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| Post Number: 11
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Grinning_Dragon 
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2004,9:13 pm |
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Minnow- If I didn't care about the Money that I make, then why would I be against Socialist programs?
If I didn't care, then kindly tell me what I do care about then?
Why is it someones responsibility to see to my retirement needs? Why is mine to see to their retirement needs?
The answer is none.
The way I see it, the money I make is mine all mine.
And as I stated before some taxes for some gov't infrastructure is needed. And yes I would give money to the military before I gave to some system abusing leach.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 12
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 26 2004,8:58 am |
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"Let the people think THEY govern, and they will BE governed"---William Penn
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 13
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Frustrated
Group: Members
Posts: 226
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2004,11:14 am |
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Regarding Social Security - Yes, I am very much in favor of being paid back for all the money I've paid into the program.
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| Post Number: 14
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2004,3:53 pm |
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I had a friend--a fairly Liberal guy--say "Social Security, I'll gladly pay in the rest of my life if you'll leave my kids alone".
For the point of discussion, SHOULD there be an "opt out" at some point for Social Security?
I'll throw out the first ball--The system isn't working, has no possibility of actually paying off all the existing people covered--so let's face up to it and cut our losses NOW.
It IS in the best interest of government that there be SOME kind of retirement program for all individuals, so people don't end up on government assistance. That could me means-tested ("prove you have sufficient means to support your retirement"), it could mean purchasing a retirement plan (an annuity would have NO downside risk), it could be investment in an approved market plan (has the added benefit of putting money into the market for further investment), or it could be a government-sponsored program like the present.
Currently, the SS system takes 7.65% of the employee wages, PLUS the same amount--a total of 15.3%--nearly 1/7 of all wages paid in the U.S.! This is money that is NOT available for re-investment, bank loans, or purchases of consumer goods--futher hampering the economy.
The return on investment for Social Security averages only about 2%--not enough to keep pace with inflation over the last few decades. You could have gotten that much return by putting the money in passbook savings--with full government protection!
A final problem with Social Security is that when you (or surviving spouse) die, that is the end of the program. Money set aside in a private program is yours to give as you please--to family members or charitable institutions.
Any way you cut it, Social Security is a poor investment--for the individuals, for businesses, and for the government. For years, Railroad workers and public employees were exempt--BECAUSE THEY HAD A BETTER SYSTEM IN PLACE! Congress has exempted ITSELF from this law--GIVE US THE SAME OPTION!
Fire Away! 
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 15
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2004,9:38 pm |
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Jim-
Social Security was bust from the day it was thought of, IMHO.
A few years back I remember reading a stat on SS, and when it first started, it took 7 people working to support 1 on SS, now it is somewhere in the ball-park of 20+ people working to support 1 on SS. I suppose inflation and other economics play a big part on this.
SS needs to be set up like a 401k plan, the money that is stolen from you, would get put into an account just for you.
Or the idea you suggested, OPTING-OUT. Sounds fine to me, then I could put that toward my 401k or IRA.
Congress-critters have used SS as a spend at will account for too long, its their fault their is no money left. Tax cuts had nothing to do with it..
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 16
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 06 2004,3:06 pm |
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Grinning Dragon--Isn't it amazing how fast the Lefties tried to link changes in the Social Security program with Tax cuts and the budget deficit?
This--from the party that BROUGHT US this Ponzi scheme--this drain on the economy? As you point out, there is no link between tax cuts and the need to change social security, or between the budget deficit and social security receipts or payments. The only link is that Congressional Big Spenders CAN'T "BORROW" FROM SOCIAL SECURITY IF IT IS BANKRUPT! As you point out, they have been doing this since its inception.
Greenspan's statements are not new--it was an issue in the 1964 Johnson-Goldwater election. Each time, we have been told that "social security is just fine"--little or no action taken.
Given the current strident tone of Washington Lefties--was their "intelligence bad", or did they "lie" for all those years?" 
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 17
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Truth
Group: Members
Posts: 552
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 21 2004,8:41 pm |
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Amen...Taxes suck. So, like all things that suck we don't need too much. Minnow you don't actually think we spend more on the military than we do on social programs. Stop, that's is an argument at the national level. Marty said stick to the local goverment.
Then again maybe you don't know the difference.
Our theory of government, in this great experiment, was that we need only that amount of government that is required to protect the individual from tyranny. As the world has changed our goverment has. Thus it's expansion. Yet, the goverment has swelled into endeavors it was not designed for. That lack of design is the reason it fails us in those areas.
People are endowed with rights and allowed privileges (some here don't know the difference). You have a right to feed yourself, so get busy.
The clumbsy nature of big goverment is reflected in the microcosm of local government. We need protections that can only be provided by a body given sufficient authority to do so. That proposal requires the government to exist. However, protection from laziness. There's this really cool thing based on natural selection, the free market. If a person needs wellfare to survive they won't survive in the free market society. Therefore, if they do not survive they can not pass on their indolence and we are left with a citizenry without the need for wellfare.
Minnow spare me the "everything has to do with the man is down on the drugs" garbage line. You're burnt out dude.
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The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy.
Nietzsche
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| Post Number: 18
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 21 2004,9:24 pm |
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Huh? 
Just look at your post man...you can't even form a complete thought before you ramble on to more disconnected thoughts!
You're not burn't, your brain is defective. If you did drugs and went through rehab it wouldn't matter because you can't turn an apple into an orange. Your logic and thought process is retarded and I'm sure it's genetic. You can't teach a dummy to be smart anymore than you can teach someone to have blond hair and blue eyes... 
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| Post Number: 19
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 21 2004,9:41 pm |
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Wow Minnow, you sure respect his opinion, don't you?
I'm so proud of you!
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 20
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Navin
Group: Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Nov. 2003
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Posted on: Mar. 21 2004,10:44 pm |
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Hey Jethro,
It's government not goverment, welfare not wellfare and clumsy has no B in it. You should learn to spell before you correct others.
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