Topic: Man sentenced for having sex with teen
started by: gijoeman
Posted by gijoeman on Jul. 19 2010,2:36 am
Man sentenced for having sex with teenBy Mike Rose | Austin Daily Herald
Published Saturday, July 17, 2010
An Austin man who had intercourse with a 13-year-old girl two years ago was sentenced to 10 years probation and a 30-day Sentence-to-Serve term Friday in Mower County court.
"As part of his probation, Alex William Holtzworth, 22, will not be allowed to contact the victim. He will also register with the predatory offender list and enroll in sex offender classes.
According to a criminal complaint, Holtzworth had sex with the teenager six times over two days in March 2008, the first time coming during a house party held in Austin.
Holtzworth admitted to police that he had sex with the girl, the complaint states. He said she first told him she was 15, then told him she was 14."
Holtzworth had sex with the teenager six times over two days in March 2008, the first time coming during a house party held in Austin.
Oh please! Do we really need to know this information. Are you sure this was the first time that he [word removed]?
Seriously, we can't let these young people go about there lives and continue on? Well, we can't for one of them, right? The young man in this case must be deemed a sex predator and have his life and future completely destroyed?
Why, what purpose does that serve? Is this guy really a pedophile predator? C'mon...He was 19 and a male. He was young and horny and so was she. This has been going on since the beginning of time.
So now we must turn this person into a lifelong criminal, spend a million dollars and all because why again? Let's see...um because some voter is scared his daughter might get boned by some big strapping young guy and the father wants to make him pay dearly in some way?
The whole thing is just too bazaar for words. I don't see what were doing is any different than what the despised Taliban does.
This kid isn't a preditor, he's a human male. He didn't go off the deep end...we did.
Posted by USMC5811 on Jul. 19 2010,2:53 am
You're truly screwed up.
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 19 2010,2:55 am
You are frikin 
Posted by McGeek on Jul. 19 2010,10:04 am
Posted by hairhertz on Jul. 19 2010,11:09 am
Do you have children, GIJoe? No way a 19 year old would get near my daughter if she was only 13!
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 19 2010,7:19 pm
For Boyenga to have a kid, he would first have to have sex. In spite of the region's burgeoning quantity of dumpy single moms with self-esteem issues, that ain't happening.
Given his long-standing obsession with Miley Cyrus, I can understand why El Douche thinks it's okay for an ADULT MALE to have sex with a kid barely out of her tween years.
Crawl back under whatever rock you slithered from, Billy.
Posted by Fighting Yeti on Jul. 20 2010,3:31 pm
He can't...the police seized it along with the rest of his stuff.
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 20 2010,11:55 pm
Maybe it's time PARENTS start taking the heat for letting their teen girls out wearing nothing but underwear. Maybe it's time PARENTS start teaching their girls about VALUES. Maybe it's time that society recognizes that kids these days are more sexually mature earlier than the parents were. Maybe, just maybe, if the mexican influence of "la quinceanera" should be more closely examined (it is, after all, the rite of passage of sexual maturity of the female in mexican culture) AND ABOLISHED!
Posted by Common Citizen on Jul. 21 2010,8:54 pm
Devils advocate... 
...on the other hand...a 19 year old isn't allowed to sit at the bar and wait for the next hag to walk in...so you end up at an underage party where all the gals (your age and younger) are dressed about the same...same hair-do...same make-up...and wham-o...5.0 is on your door step after remorse sets in when the young gal attends church with the family the next day.
just something to consider since no one knows the whole story and just bassing our opinions on info from the fishwrap...
Posted by USMC5811 on Jul. 21 2010,9:42 pm
So not being old enough to sit in a bar is the excuse for Statutory rape?
Posted by busybee on Jul. 21 2010,11:51 pm
QUOTE
Seriously, we can't let these young people go about there lives and continue on? Well, we can't for one of them, right? The young man in this case must be deemed a sex predator and have his life and future completely destroyed?
His life and future is not destroyed, nor is he deemed a sex predator for life...unless he doesn't abide by the PROMISES he made to the District Court through the plea bargain he chose.
QUOTE
Why, what purpose does that serve? Is this guy really a pedophile predator?
That has yet to be determined...
That's why this guy is allowed to PLEA BARGAIN and BE an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT with a SAY of whether or not HE is capable of COMPLYING with PROBATION CONDITIONS instead of going to TRIAL.
