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| Post Number: 31
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DrBombay 
Group: Members
Posts: 1606
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2005,9:19 am |
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| Quote | I checked with our County insurance--no county brought into litigation had lost the case because of rumble strips as of the date I inquired.
Walter Wangen is a former County Commissioner for District 2. He came upon an accident years ago resulting in death when there were no rumble strips and spoke for rumble strips. The most recent death was at the same intersection after the rumble strips had been removed. |
I wonder how many counties brought into litigation had actually removed Rumble strips at intersections that had previously been deemed a hazard because of a fatality.
If I found out that a loved one of mine had been injured or killed at an intersection that previously had Rumble strips because of a fatality and the county had taken them out I'd find a lawyer that would sue the county for everything it was worth. It seems to me in a case like this the county's asking to be sued......and rightly so.
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| Post Number: 32
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ICU812
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3244
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,11:18 am |
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| Quote | Rumble strips will be phased out on county roads
By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer
After several years of research and discussion, the Freeborn County board approved phasing out the use of rumble strips because of the cost.
Rumble strips are sections of road, ground by machines to create a rough sensation for occupants when cars drive over them. They are placed before intersections where vehicles are required to stop as a warning for drivers who may be impaired or are unaware of the need to stop.
Since the state has not regulated the use of rumble strips, counties have to develop and approve their own policies.
The policy notes that in lane rumble strips have been "inconsistently installed at various intersections and locations throughout the county." Research by the commissioners and County Engineer Sue Miller has found the effectiveness of in lane rumble strips "as an effective crash countermeasure, are inconclusive."
Commissioner Dan Belshan presented data from the Minnesota Local Road Research Board that showed positive results with rumble strips. Two neighboring communities, Mankato and Rochester, also implement rumble strips on certain occasions, he said.
"Where it shows a problem, we can install them where they're needed," he said.
But, because of funding issues installing rumble strips wherever they're needed could be more costly than it's worth, according to some of the commissioners.
"If we're going to replace or install (rumble strips) at all the major intersections, it would be quite a large investment," said Commissioner Glen Mathiason.
There is also the problem of consistency. Rumble strips are currently installed at over 30 locations in the county. In order to avoid lawsuits due to liability issues, the rumble strips would have to be installed and kept in good condition at 146 locations.
According to an estimate, each rumble strip would cost $500 every three to five years to maintain.
The board voted 3-2 to approve the policy, with Commissioners Belshan and Jim Nelson dissenting.
"We should be replacing those rumble strips where they've been taken out," Belshan said.
Though rumble strips may eventually be obsolete in the county, other traffic control devices will be installed, such as oversized stop signs with reflective strips. |
Next traffic death occuring at an intersection that stops one way and HAD or needed rumble strips give Sue "our county" Miller and the commisioners not highlighted in red above a call and say thanks
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| Post Number: 33
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,3:49 pm |
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And it WILL happen!
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 34
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,4:16 pm |
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I can't believe that our highway engineer would/could put the possibilty of human lives in jepordy over something that would cost the county $500 every few years. (and I question the cost)
Sue Miller, what exactly is the price of a human live? I mean, in fog or snow storm, where would you know where to stop if you were on an unknown county road and weren't sure where where you were at?
I do realize that 3 commissioners are just taking your advise, but if Belshan hadn't pushed for more rumble strips, you might have kept them.
I used to respect you, but that's gone now.
May the next death be on your shoulders.
Perhaps they might have been saved.
I've always appreciated them. They use them in Iowa, what's wrong with your county?
If you want to save a few hundred $, find someplace other than the possible life saving strips.
And I find it hard to believe it costs $500 to maintain these strips, but I can't prove this. The rumble strips just south of my place, I don't believe have been touched for years. Cost?
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 35
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,4:28 pm |
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"I'm the poster girl for rumble strips. I can't tell you how many times they've woke me up......." Sue Miller, County Engineer, at County Commissioner meeting last year.
Attached Image
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 36
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The Game
Group: Members
Posts: 879
Joined: Jul. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,5:31 pm |
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I personally like the strips. One of te main reasons is that I did not grow up here and I also dont know the area all that well even after being here a few years. In all the places I have ever been I have never seen so many unprotected RR tracks and country stops. Goven some of the dense fog and show that we do get here I came to rely on the strips as a tactile and audio clue to let me know something was coming up. I sure many who have not lived here all their lives have the same feeling about them. I pay attention when I drive, but a little help to a hazard area is always welcome.
Hunter
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| Post Number: 37
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Replicant
Group: Members
Posts: 1570
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,6:15 pm |
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Personally I am glad rumble strips were voted down.
I am surprised that those of you who question every dollar that is spent, seem to approve of rumble strips when there is at best limited proof they help. Great that Belshan found one study by some group that says they help. $500 times 146 intersections is $73,000 (ironically the cost of a video system according to Gabrielson). I personally dislike them. Much prefer signage and/or painted warnings. Has anybody estimated the cost of signage or painting per intersection?
Signage, properly placed, reflective, is plenty visible even in snow and fog. As has been pointed out, when snowpacked or ice covered, rumble strips (and paint) won't do any good.
As to this particular intersection, the last fatality there was due to a drunk driver, is anyone seriously going to believe that strips would have stopped that guy from blowing through? Don't know the circumstances regarding the accident Walter Wanger allegedly came across, so no one has said they would have made any difference there.
Yes, life is precious. But are we expecting that government needs to take every possible precaution? Seems to me that's why we've gotten to the point we're at now with budgets stretched to the max because someone expects "government" to save us from ourselves.
