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| Post Number: 61
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LisaMarie 
Group: Members
Posts: 367
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,1:09 pm |
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| Quote (jimhanson @ Feb. 19 2004,12:52:pm) | | This brings up the prospect of police stationed in every school. Is THIS what we want? |
We already HAVE a cop stationed in the high school, the liason officer.
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Bush & Son - Sending America to war since 1990
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| Post Number: 62
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,1:15 pm |
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Wow Jim, nobody is saying that a teacher can't maintain order. They just can't use force to maintain order and they must abide by the constitution.
I'll bet you believe in corporal punishment(teachers spanking kids) don't you?
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 63
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,2:04 pm |
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Liberal--No, and you know better than that.
| Quote | | Nobody's saying the teachers are ASKING to take this on. If this is a big problem, have the school district remove the language--just as we asked the County Board to remove Rule 19. I'm sure the teachers won't be fighting to retain the responsibility. |
Why doesn't anyone comment on this? Is this so hard to understand? TEACHERS DON'T WANT THIS RESPONSIBILITY, especially in this litigious society.
Is this a big problem right now? No, I don't think so--you don't hear much about it. All we have is an allegation from a kid that says he was "grabbed"--an allegation that must be taken with a grain of salt (he also mentioned that this teacher "forced 10 kids to take breathalizer tests"--an allegation that he admitted was wrong). Any teacher charged with injuring a kid in the last, oh, TWO DECADES? NO? Any kid seeking treatment for injuries? NO? Any lawsuits filed? NO. When was the last instance of this EVER happening? HOW many years (if EVER?) That doesn't stop several of you who insist on condemning a teacher that was nominated by his students, by the kids parents, and by his peers. He must be doing SOMETHING right!
Maybe the detractors of this Forum are right--there are some really negative people out there.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 64
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,5:17 pm |
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Liberal--No, and you know better than that.
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No, I don't know better than that, a lot of people believe in corporal punishment and I figured if you believed in corporal punishment it would explain why you seem to think that it's ok for a teacher to put their hands on a student.
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Nobody's saying the teachers are ASKING to take this on. If this is a big problem, have the school district remove the language--just as we asked the County Board to remove Rule 19. I'm sure the teachers won't be fighting to retain the responsibility.
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What language would you like the school district to remove I don't think anyone knows what language you are talking about.
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Is this a big problem right now? No, I don't think so--you don't hear much about it.
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I wonder if that's because the kids don't report it because there is a chance some adults just won't believe them?
As far as being negative, I offered an opinion that the schools in general should treat kids and their parents complaints a little more seriously. Also that I think teachers should make it a point to always obey the constitution and give the kids the protection afforded them by it. How is that negative?
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 65
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,5:27 pm |
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| Quote (jimhanson @ Feb. 19 2004,2:04:pm) | | Maybe the detractors of this Forum are right--there are some really negative people out there. |
I think your going a little too far their, Jim. Their should atleast be a sarcasm smiley next to that statement.
As for what you just mentioned Liberal about taking it more complaints more seriously, I think they believe the accusations too often. Look how long it took for the kids in here to be confronted about their lieing, and exagerateing. I once heard a saying used by teacher's, "Don't believe EVERYTHING your kids say happens at school, and we won't believe EVERYTHING your kid says happens at home".
I'd disagree with you Tarzan about government worker's not supposed to be enforcer's. Look at a list of federal and some state agency's, most of them their whole job decription for employees is enforcing the rules set for that specific field. I can think of several agency's, that aren't cops, but thats what they do is enforce laws and safety regulations, OSHA, FAA, USDA just to name a few.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 66
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,5:36 pm |
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Absolutly the one of the dumbest things ever said on these forums.
"I'd disagree with you Tarzan about government worker's not supposed to be enforcer's."
You sir are an idiot!
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| Post Number: 67
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,7:29 pm |
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| Quote |
I once heard a saying used by teacher's, "Don't believe EVERYTHING your kids say happens at school, and we won't believe EVERYTHING your kid says happens at home".
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No way! You can't possibly be suggesting that every kid lies.
Personally, I believe everything my kids tell me and I still believe that the majority of children tell the truth and I would guess that nearly every young adult in highschool tells the truth.
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Look how long it took for the kids in here to be confronted about their lieing, and exagerateing.
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Why was this story picked apart in the first place? I don't remember any other post where the facts have been picked apart like that.
I honestly don't have an opinion about this particular incident and I really didn't even read what was said about the teacher that closely(I figure it's a matter for the kids parents to take up). What I was responding to was the people that were picking apart the kids story and those that seem to have no problem with a teacher violating a kids rights (if the stories were true). It seems like some even want me to believe that the teachers don't really want to violate the kids rights but they are required to by some school district mandate. 
If we want our kids to grow up to respect and understand the Constitution and the limits it imposes on govt. then they need to be taught the importance of it from the first day of school and chasing kids down the hall or sticking your hand in their pockets looking for contraband is no way to teach them about the limits of government.
It seems that everytime I post I get dragged deeper into this so I'm going to have to follow MrTarzan's lead and just agree to disagree because I doubt anyones opinion will be changed either way about this. (I know mine won't be anyways)
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 68
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,9:47 pm |
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Hear Hear Liberal, they are talking in circles now and I am getting dizzy  I also have stated I don't know if it is true, but the point is that they should not grab kids. I don't believe there is a policy to change because I don't believe that grabbing kids is written in any policy at all, though I admit in this weird climate of strange rules it is plausable. As far as OHSA, USDA and the FAA, they don't grab people either, they can however report them and turn them over for investigation and arrest, just the same as teachers can. The exception is the FAA also hires Air Marshalls, and they can grab you if it is warranted. 90% of FAA employees are examiners or technicians, (I did work with them), and they would never grab anyone. Maybe the USDA has Marshalls, but I don't think so or there would probably have been a movie or show about them busting some bad beef smugglers. I believe they would have to call the cops. OHSA, they have to bring a warrant to bring sheriffs in to shut you down. They don't have Marshalls either. I did not say that they could not enforce rules, where do you people keep getting that? Anyway, moving on is the best thing to do here because we obviously have people around that think teachers should be able to do anything to maintain order and I doubt those opinions will ever change. Even though I often think they go way too far, I sure am glad there is a civil liberties union willing to fight this kind of thinking. There is no excuse for teachers using force except to prevent harm, and I don't mean second hand smoke ;)
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 69
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2004,10:27 pm |
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| Quote | | I did not say that they couldn't enforce rules, where do you people keep getting that? |
Here, its on the end of page 6.
| Quote (MrTarzan @ Feb. 19 2004,12:52:pm) | | Working for the government does not make you any kind of an enforcer. |
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 70
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2004,9:46 am |
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I agree with Liberal and Mr. Tarzan--nobody's opinion will be changed, and I'm tired of the subject. Moving OFF SUBJECT though, in response to Mr. Tarzan's post about government agents not being enforcers--Mr. Tarzan brings up OSHA, USDA, and Air Marshalls for the FAA.
Did you know that ALL of these people are authorized to carry guns on airplanes? Nearly every government employee is authorized--without requirement to show need, to be trained, or show competency. Good Grief--they had a DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TESTER carrying a gun in the back of the airplane!
I can hear the excuses already--"I need the gun in case anybody wants to take the answer sheets away from me".  Government "Enforcers"? You bet!
But the government is dragging its feet about arming PILOTS--the people charged with the SAFETY of flight, the guys that have undergone psychological screening--the guys the bad guys are trying to GET TO--despite the fact that Congress mandated it.
Glad to know that the government is "protecting" us?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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