QUOTE
C'mon...He was 19 and a male. He was young and horny and so was she. This has been going on since the beginning of time.
This isn't the beginning of time anymore.
It's against the law for 19 year old ADULTS to have intercourse with 13 year old CHILDREN now (the present)...something this 19 year old male could have respected as the majority of 19 year old males make the choice to do.
Being a 19 year old horny male ADULT is not an excuse to have intercourse with a 13 year old female CHILD more than once.
QUOTE
So now we must turn this person into a lifelong criminal, spend a million dollars and all because why again?
"WE" didn't turn this person into a lifelong criminal and I don't understand why you're claiming this.
Mr. Holtzworth plea bargained right?
He made the choice to PROMISE to be law-abiding, meet and follow through with the conditions of probation, rather than choosing to go to trial with a Jury of his peers or with a Judge and risk being incarcerated.
If Mr. Holtzworth follows what he PROMISED as the article you posted explains... "As part of his probation, Alex William Holtzworth, 22, will not be allowed to contact the victim. He will also register with the predatory offender list and enroll in sex offender classes..."
you're "friend's LIFE" is NOT ruined forever by no means of society, the legal or judicial system...
You do understand that "you're friend" could even be RELEASED of his probation EARLY and ask for the charges to be VACATED entirely IF he takes 100% responsibility for HIS choice as an ADULT!
Probation is the CHANCE Mr. Holtzworth is afforded by the U.S. Judicial System to PROVE himself to have been nothing more than an "innocent" 19 year old horny adult male who made the poor choice to have intercourse with the same 13 year old female child more than once.
No matter how much YOU try to "criminalize" the Judicial System, Laws and SOCIETY in this case...if Mr. Holtzworth screws up his probation and doesn't PROVE himself worthy of PROBATION...that will be HIS PERSONAL CHOICE & FAILURE...NO ONE ELSE'S!!!!
Posted by canvasback on Jul. 22 2010,12:00 am
What gets lost in this equation is the fact that a 19 year old can be only 13 -15 emotionally. I have done many evals. just like this, and after talking to the person you would think they were 14. Late emotional development tends to be more prevelant in males. (I give you gijoeman). Anyway, just something else to consider.
Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,12:12 am
QUOTE
Maybe it's time PARENTS start taking the heat for letting their teen girls out wearing nothing but underwear. Maybe it's time PARENTS start teaching their girls about VALUES. Maybe it's time that society recognizes that kids these days are more sexually mature earlier than the parents were. Maybe, just maybe, if the mexican influence of "la quinceanera" should be more closely examined (it is, after all, the rite of passage of sexual maturity of the female in mexican culture) AND ABOLISHED!
Maybe it's time for PARENTS to START taking the heat for letting their teen boys out thinking they have the right to have intercourse with any female that looks like it's over 18 and doesn't prove they are wearing underwear?
Maybe it's time for PARENTS to start teaching their BOYS about VALUES...that how a female dresses isn't an invitation for intercourse with a U.S. male, no matter their age, economic status, race, authority, ect...
Maybe it's time for the U.S. Citizens & Society to recognize that being 18 years is the AGE of ADULT consent and there is NO EXCUSE for an U.S. citizen to take advantage of another U.S. Citizen because they are not of this LEGAL ADULT AGE CONSENT yet.
Other Countries outside the U.S. need not apply to change or alter the rules/laws the U.S. of America pursues with it's OWN CITIZENS!
Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,12:17 am
QUOTE
What gets lost in this equation is the fact that a 19 year old can be only 13 -15 emotionally. I have done many evals. just like this, and after talking to the person you would think they were 14. Late emotional development tends to be more prevelant in males. (I give you gijoeman). Anyway, just something else to consider.
I understand completely!!!
Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,12:29 am
QUOTE
For Boyenga to have a kid, he would first have to have sex.
What makes you believe the person posting under Gijoeman is Boyenga?
I asked the same ? when poster's on A.L. Com claimed TTT was Boyenga.
Maybe I am out of the "loop" here because I just "post my thoughts & opinions" and don't really CARE who so & so is for REAL on A.L. Com.
I know I don't have time, nor do I care to spew the ASSUMPTION that I know someone else's "crap" better than they do on this discussion forum...
