above picture will pay for the inevitable Rascal-type scooter, or will that be on Uncle Sam's tab?
But I digress...
But I digress...
How the hell does he get behind the wheel?
Posted by Memphis on Jul. 19 2013,11:18 am
In New York from January to June 2008, 83 percent of all gun assailants were black, according to witnesses and victims, though blacks were only 24 percent of the population. Blacks and Hispanics together accounted for 98 percent of all gun assailants. Forty-nine of every 50 muggings and murders in the Big Apple were the work of black or Hispanic criminalsI like numbers...
Posted by This is my real name on Jul. 19 2013,11:43 am
(Self-Banished @ Jul. 18 2013,2:16 pm)
QUOTE
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 18 2013,2:14 pm)
QUOTE
^Do you suppose the tub in the above picture will pay for the inevitable Rascal-type scooter, or will that be on Uncle Sam's tab?
But I digress...
But I digress...
How the hell does he get behind the wheel?
Tilt steering.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 19 2013,11:54 am
^ I don't think they tilt that much.
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 20 2013,10:52 am
"Travon Martin could have been me-35 years ago."Wow, think of the possibilities.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 21 2013,6:24 am
^ Yeah, I heard that one too, many thoughts crossed my mind, wishful thinking I guess. 
Posted by Marneman on Jul. 21 2013,7:59 am
(alcitizens @ Jul. 17 2013,5:42 pm)
QUOTE
The evidence clearly showed Zimmerman was doing the hunting, not Trayvon.. Zimmerman was planning this right down to his screams for help.. He thought he would be hailed as a hero for killing a trespassing burglar.. POW!! Backfire!!
I hope that sorry bastard lives the rest of his life in fear for his own life..
Stand Your Ground laws allow piss ants like Zimmerman the opportunity to legally kill by the use of provocation..
I hope that sorry bastard lives the rest of his life in fear for his own life..
Stand Your Ground laws allow piss ants like Zimmerman the opportunity to legally kill by the use of provocation..
You have got to be kidding right!!?
I put that theroy right up there with the flat earthers, we faked the moon landing, and Hitler is still alive in Brazil!
You don't seriously want us to believe that Mr. Zimmerman delibertly set out to set up a situation so he could shoot someone?
Man get a grip!
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 24 2013,8:26 am
(Expatriate @ Jul. 18 2013,7:55 am)
QUOTE
What authority does Zimmerman? I sure don’t want some self appointed neighborhood watch person...
QUOTE
< George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding for Truck Crash Rescue >
George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.
By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.
I suppose all you alkis and hymies missed this one?
George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.
By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.
Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 24 2013,8:51 am
(MADDOG @ Jul. 24 2013,8:26 am)
QUOTE
(Expatriate @ Jul. 18 2013,7:55 am)
QUOTE
What authority does Zimmerman? I sure don’t want some self appointed neighborhood watch person...
"What authority does Zimmerman have to approach Martin? I sure don’t want some self appointed neighborhood watch person infringing on my right to walk to the store."
The above statement was my post not the modified version you posted. There's a big difference between helping someone on the highway vs harassing them on the sidewalk!
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 24 2013,8:52 am
^I thought that was pretty cool Especially with him probably wanting a low profile.
Meaning Georges selflessness
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 24 2013,9:30 am
Martin goes to the store to get Skittles and Arizona Watermelon Iced Tea. Hmm, who was supplying the Robitussin?
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 24 2013,10:33 am
^ oh yuck! 
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 24 2013,3:03 pm
add those three = lean or 'drank'QUOTE
< Skittles, Arizona Iced Tea, Robitussin = ‘Drank’ or ‘Lean’ >
Lean is a mixed drink originating in the Southern Rap culture. It is a mixture of Promethazine and Codeine cough syrup and a soft drink such as Sprite (usually). While other soft drinks may be used, Sprite was the original. [And now also Arizona Watermelon for Watermelon Drank/Lean]
There are some variations of Lean. For example, Promethazine and Codeine syrup is usually Purple in color. But there are other colors of syrup that work the same way. There is a golden-colored syrup (hydrocodone based) and other colors as well.
Lean slows you down. It makes you feel good. It’s meant to be sipped on, and it taste damn good. One of the best feelings you will ever experience. Euphoria with a hint of sedation. …”
Lean is also the drug mixture that killed Pimp C.
