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| Post Number: 71
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irisheyes 
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,12:44 am |
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Geo, you took all the arguements I was gonna use. We must be reading the same book about the subject. 
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 72
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,12:40 pm |
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George- I finally got through your post on separation of church and state and all I could think was cough*bullsh!t*cough!
First off, your post made the claim that the three branches of government were taken directly from the bible and continued on from there. If I remember correctly, wasn’t the government built around historic accounts of Roman government? With all the hints of Roman and Greek civilization within our government, I have a tendency to believe this over the ‘government by bible’ that your post suggests.
Next, this line:
| Quote | | The "wall" was understood as one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values. |
Wrong. The “wall” was not only put in place to protect the church from the state, but to protect the state from the church as well. The reason is even explained itself in your post, about worries over a state-sponsored church such as was the case in England. Sure, the country may have been founded by Christians, but they also had the foresight to see that if their religion can be persecuted (such as the case in England) then so could any others, thus protecting ANY religious practice, not just Catholicism.
| Quote | | There is no such thing as a pluralistic society. There will always be one dominant view, otherwise it will be in transition from one belief system to another. Therefore, to say Biblical principles should not be allowed in government and school is to either be ignorant of the historic intent of the founding fathers, or blatantly bigoted against Christianity. |
Yet there are protections in the constitution protecting the minorities from the majorities if it infringes on basic rights, and freedom of religion is one of these rights. Besides, biblical principles seen in government could also be construed as simple common sense, like the line:
| Quote | | Congress has passed laws that it is illegal to murder and steal, which is the legislation of morality. These standards of morality are found in the Bible. |
Is the bible suddenly the only place that murder and theft are frowned upon? Hardly, and using this same logic I would have an easy time making the case that the US was founded on morals found in tales by the Brothers Grimm. That goes for the bad logic stating that since the founding fathers were Christian, that they wanted a Christian nation. They were also slave owners, so it also could be argued using that logic that the founding fathers also wanted this to be a slave owning nation. Isn’t this bad logic argument fun?
| Quote | | If one did not believe in God one could not operate from a proper moral base. And by not having a foundation from which to work, one would destroy the community. |
And this one line in that whole post shows the argument as the pro-bible propaganda it is. To say that lack of belief in god equates lack of morals is simply asinine.
| Quote | | What price have we paid by removing this simple acknowledgment of God's protecting hand in our lives? Birth rates for unwed girls from 15-19; sexually transmitted diseases among 10-14 year olds; pre-marital sex increased; violent crime; adolescent homicide have all gone up considerably from 1961 to the 1990's -- even after taking into account population growth. The Bible, before 1961, was used extensively in curriculum. After the Bible was removed, scholastic aptitude test scores dropped considerably. |
So now we are saying that all this has a direct link to the lack of bibles and prayer in schools? Again, using that logic, I could argue that since the bible was removed that life expectancy has increased, infant mortality rates are down, standard of living has rose, technology has advanced, and so on and so on. Idiotic logic strikes again!
All of this and not one mention of the topic of this thread, smoking bans, unless we now trying to say that smoking and civil liberties are now sins and that gods will is a smoking ban.
Wake up, there are several religions out there all with the same basic messages, be good to and respect one another. Trying to promote one religion over another and trying to justify it through bad logic arguments is just nonsense. Didn't the bible at least teach people to be tolerant of others differences, including religious belief? Sadly, most modern day 'christians' are hypocrites, and man do I hate hypocrites.
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 73
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minnow fan
Group: Members
Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,12:59 pm |
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| Quote (cpu_slave @ Mar. 03 2004,12:40:pm) | | Sadly, most modern day 'christians' are hypocrites, and man do I hate hypocrites. |
So true, too bad they can't be as perfect as you.
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Even if you think the ALEDC is a good idea, do you really want to put Sparks and Bishop in charge of all the economic development in Albert Lea?
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| Post Number: 74
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,2:30 pm |
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You have to remember the founding fathers came here with the King James Edition of the Bible.
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| Post Number: 75
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,3:11 pm |
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| Quote (minnow fan @ Mar. 03 2004,12:59:pm) | | Quote (cpu_slave @ Mar. 03 2004,12:40:pm) | | Sadly, most modern day 'christians' are hypocrites, and man do I hate hypocrites. |
So true, too bad they can't be as perfect as you. |
Where did I suggest that I was a christian or for that matter that I considered myself 'perfect'? Still, glad you at least agree with the part you quoted there minnow fan.
George, I thought the founding fathers were born here? If you mean the puritans, then why was the government not set up to the high moral standards that they lived by?
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 76
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cwolff
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,4:57 pm |
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Geo, how would you add religion(s) back to the schools?
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| Post Number: 77
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,5:30 pm |
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Keep my government out of my religion, and my religion out of government.
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 78
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,5:50 pm |
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I would first re-instate the "One Nation Under God" back in the Pledge of Alegence then offer an elective Class in High School in Theology
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| Post Number: 79
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2004,6:39 pm |
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| Quote | | I would first re-instate the "One Nation Under God" back in the Pledge of Alegence |
Was it ever dropped? Even in the 9th Circuit Court (California Lefty-Land)? It would have to be adjudicated before the U.S. Supreme Court.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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