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| Post Number: 21
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White Pride 
weißer Stolz
Group: Members
Posts: 897
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Jul. 22 2010,12:59 pm |
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(busybee @ Jul. 22 2010,11:24 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE If I didn't know any better, it sure looked like you were blaming female children under the age of 18 and their parents... 
Sure am
QUOTE "Mutual consent" is not a valid defense or excuse according to how this law is applied. Gender is not a defense of excuse either.
It's an old law and needs to be treated as such by means of bringing it up to speed with society
QUOTE
The numerical age difference between being an adult and a child is what this law addresses.
Age is only a number, and in just a mere 5 years it would not matter by today's laws
QUOTE  Are you seriously trying to tell me that ADULT males over the age of 18 are the victims of entrapment to female children under the age of 18?
ABSOLUTELY
QUOTE I won't choose to understand this point of view about male's over the age of 18 deciding to have intercourse with female children under the age of 18.
It seems to me you are degrading adult males in our society by portraying them as not having the ability to choose a female to have intercourse with.
I don't see adult males in our society as a mindless species without the ability to make decisions for themselves. If you want to push that agenda and blame it on society and females, that's your choice.
Why is 18 the magic number? why not 23, or 32? Have you SEEN how these 18 year olds act? The only reason for this age is so the military can legally send kids into battle. I'm not degrading males, it's simply that it's the women who have the upper hand when it comes to sexuality (aside from rapists). It's predominantly the females who choose the partner, not the other way around. Any female can go to any bar and get some, same can not be said for any male.
Not all laws are correct, and this is one that needs "tweaking"
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Dr. Pride here
I'm an ENGLISH speaking white GERMAN-AMERICAN, and DAMN PROUD OF IT!
What bothers people more... the fact others disagree w/them, or that the others just might be right after all?
If you're being stupid, acting stupid, or just plain stupid, I will not hesitate to let u know!
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| Post Number: 22
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alcitizens
Albert Lea
Group: Members
Posts: 3664
Joined: Jul. 2009
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Posted on: Jul. 22 2010,5:51 pm |
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(Botto 82 @ Jul. 22 2010,12:53 pm)
QUOTE Suppose I have a hot girlfriend who, in the course of getting ready for work, walks around the house buck naked, all the while expressing her more-than-positive feelings for yours truly while running a bath, washing her hair, and so on. To hear you tell it, I now have license to grab her, throw her down on the bed, and have my way with her
Oh! The good ole days.. 
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| Post Number: 23
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jul. 23 2010,8:29 pm |
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QUOTE Why is 18 the magic number? why not 23, or 32?
I'm surprised you went UP in age, considering you want to believe adult decision making skills and physical growth are fully mature in "females specifically" at the age of 13.
Do you think parents want to financially support and be legally responsible for their children until the age of 23 or 32?
Granted, I think 18 is sometimes too young to declare a person an adult, but 23 and 32 would be too old in my opinion.
QUOTE Have you SEEN how these 18 year olds act? The only reason for this age is so the military can legally send kids into battle.
Sure have and there's more responsible 18 year olds than irresponsible ones.
That's why I don't believe laws need to be changed to appease the irresponsible and unaccountable 18 year olds.
QUOTE I'm not degrading males, it's simply that it's the women who have the upper hand when it comes to sexuality (aside from rapists).
When exactly did females of any age get the upper hand when it comes to sexuality and use it against males?
QUOTE It's predominantly the females who choose the partner, not the other way around.
I think the choice is between ADULTS making a mutual decision, but if you want to give all of the control and credit to adult females for having decision making skills that adult males don't...so be it.
QUOTE Any female can go to any bar and get some, same can not be said for any male.
It used to be that any male could go to any bar and get some as long as they paid for the service to go to the "private room." A female could service up to 70 males in a day. 
It sure wasn't the way females dressed in the past at the bars that made males lose control and spend their money to get some. Females wore more clothing to cover themselves then they do today.
And, although film makers would like to con males and females in the society to believe these service females from the past all looked like playboy centerfolds...they didn't.
