Topic: RUMBLE STRIPS
started by: MADDOG
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 02 2004,5:57 pm
The National Highway Safety Administration has identified that driver inattention is major contributor to highway crashed. The administration estimates that 25% of police reported crashes involve some form of driver inattention.Distraction, combined with an increasingly sleep deprived population, leads to a number of preventable crashes.One way State Highway Departments have been combating driver inattention and fatigue is the installation of rumble strips. The use of rumble shoulder rumble strip has been adopted by a number of states. When a driver strays toward the shoulder, he receives both a vibration and a audible cue that they are about to leave the road. In addition to placement of shoulder rumble strips, much discussion has been made on in-lane rumble strips installed at stop signs and railroad crossings. Like the argument on shoulder strips, in-lane rumble strips give a driver both a vibration and audible cue that road conditions are about to change.
Historically, rumble strips have been used to alert driver's of upcoming changes in road conditions. (i.e. intersection, stop or yieldconditions, railroad crossings and areas with poor geometrics or places with a large number of accidents) While the use of rumble strips continue to be popular, little documentation of accidents before/after accident/crash information has been published.
One report, NCHRP synthsis 191 Use of rumble strips to enhance safety-A Synthesis of Highway Practices, published in 1993 summarizes information on highway travel lanes usage. The author of this report indicates that most of the before and after studies are small, not statistically significant, poorly designed and difficult to quantify. Given the limitations of the information available, the author of the report was able to only draw limited conclusions. He indicated that:
Despite the lack rigor of in their accident evaluation designs, the study results in the literature, generally indicate that rumble strip installation in the travel lane can be effective in reducing accidents, however the study results are not reliable to quantify the expected accident reduction effectiveness.
Rumble strip installation in the travel lane should be considered at locations where rear-end and ran STOP SIGNS accidents involving an apparent lack of driver attention are prevelant.
Care should be taken not to overuse rumble strips by placing them in too many locations in the travel lane.
Normally, placement of rumble strips in the travel lane should only be considered where a documented accident problem exists and only after more conventional treatments, such as signing have been tried and found ineffective.
Source: the Minnesota Department of Transportration. There's much more infomation on this site. It's a pdf file, you can find at www.lrrb.gen.mn.us/pdf/200207.pdf
Posted by Montyman on Jul. 03 2004,10:28 am
I don't know what your agenda is, but you failed to point out the current/recent studies about in-lane rumble strips being done by the U of M, Mn/DOT and other researchers...additional studies are also underway. You are quoting a 10+ year old research report. Get with it!Preliminary conclusions at this stage are that the in-lane strips only cause drivers to brake sooner.
Impaired drivers are to be studied in greater detail.
The fact is----impaired drivers are the problem in most cases, not the roadway or signs or rumble strips.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 03 2004,10:42 am
| Quote |
You are quoting a 10+ year old research report. Get with it! |
So, in the ten years since that report was published, what's changed? Aren't rumble strips, cars, intersections and people all the same now as they were 10 years ago?
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 03 2004,11:05 am
Montyman, you are correct that ongoing studies are being done. I believe the U of M Human Factors Lab is currently doing a 18 month study. However, this report was revised June, 2000. Yes, they have found that drivers brake sooner, but also harder. The question is, do rumble strips possible lower accidents and save lives? | Quote |
| The fact is----impaired drivers are the problem in most cases, not the roadway or signs or rumble strips. |
Question, could rumble strips possibly saved that little girls life that was taken east of Hayward recently?
Posted by Montyman on Jul. 03 2004,3:52 pm
Can you tell me what the "inattentive driver's" BAC was?I heard it was over 0.2...that's REALLY "inattentive"!
I used the word "impaired" to mean sh--faced.
The Human Factors Lab has not yet concluded that in-lane rumble strips are effective.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 03 2004,5:09 pm
It was right at the legal limit according to the Albert Lea Tribune| Quote |
Last week, Mark Lovell was changed with vehicular homicide in the death of one-year-old Cloe Jauregui, who died when the car she was riding in with her parents and siblings, was hit by Lovell. A blood test following the crash showed Lovell had a .10 blood alcohol level. Albert Lea Tribune 5/23/04 |
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 04 2004,12:41 pm
Montyman, sh#$faced or not, and Liberal showed you he was.10, does rumble strips help not cause accidents? My controversy isn't with you, but with Sue Miller (Highway Department who seems to be against installing them. (No offense Sue)
Posted by Mamma on Jul. 05 2004,7:01 am
I do a lot of traveling every week. I tend to get off the beaten track as much as possible, and have been on the back roads of most of Iowa and Wisconsin. I KNOW that rumble strips help. They have alerted me to an intersection that I didn't know existed. I really have a problem thinking it is a high priced option to alerting people to a stop sign. In the cases where I have run into the rumble strips, a larger stop sign just wouldn't have helped. I wonder why Ms Miller is so against the rumble strips. I can't imagine it is money....she didn't have a problem asking for a new office. If the state can run the strips for miles and miles why can't the county put in a couple on the intersections that need them? 
Posted by Ole1kanobe on Jul. 05 2004,5:10 pm
| Quote |
| I wonder why Ms Miller is so against the rumble strips. I can't imagine it is money....she didn't have a problem asking for a new office. If the state can run the strips for miles and miles why can't the county put in a couple on the intersections that need them? |
Exactly
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 05 2004,7:02 pm
Maybe they can't afford the study.
Posted by The Rocket on Jul. 05 2004,9:32 pm
The impression i got from reading the minutes is that Ms Miller is not against rumble strips but wants the board to decide on a policy on where to put them ie: all blacktops intersecting blacktops with stop signs. What she states is that there is no clear study showing wether they are effective or not so her recommendation is all or none at this point. The board is the governing body that has to decide policy and of course where will it be funded. One more thing if Belshan wants it guess what the vote will be.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 05 2004,11:43 pm
| Quote |
The Board began discussion of in-lane rumble strips. Highway Engineer Sue Miller stated that rumble strips were not considered a standard traffic control device. Ms. Miller has attended seminars in which it was strongly recommended not to use in lane rumble strips as a means of traffic control and uniformity is recommended to avoid potential litigation. Larger stop signs and stop ahead signs are recommended. Commissioner Mullenbach offered the following motion: MOVED, to accept Highway Engineer Sue Miller’s opinion not to install in-lane rumble strips. Motion seconded by Commissioner Springborg. Discussion was tabled, to be continued after the Shell Rock River Watershed update. < Commissioner Minutes 9-13-03 > |
I don't know what minutes you've read, but, I was at the meeting when this was discussed and she wanted to remove all in-lane rumble strips in the county. She claimed it was a liabilty issue and that if we had them at one intersection we had to have them at all. (using that logic if we had a yield sign at one intersection then we would have to have them at all)
I don't know where she came up with that crazy liabilty issue either. I'd love to see some proof of that.
After that accident happened she was asked why they weren't in yet and that's when she started up with the, "we need to have a policy in place." Belshan then made a motion that the County Engineer replace all rumble strips she's removed during her reign" and of course that vote failed.
Posted by cpu_slave on Jul. 09 2004,3:51 pm
For anyone here who does not know exactly what a rumble strip is: It is simply a group of notches cut into the pavement- not some *magical* part of the road that must be imported from the far east. What I can't understand is where is the cost to put these in? A saw and a couple of hours? How much money is actually saved by not putting them in?And as far as the 'all or none'- get real! Using that logic, I would expect to see stop signs at EVERY intersection in the county, including the city. So why are there all those uncontrolled intersections out there if we have this 'all or none' mentality? Someone needs to slap some common sense into that engineer...
Posted by Montyman on Jul. 09 2004,6:21 pm
I believe that 'all or none' means that rumble strips would be placed at 'all' intersections with STOP signs, or at 'none'...no place.Traffic signage is not the same issue as rumble strips. Period.
I don't think that rumble strips have never really been an accepted standard, have they?
Signs have standard applications...driven by State and Federal POLICY (yes, policy). Unfortunately, policies ARE needed, and Miller is correct in stating so.
People still disobey signs too and 'run' intersections anyway, don't they?
There were stoplights out by home depot where the biker got mashed. Were there any non-standard traffic control devices? Were there any rumble strips?
Perhaps 'common sense' also means thinking before lashing out?
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2004,6:52 pm
| Quote |
I believe that 'all or none' means that rumble strips would be placed at 'all' intersections with STOP signs, or at 'none'...no place. |
Why would you put a in-lane rumble strip anywhere but an intersection with a stop sign?
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Traffic signage is not the same issue as rumble strips. Period. |
Who said they were?
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I don't think that rumble strips have never really been an accepted standard, have they? |
I've got no idea what that means, otherwise I'd try to answer it.
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Signs have standard applications...driven by State and Federal POLICY (yes, policy). Unfortunately, policies ARE needed, and Miller is correct in stating so. |
It's not like they were never there, she didn't cut them back in after road resurfacing. She knew where they were she didn't need a policy. In fact she handed out a map with every rumble strip she had taken out marked in blue. She could have followed the map.
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People still disobey signs too and 'run' intersections anyway, don't they? |
Traffic signage is not the same issue as rumble strips. Period.
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There were stoplights out by home depot where the biker got mashed. Were there any non-standard traffic control devices? Were there any rumble strips? |
Well, maybe if there were rumble strips out there things might not have turned out the way they did.
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Perhaps 'common sense' also means thinking before lashing out? |
Perhaps, it doesn't.
Posted by danbelshan on Jul. 09 2004,6:53 pm
Talking with other counties I've been told the installation cost with a private firm is aprox $300 per intersection however I don't have that in writing. I also emailed our County insurance company and they emailed that there they have defended successfully libility cases and what they want in place if we put them in certain areas is accident history, approach,and other valid safety reasons to insure our defense if sued.
No mention of all or none policy that is being touted.
In driving thoughout the state on state highways certain districts put more in than others. i.e. Rochester will put them in as a last resort only in certain high crash areas after all other safety devices have been used but the Mankato district DOT uses them more often.
Posted by Montyman on Jul. 09 2004,9:18 pm
wow liberal!good post!
Posted by Ole1kanobe on Jul. 09 2004,10:20 pm
Well let's just start calling spades spades here.I think the real problem is the fact that just about everything (just about I said) that is done in this county is basically half-@ssed at best.
I am guessing everyone will want examples, so here are a few just off the top of my head:
The road by Wal-Mart
The signage that was up when the road was closed by Wal-Mart
The Albert Lea Tribune's previous editor's editing (he talked to a fictional person that 'lived' in the basement of the Trib to provide filler for the paper for crying out loud!)