It appears Trayvon may have liked these zappers.
Lean is a mixed drink originating in the Southern Rap culture. It is a mixture of Promethazine and Codeine cough syrup and a soft drink such as Sprite (usually). While other soft drinks may be used, Sprite was the original. [And now also Arizona Watermelon for Watermelon Drank/Lean]
There are some variations of Lean. For example, Promethazine and Codeine syrup is usually Purple in color. But there are other colors of syrup that work the same way. There is a golden-colored syrup (hydrocodone based) and other colors as well.
Lean slows you down. It makes you feel good. It’s meant to be sipped on, and it taste damn good. One of the best feelings you will ever experience. Euphoria with a hint of sedation. …”
Lean is also the drug mixture that killed Pimp C.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 24 2013,3:36 pm
QUOTE
Rap culture
This term is what's known as an oxymoron.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 24 2013,6:42 pm
I see the royal couple named their baby after Zimmerman
Posted by hymiebravo on Jul. 28 2013,10:57 am
(MADDOG @ Jul. 24 2013,8:26 am)
QUOTE
(Expatriate @ Jul. 18 2013,7:55 am)
QUOTE
What authority does Zimmerman? I sure don’t want some self appointed neighborhood watch person...
QUOTE
< George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding for Truck Crash Rescue >
George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.
By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.
I suppose all you alkis and hymies missed this one?George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.
By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.
You're not gonna ever get to be a Freeborn County Commissioner acting like that.
BTW - I couldn't care less about this case. Haven't cared about it one iota from the start. Don't watch or read about it. I think it's funny how every once in a while the great people of the United States act like they care about what goes on in the ghetto.
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 02 2013,7:00 am
I want off of this planet. Now they want to place Trayvon Martin's "symbolic" hoodie into THE FREAKIN' SMITHSONIAN!< Trayvon Martin's Hoodie >
These hoodies will be flying off the shelf now. They'll probably come out with a special edition Trayvon Martin hoodie. And ironically, people will probably be killed for that hoodie - just like they are for Nikes and Chicago Bulls jackets.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 05 2013,5:14 pm
I guess you folks still grow 'em stupid down there, this letter from the fish wrapDo people without guns have defense?
Published 10:35am Thursday, August 1, 2013
Email Comments
Say you had a 16-year-old daughter. She was walking home from the drug store and a car was following her. Then a man jumps out of the car and starts following her on foot. She stops and turns around and kicks him in the crotch. He pulls out his gun and kills her. He then claims this is self-defense.
How would you feel? She had no weapon to protect herself.
Now George Zimmerman’s attorney is trying to restore his right to carry a firearm. If this isn’t a good example where background checks on people buying firearms is absolutely necessary, I don’t know what is. The jury must have been made up of bunch of Republicans to not find Zimmerman guilty of at least manslaughter. You heard how those Republicans claimed they should have a right to carry a firearm for their protection. Where was Trayvon Martin’s protection?
You have probably read how a gun dealer wants to speak nicety-nicety now after that crooked Republican Congress voted down that background checks bill. I will never understand when 90 percent of the public want background checks on firearms buyers and that bill got voted down. You have read where gun dealers are already supposed to get background checks on potential buyers. Every gun dealer knows all they have to do is tell the person to find a friend that will pass the check and they can buy the firearm. Firearms dealers will do anything to make a sale. If that background check bill would have passed I couldn’t sell a firearm legally to someone without a background check. It would be the same as selling liquor to a minor.
During the years that I owned the Antique Mall, I bought and sold several firearms. I feel lucky to say that I am sure none of these firearms were used for criminal activity, but I would definitely feel guilty if I had. I don’t blame the Average Joe for being upset and doing some name calling after the verdict on the Zimmerman/Martin case.
Wayne Thorson
Albert Lea
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 05 2013,5:24 pm
But then there is hope,Has race become creator of truth?
Published 9:20am Tuesday, July 30, 2013
Email Comments
Let me start by saying I’m a progressive Democrat and also that I’m white. Because I’m white, I will assume that I can now safely be called a racist.
Regardless, let me ask, who was really racially profiled in the Trayvon Martin case?
It’s strange that almost every opinion shared in the national media has vilified George Zimmerman as a cold-blooded murderer, but isn’t it true that if Zimmerman had been an African-American, there wouldn’t have been a trial?
