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Question: OBAMACARE :: Total Votes:52
Poll choices Votes Statistics
Leave me alone, I can take care of myself. 9  [17.31%]
No, it will lead to rationing of health care. 2  [3.85%]
Why pay my neighbors health care, and he pays mine? 0  [0.00%]
The present system isn't perfect, but better than others 6  [11.54%]
Socialized medicine hasn't worked anywhere its tried 10  [19.23%]
Private insurance, AND government for those needing it 4  [7.69%]
Government coverage only for CATASTROPHIC claims. 2  [3.85%]
But...But....But....it has worked SO well in Canada 1  [1.92%]
Yeah, bring it on! 12  [23.08%]
"Obama gonna give me gas, pay my rent, be my doctor!" 6  [11.54%]
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Topic: OBAMACARE, Government efficiency at its finest!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 41
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,9:57 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE
I'm not disputing your claim but what is your source?

There is a lot of blame to go around.  You could even blame doctors.  I went to a young Chiropractor a few weeks ago that wasn't set up with BCBS so he only charged me $35.  Once the agreement with BCBS is in place his price will probably be in the $60 - $70 range for a visit.  The insurance will probably cover $30 -$40 and he'll still get his $35 directly from me.  Is that ok?  It doesn't sound fair but I'm still willing to use a chiropractor because I want to.  The other alternative is to not go and live with my pain, but I CHOOSE not to.

As far as justifying his compensation...how do YOU justify anyones compensation then?  Who are You to decide who should make what?  What is your litmus test? This IS America.  We are free to sell, manufacture, service just about what ever we want and charge what ever we want.  You are free to decide what you want to buy and what you don't want to buy.  If you don't like those companies paying outrageous salaries then don't buy from them.  Apparently, they provide a product or service that is in high demand and people are willing to pay to get that.

nuff said...
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 Post Number: 42
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,10:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jun. 26 2009,8:58 am)
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(Common Citizen @ Jun. 25 2009,4:34 pm)
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But because a CEO of an insurance company makes millions while you're making thousands...they're greedy, huh?  How much are they worth?  How much are YOU worth?   :dunno:

Profits for drug makers are almost 20% compared with 6.3% for all Fortune 500 companies. Health Insurance companies profits have increased 1,084 % in five years..
Pharmaceutical company CEOs average 4.36 million a year in compensation, for health insurance companies it's 8.75 million a year..
The average premium for family health insurance is $12,000 and is expected to double by 2016 unless we do something....
One insurance company executive alone, Aetna's Ronald Williams, brings in more than $32 million a year,  justify that Common !!!

As the old saying goes--"If you're so smart, why airn't YOU rich?" :p

With a record of profitability like that, how much pharmaceutical stock do you own? :dunno:

You seem to have discovered something that the investors on Wall Street haven't figured out! :sarcasm:

IF I were sure of those figures, I would borrow every cent I could lay my hands on , and leverage myself to the hilt--and make a fortune.

After all, if you can borrow money at 6% and get a 20% profit, why not? :p

QUOTE
One insurance company executive alone, Aetna's Ronald Williams, brings in more than $32 million a year,  justify that Common !!!
 I guess the stockholders are HAPPY to pay him that much, if he can bring in the profits! :rofl:

This guy employs thousands of people. The money is NOT salary--it is a performance bonus.  No performance--no bonus.  What could be more fair than that? :dunno:

Why is it your business how much he makes?  Are you a stockholder in the company?  There are only two parties to salaries--the employer--and the employee.  I'm always amazed that libbies are "outraged" at executive compensation--yet have no problem at all with Hollywood actors that get $20 Million a picture for pretending to be somebody else--with no budget or employee issues to be responsible for.  They have no problems with huge sports salaries--many of which ALSO have performance bonuses.

More evidence that libbies live in an alternate universe.

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 Post Number: 43
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,11:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE
From Politico nullMy Webpage

QUOTE
The senators said they found $400 billion in savings earlier this week, largely by reducing the amount of subsidies for low-income individuals to buy insurance.

Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said they found much of the additional $200 billion in savings by further adjusting the level of subsidies. It is unclear, however, whether they would reduce the amount of each subsidy or lower the income level at which people become eligible.




Let's see:

The Obamunists want to have National Socialized Health Care to cover "The Poor".