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 22 2010,12:49 am
Gijoeman or Boyenga's crap is an open book of how to germinate, plant, harvest, hang and dry. 
Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,1:45 am
...A.L. Citizen!
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 22 2010,2:44 am
(busybee @ Jul. 22 2010,12:12 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Maybe it's time PARENTS start taking the heat for letting their teen girls out wearing nothing but underwear. Maybe it's time PARENTS start teaching their girls about VALUES. Maybe it's time that society recognizes that kids these days are more sexually mature earlier than the parents were. Maybe, just maybe, if the mexican influence of "la quinceanera" should be more closely examined (it is, after all, the rite of passage of sexual maturity of the female in mexican culture) AND ABOLISHED!
Maybe it's time for PARENTS to START taking the heat for letting their teen boys out thinking they have the right to have intercourse with any female that looks like it's over 18 and doesn't prove they are wearing underwear?
Maybe it's time for PARENTS to start teaching their BOYS about VALUES...that how a female dresses isn't an invitation for intercourse with a U.S. male, no matter their age, economic status, race, authority, ect...
Maybe it's time for the U.S. Citizens & Society to recognize that being 18 years is the AGE of ADULT consent and there is NO EXCUSE for an U.S. citizen to take advantage of another U.S. Citizen because they are not of this LEGAL ADULT AGE CONSENT yet.
Other Countries outside the U.S. need not apply to change or alter the rules/laws the U.S. of America pursues with it's OWN CITIZENS!
If I didn't know any better, it sure would look like you are blaming the male here... I'd be willing to bet that it was mutual consent that brought these two together, and kept it going repeatedly. To imply it was the male's fault is a bit stereotypical, to say the least. Have you bothered to see how these young women advertise? I would say that would border on the line of entrapment. Just take a look at the natural world, will you? When species of all life forms want sex, they display their goods. OUR society has the females doing the MAJORITY of the advertising. When a female, regardless of age, wears tight, push-up type underwear under low-cut tops and high-cut shorts, what heterosexual male isn't going to take notice? Add to the mix a bit of outright flirtation and perhaps touching, and it's next to impossible to think with the right "mind." But, since you are who you are, I don't think you can ever understand this point of view.
Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,11:24 am
QUOTE
If I didn't know any better, it sure would look like you are blaming the male here...
If I didn't know any better, it sure looked like you were blaming female children under the age of 18 and their parents...
QUOTE
I'd be willing to bet that it was mutual consent that brought these two together, and kept it going repeatedly.
"Mutual consent" is not a valid defense or excuse according to how this law is applied. Gender is not a defense of excuse either.
The numerical age difference between being an adult and a child is what this law addresses.
QUOTE
To imply it was the male's fault is a bit stereotypical, to say the least.
To imply that a 13 year old female child is half to blame for a 19 year old adult male's choice to break the law is a bit stereotypical.
QUOTE
Have you bothered to see how these young women advertise? I would say that would border on the line of entrapment.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that ADULT males over the age of 18 are the victims of entrapment to female children under the age of 18?
QUOTE
Just take a look at the natural world, will you? When species of all life forms want sex, they display their goods. OUR society has the females doing the MAJORITY of the advertising. When a female, regardless of age, wears tight, push-up type underwear under low-cut tops and high-cut shorts, what heterosexual male isn't going to take notice? Add to the mix a bit of outright flirtation and perhaps touching, and it's next to impossible to think with the right "mind."
Yep...seems that's what you are trying to tell me.
QUOTE
But, since you are who you are, I don't think you can ever understand this point of view.
I like who I am and you're correct...I won't choose to understand this point of view about male's over the age of 18 deciding to have intercourse with female children under the age of 18.
It seems to me you are degrading adult males in our society by portraying them as not having the ability to choose a female to have intercourse with.
I don't see adult males in our society as a mindless species without the ability to make decisions for themselves. If you want to push that agenda and blame it on society and females, that's your choice.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 22 2010,12:53 pm
(White Pride @ Jul. 22 2010,2:44 am)
QUOTE
When a female, regardless of age, wears tight, push-up type underwear under low-cut tops and high-cut shorts, what heterosexual male isn't going to take notice? Add to the mix a bit of outright flirtation and perhaps touching, and it's next to impossible to think with the right "mind."