The only thing Zimmerman did was walk to an area that would allow him to watch a stranger that he thought was acting suspiciously. Is there anyone reading this who hasn’t wanted to do that? I would go so far to say that many of us have actually done that very thing. Does that justify a vicious attack just because someone doesn’t like being watched?
Once Zimmerman was attacked, how many times (after his nose had already been broken) should he have been willing to allow his head to be smashed on the cement before he shot Martin? Four or five must not be enough, so how about 10? Twenty? Or would it have been politically correct if he had allowed Martin to kill him?
By any measure of the law, Zimmerman was defending himself. So why has he been vilified?
Everyone knows it was because he looked like a “cracker.”
Racial profiling is not a good thing. Most of us can agree on that.
Even though I honestly doubt Zimmerman would have acted differently if Martin had been white, let’s assume he was actually racially profiling Martin. Does that actually mean that his ability to protect himself has been revoked?
The national media is performing lip service. They’re destroying Zimmerman not because he was a racist but because they are terrified to consider saying that Zimmerman was innocent of the charges against him. Face it, they’re just placating African-Americans.
As long as the national press and some African-American citizens make race the creator of truth in situations like this, their cause is damaged. They accept the placation and are encouraged to believe a lie is the truth.
How can that be good for any of us, black, white, Hispanic or whatever the cracker of the day is?
The killing of Trayvon Martin will remain another division of the races for as long as we are willing to placate and be placated.
Bill Smith
Bricelyn
Email Comments
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Aug. 06 2013,8:49 am
Wayne's mindless diatribe is based on nothing but a strawman argument and what ifs and he sticks to the emotional playbook to the tee.
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 06 2013,9:08 am
(Grinning_Dragon @ Aug. 06 2013,8:49 am)
QUOTE
Wayne's mindless diatribe is based on nothing but a strawman argument and what ifs and he sticks to the emotional playbook to the tee.
I think he likes the feedback he receives from his friends. In some of his letters he mentions how many people tell him they liked what he wrote.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 06 2013,10:14 am
(This is my real name @ Aug. 06 2013,9:08 am)
QUOTE
(Grinning_Dragon @ Aug. 06 2013,8:49 am)
QUOTE
Wayne's mindless diatribe is based on nothing but a strawman argument and what ifs and he sticks to the emotional playbook to the tee.
I think he likes the feedback he receives from his friends. In some of his letters he mentions how many people tell him they liked what he wrote.
Self gratification, there's another phrase for that, now what could the be...?
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Aug. 06 2013,12:36 pm
Oh, Jesus. The amount of emotionalism is just dripping in this piece. Full of hearsay arguments and logic fallacies and Patti is completely ignorant of both Florida State law (also the fact that this wasn't a SYG trial) and an accused person's Constitutional Rights. I guess Patti never got the memo, a persons Rights trumps feelings.I can almost hear violins playing, when I read this tear jerker.
QUOTE
I was sickened by recent omissions by conservatives about the George Zimmerman trial, or should I say, the Trayvon Martin trial. I was appalled at how defense attorneys tried the dead boy to get the 28-year-old man acquitted. Zimmerman bested Martin by about 50 pounds, despite the fact that Trayvon was taller. Zimmerman has a history of violence, which of course couldn’t be brought up in trial. Zimmerman has been accused or charged with domestic assault, accused of assaulting a police officer in a bar dispute and accused of pedophilia of his cousin, all of which were either he said/she said or pleaded out.
But the defense had no problem bringing in previous childish bad behavior of the young dead boy. Trayvon was accused of, among other things, getting suspended from school, where he had a 3.87 GPA and had been accepted to a college, for marijuana residue in his backpack. Marijuana, really? More states are joining a chorus of states that have either legalized small amounts or medical marijuana. Who among us can step forward to say that they never committed any foolish acts as a teen or young adult? Adulthood by law is 18, but the brain isn’t fully formed until 21; that makes George Zimmerman, age 28, far more capable of using good judgment in an escalating situation. Trayvon was visiting his father. Zimmerman lived in the complex and told police he was looking for an address which was on a post behind him. No bushes were where Zimmerman said Trayvon jumped out of at him.