Not putting rumble strips back in the road after resurfacing the road (when they were already there to begin with, obviously they just might have been there for a reason.)
The County Board's job review for Gabe (County Admin.)
The 'investigation' of an officer inappropriately touching a minor that resided with him
The pay to piss idea
The new 140 bed jail (that didn't get finished on time)
Cutting environmental services budget and made sure the state made us a watershed district
Ex-editor getting us on Jay Leno with the headline "sheriff says bars on windows will prevent further escapes"
County Atty sued the County for a raise and they gave him more than they had to per the judgment
Rule 19
Rule 19
El Rule 19
etc...
etc...
So maybe a majority of this County's problem does not lie in our policy's so much as the people that are responsible for creating and enforcing them?
Time for more than a change, time for an all out mutiny? Let's at least try to get our county back.
Oh, and I'm for getting not only the rumble strips REPLACED that were covered, but also getting them on more intersections of county roads and highways.
Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 10 2004,10:13 am
| Quote (Ole1kanobe @ July 09 2004,10:20:pm) |
| The 'investigation' of an officer inappropriately touching a minor that resided with him |
I never heard of this, can you elaborate on what happened?
Posted by Ole1kanobe on Jul. 10 2004,10:54 pm
The name Farris ring a bell?
Posted by cpu_slave on Jul. 12 2004,9:54 am
| Quote |
| I believe that 'all or none' means that rumble strips would be placed at 'all' intersections with STOP signs, or at 'none'...no place. |
and what exactly made you think that I did not understand what ‘all or none’ means? Was there something unclear in my post about this? Besides, do you think that they were put in at certain intersections for a reason to begin with? Perhaps they had higher than average rates of accidents or near-misses so it was decided to put them in decades ago for a reason?
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| Traffic signage is not the same issue as rumble strips. Period. |
My understanding is that rumble strips are used to notify motorists of an upcoming stop sign. Can you name another reason they are used?
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| I don't think that rumble strips have never really been an accepted standard, have they? |
They have been used in places where there was already an existing stop sign and traffic accidents were still higher than normal. Fact is- they do save lives so perhaps they should be made a standard in places where traffic accidents occur at a higher than normal rate. This is practicing the seemingly forgotten art of common sense thinking, but the county engineer still thinks it should be all or none with nothing in-between.
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| Signs have standard applications...driven by State and Federal POLICY (yes, policy). Unfortunately, policies ARE needed, and Miller is correct in stating so. |
So why is she not working on proposing a policy? Why is she instead making the decision herself to remove them before there is even a policy?
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| People still disobey signs too and 'run' intersections anyway, don't they? |
Some perhaps intentionally, but some are also unintentional. Are you using the Miller school of thought here and trying to say that everyone who runs through an intersection is doing so intentionally?
| Quote |
| There were stoplights out by home depot where the biker got mashed. Were there any non-standard traffic control devices? Were there any rumble strips? |
What would you consider standard vs. non-standard? As for rumble strips, have they ever been used to notify motorists of an upcoming traffic light? I thought there standard use was to notify of an upcoming stop sign?
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| Perhaps 'common sense' also means thinking before lashing out? |
Might I suggest practicing what you preach?
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| if we put them in certain areas is accident history, approach,and other valid safety reasons to insure our defense if sued. No mention of all or none policy that is being touted. |
This is the sort of common sense thinking I am talking about- no all or none, just putting them in places where they would help. Like I stated before, I believe there was a reason they were put in places where they are\were for a REASON- removing them without actually knowing why they were there in the first place is not thinking at all now is it?
Posted by danbelshan on Jul. 12 2004,5:52 pm
Just got back from an interesting weekend in Rapid City S.D.Yesterday evening we were coming back to Rapid going east on State Highway 44 about four miles out of town coming down a hill when we drove over, heard, and felt a rumble strip in our lane. We didn't remember a stop sign or any rumble strips on the way out, but slowed immediately, and then saw why we were warned, a sharp curve to the right! If we'd sped over it we joked we would have "sailed right over" the cliff as Jimmy Durante did in "Mad Mad Mad Mad World."
This rumble strip did its job of warning a couple of tourists gawking at the scenery to be aware of danger. That was a new use to me, but it worked. (Note: not every curve on a hill had a rumble strip, and this was not an old road or an old rumble strip. Do you suppose SD will be on court TV someday because not every hill and curve had a strip? I doubt it.)
Posted by The Rocket on Jul. 12 2004,8:41 pm
You know the old saying, $h!t or get off the pot. From this forum the "all" sounds like it is not an option and "none" isn't either. So, Dan, make a reasonable motion to install rumble strips at locations that meet certain criteria. If you start with a very basic criteria it can always be tweaked. Then when it is voted down the forum and letters to the editor can light up. Does the county public works have the equipment to install them?
Posted by danbelshan on Jul. 12 2004,10:40 pm
Rocket: thanks, that's good advice. I don't think our County has the hardware to grind rumble strips in. Other counties usually hire private contractors to install them quickly and fairly cheaply--Steele County told me they did it for about $300 per intersection.
I checked with our County insurance--no county brought into litigation had lost the case because of rumble strips as of the date I inquired.
Walter Wangen is a former County Commissioner for District 2. He came upon an accident years ago resulting in death when there were no rumble strips and spoke for rumble strips. The most recent death was at the same intersection after the rumble strips had been removed.
County Board Minutes Sept 15 2003
The Board began discussion of in-lane rumble strips. Highway Engineer Sue Miller stated that rumble strips were not considered a standard traffic control device. Ms. Miller has attended seminars in which it was strongly recommended not to use in lane rumble strips as a means of traffic control and uniformity is recommended to avoid potential litigation. Larger stop signs and stop ahead signs are recommended.
Commissioner Mullenbach offered the following motion:
MOVED, to accept Highway Engineer Sue Miller’s opinion not to install in-lane rumble strips. Motion seconded by Commissioner Springborg. Discussion was tabled, to be continued after the Shell Rock River Watershed update...
The discussion of in-lane rumble strips was resumed.
Jim Hanson, 73950 275th Street, Clarks Grove, does not feel that additional stop signs work.
Mr. Roger Bok, 1012 Cato Drive, Albert Lea, stated the Interstate uses rumble strips on the side and feels that rumble strips are beneficial and help when driving in the fog or a blizzard.
Walter Wangen, 23396 850th Avenue, Albert Lea, recollected various accidents and reasons he believes rumble strips would be beneficial.
After much discussion the motion was defeated 3-2, Commissioners Springborg, Belshan and Mathiason voting no, Commissioners Mullenbach and Behrends voting yes.
The vote not to install in lane rumble strips failed 3 to 2. After this motion failed I thought existing ones would NOT be taken out and the county would replace the ones that had already been removed. I was wrong. I thought the opposite of NOT to install was TO install. I guess I didn't know the meaning of not.
Posted by The Rocket on Jul. 13 2004,10:50 pm
Dan, in reading your report of the meeting it seems to me Mulenbach made a useless motion. It appears to be a motion to accept an opinion. It sets no policy or gives no direction to anyone. waste of time. Whether the motion was defeated or passed the out come is the same.
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 18 2004,9:12 am
| Quote |
| Harder, Kathleen, College of Architecture and Landscape Architecture Title: Reducing Crashes at Controlled Rural Intersections (2001008) Sponsor: Minnesota Local Road Research Board Abstract: This proposal is in response to the call of Mn/DOT and the Local Road Research Board, for innovative research on ways to improve safety at controlled rural intersections. Right angle crashes at these intersections are of significant concern. It is currently believed there are two types of problems at controlled rural intersections 1) Drivers do not stop, or 2) drivers stop and then pull out into oncoming traffic. The objective of Phase I (outlined in this proposal) of this project is to generate innovative ways in which to address and diminish these two sets of behavior with the overall goal of improving safety in these problem areas. We do not anticipate solving the problem in Phase I, but we do expect to make substantive progress toward facilitating creative resolutions to safety-related issues now present at rural intersections. |
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| There has to be a way to lessen these kind af accidents. [quote] more from Kathleen Harder |
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 18 2004,9:43 am
Rumble strips won't get you sued, but, not maintaining them will. So, we shouldn't be taking them out to avoid litigation, but, properly maintaining them to avoid litigation. The counties policy should be to leave them where they are and cut them back in after resurfacing and also ensure they are properly maintained between resurfacing (if you're worried about a lawsuit). And when considering maintaining them between resurfacing we also have to consider that according to MCIT no county has ever lost a lawsuit over rumble strips in this state.
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 03 2005,8:40 pm
This just occurred to me. I was at the folk in Iowa today. I take this route all the time.Taking Winnebago County blacktop to Minnesota. I go to Rake, turn and go to Scarville, north to State line road and turn to Emmons. In Winnebago, I hit 2 stop signs and 1 T corner. Want to know what is at each one? Rumble strips!
Then on State Line Road about 1/2 way to Emmons, Freeborn County takes over. "Co. Rd. 60" 3 miles west of Emmons, you come over a hill and intersect with Co. Rd. 4 at the curve. Co. Rd. does not stop. Guess what I don't hit.
RUMBLE STRIPS
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS COUNTY ANYWAY. Why does the county resist these safety devises? Sure I know the road, but everyone would not. Looking for a fatality?
Posted by truckwriter94 on Feb. 05 2005,2:34 pm
As you all know from my name, I drive semis for a living. I can tell you rumble strips have saved my a$$ more than once. I don’t particularly care for the cross strips in front of semaphores because they vibrate my truck to high heaven. BUT, I believe they save lives because they’ve woken me up from daydreaming in time to deal with an intersection. I too, have seen cross strips ahead of curves and strongly agree with that plan of action. Now, rumble strips on the side and center line have saved me and my truck quite a few times. I literally hate driving on I-35 in a blizzard. I mean, who wouldn’t, right? I’ve driven on that darn road when I couldn’t see past my wiper blades and just turned the wheel every time I felt the front end going into the ditch. (Obviously I’m not stupid. I just have a fire happy boss and can’t afford the house payment without this job.) Anyway, there are a few state highways that have the center and side strips because the roads are highly susceptible to blowing and drifting snow. I’m literally not afraid to drive on these roads in any weather condition. This means I’m a more calm driver and more likely to be capable of dealing with any given situation.
Someone needs to tell this woman to pull her head out and start talking to some professional drivers, not to mention the people who drive these county roads every day. Get this crap dealt with by hiring a contractor. Then start dealing with the fact that we need stop lights on Bridge ave around Hy-Vee and Shopko. That area is insanity waiting to happen. I’ve witnessed an accident out there. They’ve faked studies to get lights elsewhere. Why can’t they do it for places that really need it?