Suppose I have a hot girlfriend who, in the course of getting ready for work, walks around the house buck naked, all the while expressing her more-than-positive feelings for yours truly while running a bath, washing her hair, and so on. To hear you tell it, I now have license to grab her, throw her down on the bed, and have my way with her, whether she really wants to or not, and subsequently blame her for that.
If that's what you're trying to say, then you really did fall out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down...
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 22 2010,12:59 pm
(busybee @ Jul. 22 2010,11:24 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
If I didn't know any better, it sure looked like you were blaming female children under the age of 18 and their parents...
Sure am
QUOTE
"Mutual consent" is not a valid defense or excuse according to how this law is applied. Gender is not a defense of excuse either.
It's an old law and needs to be treated as such by means of bringing it up to speed with society
QUOTE
The numerical age difference between being an adult and a child is what this law addresses.
Age is only a number, and in just a mere 5 years it would not matter by today's laws
QUOTE
Are you seriously trying to tell me that ADULT males over the age of 18 are the victims of entrapment to female children under the age of 18?
ABSOLUTELY
QUOTE
I won't choose to understand this point of view about male's over the age of 18 deciding to have intercourse with female children under the age of 18.
It seems to me you are degrading adult males in our society by portraying them as not having the ability to choose a female to have intercourse with.
I don't see adult males in our society as a mindless species without the ability to make decisions for themselves. If you want to push that agenda and blame it on society and females, that's your choice.
It seems to me you are degrading adult males in our society by portraying them as not having the ability to choose a female to have intercourse with.
I don't see adult males in our society as a mindless species without the ability to make decisions for themselves. If you want to push that agenda and blame it on society and females, that's your choice.
Why is 18 the magic number? why not 23, or 32? Have you SEEN how these 18 year olds act? The only reason for this age is so the military can legally send kids into battle. I'm not degrading males, it's simply that it's the women who have the upper hand when it comes to sexuality (aside from rapists). It's predominantly the females who choose the partner, not the other way around. Any female can go to any bar and get some, same can not be said for any male.
Not all laws are correct, and this is one that needs "tweaking"
Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 22 2010,5:51 pm
(Botto 82 @ Jul. 22 2010,12:53 pm)
QUOTE
Suppose I have a hot girlfriend who, in the course of getting ready for work, walks around the house buck naked, all the while expressing her more-than-positive feelings for yours truly while running a bath, washing her hair, and so on. To hear you tell it, I now have license to grab her, throw her down on the bed, and have my way with her
Oh! The good ole days..
Posted by busybee on Jul. 23 2010,8:29 pm
QUOTE
Why is 18 the magic number? why not 23, or 32?
I'm surprised you went UP in age, considering you want to believe adult decision making skills and physical growth are fully mature in "females specifically" at the age of 13.
Do you think parents want to financially support and be legally responsible for their children until the age of 23 or 32?
Granted, I think 18 is sometimes too young to declare a person an adult, but 23 and 32 would be too old in my opinion.
QUOTE
Have you SEEN how these 18 year olds act? The only reason for this age is so the military can legally send kids into battle.
Sure have and there's more responsible 18 year olds than irresponsible ones.
That's why I don't believe laws need to be changed to appease the irresponsible and unaccountable 18 year olds.
QUOTE
I'm not degrading males, it's simply that it's the women who have the upper hand when it comes to sexuality (aside from rapists).
When exactly did females of any age get the upper hand when it comes to sexuality and use it against males?
QUOTE
It's predominantly the females who choose the partner, not the other way around.
I think the choice is between ADULTS making a mutual decision, but if you want to give all of the control and credit to adult females for having decision making skills that adult males don't...so be it.
QUOTE
Any female can go to any bar and get some, same can not be said for any male.
It used to be that any male could go to any bar and get some as long as they paid for the service to go to the "private room." A female could service up to 70 males in a day.
It sure wasn't the way females dressed in the past at the bars that made males lose control and spend their money to get some. Females wore more clothing to cover themselves then they do today.
And, although film makers would like to con males and females in the society to believe these service females from the past all looked like playboy centerfolds...they didn't.
QUOTE
Not all laws are correct, and this is one that needs "tweaking"
It needs tweaking because not enough adult males 21 and over are getting some from adult females 21 and over when they go to the bars?