They claim that it will "Only" cost $1 TRILLION dollars.

GAO comes out and says it will cost a MINIMUM of $1,6 TRILLION dollars.  Other estimates claim $4 TRILLION in 10 years.

Even Donk legislators are shocked.  The viability of Obamacare is in question.

Donk legislators offer a multitude of amendments to make it more politically palatable to the public.

Instead of admitting their error and over-reach, Donks "find" "savings" of $400 BILLION dollars--plus an additional "savings" of $200 BILLION dollars--thereby getting the price back unter $1 TRILLION dollars.

And where did these "savings" come from?  By cutting back the subsidies to the very people the original bill was supposed to help--the poor!
:frusty:  :frusty:  :frusty:

If you ever needed proof that this is NOT about "helping the poor"--but is instead a naked power grab, here it is! :dunce:

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 Post Number: 44
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,12:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Common Citizen @ Jun. 26 2009,9:57 am)
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I'm not disputing your claim but what is your source?

Those statistics came from the aflcio.org union site...

jimhanson
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The government wants to treat YOU like it treats its own soldiers--VA Hospitals.


Just a month ago you were whining because you couldn't use the VA, thanks to George Bush & Company...

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 Post Number: 45
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,12:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE
Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990


Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960


Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.


Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana


Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.


Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

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                                                   ~NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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 Post Number: 46
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,12:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(jimhanson @ Jun. 26 2009,11:22 am)
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If you ever needed proof that this is NOT about "helping the poor"--but is instead a naked power grab, here it is! :dunce:

If the poor already recieve these benifits , what is the end game?  What power would be achieved?

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 Post Number: 47
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,1:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jun. 26 2009,12:12 pm)
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(Common Citizen @ Jun. 26 2009,9:57 am)
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I'm not disputing your claim but what is your source?

Those statistics came from the aflcio.org union site...

Not to disparage your source...but I've read AFL/CIO magazines including the AFSCME union magazines enough over the years where I can now murmer bull$hit and cough at the same time.  I assume those publications come from the same source as there website counterparts.   :;):
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 Post Number: 48
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,1:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Pretzel Logic @ Jun. 26 2009,12:52 pm)
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(jimhanson @ Jun. 26 2009,11:22 am)
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If you ever needed proof that this is NOT about "helping the poor"--but is instead a naked power grab, here it is! :dunce:

If the poor already recieve these benifits , what is the end game?  What power would be achieved?

The poor are NOT already receiving those benefits.  The orginal premise of Obamacare was to "help the poor".  When the cost came in much HIGHER than the Obamunists had been stating, they started looking for "savings."  They "saved" money by....can you believe this......CUTTING BENEFITS FOR THE POOR if the bill DID pass.

This begs the question--if it isn't to help the poor, who IS it supposed to help? :dunno:

No--it's a naked power grab for 1/7 of the economy of the country.

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 Post Number: 49
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,2:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jun. 26 2009,12:16 pm)
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Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990


Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960


Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.


Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana


Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.


Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

It's a case of not that we have gotten WORSE--but that others have IMPROVED.  Got a problem with that? :dunno:

In all of your "facts"--what is it that these countries have that the U.S. doesn't have?   :dunno:

Superior equipment? :dunno:  

Better Doctors?   :dunno:

Better drugs? :dunno:

No, the problem is not with lack of any of the above, but our standard of living.  Be like the "Blue Zones" character--and seek out "places where people don't over-eat" and "places where people walk a lot."  Our own doctors tell us to lose weight and get more exercise--if we don't do that, is that the DOCTOR'S FAULT? :p

QUOTE
Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana
  STAND BY FOR THE MICHAEL MOORE MOMENT! :rofl:

You count how many immunizations a person gets as a measure of health?   :crazy:   Maybe it's because in the U.S. we have largely ELIMINATED most communicable diseases.

I would encourage you, and Michael Moore, to live in the medical paradise of Botswana.  You'll NEED all of those injections! :rofl:

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 Post Number: 50
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2009,3:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jun. 26 2009,12:16 pm)
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Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990


Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960


Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.


Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana


Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.


Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Ok, no one asked so I will.  Expat, you're stating facts again, but not backing them up wit a link.

Please show us doubters.

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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up.  -Liberal
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1182 replies since Jun. 23 2009,2:19 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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