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 05 2005,5:49 pm
There, Sue, you've heard it from someone who's not an advocate of the county.Please use rumble strips.
If it costs $600 to maintain one, so what. What price could you possibly put on just one life?
Posted by DrBombay on Feb. 06 2005,9:19 am
| Quote |
| I checked with our County insurance--no county brought into litigation had lost the case because of rumble strips as of the date I inquired. Walter Wangen is a former County Commissioner for District 2. He came upon an accident years ago resulting in death when there were no rumble strips and spoke for rumble strips. The most recent death was at the same intersection after the rumble strips had been removed. |
I wonder how many counties brought into litigation had actually removed Rumble strips at intersections that had previously been deemed a hazard because of a fatality.
If I found out that a loved one of mine had been injured or killed at an intersection that previously had Rumble strips because of a fatality and the county had taken them out I'd find a lawyer that would sue the county for everything it was worth. It seems to me in a case like this the county's asking to be sued......and rightly so.
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 16 2005,11:18 am
| Quote |
| Rumble strips will be phased out on county roads By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer After several years of research and discussion, the Freeborn County board approved phasing out the use of rumble strips because of the cost. Rumble strips are sections of road, ground by machines to create a rough sensation for occupants when cars drive over them. They are placed before intersections where vehicles are required to stop as a warning for drivers who may be impaired or are unaware of the need to stop. Since the state has not regulated the use of rumble strips, counties have to develop and approve their own policies. The policy notes that in lane rumble strips have been "inconsistently installed at various intersections and locations throughout the county." Research by the commissioners and County Engineer Sue Miller has found the effectiveness of in lane rumble strips "as an effective crash countermeasure, are inconclusive." Commissioner Dan Belshan presented data from the Minnesota Local Road Research Board that showed positive results with rumble strips. Two neighboring communities, Mankato and Rochester, also implement rumble strips on certain occasions, he said. "Where it shows a problem, we can install them where they're needed," he said. But, because of funding issues installing rumble strips wherever they're needed could be more costly than it's worth, according to some of the commissioners. "If we're going to replace or install (rumble strips) at all the major intersections, it would be quite a large investment," said Commissioner Glen Mathiason. There is also the problem of consistency. Rumble strips are currently installed at over 30 locations in the county. In order to avoid lawsuits due to liability issues, the rumble strips would have to be installed and kept in good condition at 146 locations. According to an estimate, each rumble strip would cost $500 every three to five years to maintain. The board voted 3-2 to approve the policy, with Commissioners Belshan and Jim Nelson dissenting. "We should be replacing those rumble strips where they've been taken out," Belshan said. Though rumble strips may eventually be obsolete in the county, other traffic control devices will be installed, such as oversized stop signs with reflective strips. |
Next traffic death occuring at an intersection that stops one way and HAD or needed rumble strips give Sue "our county" Miller and the commisioners not highlighted in red above a call and say thanks
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 16 2005,3:49 pm
And it WILL happen!
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 16 2005,4:16 pm
I can't believe that our highway engineer would/could put the possibilty of human lives in jepordy over something that would cost the county $500 every few years. (and I question the cost)Sue Miller, what exactly is the price of a human live? I mean, in fog or snow storm, where would you know where to stop if you were on an unknown county road and weren't sure where where you were at?
I do realize that 3 commissioners are just taking your advise, but if Belshan hadn't pushed for more rumble strips, you might have kept them.
I used to respect you, but that's gone now.
May the next death be on your shoulders.
Perhaps they might have been saved.
I've always appreciated them. They use them in Iowa, what's wrong with your county?
If you want to save a few hundred $, find someplace other than the possible life saving strips.
And I find it hard to believe it costs $500 to maintain these strips, but I can't prove this. The rumble strips just south of my place, I don't believe have been touched for years. Cost?
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 16 2005,4:28 pm
"I'm the poster girl for rumble strips. I can't tell you how many times they've woke me up......." Sue Miller, County Engineer, at County Commissioner meeting last year.
Posted by The Game on Mar. 16 2005,5:31 pm
I personally like the strips. One of te main reasons is that I did not grow up here and I also dont know the area all that well even after being here a few years. In all the places I have ever been I have never seen so many unprotected RR tracks and country stops. Goven some of the dense fog and show that we do get here I came to rely on the strips as a tactile and audio clue to let me know something was coming up. I sure many who have not lived here all their lives have the same feeling about them. I pay attention when I drive, but a little help to a hazard area is always welcome. Hunter
Posted by Replicant on Mar. 16 2005,6:15 pm
Personally I am glad rumble strips were voted down.I am surprised that those of you who question every dollar that is spent, seem to approve of rumble strips when there is at best limited proof they help. Great that Belshan found one study by some group that says they help. $500 times 146 intersections is $73,000 (ironically the cost of a video system according to Gabrielson). I personally dislike them. Much prefer signage and/or painted warnings. Has anybody estimated the cost of signage or painting per intersection?
Signage, properly placed, reflective, is plenty visible even in snow and fog. As has been pointed out, when snowpacked or ice covered, rumble strips (and paint) won't do any good.
As to this particular intersection, the last fatality there was due to a drunk driver, is anyone seriously going to believe that strips would have stopped that guy from blowing through? Don't know the circumstances regarding the accident Walter Wanger allegedly came across, so no one has said they would have made any difference there.
Yes, life is precious. But are we expecting that government needs to take every possible precaution? Seems to me that's why we've gotten to the point we're at now with budgets stretched to the max because someone expects "government" to save us from ourselves.
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 16 2005,6:55 pm
[/quote]Rumble strips will be phased out on county roadsBy Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer
After several years of research and discussion, the Freeborn County board approved phasing out the use of rumble strips because of the cost.
Rumble strips are sections of road, ground by machines to create a rough sensation for occupants when cars drive over them. They are placed before intersections where vehicles are required to stop as a warning for drivers who may be impaired or are unaware of the need to stop.
Since the state has not regulated the use of rumble strips, counties have to develop and approve their own policies.
The policy notes that in lane rumble strips have been "inconsistently installed at various intersections and locations throughout the county." Research by the commissioners and County Engineer Sue Miller has found the effectiveness of in lane rumble strips "as an effective crash countermeasure, are inconclusive."
Commissioner Dan Belshan presented data from the Minnesota Local Road Research Board that showed positive results with rumble strips. Two neighboring communities, Mankato and Rochester, also implement rumble strips on certain occasions, he said.
"Where it shows a problem, we can install them where they're needed," he said.
But, because of funding issues installing rumble strips wherever they're needed could be more costly than it's worth, according to some of the commissioners.
"If we're going to replace or install (rumble strips) at all the major intersections, it would be quite a large investment," said Commissioner Glen Mathiason.
There is also the problem of consistency. Rumble strips are currently installed at over 30 locations in the county. In order to avoid lawsuits due to liability issues, the rumble strips would have to be installed and kept in good condition at 146 locations.
According to an estimate, each rumble strip would cost $500 every three to five years to maintain.
The board voted 3-2 to approve the policy, with Commissioners Belshan and Jim Nelson dissenting.
"We should be replacing those rumble strips where they've been taken out," Belshan said.
Though rumble strips may eventually be obsolete in the county, other traffic control devices will be installed, such as oversized stop signs with reflective strips.
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 16 2005,7:11 pm
O.K., it just blows my bubble when the commisioner's do something this stupid. Talk about the possibility of something soon to come.
Posted by danbelshan on Mar. 16 2005,9:04 pm
| Quote (Replicant @ Mar. 16 2005,6:15,pm) |
| Personally I am glad rumble strips were voted down. I am surprised that those of you who question every dollar that is spent, seem to approve of rumble strips when there is at best limited proof they help. Great that Belshan found one study by some group that says they help. $500 times 146 intersections is $73,000 (ironically the cost of a video system according to Gabrielson). I personally dislike them. Much prefer signage and/or painted warnings. Has anybody estimated the cost of signage or painting per intersection? Signage, properly placed, reflective, is plenty visible even in snow and fog. As has been pointed out, when snowpacked or ice covered, rumble strips (and paint) won't do any good. As to this particular intersection, the last fatality there was due to a drunk driver, is anyone seriously going to believe that strips would have stopped that guy from blowing through? Don't know the circumstances regarding the accident Walter Wanger allegedly came across, so no one has said they would have made any difference there. Yes, life is precious. But are we expecting that government needs to take every possible precaution? Seems to me that's why we've gotten to the point we're at now with budgets stretched to the max because someone expects "government" to save us from ourselves. |
I just thought I'd set the record straight. I presented four studies at the meeting.
1) MN Department of Transportation Office of Research Services Local Road Research Board study "those with rumble strips braked earlier and harder...recommend folllow up study on in lane rumble strips involving sleep deprived, under the influence of alcohol, or driving in poor conditions"
2) AAA released a list of top ten ways governments can improve roads and intersections Number four " Install larger 30 inch stop signs as well as roadway lines or rumble strips to alert drivers a stop is ahead"
3) University of Minnesota Human Factors Research "While some good information was obtained, the simulation was not set up to test subjects that were sleep-deprived or inattentive. This would be the condition when rumble strips are likely to be more useful" and, sighting the April 2001 Laboratory study "Drivers that approached STOP conditions with rumble strips applied the brake earlier and harder than at STOP conditions without rumble strips."
4) From the Rochester and Mankato MNDOT Districts (not those cities as reported in Tribune article). Our County is divided between the two Districts. Mankato District uses rumble strips agressively, Rochester not as much, BUT THEY BOTH USE THEM. Rochester District "at trunk highway to trunk highway in rural areas". NOT EVERYWHERE. In Mankato District " in advance of rural trunk highway stop situations" NOT EVERYWHERE. The point being that putting them at 146 locations or not at all is not accurate. In lane rumble strips need NOT be put everywhere, they could be put case by case only at intersections that have evidenced problems.
I also checked with MCIT, the County's insurance carrier after statements were made that we could be sued by not having them everywhere. I received emails from MCIT saying they have "regularly and successfully defended claims involving rumble strips" and "MCIT has been very successful in defending these claims on the basis of case law".
This wasn't new information. I presented this info, and more, to the board at least twice between May 2004 (after rumble strips had been removed and a death occured at County 30 and County 46 in April '04) and yesterday's meeting.
When asked at our last workshop on rumble strips our County leading safety officer Sheriff Harig said he would like them replaced when they were removed after County road construction.
