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| Post Number: 61
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Grinning_Dragon 
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jul. 09 2013,2:28 pm |
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(Botto 82 @ Jul. 09 2013,2:13 pm)
QUOTE I would expect the same out of you, had I posted something from a site such as naacp.com or somesuch, defending Trayvon's actions.
I have no bias in this case. I'm betting that doesn't quite ring true for the ammoland.com folks, as I'm pretty sure that they have a horse in this race, namely Zimmermann being not guilty of any wrongdoing.
The difference is that I do read and process what is being said before I dismiss it. I don't care what site it is posted on, but I can smell BS a galaxy away. I read stuff on huffpo, slate and other left leaning sites, while I have to choke back the bile that seems to coat my throat at times when reading such drivel and get to the meat of the article. Usually when an article starts out with touchy feely, kumbaya BS, I know it isn't going to be very logical and is written to draw upon emotions instead of cold heartless facts.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 62
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Botto 82
Group: Members
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Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: Jul. 09 2013,2:56 pm |
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All reporting will have some bias to it. Even as far as this forum goes, almost everyone cherry-picks media that support their positions. In the end, the side with the most money and the biggest legal department usually wins anyway.
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 63
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| Post Number: 64
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
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Joined: May 2011
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Posted on: Jul. 10 2013,3:58 am |
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I'm using your article for this
Myth #1:
Nobody here in the forum has ever mentioned anything about that.
Myth #2:
Nobody here in the forum has ever said a person has to follow a 911 order. It's been pointed out that through neighborhood watch training and through the classes he had taken that if they see someone suspicious it is stressed to not go after the person yourself but to call police and let them handle it. Was he trying to get an address or was he following Trayvon when he got out of his vehicle? When 911 asked if he was following him he said yes. That night he told the police that 911 had asked for an exact address (not true) and that he was looking for one when he was attacked.
Myth #3:
By the legal definition given for stalking, yes Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon:
QUOTE (a)“Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b)“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose.
-Look at a map or watch the entire re-enactment from the next day. Zimmerman followed him for a long way in his vehicle. -But Trayvon is dead, so we won't know if it "caused substantial emotional distress" to him. - I think it would for most people.
Myth #4:
People in favor of Zimmerman seem to think he was the only one who deserved to use self-defense.
Myth #5:
Same explanation as for #4.
Myth #6:
It's Zimmerman's word against a dead kid's.
This part of Myth #6 is BS:
QUOTE there is more evidence to suggest that Mr. Martin actually initiated two confrontations. One when he walked around Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and two when he said, “Why you following me?”
Zimmerman never told 911 that Trayvon circled his car. He said: "He's looking at me. He's coming to check me out." - Maybe Trayvon just wanted to get a look who was following him? - Myth #6 makes it sound like asking a person why they are following you is worse than someone actually following you. Trayvon didn't know why Zimmerman was following him, he could have done something to Zimmerman at his car-he didn't. He could have tried to get home-and risk an unknown person following him there and endangering anyone else in the home.
Myth #7:
Again, we only have Zimmerman's version of events. More than one Zimmerman version. Scenario #2 from this myth leaves out at least one possibility. Maybe when Zimmerman "Went to go grab my cell phone, but I had left it in a different pocket. I looked down at my pants pocket, and he said 'You got a problem now'....
My guess is that's when Trayvon saw the gun. Why was Zimmerman even talking about forgetting which pocket his cell phone was in during the police re-enactment. I happen to think Zimmerman either grabbed the gun at that moment, or he was just letting Trayvon see that he had a gun. Maybe Trayvon was the one screaming bloody murder that whole time and trying to keep from getting shot.- My scenario isn't cold hard facts, but neither is the rest of your article.
Myth #8:
Nobody in the forum has mentioned anything to do with #8.
Zimmerman also said in that first police interview that he was walking back to his vehicle when Trayvon "jumped out of the bushes" and attacked him.- That story changed the next day during the police re-enactment. (There were no bushes to back up that story.)
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And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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| Post Number: 65
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
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Posted on: Jul. 10 2013,5:29 pm |
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Rosalind- stop, just stop with the "Im not trying to be the Bword" I know you are not trying to be, no worries here the thought never crossed my mind. 
As I have said before, this trial is a trial that should have NEVER been. The whole thing is nothing more than a racially motivated witch hunt and now it seems the DOJ facilitated the anti Zimmerman protests.
DOJ or the lack of a dept of justice
The whole trial is nothing more than a waste of taxpayers dollars.