It needs tweaking because of how female children under the age of 18 dress?
I believe it's a crime for a 18 year old adult to have intercourse with a 13 year old child. At the age of 13 male and female children have a lot of growing left to do, physically, emotionally, cognitively, socially, ect...
5 years makes a HUGE difference before age 18 than it ever will from the age of 18 and up whether you want to admit it or not.
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 23 2010,10:03 pm
QUOTE
If I didn't know any better, it sure looked like you were blaming female children under the age of 18 and their parents...
Yep I do blame the parents as well as the kids for the kind of behaviour that has become typical of todays youth and this includes both males and females. If parents took care to notice what is going on in their kids world these days perhaps the kids would have more respect for each other and for themselves.
QUOTE
Are you seriously trying to tell me that ADULT males over the age of 18 are the victims of entrapment to female children under the age of 18?
Whether or not you care to admit it BB this most likely happens more than is made public. Many females under the age of 18 do dress to make themselves appear older than they actually are. I have seen some of my step sons female friends and if they had not told me how old they were I would have guessed them to be older by at least 2 - 3 years.
QUOTE
5 years makes a HUGE difference before age 18 than it ever will from the age of 18 and up whether you want to admit it or not.
And yet in the case of children deciding which parent they wish to live with the courts have determined that a 13 or 14 year old can make that legal and binding decision over the wishes of the other parent. A child at that age is cognizant of the ramifications of such a decision and yet in the case of something like sex it is completely different. Todays youth are more aware of their sexuality then those of even 10 years ago. Television, the movies and music videos all bring the subject of sex out at an age that many of us would never have seen at that age.
What WP is saying is that despite what is ingrained into our sense of values many young girls do use their sexuality and looks to get something they want. Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13. Does this make it right? No it does not due to our laws but as WP said it is high time that some of these laws get a cold review in order to bring them up to more modern times. It is also wrong for us to hold only the male guilty of this when we do not know the full extent of what happened. He broke the law and that I do not dispute but what was her part in it is the unknown in this case. Whether or not you care to admit it BB a 13 year old is quite aware of her sexuality and will use it if she wants something bad enough.
The movie Disclosure is a good one in regards to this conversation with regards to what our belief system holds us too. Michael Douglas and Demi Moore and he is accused of sexual harassment when it is really HER that is guilty. In the end he gets justice but throughout the movie people find it difficult to believe that a female could be guilty of a typically "MALE" crime.
Posted by busybee on Jul. 24 2010,5:39 pm
QUOTE
Yep I do blame the parents as well as the kids for the kind of behaviour that has become typical of todays youth and this includes both males and females. If parents took care to notice what is going on in their kids world these days perhaps the kids would have more respect for each other and for themselves.
I don't view today's youth as chronically problematic, nor do I think today's parents are the root of problematic youth either.
QUOTE
Whether or not you care to admit it BB this most likely happens more than is made public. Many females under the age of 18 do dress to make themselves appear older than they actually are. I have seen some of my step sons female friends and if they had not told me how old they were I would have guessed them to be older by at least 2 - 3 years.
Many males under the age of 18 dress older than they really are, shave even if they don't have to and put on cologne to attract older females.
What child under the age of 18 doesn't want to be older than they really are?
QUOTE
And yet in the case of children deciding which parent they wish to live with the courts have determined that a 13 or 14 year old can make that legal and binding decision over the wishes of the other parent. A child at that age is cognizant of the ramifications of such a decision and yet in the case of something like sex it is completely different.
I'm not sure what other states do, but in MN custody determination is based upon a number of factors and only ONE of those factors is the preference of a child. As far as I know, children can say what they want, but that is not what is supposed to guarantee custody to one parent over the other.
I don't see it as different because if a civil court system is allowing children to make ADULT decisions, that is wrong. I don't believe a child at the age of 13 or 14 DOES understand the consequences of deciding which parent is the better parent for them to live with.
QUOTE
Todays youth are more aware of their sexuality then those of even 10 years ago. Television, the movies and music videos all bring the subject of sex out at an age that many of us would never have seen at that age.
Thus, adults should be more aware now compared to 10 years ago also.
