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| Post Number: 21
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cpu_slave 
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 12 2004,9:54 am |
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| Quote | | I believe that 'all or none' means that rumble strips would be placed at 'all' intersections with STOP signs, or at 'none'...no place. |
and what exactly made you think that I did not understand what ‘all or none’ means? Was there something unclear in my post about this? Besides, do you think that they were put in at certain intersections for a reason to begin with? Perhaps they had higher than average rates of accidents or near-misses so it was decided to put them in decades ago for a reason?
| Quote | | Traffic signage is not the same issue as rumble strips. Period. |
My understanding is that rumble strips are used to notify motorists of an upcoming stop sign. Can you name another reason they are used?
| Quote | | I don't think that rumble strips have never really been an accepted standard, have they? |
They have been used in places where there was already an existing stop sign and traffic accidents were still higher than normal. Fact is- they do save lives so perhaps they should be made a standard in places where traffic accidents occur at a higher than normal rate. This is practicing the seemingly forgotten art of common sense thinking, but the county engineer still thinks it should be all or none with nothing in-between.
| Quote | | Signs have standard applications...driven by State and Federal POLICY (yes, policy). Unfortunately, policies ARE needed, and Miller is correct in stating so. |
So why is she not working on proposing a policy? Why is she instead making the decision herself to remove them before there is even a policy?
| Quote | | People still disobey signs too and 'run' intersections anyway, don't they? |
Some perhaps intentionally, but some are also unintentional. Are you using the Miller school of thought here and trying to say that everyone who runs through an intersection is doing so intentionally?
| Quote | | There were stoplights out by home depot where the biker got mashed. Were there any non-standard traffic control devices? Were there any rumble strips? |
What would you consider standard vs. non-standard? As for rumble strips, have they ever been used to notify motorists of an upcoming traffic light? I thought there standard use was to notify of an upcoming stop sign?
| Quote | | Perhaps 'common sense' also means thinking before lashing out? |
Might I suggest practicing what you preach?
| Quote | if we put them in certain areas is accident history, approach,and other valid safety reasons to insure our defense if sued.
No mention of all or none policy that is being touted. |
This is the sort of common sense thinking I am talking about- no all or none, just putting them in places where they would help. Like I stated before, I believe there was a reason they were put in places where they are\were for a REASON- removing them without actually knowing why they were there in the first place is not thinking at all now is it?
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 22
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danbelshan
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 12 2004,5:52 pm |
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Just got back from an interesting weekend in Rapid City S.D.
Yesterday evening we were coming back to Rapid going east on State Highway 44 about four miles out of town coming down a hill when we drove over, heard, and felt a rumble strip in our lane. We didn't remember a stop sign or any rumble strips on the way out, but slowed immediately, and then saw why we were warned, a sharp curve to the right! If we'd sped over it we joked we would have "sailed right over" the cliff as Jimmy Durante did in "Mad Mad Mad Mad World."
This rumble strip did its job of warning a couple of tourists gawking at the scenery to be aware of danger. That was a new use to me, but it worked. (Note: not every curve on a hill had a rumble strip, and this was not an old road or an old rumble strip. Do you suppose SD will be on court TV someday because not every hill and curve had a strip? I doubt it.)
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Go to Dan Belshan on facebook to get the latest.
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| Post Number: 23
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The Rocket
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 12 2004,8:41 pm |
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You know the old saying, $h!t or get off the pot. From this forum the "all" sounds like it is not an option and "none" isn't either. So, Dan, make a reasonable motion to install rumble strips at locations that meet certain criteria. If you start with a very basic criteria it can always be tweaked. Then when it is voted down the forum and letters to the editor can light up. Does the county public works have the equipment to install them?
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| Post Number: 24
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danbelshan
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 12 2004,10:40 pm |
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Rocket: thanks, that's good advice.
I don't think our County has the hardware to grind rumble strips in. Other counties usually hire private contractors to install them quickly and fairly cheaply--Steele County told me they did it for about $300 per intersection.
I checked with our County insurance--no county brought into litigation had lost the case because of rumble strips as of the date I inquired.
Walter Wangen is a former County Commissioner for District 2. He came upon an accident years ago resulting in death when there were no rumble strips and spoke for rumble strips. The most recent death was at the same intersection after the rumble strips had been removed.
County Board Minutes Sept 15 2003
The Board began discussion of in-lane rumble strips. Highway Engineer Sue Miller stated that rumble strips were not considered a standard traffic control device. Ms. Miller has attended seminars in which it was strongly recommended not to use in lane rumble strips as a means of traffic control and uniformity is recommended to avoid potential litigation. Larger stop signs and stop ahead signs are recommended.
Commissioner Mullenbach offered the following motion:
MOVED, to accept Highway Engineer Sue Miller’s opinion not to install in-lane rumble strips. Motion seconded by Commissioner Springborg. Discussion was tabled, to be continued after the Shell Rock River Watershed update...
The discussion of in-lane rumble strips was resumed.
Jim Hanson, 73950 275th Street, Clarks Grove, does not feel that additional stop signs work.
Mr. Roger Bok, 1012 Cato Drive, Albert Lea, stated the Interstate uses rumble strips on the side and feels that rumble strips are beneficial and help when driving in the fog or a blizzard.
Walter Wangen, 23396 850th Avenue, Albert Lea, recollected various accidents and reasons he believes rumble strips would be beneficial.
After much discussion the motion was defeated 3-2, Commissioners Springborg, Belshan and Mathiason voting no, Commissioners Mullenbach and Behrends voting yes.