Yesterday afternoon my wife attended a defensive driving course taught by a retired state trooper. She asked his opinion of in lane rumble strips and told him of the board's decision to remove all. He said he thought they should be used on a case by case basis at dangerous intersections, not a blanket all or nothing.
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 16 2005,10:09 pm
drive the county roads, when say the fog is so bad, you can't see 10 feet in front of you. Want that rumble now? God I wish there was a smilie pissin' on someone's leg. Damn!
Posted by danbelshan on Mar. 16 2005,10:12 pm
I just found the actual video of the meeting posted under another topic. Dang--I could have saved a lot of typing! Thanks, Liberal for showing government in action. < http://forum.albertlea.com/forum/rumblestrips.wmv >
Posted by Replicant on Mar. 16 2005,10:28 pm
Thanks for elaborating Dan.For the record, I have no problem with the approach of using rumble strips at problem intersections. So why has this come down to an "all or nothing" situation? It seems to me that "all" is overkill and so my choice is nothing.
Some other thoughts...
The MNDot Study did not study "sleep deprived, under the influence of alcohol, or driving in poor conditions." Neither did the U of M study cover sleep deprived or inattentive..."This would be the condition when rumble strips are likely to be more useful." Makes sense I guess, but how do they know if it hasn't been studied yet?
The AAA says "Install larger 30 inch stop signs as well as roadway lines or rumble strips." Lines OR strips.
You note that neither Rochestor or Mankato districts use them everywhere. The defensive driving instructor (Dewey Severson?) says on a case by case basis.
So it leaves me wondering why we got to all or nothing. Case by case makes more sense, especially if it can be demonstated that rumble strips are as effective for impaired/inattentive drivers, and/or no more expensive than painted lines or extra signage. I'm all for common sense. But I don't expect government to put rumble strips, stop signs or traffic lights at every intersection just because an accident MAY occur there, or one accident did occur there last year and another one 20 years ago.
Posted by Montyman on Mar. 16 2005,10:58 pm
Where was the County Attorney's opinion on this issue?Or did I miss it?
Someone enlighten me, please.
Sue is not an attorney...but an engineer.
MM
PS---having a Board Policy is better than not having one...
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 16 2005,11:22 pm
| Quote |
| Case by case makes more sense |
But let's look at potetitial lives, here.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 17 2005,9:00 am
Sue brings up ONE guy that supports removing them--based on the "sky-is-falling" premise that "we could get sued". Belshan disproves her information--offers 4 opinions from AAA, MNDOT, and others. The final "stake through the heart of this un-dead vampire" of a proposal that never dies should have been | Quote |
| I checked with our County insurance--no county brought into litigation had lost the case because of rumble strips as of the date I inquired. |
Posted by DrBombay on Mar. 17 2005,1:29 pm
Well hey there Montyman;| Quote |
| Or did I miss it? |
maybe it was when you were out with Behrends and Hank Kimbal getting coffee.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 17 2005,2:21 pm
| Quote |
| maybe it was when you were out with Behrends and Hank Kimbal getting coffee. |
Posted by hairhertz on Mar. 18 2005,10:18 pm
A 2-lane section of 371 south of Brainerd has new rumble strips next to the center line and just over the white fog line on the shoulder; your teeth will rattle out of your mouth if your tires touch them; curious why they were installed? Drifting drivers coming off a 4-lane? Sleepy drivers in this stretch? An experiement for future consideration on other highways stretches?
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 24 2007,4:16 pm
I see Mr. Road Authority is giving us his opinion on our county roads again.| Quote |
| Editorial: Rumble strips don’t help An advantage of transverse rumble strips — the kind that cross over the lane you are driving in — is they provide auditory and vibratory stimuli for drivers. But they don’t make people stop. In fact, some drivers are puzzled at their purpose because some states use them for construction zones, shoulders of pavement or purposes other than stopping. Rumbles also cause a rough ride for two-wheel travelers. Here is what research shows: They don’t work — no bones about it. People who don’t want to stop at rural stops signs don’t stop. They rumble over the rumble strips and keep going through the intersection. What does work is greater signage, which in turn makes the intersection seem — strange as it sounds — more important. Plus, if you live next to rumbles, they are annoying. The Freeborn County Board of Commissioners voted a few years ago to phase out all the rumbles. We agree. Let’s save our tax dollars for proven methods. < the expert editor > |
Posted by ICU812 on Jul. 24 2007,10:00 pm
| Quote |
| Plus, if you live next to rumbles, they are annoying. |
Got a real good point their, much rather here a family of 5 getting t-boned by a person not familiar with the roads. I know I have been saved by rumble strips............don't know if a collision would have occured but I would have gone thru the intersection( wanted to say "blow a stop sign" but some sicko out there...
)..Some intersections need them-some don't. It's really that simple.
| Quote |
| Rumbles also cause a rough ride for two-wheel travelers. |
Are these the same two-wheel travelers that are ruining your town with loud exhaust............Come on paper either they are good or bad, pick a side. I guess they could have been talking about Lance Armstrong types.
Posted by Madd Max on Jul. 24 2007,10:55 pm
| Quote (ICU812 @ July 24 2007,10:00pm) |
| I know I have been saved by rumble strips............don't know if a collision would have occured but I would have gone thru the intersection. |
I think the paper is dead wrong on this issue. I personally know of two bad accidents were people died because rumble strips were not installed on these intersections. But after they were installed (after the accidents) I have not heard of another accident at either site. In one accident four people lost there lives and in the other two people lost there lives. They say that there are no statistics’ that show rumble strips work. Well my point is if you have rumble strips at a blind intersection and no one has had a accident or was killed there in 20 years then I would have to say that they were doing there job.
Come on Its time to take the paper too task on that editorial. We need to start writing letters to the editor
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 25 2007,6:04 pm
Our highway engineer has always given the reason of liability if rumble strips are installed on only certain roads. It's every road or no road as far as her opinion is.She has also contended that there is not adequate proof that rumble strips slow people down and make intersections safer.
< Effectiveness of In Lane Rumble Strips >
| Quote |
| We found that, after drivers encountered the first set of in-lane rumble strips, they slowed down earlier on real-world approaches with rumble strips than on real-world approaches without rumble strips?the difference was, on average, 2.0 mph to 5.0 mph (depending on vehicle category and type of approach). In addition, speeding outliers were more likely to slow down earlier on approaches with rumble strips. The effect of the presence of in-lane rumble strips on stopping behavior was greater for approaches where the driver?s view of traffic on the major road is obscured on one or both sides of the road. The study suggests that stop-controlled intersections at which cross-traffic is obscured by manmade structures and/or vegetation on one or both sides of the intersection would be good candidates for implementing in-lane rumble strips. It is worth noting that while in-lane rumble strips are likely to reduce crashes, they cannot eliminate them. < Guidelines for Using Rumble Strips > |
Posted by busybee on Jul. 25 2007,10:26 pm
| Quote |
| I personally know of two bad accidents were people died because rumble strips were not installed on these intersections. But after they were installed (after the accidents) I have not heard of another accident at either site. In one accident four people lost there lives and in the other two people lost there lives. |
I'm not sure if you're talking about accidents in Freeborn County, but the intersection where four people died comment reminded me of the accident in September 1988 or 1989 where four people died by Hayward. I'm all for rumble strips, so don't get me wrong when I say this, but in that particular accident the presence or lack of (can't remember if there was any) rumble strips would not have had any affect on the results either way.
Posted by sumpdump on Jul. 26 2007,6:20 am
I've crossed these strips on my bike, it's a little louder than being in a car, but still help alert to the up comming intersection. Country roads during the summer with all the cornfields, ya these things should be installed at every intersection. If your not ripping across the the country like a bat outa hell, rumble strips, in my opinion do not drasticaly change the way a bike will handle. Small cost to save even one life.
Posted by ICU812 on Jul. 26 2007,7:21 am
| Quote (busybee @ July 25 2007,10:26pm) | ||
I'm not sure if you're talking about accidents in Freeborn County, but the intersection where four people died comment reminded me of the accident in September 1988 or 1989 where four people died by Hayward. I'm all for rumble strips, so don't get me wrong when I say this, but in that particular accident the presence or lack of (can't remember if there was any) rumble strips would not have had any affect on the results either way. |
You are right on that one, rumble strips would not have helped, they would have needed rumble strips in the ditch for the f-ing idiot that was driving the Jeep and jumping intersections.............
Posted by Madd Max on Jul. 26 2007,10:50 am
| Quote (MADDOG @ July 25 2007,6:04pm) |
| She has also contended that there is not adequate proof that rumble strips slow people down and make intersections safer. |
I will agree that the rumble strips will not help if some one is just plain stupid or on a mission to die.
I just think that how can the paper and highway engineer come out and say Rumble strips don't work. Maybe if they did a study of accident at certain sites showing data from 20 years before rumble strips were installed and then 20 years after the strips were put in. Then we would get a good look if rumble strips work or not. Prove it to me.
Remember the life that a rumble strip saves might be your own.
Posted by ICU812 on Aug. 10 2007,10:34 am
The Tribune doesn't hate rumble strips, they hate roads. 
| Quote |
| Editorial: Are there too many roads? Friday, August 10, 2007 9:31 AM CDT Here’s an aspect of the debate over transportation infrastructure that isn’t getting enough attention: Maybe America has too many roads. Maybe America could afford maintenance on its transportation infrastructure if there weren’t so much to maintain. We are an automobile culture, and maybe we’ve gone too far. States could look at whether they are trying to take care of too much infrastructure. Most people can agree the interstate highway system is absolutely necessary to the American economy. We agree, too. But perhaps it’s time to speculate whether America has too many secondary and tertiary routes. We are quick to build new roads and slow to shut down old ones. Look at any map. Take state Highway 105 south of Austin. You can tell most drivers would take U.S. Highway 218 instead. Traffic figures back up that observation. At the Iowa border, Highway 105 averages 220 cars per day, while Highway 218 has 2,800 per day. State taxpayers are funding a largely unused road. That’s a waste of money. There are plenty of low-traffic highways in Minnesota, too. Only 510 cars per day use state Highway 30 west of Mapleton. Only 185 cars day use state Highway 246 east of Nerstrand. Look up north and the numbers really dip. State Highway 1 in Beltrami County averages 50 cars a day. State Highway 65 south of Little Fork averages 90 cars a day and it has 40 cars a day by the time it gets north of Togo. Can the Minnesota Department of Transportation hand responsibility for maintaining less-traveled roads over to the counties? And shouldn’t the counties look at their systems more closely? It’s politically unpopular to close roads, but every rural county engineer knows which gravel roads are no longer needed and which paved roads could be turned over to gravel. If state and counties across the country took a good hard look at the unnecessary roads and then took action, there would be less to maintain and more funding to go around. It wouldn’t solve all of America’s infrastructure problems, but it would at least help. |
Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 03 2008,10:03 am
QUOTE
Gauging the Safety Effects of Rumble Strips at Rural Intersections
Prepared for
Bureau of Highway Operations
Division of Transportation System Development
Prepared by
CTC & Associates LLC
WisDOT Research & Library Unit
July 27, 2007
Request for Report
A common cause of traffic accidents at low-volume, rural intersections is failure by drivers on the minor approaches
to slow and stop for stop signs. One device that is frequently used by state DOTs to mitigate this problem is the
rumble strip. When installed on rural intersection approaches, rumble strips are believed to supplement other traffic
control devices in calling attention to the junction ahead and the traffic control used there. While rumble strips are
generally perceived to be effective in reducing intersection crashes, there is no consensus on their effectiveness. The
Wisconsin DOT Bureau of Highway Operations asked us to gather a sampling of research studies and other
documentation that objectively examine the safety effects of rumble strips installed on the approaches to rural
intersections.