QUOTE
What WP is saying is that despite what is ingrained into our sense of values many young girls do use their sexuality and looks to get something they want. Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13. Does this make it right? No it does not due to our laws but as WP said it is high time that some of these laws get a cold review in order to bring them up to more modern times. It is also wrong for us to hold only the male guilty of this when we do not know the full extent of what happened. He broke the law and that I do not dispute but what was her part in it is the unknown in this case. Whether or not you care to admit it BB a 13 year old is quite aware of her sexuality and will use it if she wants something bad enough.
I'm not disputing that a 13 year old girl would never choose to be a willing participant in intercourse with an adult male.
I am disputing the gender bias and generalization about females.
Why choose to assume and accuse this 13 year old girl of dressing in a suggestive manner, being flirtatious, having full awareness of her sexuality and how to use it with adult males to get what she wants, and that her daddy's in denial about who she is?
I could choose to believe and state a gender bias and claim that only adult males are pedophiles. I could assume and accuse the adult male in this case of having pedophile characteristics; such as dressing younger than his age, being flirtatious with females under the age of 18, being fully aware of his sexuality and how to use it to get what he wants from females under the age of 18, and his mommy is in denial about her son wanting to have sex with 13 year old little girls even though it's against the law.
What purpose does it serve either way to attack and choose one gender's side over the other?
Gender biases are destructive.
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 24 2010,9:07 pm
You said...QUOTE
Why choose to assume and accuse this 13 year old girl of dressing in a suggestive manner, being flirtatious, having full awareness of her sexuality and how to use it with adult males to get what she wants, and that her daddy's in denial about who she is?
I said...
QUOTE
Either through wearing clothes that are suggestive or flirting and giving mixed signals it happens. Unfortunately due to our sense of values it becomes hard for adults to think that daddy's little girl could have willingly taken part in having sex at the age of 13.
Please show me where I am assuming or accusing anything in what I said. Please show me where anything I said in the above quote is not true. BTW I didn't say daddy was in denial I said that it would be hard for many people to think that DADDY'S LITTLE GIRL would willingly do such a thing.
Please understand that I am by no means casting this 13 year old girl as having done anything like what I am saying but you must admit that even the thought of such a thing happening is quite outrageous to most people.
What I AM saying is that our beliefs cause us to doubt that a 13 year old girl could have done anything to cause this situation to occur. Ask a guy if they would admit that they had been raped by a woman and I would be willing to bet that most would say no. It is that macho image that guys wish to protect that keeps them from admitting something that their friends would see as weakness. It is this same line of thinking that keeps us from thinking that a girl, even a 13 year old, could have had any part in this and thus the guy is the one who gets charged and the girl is allowed to go without a second look.
Yes boys do dress to make themselves appear older for the same reasons as girls do but guys do not tend to go after older women near as much as younger girls go after older men. It's that "Sugar-Daddy" thing that they go looking for and if they think they have a chance at snagging a "Sugar-Daddy" they will do whatever they think they have to to try and get him. It is a proven scientific fact that girls mature quicker than guys so it is more likely a girl will look and act older than she actually is and use that on an older guy.
QUOTE
I am disputing the gender bias and generalization about females.
I'm disputing the thought and beliefs that cause us to think that a girl as young as 13 could not have been the one who actually instigated this issue that caused this young man to get charged with the crime he did. Again it is our belief system that forces us to look at the male as the one who is guilty and not even give the female a second glance. Women tend to be quite cruel and vicious when they are denied something they believe they are owed. If a man and a woman are involved in a serious crime involving murder, assault etc the guy will get looked at as the perpetrator of the vicious crime and be the prime suspect because women are not supposed to have such dark emotions as a man would. Even if the woman was the guilty party it still goes against our belief system to think a woman could cause such a vicious crime.
You wish us to stop using generalizations and stereotypes about women then stop thinking in the conventional way when in reality women can be more than just the weaker sex and many times they are the more "evil" of the two.
Here's a thought for you BB. A child as young as 13 can be tried as an Adult for crimes such as murder but yet the age of consent for sexual activity is many years older. A child can be smart enough to have committed murder and yet not be smart enough to consent to have sex. Another thought is that had the male in this case been even 16 or 17 he could have still been charged with the same crime due to the age gap between him and her.
The laws are significantly biased against men and this is based on archaic beliefs that have not kept up with the modern age. Again what he did is wrong based on our current legal system but perhaps it is time to change the laws to some degree.