George Zimmerman was the aggressor; he was in his car, spotted Trayvon and called 911, at which time he was heard referring to those “punks getting away” with very creepy descriptions. When the 911 dispatcher asked where he was, Zimmerman answered that he was following Trayvon, at which point the dispatcher told him not to. Zimmerman then followed Trayvon to where they got into a fight and Zimmerman reached to his back hip, pulled out gun hidden by two layers of shirt/jacket, and fired and killed Trayvon. In most cases, that would be considered manslaughter if not murder. Florida, however, has Stand Your Ground laws that legalize the killing of human beings by other human beings who have malice in their hearts. When Minnesota Republicans were in power, they tried to pass SYG laws but Gov. Mark Dayton vetoed it. Thank you, Gov. Dayton.
We do not need a wild, wild, West in America. Too many guns in a civilized society can only exacerbate the kinds of events that occurred in Sanford, Fla., Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., and many other places. The victims in these places were innocents who were gunned down by people who had no concern for human life. If they had, all those victims would be alive today to carry out their lives, whether it be getting married and having children, going to college or whatever. Stop the scourge of too many guns and not enough responsible gun owners.
Patti Kimble
Emmons
But the defense had no problem bringing in previous childish bad behavior of the young dead boy. Trayvon was accused of, among other things, getting suspended from school, where he had a 3.87 GPA and had been accepted to a college, for marijuana residue in his backpack. Marijuana, really? More states are joining a chorus of states that have either legalized small amounts or medical marijuana. Who among us can step forward to say that they never committed any foolish acts as a teen or young adult? Adulthood by law is 18, but the brain isn’t fully formed until 21; that makes George Zimmerman, age 28, far more capable of using good judgment in an escalating situation. Trayvon was visiting his father. Zimmerman lived in the complex and told police he was looking for an address which was on a post behind him. No bushes were where Zimmerman said Trayvon jumped out of at him.
George Zimmerman was the aggressor; he was in his car, spotted Trayvon and called 911, at which time he was heard referring to those “punks getting away” with very creepy descriptions. When the 911 dispatcher asked where he was, Zimmerman answered that he was following Trayvon, at which point the dispatcher told him not to. Zimmerman then followed Trayvon to where they got into a fight and Zimmerman reached to his back hip, pulled out gun hidden by two layers of shirt/jacket, and fired and killed Trayvon. In most cases, that would be considered manslaughter if not murder. Florida, however, has Stand Your Ground laws that legalize the killing of human beings by other human beings who have malice in their hearts. When Minnesota Republicans were in power, they tried to pass SYG laws but Gov. Mark Dayton vetoed it. Thank you, Gov. Dayton.
We do not need a wild, wild, West in America. Too many guns in a civilized society can only exacerbate the kinds of events that occurred in Sanford, Fla., Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., and many other places. The victims in these places were innocents who were gunned down by people who had no concern for human life. If they had, all those victims would be alive today to carry out their lives, whether it be getting married and having children, going to college or whatever. Stop the scourge of too many guns and not enough responsible gun owners.
Patti Kimble
Emmons
I could and sit an pick this apart, but why bother, their minds are made up for them by morons like sissy mathews, etc. et al.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 06 2013,2:51 pm
Patty Kimball is as liberal, left-tilted as they come. Always have found her letters meaningless and pointless and without facts or merit. She's a definite emotion writer. Patty Kimball is very misinformed on most subjects and always tries to put her own 'spin' on the regurgitated material she's spoon fed from the left-tilted media. Proof of it is in the letter just posted!!!
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 07 2013,7:30 am
What facts do you folks have a problem with? Some conservatives think he had to die based on his dope using, hoodie wearing lifestyle. It's not about race, it's the dope using, hoodie wearing lifestyle that sealed Trayvon Martin's fate. Here are some other FACTS, since Santorini, G.D., and Self-Banished all think the libs don't have the facts right.
1. Zimmerman chases a guy he claims is "suspicious". Note: For the people that call 911 A LOT, suspicious is code-word for profiling. Suspicious means you're young and/or dark and you're in the wrong area. Clearly "up to no good" in the words of Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman fears that "these assholes always get away". He's heard huffing and puffing before he kills Trayvon Martin.
3. Trayvon Martin did not "get away", even though he was trying to.
4. He's told "we don't need you to do that", referring to following Trayvon while Martin is trying to get away. And I'll agree that he's not ordered to follow that advice. He wasn't charged with following the guy, killing the guy he followed is when it generally is seen as bad.
Here's some other important facts the press has been glued to.