Summary
We located a number of relevant research studies published by State DOTs and Academia and the Transportation
Research Board. Overall, the results of these studies indicate that rumble strips installed on the approaches to rural
intersections can cause drivers to reduce speed earlier and to a greater extent, and can significantly reduce the types
of accidents most susceptible to correction by rumble strips, including rear-end collisions and frontal impact crashes.
In simulator tests, rumble strips also slowed the approach speed of commercial drivers. In one study that we located,
researchers concluded that rumble strips were not successful at reducing approach speeds for the data analyzed, and
some negative impacts (speed increases) were recorded following the installation of rumble strips. Potential pitfalls
that have been associated with the installation of rumble strips in the traveled way include inappropriate motorist
responses such as using the opposing lanes to drive around the strips, and loss of control by motorcyclists and
bicyclists.
Prepared for
Bureau of Highway Operations
Division of Transportation System Development
Prepared by
CTC & Associates LLC
WisDOT Research & Library Unit
July 27, 2007
Request for Report
A common cause of traffic accidents at low-volume, rural intersections is failure by drivers on the minor approaches
to slow and stop for stop signs. One device that is frequently used by state DOTs to mitigate this problem is the
rumble strip. When installed on rural intersection approaches, rumble strips are believed to supplement other traffic
control devices in calling attention to the junction ahead and the traffic control used there. While rumble strips are
generally perceived to be effective in reducing intersection crashes, there is no consensus on their effectiveness. The
Wisconsin DOT Bureau of Highway Operations asked us to gather a sampling of research studies and other
documentation that objectively examine the safety effects of rumble strips installed on the approaches to rural
intersections.
Summary
We located a number of relevant research studies published by State DOTs and Academia and the Transportation
Research Board. Overall, the results of these studies indicate that rumble strips installed on the approaches to rural
intersections can cause drivers to reduce speed earlier and to a greater extent, and can significantly reduce the types
of accidents most susceptible to correction by rumble strips, including rear-end collisions and frontal impact crashes.
In simulator tests, rumble strips also slowed the approach speed of commercial drivers. In one study that we located,
researchers concluded that rumble strips were not successful at reducing approach speeds for the data analyzed, and
some negative impacts (speed increases) were recorded following the installation of rumble strips. Potential pitfalls
that have been associated with the installation of rumble strips in the traveled way include inappropriate motorist
responses such as using the opposing lanes to drive around the strips, and loss of control by motorcyclists and
bicyclists.
QUOTE
Traffic Crash Experience Despite the incompleteness in the crash evaluation designs, the results from the literature indicate
that transverse rumble strips can be effective in reducing crashes. Previous researchers have indicated
that despite the lack of rigor in the experimental designs, transverse rumble strips should still be
considered at locations where rear-end crashes and ran-stop-sign crashes, involving lack of driver
attention, are prevalent (5).
Stop-Sign Compliance
Rumble strips have been evaluated as to their effectiveness of inducing compliance with traffic control
devices. The location studies included stop-controlled intersections at T and four-way intersections. The
criteria studied were if drivers made a full stop, made a partial (rolling) stop, or did not stop. The results
indicated that drivers made significantly more full stops in the post-treatment period than in the pretreatment
period. The percentage change in full stops between the before and after cases ranged from 4 to
30 percent.
Effect on Vehicle Speed
The objective of speed-related studies has been to determine if transverse rumble strips had an effect on
vehicle speed on approaches to intersections, roundabouts and other roadway junctions. Utilizing beforeand-
after study designs, the previous research indicates that transverse rumble strips result in a small
reduction (1.6 kph to 6.4 kph) (1 to 4 mph) in vehicle speeds.
that transverse rumble strips can be effective in reducing crashes. Previous researchers have indicated
that despite the lack of rigor in the experimental designs, transverse rumble strips should still be
considered at locations where rear-end crashes and ran-stop-sign crashes, involving lack of driver
attention, are prevalent (5).
Stop-Sign Compliance
Rumble strips have been evaluated as to their effectiveness of inducing compliance with traffic control
devices. The location studies included stop-controlled intersections at T and four-way intersections. The
criteria studied were if drivers made a full stop, made a partial (rolling) stop, or did not stop. The results
indicated that drivers made significantly more full stops in the post-treatment period than in the pretreatment
period. The percentage change in full stops between the before and after cases ranged from 4 to
30 percent.
Effect on Vehicle Speed
The objective of speed-related studies has been to determine if transverse rumble strips had an effect on
vehicle speed on approaches to intersections, roundabouts and other roadway junctions. Utilizing beforeand-
after study designs, the previous research indicates that transverse rumble strips result in a small
reduction (1.6 kph to 6.4 kph) (1 to 4 mph) in vehicle speeds.
QUOTE
CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMENDATIONS
The objective of this research was to determine if the presence of rumble strips affected driver behavior
and resulted in a more uniform deceleration pattern. A more uniform deceleration pattern would indicate
that drivers had been more adequately aware of upcoming decision points and better suited to make
decisions. The results of previous research have produced varied results. Previous research has reported a
statistically significant reduction in speed; however, the reduction in speed has been of the magnitude of 3
to 8 kph (2 to 5 mph), which may not be practically significant.
Recommendations for Further Research
The primary goal of the study was to determine if drivers applied a more uniform deceleration profile
after the advent of rumble strips. An additional measure of evaluation to help determine the effectiveness
of rumble strips on deceleration may be to measure the location where vehicles begin to decelerate. The
use of LIDAR equipment may help to generate more accurate speed profiles and give a more accurate
deceleration profile. LIDAR technology is able to track vehicles through the study approach more
accurately and does not depend on uniform deceleration between speed trap locations.
A more direct measure of the effectiveness of the rumble strips would be to perform a long-term
study dealing with crashes, crash rates, or stop-sign compliance at the sites. A benefit-cost analysis of
transverse rumble strips would be helpful in determining a proper course of action during planning stages
for treatment options. The benefit-cost analysis could incorporate the results from a long-term crash
study involving transverse rumble strips.
The primary objective of a warning device is to help to prevent crashes. Although the data do not
support an overall reduction in speeds, previous literature reports reductions in crashes.
Due to the minimal purchase and installation cost (estimated to be $780 per study approach) and the high value of life, $2.7 million (18), rumble strips should still be considered as a traffic control device at stop-controlled intersections. < Rumble Strip Study >
The objective of this research was to determine if the presence of rumble strips affected driver behavior
and resulted in a more uniform deceleration pattern. A more uniform deceleration pattern would indicate
that drivers had been more adequately aware of upcoming decision points and better suited to make
decisions. The results of previous research have produced varied results. Previous research has reported a
statistically significant reduction in speed; however, the reduction in speed has been of the magnitude of 3
to 8 kph (2 to 5 mph), which may not be practically significant.
Recommendations for Further Research
The primary goal of the study was to determine if drivers applied a more uniform deceleration profile
after the advent of rumble strips. An additional measure of evaluation to help determine the effectiveness
of rumble strips on deceleration may be to measure the location where vehicles begin to decelerate. The
use of LIDAR equipment may help to generate more accurate speed profiles and give a more accurate
deceleration profile. LIDAR technology is able to track vehicles through the study approach more
accurately and does not depend on uniform deceleration between speed trap locations.
A more direct measure of the effectiveness of the rumble strips would be to perform a long-term
study dealing with crashes, crash rates, or stop-sign compliance at the sites. A benefit-cost analysis of
transverse rumble strips would be helpful in determining a proper course of action during planning stages
for treatment options. The benefit-cost analysis could incorporate the results from a long-term crash
study involving transverse rumble strips.
The primary objective of a warning device is to help to prevent crashes. Although the data do not
support an overall reduction in speeds, previous literature reports reductions in crashes.
Due to the minimal purchase and installation cost (estimated to be $780 per study approach) and the high value of life, $2.7 million (18), rumble strips should still be considered as a traffic control device at stop-controlled intersections. < Rumble Strip Study >
Posted by Madd Max on Jan. 03 2008,1:15 pm
(MADDOG @ Jan. 03 2008,10:03 am)
QUOTE
[
Due to the minimal purchase and installation cost (estimated to be $780 per study approach) and the high value of life, $2.7 million (18), rumble strips should still be considered as a traffic control device at stop-controlled intersections.[/b] < Rumble Strip Study >
[/quote]Due to the minimal purchase and installation cost (estimated to be $780 per study approach) and the high value of life, $2.7 million (18), rumble strips should still be considered as a traffic control device at stop-controlled intersections.[/b] < Rumble Strip Study >
Posted by ICU812 on Jan. 03 2008,3:19 pm
The damn things are so common sense that it drives me mad that the county does not use them or think they are effective.A guy drives down the road and you here a loud vibration he will:
A. Hear it and hit the brakes and see what is around
or
B. Hear it hit the gas and go and not pay attention to anything.
Give me a break...
Posted by hymiebravo on Jan. 03 2008,4:03 pm
Did anybody here ever see those musical "rumble strips" they're using/trying/testing in Korea ? I think I saw it on GMA or something.
They had been having some problems with accidents on some mountain laden/terrain type approaches. So they were using them there.
The emitted sound of the rumble to the inside of each vehicle was "Mary Had a Little Lamb"(or something similar)...and I think if the driver of the vehicle was going the speed they deemed to be safe... then it had a sort of "flow" to it if you will and it sounded accurate/correct.
Which in turn...would keep the drivers going along at the right/safe speed into the problem areas.