QUOTE Not all laws are correct, and this is one that needs "tweaking"
It needs tweaking because not enough adult males 21 and over are getting some from adult females 21 and over when they go to the bars?
It needs tweaking because of how female children under the age of 18 dress?
I believe it's a crime for a 18 year old adult to have intercourse with a 13 year old child. At the age of 13 male and female children have a lot of growing left to do, physically, emotionally, cognitively, socially, ect...
5 years makes a HUGE difference before age 18 than it ever will from the age of 18 and up whether you want to admit it or not.
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| Post Number: 24
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OEF_Soldier
Group: Members
Posts: 443
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Jul. 23 2010,10:03 pm |
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QUOTE If I didn't know any better, it sure looked like you were blaming female children under the age of 18 and their parents...
Yep I do blame the parents as well as the kids for the kind of behaviour that has become typical of todays youth and this includes both males and females. If parents took care to notice what is going on in their kids world these days perhaps the kids would have more respect for each other and for themselves.
QUOTE Are you seriously trying to tell me that ADULT males over the age of 18 are the victims of entrapment to female children under the age of 18?
Whether or not you care to admit it BB this most likely happens more than is made public. Many females under the age of 18 do dress to make themselves appear older than they actually are. I have seen some of my step sons female friends and if they had not told me how old they were I would have guessed them to be older by at least 2 - 3 years.
QUOTE 5 years makes a HUGE difference before age 18 than it ever will from the age of 18 and up whether you want to admit it or not.
And yet in the case of children deciding which parent they wish to live with the courts have determined that a 13 or 14 year old can make that legal and binding decision over the wishes of the other parent. A child at that age is cognizant of the ramifications of such a decision and yet in the case of something like sex it is completely different. Todays youth are more aware of their sexuality then those of even 10 years ago. Television, the movies and music videos all bring the subject of sex out at an age that many of us would never have seen at that age.
What WP is saying is that despite what is ingrained into our sense of values many young girls do use their sexuality and looks to get something they want. Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13. Does this make it right? No it does not due to our laws but as WP said it is high time that some of these laws get a cold review in order to bring them up to more modern times. It is also wrong for us to hold only the male guilty of this when we do not know the full extent of what happened. He broke the law and that I do not dispute but what was her part in it is the unknown in this case. Whether or not you care to admit it BB a 13 year old is quite aware of her sexuality and will use it if she wants something bad enough.
The movie Disclosure is a good one in regards to this conversation with regards to what our belief system holds us too. Michael Douglas and Demi Moore and he is accused of sexual harassment when it is really HER that is guilty. In the end he gets justice but throughout the movie people find it difficult to believe that a female could be guilty of a typically "MALE" crime.
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I've upped my standards so....UP YOURS !!!
My deepest feeling about politicians is that they are dangerous lunatics to be avoided when possible and carefully humored; people, above all, to whom one must never tell the truth. (W. H. Auden)
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| Post Number: 25
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jul. 24 2010,5:39 pm |
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QUOTE Yep I do blame the parents as well as the kids for the kind of behaviour that has become typical of todays youth and this includes both males and females. If parents took care to notice what is going on in their kids world these days perhaps the kids would have more respect for each other and for themselves.
I don't view today's youth as chronically problematic, nor do I think today's parents are the root of problematic youth either.
QUOTE Whether or not you care to admit it BB this most likely happens more than is made public. Many females under the age of 18 do dress to make themselves appear older than they actually are. I have seen some of my step sons female friends and if they had not told me how old they were I would have guessed them to be older by at least 2 - 3 years.
Many males under the age of 18 dress older than they really are, shave even if they don't have to and put on cologne to attract older females.
What child under the age of 18 doesn't want to be older than they really are?
QUOTE And yet in the case of children deciding which parent they wish to live with the courts have determined that a 13 or 14 year old can make that legal and binding decision over the wishes of the other parent. A child at that age is cognizant of the ramifications of such a decision and yet in the case of something like sex it is completely different.