1. Trayvon Martin may have used marijuana at one point in his life.
2. Trayvon Martin was suspended from school.
3. He was dressed in a way people have a problem with.
Combining the fact of how Martin used marijuana and was suspended at some point, and the way he was dressed. He was in the wrong neighborhood apparently. When you put it all together some in the NRA think that Trayvon Martin deserved to die.
I totally agree with the individual right to own and carry a gun. Where the gun lobby does a disservice to us all is thinking a CCW gives them some kind of 007 license to kill AFTER they start the conflict themselves. If they don't have to try to walk away before they pull the gun and shoot, we're all left in a more dangerous situation.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Aug. 07 2013,8:45 am
\yawn...
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 07 2013,6:42 pm
(irisheyes @ Aug. 07 2013,7:30 am)
QUOTE
What facts do you folks have a problem with? Some conservatives think he had to die based on his dope using, hoodie wearing lifestyle. It's not about race, it's the dope using, hoodie wearing lifestyle that sealed Trayvon Martin's fate.
Here are some other FACTS, since Santorini, G.D., and Self-Banished all think the libs don't have the facts right.
1. Zimmerman chases a guy he claims is "suspicious". Note: For the people that call 911 A LOT, suspicious is code-word for profiling. Suspicious means you're young and/or dark and you're in the wrong area. Clearly "up to no good" in the words of Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman fears that "these assholes always get away". He's heard huffing and puffing before he kills Trayvon Martin.
3. Trayvon Martin did not "get away", even though he was trying to.
4. He's told "we don't need you to do that", referring to following Trayvon while Martin is trying to get away. And I'll agree that he's not ordered to follow that advice. He wasn't charged with following the guy, killing the guy he followed is when it generally is seen as bad.
Here's some other important facts the press has been glued to.
1. Trayvon Martin may have used marijuana at one point in his life.
2. Trayvon Martin was suspended from school.
3. He was dressed in a way people have a problem with.
Combining the fact of how Martin used marijuana and was suspended at some point, and the way he was dressed. He was in the wrong neighborhood apparently. When you put it all together some in the NRA think that Trayvon Martin deserved to die.
I totally agree with the individual right to own and carry a gun. Where the gun lobby does a disservice to us all is thinking a CCW gives them some kind of 007 license to kill AFTER they start the conflict themselves. If they don't have to try to walk away before they pull the gun and shoot, we're all left in a more dangerous situation.
Here are some other FACTS, since Santorini, G.D., and Self-Banished all think the libs don't have the facts right.
1. Zimmerman chases a guy he claims is "suspicious". Note: For the people that call 911 A LOT, suspicious is code-word for profiling. Suspicious means you're young and/or dark and you're in the wrong area. Clearly "up to no good" in the words of Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman fears that "these assholes always get away". He's heard huffing and puffing before he kills Trayvon Martin.
3. Trayvon Martin did not "get away", even though he was trying to.
4. He's told "we don't need you to do that", referring to following Trayvon while Martin is trying to get away. And I'll agree that he's not ordered to follow that advice. He wasn't charged with following the guy, killing the guy he followed is when it generally is seen as bad.
Here's some other important facts the press has been glued to.
1. Trayvon Martin may have used marijuana at one point in his life.
2. Trayvon Martin was suspended from school.
3. He was dressed in a way people have a problem with.
Combining the fact of how Martin used marijuana and was suspended at some point, and the way he was dressed. He was in the wrong neighborhood apparently. When you put it all together some in the NRA think that Trayvon Martin deserved to die.
I totally agree with the individual right to own and carry a gun. Where the gun lobby does a disservice to us all is thinking a CCW gives them some kind of 007 license to kill AFTER they start the conflict themselves. If they don't have to try to walk away before they pull the gun and shoot, we're all left in a more dangerous situation.
Wow, you sure have a lotta facts, you must have been there
. What you're using as facts are testimony, some of it from Zimmerman, some of it from neighbors. Treyvons father said it was his son screaming, Zimmerman's parents say it was their son. One neighbor says it looked like Treyvon on top wailing of Zimmerman, one said it looked like it was the other way around.Point is there was reasonable doubt and the is the basis for finding guilt in this country(are you getting this?)You weren't there, the press(as much as they would like to put there conjecture on the event) wasn't there. Al Sharpton wasn't there to make a judgement,POOKIE THE MAGIC F#%ING BEAR WAS NOT THERE, IS THERE A GLIMMER OF INTELLIGENCE SEEPING THROUGH!?