Or so it was therorized by those who came up with the idea I guess.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 19 2009,10:54 am
I see Mike Lee wrote a letter to the editor in todays paper on this subject. Mike and I talked a little about this after the board meeting on Tuesday and I wanted to show the link to the story here.< Rumble strips save lives of motorists >
Thanks for the letter Mike. I know the strips near my place have either been disappearing as roads are resurfaced or they are not mantained and are wearing thin.
Perhaps some day, Sue Miller will come to the realization that whether the studies are inconclusive or not on rumble strips, if there is even a chance they save one life, they are worth it.
Posted by gljoefan on Jun. 19 2009,11:26 am
(MADDOG @ Jun. 19 2009,10:54 am)
QUOTE
I see Mike Lee wrote a letter to the editor in todays paper on this subject. Mike and I talked a little about this after the board meeting on Tuesday and I wanted to show the link to the story here.
< Rumble strips save lives of motorists >
Thanks for the letter Mike. I know the strips near my place have either been disappearing as roads are resurfaced or they are not mantained and are wearing thin.
Perhaps some day, Sue Miller will come to the realization that whether the studies are inconclusive or not on rumble strips, if there is even a chance they save one life, they are worth it.
< Rumble strips save lives of motorists >
Thanks for the letter Mike. I know the strips near my place have either been disappearing as roads are resurfaced or they are not mantained and are wearing thin.
Perhaps some day, Sue Miller will come to the realization that whether the studies are inconclusive or not on rumble strips, if there is even a chance they save one life, they are worth it.
Why do we care what Sue Miller thinks? The Board should just require them....end of story.
Posted by Pretzel Logic on Jun. 19 2009,11:59 am
(gljoefan @ Jun. 19 2009,11:26 am)
QUOTE
Why do we care what Sue Miller thinks?
The gal does not impress me. It could be that her hands are tied in a lot of things by all the differing governing boards that she has to deal with. Perhaps any one could do no better or worse. Hired positions should not be allowed to let their personal thoughts influence the/any decision. She was not voted into that position for her guidance. She is hired help. To do the Will of the People.
I saw her on one of the county meetings once on TV awhile ago. I think the only people in the room were the commisioners, her, Harrig, Maddog and Mike Lee. They were talking about the "Bridge St. Corridor" she was saying something about having to do a study of turtles that would be affected.
The only turtles I see on Bridge St. that impede the flow of traffic generally are two species, some have gray hair and drive blue Buicks and some have blue hair and drive gray Buicks.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 19 2009,12:08 pm
A few of the past board member have followed her recommendations fully on most things. After all, she is a specialist in her field. Perhaps that could change now, but if you would ever spend time in the board meetings, you would see how she has a tendency to manipulate things to work out only as she desires.And I might add, that if she doesn't get the boards approval, she sometimes just does them anyway. Even if its under the table when she is told no.
Posted by Spidey on Jun. 19 2009,12:46 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 19 2009,12:08 pm)
QUOTE
A few of the past board member have followed her recommendations fully on most things. After all, she is a specialist in her field. Perhaps that could change now, but if you would ever spend time in the board meetings, you would see how she has a tendency to manipulate things to work out only as she desires.
And I might add, that if she doesn't get the boards approval, she sometimes just does them anyway. Even if its under the table when she is told no.
And I might add, that if she doesn't get the boards approval, she sometimes just does them anyway. Even if its under the table when she is told no.
Those comments are pretty direct MADDOG ... coming from you it's very telling. I know you are not one to make comments like this unless it is true, or you believe it to be true.
What is needed from the people to monitor her actions or change things? More attendees at the meetings? Sometimes I think the people in this county feel like their hands are tide. How many times have people voiced their opinion only to be ignored.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 19 2009,1:16 pm
It's nice of you noticing, Spidey. 
You're right though. She is not an elected official so you have to be a little careful what is said or printed.
I could tell you a few things. Just not here, not now.
Posted by danbelshan on Jun. 19 2009,1:23 pm
I brought this topic back up at our last two meetings because of the high number of accidents at stop signs.The County has been removing rumble strips as county roads have been repaired and deaths have ocurred at two of those intersections.
Our meetings are now on the web
< http://www.co.freeborn.mn.us/commissioners/video/default.aspx >
I want to thank Mike Lee for researching and sending me the latest DOT study that supports this traffic safety device.
Here is the latest research from MNDOT which supports the use on in lane rumble strips at dangerous intersections.
< http://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200642TS.pdf >
Posted by Common Citizen on Jun. 19 2009,1:41 pm
Seriously...if you can't see a stop sign at an intersection, should you really be on the road in the first place? Maybe we're addressing the wrong issue as it pertains to dangerous intersections.Just a thought.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 19 2009,2:57 pm
"I'm the poster girl for rumble strips--they've gotten my attention several times"--Sue Miller.Yet she opposed them because "They would have to be installed at EVERY stop sign, and we might be sued if anything happened at an intersection without them."
The quoted price to install/maintain them at each intersection was quoted at several hundred dollars a year. I think they could be cut into the pavement for a lot less.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 19 2009,5:14 pm
QUOTE
"They would have to be installed at EVERY stop sign, and we might be sued if anything happened at an intersection without them."
That's a crock and we all know it. Other county may have them on some, but not others.QUOTE
Seriously...if you can't see a stop sign at an intersection, should you really be on the road in the first place?
CC, there are a few intersections in the county where you cannot see them from a distance. Yes, there are stop ahead signs I hope at all of them, but in foggy conditions you may miss them, but YOU WILL feel the rumbles.Again, impaired or not, if a rumble strip saves one life....
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 19 2009,5:16 pm
One more note. As you can see from this thread. We have been after Sue since July 2004 for these.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 19 2009,6:18 pm
QUOTE
"They would have to be installed at EVERY stop sign, and we might be sued if anything happened at an intersection without them."
As I recall from the meeting, Dan Belshan called her out on that one. He came prepared, and when she came up with that, he responded with "I've been checking" and proceeded to name a number of counties--NONE of which had ever been sued for HAVING rumble strips. She couldn't come up with one either.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 19 2009,7:29 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 19 2009,5:16 pm)
QUOTE
One more note. As you can see from this thread. We have been after Sue since July 2004 for these.
That's plenty of time for deterioration of roads. It seems like the roads that get tarred in city are shot after about that long.
The curb, gutters, and sidewalk "upgrades" in some areas don't seem to look like they're on a pace to last as long as what they've replaced, either.
Good news for people in that business, bad news for the reluctant, basically have no choice, customers.
Posted by Pretzel Logic on Jun. 20 2009,1:16 pm
What is up with the Hawthorne St. Two years ago at fair time they redid the west end of Hawthorne and all the man hole covers are about 3 inches lower the the overlay, it is like trying to thread a tank trap. Who in the engineering or street dept. accepted this, are not these the high paid staff that we have. Gee someone did not notice that? Someone had to sign off on it to pay the bill. I'll bet everyone got paid too. I could see maybe missing one of them but that many? That person should be fired !
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,1:19 pm
Hymen QUOTE
That's plenty of time for deterioration of roads. It seems like the roads that get tarred in city are shot after about that long.
Hymen--Sue is the COUNTY engineer. Try to keep up with the class. 
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,3:09 pm
(jimhanson @ Jun. 20 2009,1:19 pm)
QUOTE
Hymen
QUOTE
That's plenty of time for deterioration of roads. It seems like the roads that get tarred in city are shot after about that long.
Hymen--Sue is the COUNTY engineer. Try to keep up with the class. Are you kidding me? One my favorite things about this forum is the way topics meander off into seemingly unrelated matters.
The recent ozone layer discussion; in the "abortion doctor murder thread" would be a rather recent example, that I found throughly amusing.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,3:19 pm
Nice try--but there is no mistaking the fact that you STATED that the City roads were being talked about, when in fact it was about the COUNTY engineer.Do people make this much fun of you in school, or are they truly your peers--equally dumb?
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,3:39 pm
Well in the realm of these so called, "rumble strips", aren't there issues surrounding, when they are implemented. Like whether they are retro-fitted or put in at the time of repair/reconstruction.
My point was after all that time perhaps retro-fitting wasn't really something needed to be considered.
Also pointing out sub-par road construction seemed pertinent as well. As there appears to be about one company that does all road repairs in the area, basically.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,4:01 pm
QUOTE
My point was after all that time perhaps retro-fitting wasn't really something needed to be considered.
LOOK at the rumble strips--or rumble stripes. They can be CUT IN to existing asphalt--no need to wait until the asphalt is laid in. It's a relatively simple operation. Maybe you could get a summer job while you are off from school.
Overlay the road? Cut in the new strips AGAIN. Not a big issue.
Now, if you want to have rumble strips in the CITY, that's a different office.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,4:13 pm
Well with seemingly poor quality road construction the whole road becomes a rumble strip. lol And G.I. Joe Fan told me that Albert Lea was in Freeborn County. When I asked about Freeborn County HWY vehicles that appeared to be engaged in some sort of activity on city streets.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,4:20 pm
QUOTE
And G.I. Joe Fan told me that Albert Lea was in Freeborn County, when I asked about Freeborn County HWY vehicles seemingly being engaging in some sort of activity on city streets.
There are CITY streets, and there are COUNTY roads. Some County roads (like Bridge Street) are within the City Limits. These roads tend to be major arterial roads. Rumble strips are usually placed before STOP signs. I don't know of any stop signs on Bridge Street.
Question: Do you live here? Are you familiar with the area?
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 20 2009,4:21 pm
There are some streets in town that are county maintained. They would be CSAH roads. Part of Richway and Bridge would be examples.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,4:40 pm
It seems like I have encountered rumble strips on shoulders as well.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,4:43 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,4:21 pm)
QUOTE
There are some streets in town that are county maintained. They would be CSAH roads. Part of Richway and Bridge would be examples.
This was at the Cenex Station on Margaretha, basically.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,4:44 pm
QUOTE
Question: Do you live here? Are you familiar with the area?
I'm not on a 30 year county commissioner campaign like you are.
Oops I looked at that wrong I thought MADDOG wrote that. lol
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 20 2009,4:58 pm
QUOTE
This was at the Cenex Station on Margaretha, basically.
That would be Co. Rd. 84.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 20 2009,5:09 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,4:58 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
This was at the Cenex Station on Margaretha, basically.
That would be Co. Rd. 84.
Okay, I was kind of expecting that after the explanation of the other roads.
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 20 2009,5:16 pm
Jim, you're going see me type this.QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
You would be correct. OK, I can't hold back.