I'm not sure what other states do, but in MN custody determination is based upon a number of factors and only ONE of those factors is the preference of a child. As far as I know, children can say what they want, but that is not what is supposed to guarantee custody to one parent over the other.
I don't see it as different because if a civil court system is allowing children to make ADULT decisions, that is wrong. I don't believe a child at the age of 13 or 14 DOES understand the consequences of deciding which parent is the better parent for them to live with.
QUOTE Todays youth are more aware of their sexuality then those of even 10 years ago. Television, the movies and music videos all bring the subject of sex out at an age that many of us would never have seen at that age.
Thus, adults should be more aware now compared to 10 years ago also.
QUOTE What WP is saying is that despite what is ingrained into our sense of values many young girls do use their sexuality and looks to get something they want. Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13. Does this make it right? No it does not due to our laws but as WP said it is high time that some of these laws get a cold review in order to bring them up to more modern times. It is also wrong for us to hold only the male guilty of this when we do not know the full extent of what happened. He broke the law and that I do not dispute but what was her part in it is the unknown in this case. Whether or not you care to admit it BB a 13 year old is quite aware of her sexuality and will use it if she wants something bad enough.
I'm not disputing that a 13 year old girl would never choose to be a willing participant in intercourse with an adult male.
I am disputing the gender bias and generalization about females.
Why choose to assume and accuse this 13 year old girl of dressing in a suggestive manner, being flirtatious, having full awareness of her sexuality and how to use it with adult males to get what she wants, and that her daddy's in denial about who she is?
I could choose to believe and state a gender bias and claim that only adult males are pedophiles. I could assume and accuse the adult male in this case of having pedophile characteristics; such as dressing younger than his age, being flirtatious with females under the age of 18, being fully aware of his sexuality and how to use it to get what he wants from females under the age of 18, and his mommy is in denial about her son wanting to have sex with 13 year old little girls even though it's against the law.
What purpose does it serve either way to attack and choose one gender's side over the other?
Gender biases are destructive.
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| Post Number: 26
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OEF_Soldier
Group: Members
Posts: 443
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Jul. 24 2010,9:07 pm |
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You said...
QUOTE Why choose to assume and accuse this 13 year old girl of dressing in a suggestive manner, being flirtatious, having full awareness of her sexuality and how to use it with adult males to get what she wants, and that her daddy's in denial about who she is?
I said...
QUOTE Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13.
Please show me where I am assuming or accusing anything in what I said. Please show me where anything I said in the above quote is not true. BTW I didn't say daddy was in denial I said that it would be hard for many people to think that DADDY'S LITTLE GIRL would willingly do such a thing.
Please understand that I am by no means casting this 13 year old girl as having done anything like what I am saying but you must admit that even the thought of such a thing happening is quite outrageous to most people.
What I AM saying is that our beliefs cause us to doubt that a 13 year old girl could have done anything to cause this situation to occur. Ask a guy if they would admit that they had been raped by a woman and I would be willing to bet that most would say no. It is that macho image that guys wish to protect that keeps them from admitting something that their friends would see as weakness. It is this same line of thinking that keeps us from thinking that a girl, even a 13 year old, could have had any part in this and thus the guy is the one who gets charged and the girl is allowed to go without a second look.
Yes boys do dress to make themselves appear older for the same reasons as girls do but guys do not tend to go after older women near as much as younger girls go after older men. It's that "Sugar-Daddy" thing that they go looking for and if they think they have a chance at snagging a "Sugar-Daddy" they will do whatever they think they have to to try and get him. It is a proven scientific fact that girls mature quicker than guys so it is more likely a girl will look and act older than she actually is and use that on an older guy.
QUOTE I am disputing the gender bias and generalization about females.
I'm disputing the thought and beliefs that cause us to think that a girl as young as 13 could not have been the one who actually instigated this issue that caused this young man to get charged with the crime he did. Again it is our belief system that forces us to look at the male as the one who is guilty and not even give the female a second glance. Women tend to be quite cruel and vicious when they are denied something they believe they are owed. If a man and a woman are involved in a serious crime involving murder, assault etc the guy will get looked at as the perpetrator of the vicious crime and be the prime suspect because women are not supposed to have such dark emotions as a man would. Even if the woman was the guilty party it still goes against our belief system to think a woman could cause such a vicious crime.
