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| Post Number: 31
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MrTarzan 
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 17 2004,2:29 pm |
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Pretty funny reader. This is a forum, also, this is a section within the forum called opinion. People give opinions in this section. You don't like um, don't visit anymore. Thank God there is a Constitution still protecting us from thought police, even though it is under attack daily by people that think public discourse is wrong.
The information that I have heard is that Brist is an alright guy. What disturbs me is that you, and others like Irisheyes seem to think that a teacher using physical force is o.k. Where did you go to school? Did they grab you? I would not tolerate that at all with my children. The point I am making is that there are trained people to grab kids called police. If you need to call police, do so. If he knew the kids, what does he care if they leave, the cops will find them. If they throw away the smokes or liquor, well that accomplished something too did it not. Since you wish to try to quote the law, grabbing someone else is defined as simple assualt.
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 32
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 17 2004,8:22 pm |
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| Quote (MrTarzan @ Feb. 17 2004,2:29:pm) | | What disturbs me is that you, and others like Irisheyes seem to think that a teacher using physical force is o.k. |
I never stated, nor do I think that a teacher useing physical force is okay. At the same time though, I don't believe the story's being posted in this thread. Even if partially true, I think people are exagerateing. Another thing is that new username's are popping up constantly in this thread, this leads me to believe that students are registering & posting trying to get him in trouble. As soon as I heard someone say that he made the police give 10 kids breathalizer's, as if a teacher can tell police what to do, I didn't believe anything else.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 33
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 17 2004,9:08 pm |
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My most humble apology irisheyes. You are right, I went back and I was thinking of JimHansons statement about having a good reason to accost the kids. I should of gone back and found the quote, I just thought it was you  I guess hanson just writes such intelligent stuff I had a hard time realizing that it was him.
Maybe you are right and the same students are logging in under many names, but maybe it is more than that. I have participated in BBS's since the first modems use to take all night just to post this  , but rarely do moderators allow more than one identity per account. Yes, someone can have several e-mail accounts, and therefore register under an equal number of names, but I think this board has some controls. I notice bosshawg instantly gets your address and system info. Still, you might be right, and as I said at the beginning, my girl likes him. It is the indifferent attitude "if" he grabbed someone that scares me. He should be counseled not to do that. Those days are gone, or in Hollywood. :cool: They were never correct and usually escalated things. I am not a proponent for suing, but suing does bring bad behavior to the light of day, and puts things back into a "Civil" court hopefully avoiding a school shooting. I don't want for some teacher to get ticked off and end up costing all of us more money because he manhandles a student and gets sued either. What I am saying is don't do it. Call the authorities, period. That is what they are trained for, and paid for, not teachers.
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 34
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 17 2004,10:18 pm |
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Apology accepted. Actually, I think its a compliment you would associate jimhanson's post's with my own.
Us republican's have got to stick together! 
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 35
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reader
Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 17 2004,10:39 pm |
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You are right Tarzan, opinions are what this section is all about, agreed. The problem I have is when people start tossing out accusations it goes way beyond opinion. Obviously, there is a BIG difference. Also, if memory serves me right, once you put words on to paper (virtual or actual) it becomes action so you don't have to worry about thought police. And you're right, it is good that the Constitution is here to protect citizens from wrongful accusations in a public forum. If you care to look it up, ruling for the damaged party has already been challenged and upheld so there is precedence. All I'm saying is that opinions are fine, unless someone has hard facts to back up comments made about an individual directly, they better be ready to face the consequences if challenged.
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| Post Number: 36
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 18 2004,12:07 am |
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Yeah, I have heard it all before, reader. Though I agree it stinks when people gossip and spread rumors, it is pushing it to try to make it criminal. I guess I just don't understand why some people immediately try intimidating people into stopping it, rather than debating and presenting another side. That is just as wrong as those that are speading rumors to me. In addition, you seem to be well read and a little versed on the law, so why are you trying to compare this to pirating music or software  C'mon, that is a real reach and just an angry reaction to what you read. The two would'nt even come up in argument in front of the judge without a chuckle from the bench. Trying to classify what people wrote here as libel or slander (which is a stretch) would open entirely different arguments from the defense on constitutional grounds, not intellectual property rights.