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Some drink deeply from the river of knowledge. Others only gargle. - Woody Allen
The problem is not that we have too many fools, it's that the lightning isn't distributed right. - Mark Twain.
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| Post Number: 38
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,6:55 pm |
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[/quote]Rumble strips will be phased out on county roads
By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer
After several years of research and discussion, the Freeborn County board approved phasing out the use of rumble strips because of the cost.
Rumble strips are sections of road, ground by machines to create a rough sensation for occupants when cars drive over them. They are placed before intersections where vehicles are required to stop as a warning for drivers who may be impaired or are unaware of the need to stop.
Since the state has not regulated the use of rumble strips, counties have to develop and approve their own policies.
The policy notes that in lane rumble strips have been "inconsistently installed at various intersections and locations throughout the county." Research by the commissioners and County Engineer Sue Miller has found the effectiveness of in lane rumble strips "as an effective crash countermeasure, are inconclusive."
Commissioner Dan Belshan presented data from the Minnesota Local Road Research Board that showed positive results with rumble strips. Two neighboring communities, Mankato and Rochester, also implement rumble strips on certain occasions, he said.
"Where it shows a problem, we can install them where they're needed," he said.
But, because of funding issues installing rumble strips wherever they're needed could be more costly than it's worth, according to some of the commissioners.
"If we're going to replace or install (rumble strips) at all the major intersections, it would be quite a large investment," said Commissioner Glen Mathiason.
There is also the problem of consistency. Rumble strips are currently installed at over 30 locations in the county. In order to avoid lawsuits due to liability issues, the rumble strips would have to be installed and kept in good condition at 146 locations.
According to an estimate, each rumble strip would cost $500 every three to five years to maintain.
The board voted 3-2 to approve the policy, with Commissioners Belshan and Jim Nelson dissenting.
"We should be replacing those rumble strips where they've been taken out," Belshan said.
Though rumble strips may eventually be obsolete in the county, other traffic control devices will be installed, such as oversized stop signs with reflective strips.
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 39
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,7:11 pm |
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O.K., it just blows my bubble when the commisioner's do something this stupid. Talk about the possibility of something soon to come.
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 40
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danbelshan
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2005,9:04 pm |
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| Quote (Replicant @ Mar. 16 2005,6:15,pm) | Personally I am glad rumble strips were voted down.
I am surprised that those of you who question every dollar that is spent, seem to approve of rumble strips when there is at best limited proof they help. Great that Belshan found one study by some group that says they help. $500 times 146 intersections is $73,000 (ironically the cost of a video system according to Gabrielson). I personally dislike them. Much prefer signage and/or painted warnings. Has anybody estimated the cost of signage or painting per intersection?
Signage, properly placed, reflective, is plenty visible even in snow and fog. As has been pointed out, when snowpacked or ice covered, rumble strips (and paint) won't do any good.
As to this particular intersection, the last fatality there was due to a drunk driver, is anyone seriously going to believe that strips would have stopped that guy from blowing through? Don't know the circumstances regarding the accident Walter Wanger allegedly came across, so no one has said they would have made any difference there.
Yes, life is precious. But are we expecting that government needs to take every possible precaution? Seems to me that's why we've gotten to the point we're at now with budgets stretched to the max because someone expects "government" to save us from ourselves. |
I just thought I'd set the record straight. I presented four studies at the meeting.
1) MN Department of Transportation Office of Research Services Local Road Research Board study "those with rumble strips braked earlier and harder...recommend folllow up study on in lane rumble strips involving sleep deprived, under the influence of alcohol, or driving in poor conditions"
2) AAA released a list of top ten ways governments can improve roads and intersections Number four " Install larger 30 inch stop signs as well as roadway lines or rumble strips to alert drivers a stop is ahead"
3) University of Minnesota Human Factors Research "While some good information was obtained, the simulation was not set up to test subjects that were sleep-deprived or inattentive. This would be the condition when rumble strips are likely to be more useful" and, sighting the April 2001 Laboratory study "Drivers that approached STOP conditions with rumble strips applied the brake earlier and harder than at STOP conditions without rumble strips."
4) From the Rochester and Mankato MNDOT Districts (not those cities as reported in Tribune article). Our County is divided between the two Districts. Mankato District uses rumble strips agressively, Rochester not as much, BUT THEY BOTH USE THEM. Rochester District "at trunk highway to trunk highway in rural areas". NOT EVERYWHERE. In Mankato District " in advance of rural trunk highway stop situations" NOT EVERYWHERE. The point being that putting them at 146 locations or not at all is not accurate. In lane rumble strips need NOT be put everywhere, they could be put case by case only at intersections that have evidenced problems.
I also checked with MCIT, the County's insurance carrier after statements were made that we could be sued by not having them everywhere. I received emails from MCIT saying they have "regularly and successfully defended claims involving rumble strips" and "MCIT has been very successful in defending these claims on the basis of case law".
This wasn't new information. I presented this info, and more, to the board at least twice between May 2004 (after rumble strips had been removed and a death occured at County 30 and County 46 in April '04) and yesterday's meeting.
When asked at our last workshop on rumble strips our County leading safety officer Sheriff Harig said he would like them replaced when they were removed after County road construction.
Yesterday afternoon my wife attended a defensive driving course taught by a retired state trooper. She asked his opinion of in lane rumble strips and told him of the board's decision to remove all. He said he thought they should be used on a case by case basis at dangerous intersections, not a blanket all or nothing.
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Go to danbelshan.com for my newsletters.
Go to Dan Belshan on facebook to get the latest.
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