Posted by canvasback on Jul. 24 2010,9:21 pm
OEF...go find a plaster wall, bang your head against it several times....it is the same as debating anything with the queen bee without the typing!
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 25 2010,12:04 am
(canvasback @ Jul. 24 2010,9:21 pm)
QUOTE
OEF...go find a plaster wall, bang your head against it several times...it is the same as debating anything with the queen bee without the typing!
Unfortunately this is so true. Busybee is so thick-headed that no amount of reason, logic, or accountability will ever get through to her. In her eyes, men are the ultimate evil and need to pay for their penises. She let one abuse her for far too long that now all men must pay. I feel sorry for men in her world.
Posted by busybee on Jul. 25 2010,1:46 am
OEF_Soldier,Actually, I know of three men who told me they've been raped by women...I believe them.
I am not interested in getting into a debate about whether or not the female gender treats the male gender "worse" than the male gender treats the female gender. Just as I am not interested in joining in with another female to assert the male gender is treating the female gender "worse" than the female gender treats the male gender.
The fact is, there are some terrible females and some terrible males who live amongst us and this doesn't make one gender worse than the other.
QUOTE
The laws are significantly biased against men and this is based on archaic beliefs that have not kept up with the modern age.
These particular laws aren't written specifically to be biased against men, unless that's how you want to interpret them to be.
QUOTE
Again what he did is wrong based on our current legal system but perhaps it is time to change the laws to some degree.
Yes it is wrong...yet at the same time you are stating that it's really only wrong because of evil/vengeful females. I don't dispute those types of females exist. Maybe you have first hand experiences of being victimized by one or more, but it still does not make the female gender worse than the male gender.
You and a few others are choosing to use this particular case as an "example" of what "could be" wrong or can happen "sometimes" against an adult male if a 13 year old female child "pursues" him for sex.
Can you negate the fact that in this case, as the news article reports, the adult male believed the teenage girl's lie that she was 15 and then only 14 and he also admitted to being guilty of having intercourse with her anyway?
It's possible that he KNOWINGLY broke the law and he could have made a different choice...right?
What I found most interesting about this case is the adult male was charged with one count of 4th degree crim sex with a child under the age of 13 and 5 counts of 3rd degree crim sex with a child age 13-15 years old.
That essentially means one of two things. There was MORE than ONE child he had intercourse with or the female child he had intercourse with was 12 the first time they had intercourse and the next day when they had intercourse 5 times, is the day she turned 13 years old.
Is it really necessary to assert there needs to be a change in the law making it ok for 5th and 6th grade females to have intercourse with adult males?
Posted by busybee on Jul. 25 2010,3:37 am
Canvas & White Pride,Ahhh...yes...the PERSONAL ATTACKS on my character when I am NOT DISPUTING nor have I EVER DISPUTED that some women treat men bad isn't THICK HEADED on either of YOUR PARTS???
I have NOT ONCE stated I hate men. As a matter of fact I have stated that I know more good men than not so good.
Sure, I don't have any trouble speaking out about my children and I being abused by ONE man. Yes, I agree some women do choose to hate all men after being abused by one man (children or not). I choose NOT to be that type of woman.
I'm not pretending to KNOW either of YOU, how you think, feel, live and influence others in your life OUTSIDE of this discussion forum because of the opinions and what you choose to write here...including those you are claiming to have about me.
I challenge people on here...I always have and it doesn't matter the gender I believe a poster to be.
I do not and will not own, no matter anyone's accusations and assumptions, having a hidden agenda and belief against all men because I am not ashamed to state I have had first hand experience with one man's poor choices.
I am grateful that I have always been capable of respecting all men, including the one man who abused our children and I. Doesn't mean I trust that one man, yet I sure as hell am not ever going to grant him the power and control over what I believe about all men. It would be sad if I couldn't see or believe there's good in other men just because of one man's poor choices, lack of accountability and responsibility.
I don't expect either of you to believe me because I don't think you can risk believing that any woman who speaks about being abused by one man is capable of being anything except what you decide she is to ALL MEN.
What's crazy about this is...first it is asserted and accused that I brought up domestic abuse/violence and related it to myself too often on here and when I don't choose to bring it up at all, some posters follow me to threads and choose to bring up the domestic abuse/violence relating to me anyway.