The vote not to install in lane rumble strips failed 3 to 2. After this motion failed I thought existing ones would NOT be taken out and the county would replace the ones that had already been removed. I was wrong. I thought the opposite of NOT to install was TO install. I guess I didn't know the meaning of not.
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Go to danbelshan.com for my newsletters.
Go to Dan Belshan on facebook to get the latest.
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| Post Number: 25
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The Rocket
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 13 2004,10:50 pm |
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Dan, in reading your report of the meeting it seems to me Mulenbach made a useless motion. It appears to be a motion to accept an opinion. It sets no policy or gives no direction to anyone. waste of time. Whether the motion was defeated or passed the out come is the same.
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| Post Number: 26
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2004,9:12 am |
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| Quote | Harder, Kathleen, College of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
Title: Reducing Crashes at Controlled Rural Intersections (2001008)
Sponsor: Minnesota Local Road Research Board
Abstract: This proposal is in response to the call of Mn/DOT and the Local Road Research Board, for innovative research on ways to improve safety at controlled rural intersections. Right angle crashes at these intersections are of significant concern. It is currently believed there are two types of problems at controlled rural intersections 1) Drivers do not stop, or 2) drivers stop and then pull out into oncoming traffic. The objective of Phase I (outlined in this proposal) of this project is to generate innovative ways in which to address and diminish these two sets of behavior with the overall goal of improving safety in these problem areas. We do not anticipate solving the problem in Phase I, but we do expect to make substantive progress toward facilitating creative resolutions to safety-related issues now present at rural intersections.
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| Quote | | There has to be a way to lessen these kind af accidents. [quote] more from Kathleen Harder |
The few existing case studies reveal that the data is not definitive in terms of whether or not rumble strips have a noticeable effect on stopping behavior at rural stop-controlled intersections; however, these studies were not well-controlled (e.g., the age, quality, and maintenance of the rumble strips in the case studies was not controlled for), so questions remain regarding the utility of rumble strips. It is the case that county engineers not infrequently find themselves in litigious situations because of the public’s perception that rumble strips are highly effective devices at problem rural-controlled intersections. On the other hand, rumble strips can become a liability because, once in place, they frequently are not properly maintained. A well-controlled empirical study that establishes guidelines for where to use rumble strips and where not to use them would be helpful to county engineers. It would give them more knowledge than they currently have regarding whether or not in-lane rumble strips should be part of the toolbox they apply to problem intersections. [quote] The biggest question being, do rumble strips alert drivers of stop signs at intersections..... he11 yes.
Edited by MADDOG on Jul. 18 2004,9:12 am
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 27
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2004,9:43 am |
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Rumble strips won't get you sued, but, not maintaining them will. So, we shouldn't be taking them out to avoid litigation, but, properly maintaining them to avoid litigation. The counties policy should be to leave them where they are and cut them back in after resurfacing and also ensure they are properly maintained between resurfacing (if you're worried about a lawsuit). And when considering maintaining them between resurfacing we also have to consider that according to MCIT no county has ever lost a lawsuit over rumble strips in this state.
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 28
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 03 2005,8:40 pm |
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This just occurred to me. I was at the folk in Iowa today. I take this route all the time.
Taking Winnebago County blacktop to Minnesota. I go to Rake, turn and go to Scarville, north to State line road and turn to Emmons. In Winnebago, I hit 2 stop signs and 1 T corner. Want to know what is at each one? Rumble strips!
Then on State Line Road about 1/2 way to Emmons, Freeborn County takes over. "Co. Rd. 60" 3 miles west of Emmons, you come over a hill and intersect with Co. Rd. 4 at the curve. Co. Rd. does not stop. Guess what I don't hit.
RUMBLE STRIPS
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS COUNTY ANYWAY. Why does the county resist these safety devises? Sure I know the road, but everyone would not. Looking for a fatality?
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 29
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truckwriter94
Group: Members
Posts: 133
Joined: Apr. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 05 2005,2:34 pm |
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As you all know from my name, I drive semis for a living. I can tell you rumble strips have saved my a$$ more than once. I don’t particularly care for the cross strips in front of semaphores because they vibrate my truck to high heaven. BUT, I believe they save lives because they’ve woken me up from daydreaming in time to deal with an intersection. I too, have seen cross strips ahead of curves and strongly agree with that plan of action.
Now, rumble strips on the side and center line have saved me and my truck quite a few times. I literally hate driving on I-35 in a blizzard. I mean, who wouldn’t, right? I’ve driven on that darn road when I couldn’t see past my wiper blades and just turned the wheel every time I felt the front end going into the ditch. (Obviously I’m not stupid. I just have a fire happy boss and can’t afford the house payment without this job.) Anyway, there are a few state highways that have the center and side strips because the roads are highly susceptible to blowing and drifting snow. I’m literally not afraid to drive on these roads in any weather condition. This means I’m a more calm driver and more likely to be capable of dealing with any given situation.
Someone needs to tell this woman to pull her head out and start talking to some professional drivers, not to mention the people who drive these county roads every day. Get this crap dealt with by hiring a contractor. Then start dealing with the fact that we need stop lights on Bridge ave around Hy-Vee and Shopko. That area is insanity waiting to happen. I’ve witnessed an accident out there. They’ve faked studies to get lights elsewhere. Why can’t they do it for places that really need it?
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PLAZE UZE YUR SPEL CHEK B4 POZTNG!
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain/ Well, excuse me while I pull my boot out of my mouth! Tw94 Hang up and Drive! I brake for tailgators.
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| Post Number: 30
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 05 2005,5:49 pm |
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There, Sue, you've heard it from someone who's not an advocate of the county.
Please use rumble strips.
If it costs $600 to maintain one, so what. What price could you possibly put on just one life?
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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