You wish us to stop using generalizations and stereotypes about women then stop thinking in the conventional way when in reality women can be more than just the weaker sex and many times they are the more "evil" of the two.
Here's a thought for you BB. A child as young as 13 can be tried as an Adult for crimes such as murder but yet the age of consent for sexual activity is many years older. A child can be smart enough to have committed murder and yet not be smart enough to consent to have sex. Another thought is that had the male in this case been even 16 or 17 he could have still been charged with the same crime due to the age gap between him and her.
The laws are significantly biased against men and this is based on archaic beliefs that have not kept up with the modern age. Again what he did is wrong based on our current legal system but perhaps it is time to change the laws to some degree.
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I've upped my standards so....UP YOURS !!!
My deepest feeling about politicians is that they are dangerous lunatics to be avoided when possible and carefully humored; people, above all, to whom one must never tell the truth. (W. H. Auden)
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| Post Number: 27
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canvasback
Group: Members
Posts: 416
Joined: Oct. 2007
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Posted on: Jul. 24 2010,9:21 pm |
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OEF...go find a plaster wall, bang your head against it several times....it is the same as debating anything with the queen bee without the typing!
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| Post Number: 28
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White Pride
weißer Stolz
Group: Members
Posts: 897
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Jul. 25 2010,12:04 am |
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(canvasback @ Jul. 24 2010,9:21 pm)
QUOTE OEF...go find a plaster wall, bang your head against it several times...it is the same as debating anything with the queen bee without the typing!
Unfortunately this is so true. Busybee is so thick-headed that no amount of reason, logic, or accountability will ever get through to her. In her eyes, men are the ultimate evil and need to pay for their penises. She let one abuse her for far too long that now all men must pay. I feel sorry for men in her world.
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Dr. Pride here
I'm an ENGLISH speaking white GERMAN-AMERICAN, and DAMN PROUD OF IT!
What bothers people more... the fact others disagree w/them, or that the others just might be right after all?
If you're being stupid, acting stupid, or just plain stupid, I will not hesitate to let u know!
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| Post Number: 29
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| Post Number: 30
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jul. 25 2010,3:37 am |
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Canvas & White Pride,
Ahhh...yes...the PERSONAL ATTACKS on my character when I am NOT DISPUTING nor have I EVER DISPUTED that some women treat men bad isn't THICK HEADED on either of YOUR PARTS??? 
I have NOT ONCE stated I hate men. As a matter of fact I have stated that I know more good men than not so good.
Sure, I don't have any trouble speaking out about my children and I being abused by ONE man. Yes, I agree some women do choose to hate all men after being abused by one man (children or not). I choose NOT to be that type of woman.
I'm not pretending to KNOW either of YOU, how you think, feel, live and influence others in your life OUTSIDE of this discussion forum because of the opinions and what you choose to write here...including those you are claiming to have about me.
I challenge people on here...I always have and it doesn't matter the gender I believe a poster to be.
I do not and will not own, no matter anyone's accusations and assumptions, having a hidden agenda and belief against all men because I am not ashamed to state I have had first hand experience with one man's poor choices.
I am grateful that I have always been capable of respecting all men, including the one man who abused our children and I. Doesn't mean I trust that one man, yet I sure as hell am not ever going to grant him the power and control over what I believe about all men. It would be sad if I couldn't see or believe there's good in other men just because of one man's poor choices, lack of accountability and responsibility.
I don't expect either of you to believe me because I don't think you can risk believing that any woman who speaks about being abused by one man is capable of being anything except what you decide she is to ALL MEN.
What's crazy about this is...first it is asserted and accused that I brought up domestic abuse/violence and related it to myself too often on here and when I don't choose to bring it up at all, some posters follow me to threads and choose to bring up the domestic abuse/violence relating to me anyway.
I guess some people on here aren't ever happy, no matter what you do or don't do.
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