An expert witness tears apart the so called testimony of the other experts witnesses, ie, the M.E and the other idiot.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 66
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jul. 10 2013,7:58 pm |
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I don't think it was a witch hunt. The lead investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter that night, but was pressured from the top not to.
Zimmerman told three different stories about what led up to the confrontation in less than 24 hours.- I should think that alone is enough to warrant more of an investigation in the very least.
About that CBS news link. Like I said, for anyone to have a better understanding about what happened you can't listen to the news. The only way is to watch and listen to unedited court testimony, and read documents/interviews from the first couple of days after the shooting.
From the link:
QUOTE Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with having his head hit against concrete more than once, Di Maio said. The former neighborhood watch captain said the teen smashed his head into a sidewalk several times before he claimed he acted in self-defense.
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QUOTE Di Maio also said it's possible to receive trauma without visible wounds. "You can get severe trauma to the head without external injuries, actually," Di Maio said.
^Too bad Zimmerman didn't go see a doctor that night or the next day at least. More information would be nice. I did see that guy's testimony. He could only account for 6 different spots on Zimmerman's head/face. He said they could be the result of 6 different blows.
Zimmerman had two small cuts on the back of his head. One was almost 1 inch long, the other was almost 1/4 inch long. He pointed to markings he called (sorry if I get this word wrong) punctate marks. One on either side of his forehead which he said most likely came from being in contact with concrete. Either slammed or just pushed down on. While I was watching his testimony and he was pointing to the picture I couldn't figure out how his head could be bent at such an angle to make either of those marks if he was laying on his back and his head was being slammed down.
According to the autopsy testimony the only injuries Trayvon had other than the bullet wound, was a 1/4 inch X 1/8 inch abrasion (wasn't even bad enough to bleed) on his left hand, and 2 more abrasions on his left hand which were less than 1/16 inch.
I really don't believe Zimmerman's story at all. None of his stories.
About your link on the DOJ. I really really can't stand Al Sharpton. I'd like to know to what extent the CRS was involved. I'm assuming they became involved AFTER the protests had already begun. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that information.
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And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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| Post Number: 67
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jul. 11 2013,8:40 am |
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Not a witch-hunt eh?
QUOTE The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
Yep, justice is served when it is placated to a mob. 
QUOTE When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
Self-defense is self-defense, it matters not if the assailant was armed or not.
QUOTE It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
It is a sad day in America, when mob pressure is placated to and violates Liberty and justice.
I say again, this is a trial that should never have been, the voice of a mob should have been a moot point and dismissed, America is NOT a democracy.
The rest here.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 68
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jul. 11 2013,4:45 pm |
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Or, maybe he should have charged Zimmerman with manslaughter like the Lead Investigator wanted to. The Lead Investigator felt there was enough evidence to charge him.
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And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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| Post Number: 69
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 11 2013,5:41 pm |
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Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 70
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
Posts: 1527
Joined: May 2011
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Posted on: Jul. 11 2013,6:15 pm |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 11 2013,8:40 am)
QUOTE Not a witch-hunt eh? QUOTE The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that." Yep, justice is served when it is placated to a mob. QUOTE When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense. Self-defense is self-defense, it matters not if the assailant was armed or not. QUOTE It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath." It is a sad day in America, when mob pressure is placated to and violates Liberty and justice. I say again, this is a trial that should never have been, the voice of a mob should have been a moot point and dismissed, America is NOT a democracy. The rest here.
Quotes from Ex police chief in your article:
QUOTE Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
QUOTE "That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.
From a year ago:
QUOTE But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/US...6011674
Sounds to me like there's just a whole lot of people trying to cover their butts. On the third day after the shooting, Serino put together all of Zimmerman's conflicting comments, from the 911 call, the police re-enactment, and all police/Zimmerman interviews done up until that point. Serino and the other investigator grilled him big time on all the conflicting information and all he'd say to every question: "I don't know" " I don't remember"
I would think that since there was only one person who knew what happened that night and he kept telling different stories and nothing added up... there might be reason to do more investigating or charge him with something.
GD:
QUOTE Why is the judge moving the goal posts in this trial.
He was charged with 2nd degree, the only thing a jury needs to decide is yes or no on 2nd degree. The jury needs to nullify the judges order of including manslaughter.
It's strange that they didn't include manslaughter from the beginning. Could they have done that? I don't know how this sort of thing works. I'm assuming it would be kind of bad for the state attorney if Zimmerman does get convicted. He's already looking pretty bad to people who are paying attention to the trial.
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And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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