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Montyman 
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 22 2004,10:03 pm |
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There's alot of talk about how government is bad and controls too much of our lives, tells us what to do, etc...
So what do you and what don't you expect government to do for you?
Let's stay at the City and County level for this thread.
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 2
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 22 2004,10:29 pm |
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DO--Stay the hell away from me, I don't need you but you need me.
Leave my money alone what I make is mine, if you want some get a real job.
Leave my property alone, its mine, not yours now get off before I blow your head off....
DON'TTax anymore, I have no more to give, I need money so I can buy things that I want, that are either dangerous, or unhealthy for me. I want to spoil myself, and my family. Yes thats right I am greedy, capitalism was once a great thing until you came along.
Don't tell us we live in a Democracy, WE DON'T you idiots, its called a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC you dolts.
Quit telling me on how I should live my life, its mine to do with, not yours, unless you are into the slavery business now..
I owe no allegiance to you, only to GOD, FLAG AND COUNTRY.
Don't promise us the sun moon and the stars, just be honest. It'll make us go easy on you during your azz kicking..
LAST BUT NOT LEAST,
TAKE YOUR OATH SERIOUSLY..
Remember, for the people by the people. We own you, you work for us......
Now get....
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,12:08 pm |
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Grinning Dragon--funny, sad, true!   
Though we are talking local government, I think the view of government is best exemplified by the last electoral map--88% of the land mass of the country wants government to leave them alone, 12% is totally dependent on it--and the population is split 50-50 on the issue.
Government at all levels has become too intrusive into our everyday lives. It is impossible to know about and comply with all of the rules and regulations passed not only by deliberative bodies, but by the myriad agencies, councils, departments, and districts they spawn.
Government not only takes a big percentage of YOUR money to feed itself, but takes hidden taxes as well. You may THINK you are paying "only" 28% in taxes--but there are State taxes, local taxes, school taxes, watershed district taxes, port authority taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, estate taxes, capital gain taxes, etc. The biggest HIDDEN tax is corporate income tax--when a corporation pays taxes, those taxes are passed on to the consumers. How much tax do you suppose is included in the price of a new car? How much tax did the taconite company, the shipping line, the steel manufacturer, the sub-assembly provider, the delivery company pay? How about the employers share of FICA, Workers Comp, Unemployment, etc? How about the State and Federal taxes, taxes on dividends, local property taxes, etc. that the corporation pays? Is it any wonder that in 1970, you could buy a new car for $2,500--compared to the cost today? The point is--the government takes nearly half your money. Tax freedom day--the day you quit working for the Government, and are able to start working for yourself, is May 27 this year. Think about it--up until that time, every dime you make went to the Government!
Too large a percentage of our total population is dependent in some way or another on the government. That isn't to say that there shouldn't be government programs--only that they are all-pervasive. There is direct employment--estimates run from 12-21% of the population works for the government in some capacity. Then there is the military, the school system employees, defense contractors, welfare recipients, social security and medicare recipients, veterans, farmers--ALL with a vested interest in making sure the government perpetuates their program. How are we to ever shrink government if we are ALL on the dole? Is there anyone reading this that doesn't get some kind of government benefit or check?
I believe that government programs USUALLY have UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. In an attempt to make something better, they usually end up making it worse. An example would be gun control--it SEEMS that confiscating all guns would make sense, but it hasn't worked anywhere it has been tried--only the criminals end up with guns. Same with "Drug wars", the "War on Poverty" (created new tenements--'the projects', and a whole underclass of people) I've got news for the government about the War on Poverty--Poverty WON!
I believe that the marketplace will always win out over government controls. It is the height of folly to believe that the government can rule simply by government edict. Even in the most totalitarian countries, the marketplace has always provided and prevailed when government failed.
The sad part--the failure of government has never stopped people from trying to implement similar programs over and over and over, or from government making the same empty promises to an ill-informed electorate that REALLY believes that "the OTHER guy will pay".
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,7:39 pm |
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Let's simplify this...with a few examples.
Do you want the government to build infrastructure? (roads, airports, sewers, water supplies, etc.
What do you want?
Do you want social programs? (Welfare, home care for elderlt, free shots, etc.) Which ones?
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,7:40 pm |
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Grinning_Dragon I would draw the line at shooting people unless they came to unjustly remove my property, but I agree with you and jimhanson that the many layers of government are out of control, and it is very hard to get it back to where it remembers that it serves the people, period.
Montyman, at the local city and council level, I expect the government to provide me with infrastructure that I cannot provide. I expect to have decent roads, (not necessary to line them with expensive lights, just normal street lights. Traffic control, fire protection, some police, sewers that can handle waste well enough to not have to dump in the lake when it rains hard (it is Minnesota after all), animal control and education for my kids. I reluctantly throw in public education, because once upon a time, it was all that was offered in most areas and it was in the form of simple schools. Now that we build palaces and teach our kids that bigger and more is better, and that they are entitled to an education in gilded halls, I am not so sure. I lived in countries were they are kicking our rears in PHD's issued, mathematicians created and science is a priority, and all of the primary schools just have a blackboard, so somewhere I think this country lost its focus on what makes a good school, but I want all kids to have access to education, therefore I support public ed.
I don't think that I need a port authority in a landlocked area, with no navigable river, I would rather have a fulltime mayor and no city manager, instead of a parttime mayor and an unelected boss of the town. I would rather see no Jobs INC, and just have a city marketer that answered to the mayor, not some weird hybrid development not-for-profit that has become a landlord to existing businesses. I mean, how do you decide what business to subsidize and which ones have to make it on their own? I understand we do these things because other communities did them first and we feel we have to be competitive, but I think they are beyond what government is supposed to exist for. It should not be in the job creation business, but the labor law enforcement business, etc. Serve and protect. That is local governments function.
I could go on, but I think you see where I stand.
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 6
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,8:01 pm |
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Great post, Mister Tarzan.
When people want something, like roads, they band together to build them.
I'd like some more input from this forum...then maybe we can make a point or 2.
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,11:22 am |
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We Are Guarenteed the right to persue happiness, Freedom to choose, Freedom of thought, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, except don't bring it up more than twice a year.
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MrTarzan
Group: Members
Posts: 564
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,8:58 pm |
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LOL  Great point GEOKARJO
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Be not simply good, be good for something-Henry David Thoreau
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| Post Number: 9
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,10:22 pm |
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| Quote | Do you want the government to build infrastructure? (roads, airports, sewers, water supplies, etc.
Do you want social programs? (Welfare, home care for elderlt, free shots, etc.) Which ones? |
I would guess taxes would be necessary for some infrastructure, but as MrTarzan pointed out we don't need any fancy stuff, just get the time tested stuff.
99.9% of social programs need to be eliminated. Thus freeing up money for other gov't needs, and a lower taxation on the people. I don't see why I need to be ROBBED of my hard earn money to pay for someone elses expenses..
Not my responsibility to see to it that students have uniforms, instruments or any of the other extra item that are involved with extra ciricular activities, if parents or students want to be in those after school activites, then they should have to pay for it themselves.
Put it this way, anything that involves income redistribution, I am 100% against....They can fend for themselves, I do....
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 10
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2004,9:00 pm |
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So, I guess you're against Social Security too?
BS, you don't care about money or you wouldn't spend $250,000 on every kid who trys a drug. Wouldn't worry about the half penny out of your paycheck for welfare while willfully giving $10 to the military. BS, you don't care about money.
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