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| Post Number: 41
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cwolff 
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2004,12:37 pm |
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Clovis, conglomorates such as Con Agra, which owns the hog slaughtering plant in Worthington, had a net profit, which of course is after expenses, of between 3 and 4 billion dollars during the last decade. Con Agra of course owns more than just slaughtering plants, but my point is that they can afford to pay higher wages, but why should they if illegal immigrants are willing to work for wages that do not support a family. When I say support a family, I do not mean relying heavily on govermental programs, no health, life, auto, disability, home, or other insurance, no investing for retirement, no 15 people living in a house, nor do I mean anything else which would hinder someone earning poverty wages.
You said to you its a basic issue of human rights, well what do you think I am talking about?
There are several reasons for people to not want these types of jobs, but the biggest reason is that our own local, county, state and federal government stands by and watches these conglomerates change names every 19 or so years so they can start the wage scale over at poverty wages and do not have to pay out any retirements. And people who have put in 19 years of service have to start their years of service over again.
At Worthington, the hog slaughtering plant used to be called Armours and wages were starting to creep up pretty descent, but then the name changed to Monfort and now it is called Swift & Company. Each time the name changed the wage scale changed and started over at poverty wages. Guess who owns these companies? Governmental agencies sure knows who owns these companies, but they continue to look the other way and ignore the problem.
Government knows there are illegal immigrants working at these plants, but they do as little as possible to stop it.
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| Post Number: 42
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Clovis
Unregistered
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2004,12:56 pm |
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Corporate conglomerates are far too prevalent in today's world, agreed. Wal-Mart is the death of most independent retailers, as has been cited so many times in so many places. Anyway.
I think you're right too - companies being bought and sold, and the consequences of that, are a major factor in the wage/benefits problem. Why keep fighting if your company's just going to be bought out and take you down to square one? HOWEVER - I think that part of that problem is just being fueled by Americans' passivity and indifference. So, because people are walking off and giving up on fighting the corporations, the corporations play on the desires of people who are desperate for a better job and better lives.
Illegal immigrants, are NOT generally here to make problems. They are seeking something that's not available in their home countries, no matter the personal cost. They are willing to put up with the corners that get cut safety-wise - maybe because back home, safety standards don't exist and they don't know any better. They are willing to put up with the poor wages that companies offer to them - because it's more than they could earn back home as an uneducated worker. The reason they don't pursue insurance and investing and better living conditions is because they're not making enough to live above the survival level. BUT - the survival level in the US is better than the survival level in MANY, MANY other countries. At least they're fed and clothed adequately!
The government does need to go back and re-examine its anti-trust and corporation laws from the turn of the century - it's starting to look a lot like America's "Gilded Age" again.
Until that happens, we have to face the problem of how to support the consumer-driven life that we as Americans have chosen... which includes the fact that we want the goods but not to work in messy and unsafe conditions to earn the goods - in general, we don't want to know that illegal immigrants are there and providing the basics of our comfy lifestyle.
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| Post Number: 43
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cwolff
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2004,1:09 pm |
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Clovis, I did not mean that the company gets sold from time to time, but I mean that the same conglomerate is allowed to change names, so they can take away from and keep workers in poverty all for the almighty bottom line.
I think that it is great that others can move to the U.S. for a better life, but I think it should be done legally and the jobs they choose to work should be humane and the wages will support a family, but not in poverty.
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| Post Number: 44
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Clovis
Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2004,1:11 pm |
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My point in all that, I guess, is that if you want something to change, get out there and treat the problem, not the symptoms. The problem is that corporations get away with bloody murder when it comes to denying living wages and messing with the lives of loyal employees... and people feel powerless to take the corporations on. The symptoms that make this problem visible include the fact that many illegal workers are hired to fill the gaps in manpower. So it's time for us to go back and take a government class, and then call upon elected officials to investigate and strive for change, not rant and rave against illegal workers.
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. --Antoine de St-Exupéry
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| Post Number: 45
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Clovis
Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2004,1:17 pm |
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cwolff - we had an overlap in postings. Your last post stated your position more clearly than the one I responded to first. I agree with your post of 13:09. Bush's plan (getting back to your original post in this thread) isn't going to change enough for undocumented workers - it doesn't give them any help in becoming citizens and thus leaves them up for continuing to be steamrolled by the corporations.
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. --Antoine de St-Exupéry
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| Post Number: 46
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 09 2004,11:42 am |
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Oh yes...the big bad corporation is the enemy...LOL
The corporations you're crying that don't move off shore. No business owes you or any other white trash a blue collar job.
Want to earn a living earn a skill....oh I see...you gots no skills...tough turkey!
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| Post Number: 47
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Clovis
Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 09 2004,4:52 pm |
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Excuse me, Minnow. If you have something productive to say, then go ahead. However, if all you're going to do is go trolling and name-calling, then please go find yourself another forum in which to do it.
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. --Antoine de St-Exupéry
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| Post Number: 48
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minnow
Group: Members
Posts: 2243
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 09 2004,5:11 pm |
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It's all about skills. You've got to love something or be passionate enough about something to learn to be one of the best at it. You must be able to do something that not very many others can do as well.
If you can do this----->the money will follow. I was poor for 10 years learning my skills. After an incredible amount of work, patience and dedication my skills became so good I'm now one of the best in the world at what I do. I make about $14,000 per month now and plan on doubling that in 2 years.
I know for a fact that never would have happened had I just worked for the money. I would have given up before I struck gold. I know this...
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| Post Number: 49
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Clovis
Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: Feb. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 09 2004,5:29 pm |
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Impressive, then. Thank you for making a civil post explaining your position on this issue.
The reason that I stated that big corporations are bad is that they're destroying hundreds of independent business owners in the process of their expansion. I'd rather enjoy visiting 4 or 5 different businesses where I know the owners and clerks, instead of visiting Wal-Mart *gag* I would argue that skills are increasingly needed to make a living wage and to ensure one's advancement and a thriving business. Not that you absolutely need skills for the workplace - janitors, for example? They specialize in tasks, yes, but you need no particular skills to be a janitor.
And skills/knowledge/expertise, on the other hand, do not guarantee big bucks. I'll put teaching out there as an example.
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. --Antoine de St-Exupéry
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| Post Number: 50
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 09 2004,10:14 pm |
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Minnow, do you teach 'vaporizing' classes at the Minnesota zoo?
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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