The probable chain of events that happened that night were the hall monitor(Zimmerman) decided to play cop, Trayvon didn't like it, overreacted and started pounding on Zimmerman. Drugs be damned, they did or didn't play a part in it. Zimmerman, being on the bottom most likely had his nose broke and getting the back of his head bashed into the concrete.
Was this life threatening? Maybe, maybe not, none of us were there. I know that if this was happening to me this thought might cross my mind. If Trevonhad killed Zimmerman we wouldn't have heard squat about this.
All this was a vehicle for gun control, they didn't get enough traction from Sandy Hook so this was the next step, there was no SYG, no racial crap, just a case of self defense that should have never went to court.
As another poster on here so eloquently says, "'nuff said"
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 08 2013,5:19 pm
I saw this last night, now if we want to talk about chicken-sh!t human beings these take the grand prize. 
not a word from the so called "real news" outlets. From what I understand the kid being beat had refused drugs from the three cowards.< http://www.foxnews.com/us...-rights >
Posted by Memphis on Aug. 08 2013,6:51 pm
He was found NOT GUILTY by the best system in the world, a system for which men and women have died for to protect. Respect those men and women, and the system and move the hell on!
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 11 2013,8:31 pm
So was O.J.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 12 2013,5:06 am
^ damn nice point.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 13 2013,11:40 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 08 2013,5:19 pm)
QUOTE
I saw this last night, now if we want to talk about chicken-sh!t human beings these take the grand prize. not a word from the so called "real news" outlets. From what I understand the kid being beat had refused drugs from the three cowards.
< http://www.foxnews.com/us...-rights >
not a word from the so called "real news" outlets. From what I understand the kid being beat had refused drugs from the three cowards.< http://www.foxnews.com/us...-rights >
I know!! That was tough to watch.
Amazing, Jackson Sharpton Obama Holder have nothing to say ...where are ya guys?
Can't speak up on behalf of a defenseless white kid?
Jackson Sharpton Obama Holder the media should be ashamed of themselves (and indicted) for inciting such race-hatred
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 13 2013,11:49 pm
(Liberal @ Aug. 11 2013,8:31 pm)
QUOTE
So was O.J.
Yea..and now that he was granted parole on 5 counts he'll be out in 4 yrs.
Now 'they' can go find the 'real killer'!
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 17 2013,9:03 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 07 2013,6:42 pm)
QUOTE
Wow, you sure have a lotta facts, you must have been there . What you're using as facts are testimony, some of it from Zimmerman, some of it from neighbors. Treyvons father said it was his son screaming, Zimmerman's parents say it was their son. One neighbor says it looked like Treyvon on top wailing of Zimmerman, one said it looked like it was the other way around... You weren't there, the press(as much as they would like to put there conjecture on the event) wasn't there. Al Sharpton wasn't there to make a judgement,POOKIE THE MAGIC F#%ING BEAR WAS NOT THERE, IS THERE A GLIMMER OF INTELLIGENCE SEEPING THROUGH!?
. What you're using as facts are testimony, some of it from Zimmerman, some of it from neighbors. Treyvons father said it was his son screaming, Zimmerman's parents say it was their son. One neighbor says it looked like Treyvon on top wailing of Zimmerman, one said it looked like it was the other way around... You weren't there, the press(as much as they would like to put there conjecture on the event) wasn't there. Al Sharpton wasn't there to make a judgement,POOKIE THE MAGIC F#%ING BEAR WAS NOT THERE, IS THERE A GLIMMER OF INTELLIGENCE SEEPING THROUGH!?Nicely played, I guess we should just rely on the word of the accused from now on. I mean, the deceased can't say because Zimmerman killed him, we can't say, Pookie the magic bear wasn't there. So if a guy with the bloody axe and motive says it was an accident, self-defense, or points elsewhere and blames it on the media we can just take their word for it from now on.
I wonder how many of you same guys defending Zimmerman said things like this after the OJ verdict. "Well, we weren't there, so we'll take OJ's word for it. The justice system did what it was supposed to, we should respect that."
QUOTE
The probable chain of events that happened that night were the hall monitor(Zimmerman) decided to play cop, Trayvon didn't like it, overreacted and started pounding on Zimmerman. Drugs be damned, they did or didn't play a part in it. Zimmerman, being on the bottom most likely had his nose broke and getting the back of his head bashed into the concrete.