Still, I understand your point that people should only state facts as facts, and say "that I heard" when they just heard. I heard Brist is pretty cool, I have now read that maybe he is a bit of a hothead. "if" he did grab someone, he was over the line unless pulling them from a fire or out of the way of a train Maybe he never did, no harm in discussing it though. If he did'nt he would probably laugh at all of this, I would. If he did it, maybe it would give him pause to see all the opinions, and maybe that would save us all money from a suit in the future. I believe in forums period. You just have to get use to them, this is the information age and the revolution is spreading around the world. You can't hide what you do anymore, and you better be prepared for scrutiny. Besides, isn't precedence that first he has to deny it and give the accusers a chance to retract it in MN, unless he can show where it already did irreparable harm?(i.e. loss of job, promotion, marriage, etc) I believe so.
Now if someone started saying he was a gay man from Mars-then he should break out the attorneys I would'nt stand for that I've never even been to Mars
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 37
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 18 2004,10:30 am |
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I don't know Brist, or the basis of the allegations other than what the WRITER alleged. The writer alleged that Brist "pulled cigarettes out of his pocket" and that a kid had "alcohol in a pop can".
My wife is an elementary teacher, and teachers are required to take regular turns as "playground monitors". In today's litigious society, there is an expectation that they not only keep kids from fighting or doing something dangerous--they must enforce the rules set by the School District. There is an expectation that they will do whatever is necessary to keep kids safe.
A police officer doesn't have the option of ignoring a crime being committed--even if he is "off duty". Similarly--unlike private citizens, teachers do not have the option of ignoring behavior contrary to District policy. In the event that something happens, the District and the teacher would be held accountable.
While none of us have the "facts" in this case--it would appear that Brist was doing what the District expected of him--confiscating cigarettes from a minor, and reporting the alcohol violation to the police (he apparently took no direct action--it was the police that required the breathalizer tests).
Irisheyes guessed correctly--students are not only registering and posting--but according to one registered member--are using his log-in to post--verfied on the Moderator messages. I had hoped that this would die out naturally--but like some of the other "gossip" threads, it seems to have taken on a life of its own.
One of the values of the Forum is that opinions can be expressed, and news that would otherwise go unreported shared. It is up to the reader to decide if the opinions or news is credible. We should all be skeptical of ANYTHING we see in the mainstream media--or on this Forum. The nice thing about the Forum is that it is INTERACTIVE. Make the poster PROVE the point!
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 38
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the Grad
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 18 2004,11:30 am |
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There is a difference between rumors and facts
Maybe some of these are getting blown out of proportion like the 10 kids that got breath tests. But there was only 6.
( Casey,Troy,Nate,Alrik,Danny, and Kris)
Maybe before you start talking you should know the facts and witnessed what happened like many of the writers in this disscussion. As a witness i know that each topic on here is true. They are not rumors but excuse me if you have been falsely informed. I wouldnt doubt if this is Mr. Brist trying to cover himself for all the mistakes he has made.
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| Post Number: 39
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the Grad
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 18 2004,11:37 am |
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Jim Hansen sorry to correct you he never confiscated the cigaretts. He pulled them from the pocket of a minor and when an individual asked Mr. Brist if he had the authority to do that he GAVE the minor his smokes back. and forgot about it. To me that is supplying to a minor. Shouldnt he have reported the minor to the cops or taken the ciggs away. SO MUCH FOR HIM DOING HIS JOB!!!
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| Post Number: 40
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 18 2004,12:22 pm |
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I don't know anything of this situation but there seems to be a fair amount of unhappy students in our high school. Not to be taking sides because I don't know what happened and don't care to get dragged into this discussion. But, the way I see this is that it's an issue that these young adults and their parents need to bring up with the school administration.
I'm not saying that they don't have a right to vent here I'm saying that along with venting here if any of the allegations are true then it needs to be taken up with the school administration because just venting here really does nothing about any problem.
A lot of people might not agree with me on this but district 241 has always seemed to ignore the concerns of the students(and parents) even 15-20 years ago when I went to school they were like that. They've never understood that the students spend 8 hours a day with these teachers and they see the way they act every day of the week. Every kid in that school has always been able to tell you which teachers suck at teaching or tend to have an explosive temper.
I can think of 3 teachers right off the top of my head that should have been looked into when I went to school. There was a science teacher that had a tendancy to drop his pencil whenever a cute girl was wearing a short skirt, an algebra teacher that did nothing but sleep through most of his classes and a phy. ed. teacher with an explosive temper and a tendency to put his hands on students.
Maybe ISD 241 should consider getting the student councils more involved in these type of complaints or maybe set up a review board of staff for looking into student and parent complaints about staff.
Whether they are 18 years old or not they deserve all the protections of the U.S. constitution including protection from illegal search and seizure and if my kid were searched over a pack of cigs I'd be pretty angry. The only exception I can possibly see to a student being searched is if the student were suspected of having a weapon and the search was just a pat-down for any weapons.
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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