You would be correct.QUOTE
Freeborn County, MN
County Project
CLOSING DATE: Thursday, June 4, 2009
ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS-
NOTICE is hereby given that SEALED PROPOSALS will be received until 10:00 AM on Thursday, June 4, 2009, by the Board of County Commissioners at the Office of the County Engineer, 3300 Bridge Ave, Albert Lea, MN 56007 , at which time the proposals will be opened. Proposals will be considered at the County Board meeting on <[Award Date]>, for the following project:
STATE AID PROJECT NO. SP 024-070-002
LOCATION: VARIOUS COUNTY STATE AID HIGHWAYS IN FREEBORN COUNTY, MN.
TYPE OF WORK: SAFETY ENHANCEMENTS
LENGTH: NA
The major items of work are approximately:
1.00 LUMP SUM of MOBILIZATION
27.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP 36"
16.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP 48"
35.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP AHEAD 48"
410.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN POST
7.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE DOUBLE ARROW 48" X 24"
35.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE JUNCTION AHEAD
35.00 EACH of PAVEMENT MESSAGE (STOP AHEAD) EPOXY-GROUND IN
450.00 LIN FT of 24" SOLID LINE WHITE-EPOXY (GROUND IN)
County Project
CLOSING DATE: Thursday, June 4, 2009
ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS-
NOTICE is hereby given that SEALED PROPOSALS will be received until 10:00 AM on Thursday, June 4, 2009, by the Board of County Commissioners at the Office of the County Engineer, 3300 Bridge Ave, Albert Lea, MN 56007 , at which time the proposals will be opened. Proposals will be considered at the County Board meeting on <[Award Date]>, for the following project:
STATE AID PROJECT NO. SP 024-070-002
LOCATION: VARIOUS COUNTY STATE AID HIGHWAYS IN FREEBORN COUNTY, MN.
TYPE OF WORK: SAFETY ENHANCEMENTS
LENGTH: NA
The major items of work are approximately:
1.00 LUMP SUM of MOBILIZATION
27.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP 36"
16.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP 48"
35.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE STOP AHEAD 48"
410.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN POST
7.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE DOUBLE ARROW 48" X 24"
35.00 EACH of INSTALL SIGN TYPE JUNCTION AHEAD
35.00 EACH of PAVEMENT MESSAGE (STOP AHEAD) EPOXY-GROUND IN
450.00 LIN FT of 24" SOLID LINE WHITE-EPOXY (GROUND IN)
I wonder if this is why Belshan brought this topic came up at the June 2 meeting? It should be in the minutes, but they haven't been posted yet. Guess I'll have to solve the problem in getting them quicker.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,5:24 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,5:16 pm)
QUOTE
Jim, you're going see me type this.
You would be correct.
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
You would be correct. OK, I can't hold back. You would be correct.That's OK, MADDOG, the kid got it right.
"Every now and then, a blind squirrel finds an acorn."
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 20 2009,5:40 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,5:16 pm)
QUOTE
Jim, you're going see me type this.
You would be correct.
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
You would be correct. OK, I can't hold back. You would be correct.That's OK, MADDOG, the kid got it right.
"Every now and then, a blind squirrel finds an acorn."
EDITED: HOLD THE HAPPINESS!
I knew that Clark Street was City--not county.
According to the County map, County 22 ends just before the channel. null< My Webpage >
"Upon Further Review," it appears that Hymen's unbroken string of getting things wrong remains INTACT!
Posted by Madd Max on Jun. 20 2009,7:03 pm
Here is a little more infoCall Attention to the Intersection by Installing Rumble Strips on Intersection Approaches
WHERE TO USE
Approaches to unsignalized intersections with traffic control devices that are not currently being recognized by some approaching motorists. Locations should be identified by patterns of crashes related to lack of driver recognition of the traffic control device (e.g., right-angle crashes related to stop sign violations). Rumble strips should be considered only after an adequate trial of less intrusive treatments
DETAILS
Rumble strips can be installed on intersection approaches to call attention to the presence of the intersection and to the traffic control in use at the intersection. Rumble strips should be used sparingly. Their effectiveness is dependent on being unusual.
KEY TO SUCCESS
Use rumble strips sparingly so that they retain their surprise value in gaining the driver's attention.
COSTS: Low
Costs to implement rumble strips would normally be nominal.
EFFECTIVENESS
TRIED: Rumble strips are generally perceived to be effective in reducing intersection crashes when used appropriately, but there is no consensus on their effectiveness. One study concluded that transverse rumble strips may decrease overall crashes by up to 28% and rear-end crashes by up to 90%. Another study indicated that rumble strips installed in rural locations can decrease overall crashes up to 35%.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 24 2009,8:29 pm
(jimhanson @ Jun. 20 2009,5:40 pm)
QUOTE
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,5:16 pm)
QUOTE
Jim, you're going see me type this.
You would be correct.
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
You would be correct. OK, I can't hold back. You would be correct.That's OK, MADDOG, the kid got it right.
"Every now and then, a blind squirrel finds an acorn."
EDITED: HOLD THE HAPPINESS!
I knew that Clark Street was City--not county.
According to the County map, County 22 ends just before the channel. null< My Webpage >
"Upon Further Review," it appears that Hymen's unbroken string of getting things wrong remains INTACT!
Clark Street?
It would appear that, "the jimmy" is continuing his role as the coyote.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 24 2009,8:36 pm
QUOTE
Clark Street?
That's right, sonny--Bridge street turns into Clark Street when it turns the corner. I intially agreed with MADDOG--and even gave you credit for getting something right for a change. Upon further review, I knew that Clark Street was City--so the County road couldn't POSSIBLY extend as far as Broadway--as MADDOG mentioned.
A check of the map showed that the County road ended on North Side.
Your record of getting things wrong remains unblemished!
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 24 2009,9:50 pm
QUOTE
That's right, sonny--Bridge street turns into Clark Street when it turns the corner.
The only problem is is that neither of those streets were mentioned.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 24 2009,9:54 pm
Well actually in the case of the Albertlea.com Conservative Coaltion, there are a plethora of issues regarding being wrong/problems. So slight misnomer there regarding the word "only".
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 25 2009,3:11 pm
(hymiebravo @ Jun. 24 2009,9:50 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
That's right, sonny--Bridge street turns into Clark Street when it turns the corner.
The only problem is is that neither of those streets were mentioned.
Bridge doesn't CROSS Broadway, does it, dummy? Bridge street turns into Clark at the corner--it doesn't cross Broadway at all.
QUOTE
This was at the Cenex Station on Margaretha, basically.
And the County road doesn't extend to the CENEX station at Margaretha.
I TRIED to give you credit for getting one right for a change, but you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory at the end. Your record of consecutive errors remains unbroken--an inspiration to libbies EVERYWHERE!
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,4:08 pm
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
I just simply didn't read young hymie's question right. As you can see on the map provided earlier by Jim, the county road turns off at Marshall. However, it seems to me that the county's responsibility either ends at Richway or becomes divided between the city and county at that point. The sewer lines under the street are the city's. I'd have to get out the bridge corridor study and county minutes to be sure.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 25 2009,7:42 pm
Either way, it still leaves young Hymen wrong!
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 25 2009,9:17 pm
I just read this and the only people in this discussion that mentioned Bridge were you two republitards.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jun. 25 2009,9:36 pm
People more observant and smarter than the city engineer decided that these things would enhance safety. It goes against conventional wisdom to change this, now.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,10:40 pm
(Liberal @ Jun. 25 2009,9:17 pm)
QUOTE
I just read this and the only people in this discussion that mentioned Bridge were you two republitards.
Do you enjoy trying to twist everything around? Unless a person actually goes back to challenge your post, they might actually go along and agree with your name calling.
Here's a chronology of the word bridge used this year in this thread.
First Pretzel Logic mentioned seeing me on TV at a board meeting when the board and Miller were discussing the Bridge Street Corridor.
QUOTE
Pretzel logic june 19
I saw her on one of the county meetings once on TV awhile ago. I think the only people in the room were the commisioners, her, Harrig, Maddog and Mike Lee. They were talking about the "Bridge St. Corridor" she was saying something about having to do a study of turtles that would be affected.
The only turtles I see on Bridge St. that impede the flow of traffic generally are two species, some have gray hair and drive blue Buicks and some have blue hair and drive gray Buicks.
Then I mention we've been discussing rumble strip since 2004. I saw her on one of the county meetings once on TV awhile ago. I think the only people in the room were the commisioners, her, Harrig, Maddog and Mike Lee. They were talking about the "Bridge St. Corridor" she was saying something about having to do a study of turtles that would be affected.
The only turtles I see on Bridge St. that impede the flow of traffic generally are two species, some have gray hair and drive blue Buicks and some have blue hair and drive gray Buicks.
hymie replies
QUOTE
Hymiebravo june 20
That's plenty of time for deterioration of roads. It seems like the roads that get tarred in city are shot after about that long.
Notice hymie now mentions city roads.That's plenty of time for deterioration of roads. It seems like the roads that get tarred in city are shot after about that long.
Now try to keep this in context Liberal.
Pretzel said they saw me when the county was discussing Bridge Street. Hymie follows by mentioning city streets but he's following the issue back to rumble strips.
Rumble strips aren't used in town. Period. You and I both know it.
Jim counters Hymie by admonishing him
QUOTE
Jimhanson june 20
There are CITY streets, and there are COUNTY roads. Some County roads (like Bridge Street) are within the City Limits. These roads tend to be major arterial roads. Rumble strips are usually placed before STOP signs. I don't know of any stop signs on Bridge Street.
Then I go on to explain There are CITY streets, and there are COUNTY roads. Some County roads (like Bridge Street) are within the City Limits. These roads tend to be major arterial roads. Rumble strips are usually placed before STOP signs. I don't know of any stop signs on Bridge Street.
QUOTE
MADDOG june 20
There are some streets in town that are county maintained. They would be CSAH roads. Part of Richway and Bridge would be examples.
There are some streets in town that are county maintained. They would be CSAH roads. Part of Richway and Bridge would be examples.
Yeah, I could go on. You're mostly right. Outside of Pretzel, Jim and I are the only ones to actually type the word "bridge." Solely because Hymie quoted every time Bridge Street was needed in his posts.
Anyone can go back and reread the last four pages and know what hymie was reffering to.
You and I make a good team sometimes don't we.
You twist and I poke.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 25 2009,10:46 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 25 2009,4:08 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
I just simply didn't read young hymie's question right. As you can see on the map provided earlier by Jim, the county road turns off at Marshall. However, it seems to me that the county's responsibility either ends at Richway or becomes divided between the city and county at that point. The sewer lines under the street are the city's. I'd have to get out the bridge corridor study and county minutes to be sure.I told you the location where I saw the County HWY vehicles.