But you weren't there. You shouldn't say unless Pookie the magic bear told you.
Which way do you want it, you spent two paragraphs mocking me for taking a side on the evidence (Zimmerman's own words and the fact he killed someone), then get your own probable scenario.
QUOTE
there was no SYG
Except for the law, the jury instructions, and the training of Zimmerman himself in SYG.
So yeah, except for all those things Stand your ground wasn't relevant in this case.
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 17 2013,9:12 pm
(Memphis @ Aug. 08 2013,6:51 pm)
QUOTE
He was found NOT GUILTY by the best system in the world, a system for which men and women have died for to protect. Respect those men and women, and the system and move the hell on!
Which war are you referring to, Memphis? Was Saddam and his nonexistant WMD's threatening our Judicial system? The 38th parellel line of Korea? How about the boiler accident on the USS Maine, was that a threat to our Judicial system?
People don't die to protect jury trials. The wars above were about imperialism and economics.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 18 2013,6:39 pm
(irisheyes @ Aug. 17 2013,9:03 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 07 2013,6:42 pm)
QUOTE
Wow, you sure have a lotta facts, you must have been there . What you're using as facts are testimony, some of it from Zimmerman, some of it from neighbors. Treyvons father said it was his son screaming, Zimmerman's parents say it was their son. One neighbor says it looked like Treyvon on top wailing of Zimmerman, one said it looked like it was the other way around... You weren't there, the press(as much as they would like to put there conjecture on the event) wasn't there. Al Sharpton wasn't there to make a judgement,POOKIE THE MAGIC F#%ING BEAR WAS NOT THERE, IS THERE A GLIMMER OF INTELLIGENCE SEEPING THROUGH!?
. What you're using as facts are testimony, some of it from Zimmerman, some of it from neighbors. Treyvons father said it was his son screaming, Zimmerman's parents say it was their son. One neighbor says it looked like Treyvon on top wailing of Zimmerman, one said it looked like it was the other way around... You weren't there, the press(as much as they would like to put there conjecture on the event) wasn't there. Al Sharpton wasn't there to make a judgement,POOKIE THE MAGIC F#%ING BEAR WAS NOT THERE, IS THERE A GLIMMER OF INTELLIGENCE SEEPING THROUGH!?Nicely played, I guess we should just rely on the word of the accused from now on. I mean, the deceased can't say because Zimmerman killed him, we can't say, Pookie the magic bear wasn't there. So if a guy with the bloody axe and motive says it was an accident, self-defense, or points elsewhere and blames it on the media we can just take their word for it from now on.
I wonder how many of you same guys defending Zimmerman said things like this after the OJ verdict. "Well, we weren't there, so we'll take OJ's word for it. The justice system did what it was supposed to, we should respect that."
QUOTE
The probable chain of events that happened that night were the hall monitor(Zimmerman) decided to play cop, Trayvon didn't like it, overreacted and started pounding on Zimmerman. Drugs be damned, they did or didn't play a part in it. Zimmerman, being on the bottom most likely had his nose broke and getting the back of his head bashed into the concrete.
But you weren't there. You shouldn't say unless Pookie the magic bear told you.
Which way do you want it, you spent two paragraphs mocking me for taking a side on the evidence (Zimmerman's own words and the fact he killed someone), then get your own probable scenario.
QUOTE
there was no SYG
Except for the law, the jury instructions, and the training of Zimmerman himself in SYG.
So yeah, except for all those things Stand your ground wasn't relevant in this case.
So what you're saying is that we're all guilty until proven innocent, ' don't work that way buttercup.
SYG was not being implied there, as Zimmerman testified he was in fear of losing his life. Zimmerman did kill Martin, he didn't deny this. Martin's hoodie had point blank powder burns on it but not on the mortal wound he received thus indicating Martin was on top.
Sometimes it's fun to watch someone being baited, manipulated,just plain being lead around by their nose,this time it was't, this is one of those times where the powers that be (political, religious, etc.) were trying to play the sheep in the public and get them to act accordingly.
Don't feel bad Irish, just beware of farmers with tall rubber boots.
Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 18 2013,10:09 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 18 2013,6:39 pm)
QUOTE
beware of farmers with tall rubber boots.