I guess some people on here aren't ever happy, no matter what you do or don't do.
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 25 2010,10:44 am
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These particular laws aren't written specifically to be biased against men, unless that's how you want to interpret them to be.
The laws were written when it was believed that men were the perpetrators of the most serious of crimes.
QUOTE
Yes it is wrong...yet at the same time you are stating that it's really only wrong because of evil/vengeful females.
What I am saying BB is that the laws need to be adjusted according to the times. 100 years ago a 13 year old female having sex with ANY male would have been practically unheard of. That all began to change as the 20th century moved forward and it continues to change in the 21st century. Girls and guys are exploring their sexuality at a younger age than most parents care to admit. Even had this man been 16 years old at the time of the crime he could have still been charged with a crime based on the age difference.
16 tends to be the accepted age for consensual sex and yet a child can be charged with murder at a much younger age. You see no problem in this line of thinking BB? I do.
Posted by gijoeman on Jul. 25 2010,12:07 pm
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100 years ago a 13 year old female having sex with ANY male would have been practically unheard of.
Who are you and where were you not educated? Are you 13?
100 years ago many 13 year olds had kids you idiot! Were you educated in American history at all? Do you at least watch public television, because I know you don't read.
Posted by busybee on Jul. 25 2010,12:23 pm
Sorry OEF that I wrote your name instead of White Prides. I edited my post.
Yes, I agree with you that it's not right to generalize against the male gender on this issue and things are different today from the past.
I KNOW it happens where an adult male or male child's life is ripped apart by the law that makes it a crime for him to have sex with his girlfriend because she wasn't a month closer in age to him. It's not right, never has been and never will be.
This particular case does not prove that to be the issue though. I don't think it's wise to entertain changing a law encouraging 12 and 13 year old children to pursue sexual intercourse.
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 26 2010,1:00 pm
Oh calm down BB, not everyone has to like you.. I know a LOT of people don't like me based on my opinions!
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 26 2010,11:22 pm
(White Pride @ Jul. 26 2010,1:00 pm)
QUOTE
Oh calm down BB, not everyone has to like you.. I know a LOT of people don't like me based on my opinions!
It's not your opinions WP it's the fact that you only shower once a month.
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 27 2010,5:08 pm
(OEF_Soldier @ Jul. 26 2010,11:22 pm)
QUOTE
(White Pride @ Jul. 26 2010,1:00 pm)
QUOTE
Oh calm down BB, not everyone has to like you.. I know a LOT of people don't like me based on my opinions!
It's not your opinions WP it's the fact that you only shower once a month.
It's not THAT often Gezz... conserving water ya know
Posted by busybee on Jul. 30 2010,1:31 am
WP...QUOTE
Oh calm down BB, not everyone has to like you.. I know a LOT of people don't like me based on my opinions!
I NEVER stated everyone has to like me...including YOU.
I could CARE LESS what YOUR opinion of me is.
Posted by White Pride on Jul. 30 2010,2:44 am
(busybee @ Jul. 30 2010,1:31 am)
QUOTE
WP...
I NEVER stated everyone has to like me...including YOU.
I could CARE LESS what YOUR opinion of me is.
QUOTE
Oh calm down BB, not everyone has to like you.. I know a LOT of people don't like me based on my opinions!
I NEVER stated everyone has to like me...including YOU.
I could CARE LESS what YOUR opinion of me is.
well good then don't get so upset when I voice them!
Posted by busybee on Aug. 01 2010,10:46 am
Once again you are ASSUMING... QUOTE
well good then don't get so upset when I voice them!
As far as I am concerned, there is a difference between stating an opinion about a thread topic and a poster writing personal judgments with accusations about another poster's opinion on this forum because they don't like them and/or their opinion.
You can pass the buck all you want and believe you have the power to 'upset' another on this ADULT discussion forum, including me.
In a realistic "adult" world, NO ONE else is responsible for your ADULT thinking skills and what your choice is in response to another adult and/or me on this forum because you don't like them and/or their opinion.
I have an expectation of something BETTER of ALL ADULTS who post here, not just you.
If you want to make me out to be someone who you've decided and accuse of being the way I am so you can feel all warm and fuzzy about yourself ...go for it!
Posted by White Pride on Aug. 02 2010,1:03 pm
Maybe you should lower your expectations and join the rest of society?