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| Post Number: 41
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Grinning_Dragon 
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 22 2004,10:10 pm |
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Yeah, I knew what the ACT was and why, just could never remember on how to spell the darn thing.
What should be
If the Feds want to have troops attacking things in the US, why not put them on the US/Mexico boarder, and help those guys(police, border patrol, and civies) in the border towns and stem back the flow of illegals, hell shoot em all....
That action IS allowed by the enumeration of the Constitution..
The Bad
What about Ruby Ridge, and Waco, the Military was there, but according to the reports only on as an advisory role, YEAH RIGHT. That action I believe is a slippery slope, Ruby Ridge was a fiasco that should have never happened.
Sometimes neccesary
TimelineYou remember when the Guard was activated during the Viet Nam War, on those hippie peaceniks at Kent State?
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 42
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,7:37 am |
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Remember that the Guard is excluded from the Posse Comitatus. They are allowed to be used in law enforcement because they are supposed to be from the community and controlled by the state. By being from the community it should limit their aggression and keep abuses to a minimum. A soldier from Georgia may not like Minnesotans, and vice versa, and therefore my be temped to use excessive force. Now what they were not intended to be was a standing Army sent overseas on a regular basis to augment an Army that has been shrunk to such a small size and spread so thin that they cannot do their job without the Guard. If you talk to most regular Army folks, you will find that they have no problem with the idea of patrolling the borders, as a matter of fact it would be very good training. They would be having an easier time closing the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan if they practiced it year round here. It is authorized by the act for them to protect us from infiltrators from other nations and for them to defend our borders. We have Guardsman from this area in Egypt, Kosovo, Iraq and now Afghanistan, and not just for a fight as in the past, but to help with nation building and security for as long as two years! I know that most of them did not sign on for that, but they are proud enough to go without much complaint. God Bless them.
Meanwhile they are flooding over our borders at the highest rate ever, and still we argue over smoking in restaurants and other silly crap that should be such a low priority. I don't get it. Why change it now? Have we had a huge spike in local smoking problems? I mean if people are blowing smoke in peoples faces more this year call the cops, they have enough firepower now, and there are enough deputies now to grab these hooligans and get them if they resist 
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 43
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,9:55 am |
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"Defend the borders and deliver the mail" the role of government as advocated by minimalist government advocates pre-WW I. I would submit that the government hasn't done a real good job of even these basic functions! 
Using the Army to defend the border certainly would be constitutional. Does anybody know what happened to the suits by the states of Arizona and California against the U.S. government for failure to defend the borders--causing huge costs for local law enforcement to do so?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 44
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,7:08 pm |
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I do not know. I know that FOX news was going to have a special on the border problem Sunday, but I was out of town and missed it. Anyone see it? I think the military should be on the border, it is ridiculous the way it is now. I lived in El Paso for 2 years and I will tell you that they cross the river all along in broad daylight. It is a joke.
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 45
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,7:26 pm |
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The military on the border?!
I mean Canada needs to keep us out, we don't need to keep them from coming here. Are you mad?
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| Post Number: 46
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,8:07 pm |
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Minnow, you are such a constructive thinker.
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 47
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,10:15 pm |
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You could argue that the Guard is Federal, as they are paid with by tax dollars, and receive equip.,supplies from the Federal level. Yes their MOS is a state guard, to be used by the govenor, but can also be called into active duty as the Commander in Chief sees fit.
Also you brought up the fact that the military is spread thin.
Kinda wierd that a Republican pres will build up a military, only to have a Democrat pres, cut way below rediness levels, why is that?
The other reason is the fact that the base pay grade now days is not enough, turning back possible good soldiers to look into fields in the private sector that pay high dollar amounts.
Pay should be re-examined and adjusted accordingly.
Another thing that cuts down the military numbers, is the fact that many do not RE-UP, as they have been circle-jerked one to many times. I can tell you numerous times my cousin never got a paycheck in months while stationed in Ramstein. Come to find out that welfare recipients get paid before most of our military personnel. To me that is BS, welfare recipients should get the bottom of cash barrel....
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 48
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,11:19 pm |
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What does that even mean...are you drunk? Corporate welfare like the 10's of millions that went to Enron will always come before stuff like paying peon soldiers in time. We son't care if they get paid as long as big daddy in suit gets paid first...and big. First and big pay policy for fat cats is da way of da world.
I've got money now and I'll fight anyone who even wants a dime. Plus I'll still collect my gubment grants to boot! I ain't no sucka...I'm da minner.
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| Post Number: 49
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,10:28 am |
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Dragon--good point about the State/Federal relationship of the Guard. Normally, the Guard is paid from State money, but when called up for Federal duty, as in overseas deployment, they are paid with Federal money. In the case of the Minnesota Air National Guard, there are no less than 6 agencies paying for the troops. Too bad the troops get so little.
One of the biggest problems in recruitment is that with the tendency towards long-term deployment lately, the Guard troops have a real financial problem. Activate a guy that has been making say $50,000 a year, and pay him a fraction of that--how does his family live? They can't "downsize"--how do they make house payments?
I know it is hard to sympathize with someone that makes a good salary, but I know several airline pilots that also fly for the Guard. As an airline pilot, they make over $100,000 per year. As a Guard pilot on year-long deployment, they make $35,000 per year--but their house payments go on. The same thing goes for technical specialists and engineers--even worse for medical professionals.
It is this economic sacrifice--as much as the danger or being away from the family, that is causing the mass exodus from the Guard and Reserve. There is such a shortage that I know of several who have put in their resignation papers, and been "frozen" in position--unable to get out without affecting their retirement that they have built up.
This will have a "snowball" effect--the Guard won't have trained technical positions, and won't be able to augment the all-volunteer army. In the next two years, we're going to have to face up to the facts--pay our troops better, or accept the fact that we can't deploy as many people around the world as we have now.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 50
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,10:47 am |
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Minnow with your limited education I am amazed you can even turn on that puter.
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