Then you gave me, what you were claiming, was the number of the county road represented there. I stated/wrote/replied/returned with; that I suppose it ceases being designated a county road when it crossed Broadway.
What is so hard to "get"?
Are you sure the posted sinage along that road squares with your original claim about its identity?
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,10:53 pm
QUOTE
I suppose it ceases being designated a county road when it crossed Broadway.
And from the north going south, Bridge/CSAH 22 ceases at Marshall. Then CSAH 22 turns left to East Main/Hwy 69 where it ends.
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 25 2009,11:05 pm
(hymiebravo @ Jun. 20 2009,5:09 pm)
QUOTE
(MADDOG @ Jun. 20 2009,4:58 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
This was at the Cenex Station on Margaretha, basically.
That would be Co. Rd. 84.
Okay, I was kind of expecting that after the explanation of the other roads.
I suppose it ceases to have that distinction when it crosses Broadway?
Notice he didn't say Bridge he said Margeretha, the road that crosses s. Broadway on the other side of town with a Cenex on it.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jun. 25 2009,11:16 pm
It seems more of a matter of being hypocritical to me. The supposed original admonishment is placed there just to attack me. Which is silly. As I pointed in this thread. There is a lot of thread drift on this board period.
I gave an example; the ozone talk that was happening in the Abortion Doctor Murder Thread. I also pointed out that that doesn't bother me.
And then this other BS ensues.
The subject of road repair and deterioration isn't that far removed from the discussion. IMO
One other person brings up some valid concerns that are tax payer/road related issues.
And that can't be validated or discussed. And heaven forbid somebody else bring up a similar concern at that point.
Because it's all about you guys making your preposterous, asinine claims at this point. Even though none of them even make sense.
And then Lapdog makes that claim he read it wrong?
Paired with the continued baseless name calling by " the jimmy".
When I never even mentioned Bridge Street.
No wonder lapdog & the jimmy have been dubbed replitards.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,11:30 pm
(Liberal @ Jun. 25 2009,11:05 pm)
QUOTE
Notice he didn't say Bridge he said Margeretha, the road that crosses s. Broadway on the other side of town with a Cenex on it.
Ok, show me where Margaretha and s. Broadway cross then? Or was that a typo?
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 25 2009,11:36 pm
It was a typo, I'm pretty sure you know where Margeretha crosses Broadway, and I'll bet you feel really stupid right now for listening to the jimmy.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,11:37 pm
(hymiebravo @ Jun. 25 2009,11:16 pm)
QUOTE
And then Lapdog makes that claim he read it wrong?
Paired with the continued baseless name calling by " the jimmy".
When I never even mentioned Bridge Street.
No wonder lapdog & the jimmy have been dubbed replitards.
Paired with the continued baseless name calling by " the jimmy".
When I never even mentioned Bridge Street.
No wonder lapdog & the jimmy have been dubbed replitards.
You two really are a couple of pieces of work. We were discussing your question of when CSAH 22 (which is mostly Bridge while it is within the city limits) crossed Broadway. Go back and read it.
I think I've seldom came to the sort of name calling you two do.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,11:40 pm
(Liberal @ Jun. 25 2009,11:36 pm)
QUOTE
It was a typo, I'm pretty sure you know where Margeretha crosses Broadway, and I'll bet you feel really stupid right now for listening to the jimmy.
Yeah, I know where S.E. Broadway crosses Margaretha.
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 26 2009,12:05 am
You remind me of this friend that went to this motorcycle racing school. My friend got a chance to race at the school and during one of his races he was running pretty much in last place when it started to rain. The race official waved the flag to tell the riders to get off the track, and my friend didn't see it. So he started passing the other riders like they were standing still, and in one lap he was so far in the lead that he couldn't even see another rider in his rear view mirror.Not wanting to risk giving up his first place position he went even faster until he inevitably put his bike on it's side at over 100mph.
He wasn't hurt racing with himself, but he felt a little foolish for crashing while racing with himself.
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 26 2009,12:44 am
QUOTE
You two really are a couple of pieces of work.
How do you figure that we're somehow a team? I just read the topic and saw where the jimmy's train of thought jumped the tracks.
QUOTE
We were discussing your question of when CSAH 22 (which is mostly Bridge while it is within the city limits) crossed Broadway. Go back and read it.
No you and Hymie were clearly talking Margaretha and where it crossed Broadway, and you even gave him the County road number.
At that point the jimmy agreed with you, but then went back end edited his post to say that Bridge turns into Clark so Hymie was wrong. Go back and read and you'll see the very the very next response from Hymie was asking what Clark St. had to with it.
QUOTE
I think I've seldom came to the sort of name calling you two do.
Don't worry, in the David Letterman topic "the jimmy" said it was okay to call him that.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 26 2009,11:03 am
QUOTE
It was a typo, I'm pretty sure you know where Margeretha crosses Broadway, and I'll bet you feel really stupid right now for listening to the jimmy.
Where did I say that? I told Hymen that there were CITY roads, and there are COUNTY roads.
I told him that the COUNTY road didn't extend beyond North Side--but didn't reference the street.
I mentioned that Bridge turns into Clark.
I mentioned that Bridge does not cross Broadway.
What is erroneous in these statements?
And from those statements, you consistently duck, bob, spin, and twist.
It is one thing to put out an opinion, and back it up. That's what Forums DO. You've moved beyond that into pure hatred and spin. MADDOG went to the effort to put together a chronology--and you went spinning off in a high-speed wobble.
One too many trips over the top of the bicycle handle bars?
SEVERAL people have expressed concern for what has happened to you. I hope it all works out for you. Send me a PM when you are feeling better.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 26 2009,11:53 am
(jimhanson @ Jun. 26 2009,11:03 am)
QUOTE
One too many trips over the top of the bicycle handle bars? SEVERAL people have expressed concern for what has happened to you. I hope it all works out for you. Send me a PM when you are feeling better.
SEVERAL people have expressed concern for what has happened to you. I hope it all works out for you. Send me a PM when you are feeling better.Oooh ouch. low blow.
Posted by Liberal on Jun. 26 2009,12:13 pm
QUOTE
Where did I say that?
I told Hymen that there were CITY roads, and there are COUNTY roads.
I told him that the COUNTY road didn't extend beyond North Side--but didn't reference the street.
I mentioned that Bridge turns into Clark.
I mentioned that Bridge does not cross Broadway.
What is erroneous in these statements?
You left out the part where you accussed Hymie of being wrong because Bridge doesn't cross Broadway. Where you were wrong is Hymie never said that, he said that Margeretha crosses Broadway.
Then you were too busy laughing at your own joke to go back and read the topic to see that Hymie wasn't talking about bridge.
,
If anyone should be calling when they get better it would you. You seem to have gone completely nuts when a black liberal became president, you've done nothing but attack the liberals and call them names every time they post.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 26 2009,2:38 pm
QUOTE
You seem to have gone completely nuts when a black liberal became president, you've done nothing but attack the liberals and call them names every time they post.
AND, LIBERAL PULLS OUT..........THE RACE CARD! Where did I say anything about Obambi being black--or mocking him for being black? He IS half white, you know.
No, my problem with him is that he is FAR-FAR left--maybe even farther than you.
The man is naive (how many times have you heard me articulate that?)--he never ran anything so much as a candy store.
He has no experience in foreign policy--and it shows.
He has no experience in finance--and it REALLY shows.
He DOES have experience in surrounding himself with the far, far left--THAT shows.
The man is arrogant--he wrote two memoirs before he ACCOMPLISHED anything.
He is NOT a good public speaker, as evidenced by his stumbling in the absence of a teleprompter.
He is NOT good at surrounding himself with good people, as evidenced by his gaffes and mis-steops in selecting administrators.
He over-promises and under-delivers, as evidenced by his understatement of unemployment, and his miscalculation and understatement of costs.
He has an agenda of nationalizing our industry, financial institutions, and health care--so much so that even Hugo Chavez quipped "Comrade Fidel, we must look out, we are to the right of Obama!" and Newsweek published a cover that says "We are all socialists, now."
He has gutted the military to help pay for his social programs--cutting the F-22, and in a particularly stupid decision, cut back on missile defense on the same day as North Korea fired its long-range missile.
Other than THAT, he's a fine fellow!
As far as attacking liberals--is that anything different than you did to President Bush?
As far as attacking liberals--they ARE the party that is putting forth their legislative agenda, are they not? Are we supposed to just ACCEPT their crazy ideas?
Are not liberals the ACTIVIST party--constantly plumping for more government involvement and more spending?
The only reason that talk radio and TV not only EXIST, but PROSPER, is that liberals continue to provide goofy and unworkable ideas. How long do you suppose late-night comics could work in a news vacuum?
I have fun mocking liberals--who uses the laugh emoticons more than I? Libbies rarely attempt to defend their position--usually, because they lack conviction.I tolerate libbies well--UNTIL they try to get into our pocketbooks and freedoms and to change our way of life. At that point, I will defend.
Yes, politics has become polarized--but it is not because people TALK about politics, but because the populace has become so dumbed-down that people talk only in sound-bites--NOT discussing issues.
Let me know when you feel up to discussing issues again. You might try Hoosier, and see what medicine worked for HIM.
Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 26 2009,5:09 pm
Anyway, about the rumble strips.
Posted by Madd Max on Jun. 26 2009,5:43 pm
(MADDOG @ Jun. 26 2009,5:09 pm)
QUOTE
Anyway, about the rumble strips.
I agree
Here is something interesting
South Dakota road crews using rumble strips
South Dakota motorists will hear and feel more bumps on the road this summer.
The state Department of Transportation has started putting temporary rumble strips down in construction zones in hopes of cutting down on the number of rear-end accidents
Such crashes are common when traffic slows and bunches up in work zones.
The bumps are usually intended to warn drivers of an oncoming stop sign
Posted by Madd Max on Nov. 23 2009,9:16 am
Why wasn't shoulder rumble strips put in where they worked on I-90 this summer?
Posted by hot84svo on Nov. 23 2009,11:36 am
Why did Minnesota not adopted the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's regulations into state law that would allow State Troopers to enforce federal law on state roadways for the last SIX years?
Posted by gljoefan on Nov. 23 2009,5:19 pm
(Madd Max @ Nov. 23 2009,9:16 am)
QUOTE
Why wasn't shoulder rumble strips put in where they worked on I-90 this summer?
That is a good question. Are they added at the same time or are they added after? Maybe they are still coming?
Posted by ICU812 on Jul. 31 2012,2:31 pm
I see we have rumble strips in place around the county...