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| Post Number: 1071
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january 
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Dec. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,7:45 pm |
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Busybee:
Agreed.
I find it so sad that a large group of people some very influential could have made a huge difference here.
And I am not just talking about passing the referendum to get money. I am talking about the message that you just spelled out.
The long term goal......to get Academic achievement back to where it once was at ALHS
11th grade students were......77%..........NOT Proficient in Math and..... 45%...... NOT proficient in Reading.
Anyone can understand that those statistics are horrible. Ignoring it or accepting it are akin to embracing it.
How can a large group of educated people say they want to keep the same quality of education that we currently have?
And on test after test year after year to be below State averages. Where is the pride in that? What happened to us as people?
For the administrator of a make-up MCA II test to care less if the students takes the thing or not, why should any kid give care if no one else cares.
I saw the names of the TEAM members in the paper. Most of the names I saw were highly educated talented people.
Where are they now?
LEARN brought out the problems with the academics and that had never been done before, not publicly and not to such a wide audience.
LEARN came out with some solutions but no one as yet has listened or shall I venture to say, cared.
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| Post Number: 1072
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| Post Number: 1073
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,9:17 pm |
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(busybee @ Nov. 09 2007,9:09 pm)
QUOTE QUOTE Yes Bianca.. that is all I got out of your post. I asked a simple question. You continue to divert from the question even in your last post.
I was asked to administer a test. I did not know any of the students I was giving the test to. They didn't know me. I had never seen most of them before. This was a make up test day so teachers needed to be in their rooms and they asked me to admin the test.
So... back to the question. If yo plan on responding to this, please pay attention to the question.
What could an individual who has little to no relationship with these 17 year old kids have done to get them to take a 4 hour test that has no bearing on their lives?
Notice, I am not talking about teachers. I am not talking about test results. I am not asking if the right thing to do is deny fuding that supports programs for kids. I am keeping it simple. What could that person have done to get these kids to take this test seriously? I know you've been directing this question towards Bianca and I think I could answer your question. I need a little bit more info, though. How many students? Describe the physical environment...typical classroom, the cafeteria, meeting room? What time was the test taken? Any breaks? Describe your typical attitude around high school students...positive & upbeat, monotone & even keeled, or reserved & serious.
The classroom had about 20 kids. The school day started at around 8:10 (sorry I don't know for sure. I think they changed it this school year), the test started about 8:30 so these kids had some time to prepare.
It was held in a (i think) social studies classroom with two windows.
I don't think there were any "scheduled" breaks,, but kids could take as long as they wanted so I would guess they could take a break as needed. Also, I know that they were allowed to stand and stretch for a minute every once in awhile.
Attitude... I don't know. It was a spring day (so not homecoming week). I would guess a pretty typical day.
BB, I really appreciate the civility here as I sense you are seriously trying to find a solution. Thank you.
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| Post Number: 1074
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,9:20 pm |
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(busybee @ Nov. 09 2007,2:43 am)
QUOTE QUOTE I choose to believe that the people from learn didn't just wake up one day and decide accountability was important. I believe that TL (and company) has wanted accountability for a long time. Good for them! I appreciate that more than you can possibly understand. But I also don't fault anyone who finds the efforts of LEARN to be disingenuous as these public efforts came at a time when taxes might be raised.People have said throughout this strand that this REF was coming. Dr. P said so last year. Where was the effort for accountability until just a month or so ago? My interpretation of your response is you value people who want accountability, except for LEARN as a "whole" group, because they did not ask for accountability until a month before the referendum vote. You see that as suspicious because you think it might have more to do with taxes than accountability in education. Hopefully I have that interpretation right. Anything you want to clarify before I respond? 
No that's about it. Only to add.. that people who are in the trenches everyday have more credibility for me.
I feel you setting me up for something 
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| Post Number: 1075
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 10 2007,12:49 am |
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QUOTE The classroom had about 20 kids. The school day started at around 8:10 (sorry I don't know for sure. I think they changed it this school year), the test started about 8:30 so these kids had some time to prepare.
It was held in a (i think) social studies classroom with two windows.
I don't think there were any "scheduled" breaks,, but kids could take as long as they wanted so I would guess they could take a break as needed. Also, I know that they were allowed to stand and stretch for a minute every once in awhile.
Attitude... I don't know. It was a spring day (so not homecoming week). I would guess a pretty typical day.
BB, I really appreciate the civility here as I sense you are seriously trying to find a solution. Thank you.
Could be the beginning test time had an affect on student performance.
Some may have been up late with an extra curricular activity, working, schoolwork or visiting via text messages late into the night.
Some may have skipped breakfast. We all know that affects performance.
There isn't anything that can be done by someone administering a test as far as students having a good nights rest.
Since the test was given first thing in the a.m. offering a glass of orange juice & a donut would be beneficial.
A typical classroom setting shouldn't have an impact either way.
Scheduled breaks and the freedom to stand and stretch occassionally would have been good.
A pretty typical day doesn't describe the typical attitude of the test administrator towards high school students.
It is my belief that if anything can be done before the test, during break times and after the test to have "improve the moment, moments" that would be a desirable approach. Humor works really well with high school students if you don't know each other.
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| Post Number: 1076
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 10 2007,7:01 am |
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QUOTE Stand44 · Posted on Nov. 09 2007,9:20 pm QUOTE Stand 44
I choose to believe that the people from learn didn't just wake up one day and decide accountability was important. I believe that TL (and company) has wanted accountability for a long time. Good for them! I appreciate that more than you can possibly understand. But I also don't fault anyone who finds the efforts of LEARN to be disingenuous as these public efforts came at a time when taxes might be raised.People have said throughout this strand that this REF was coming. Dr. P said so last year. Where was the effort for accountability until just a month or so ago? (busybee @ Nov. 09 2007,2:43 am) QUOTE My interpretation of your response is you value people who want accountability, except for LEARN as a "whole" group, because they did not ask for accountability until a month before the referendum vote. You see that as suspicious because you think it might have more to do with taxes than accountability in education.
Hopefully I have that interpretation right.
Anything you want to clarify before I respond? No that's about it. Only to add.. that people who are in the trenches everyday have more credibility for me. I feel you setting me up for something
No, I'm just trying to understand your position.
Can you explain why TEAM, a combined group of educators, parents & community members can be afforded credibility when looking ONLY look at their message, not the messengers and the time of the message?
Can you explain why LEARN, a combined group of educators, parents & community members can NOT be afforded credibility when looking ONLY at their message, instead of making it about knowing the messengers and putting relevance on a time factor?
What trenches are you talking about? Only teachers who are actively teaching? If so, what grades? What about parents? More parens are in the trenches everyday than you have seemed to want to acknowledge. It appears you would rather label most parents as lacking involvement.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think your opinion is biased because you want to concentrate on labeling, judging and making assumptions about "no, not yet" messengers, rather than taking a non-judgemental stance about the message.
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| Post Number: 1077
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hairhertz
Group: Members
Posts: 3489
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 10 2007,9:17 am |
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More money > more promises > more of the same performance
My post referendum prediction is that cosmetic adjustments will be made by #241, things will get back to business as usual until the next crisis arises. Then there will be another plea for more money to fix the problem. Etc., etc., etc. > 
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metis movement
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| Post Number: 1078
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This is my real name
Group: Members
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 10 2007,9:36 am |
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Wasn't there a Tribune article that actually said that they would cancel the referendum if the state funding was restored?
I remember reading something like that in the Sunday paper, when they reported on both sides of the issue.
If this happens, WE HAVE to hold them to it. Otherwise, when the referendum expires, they'll want us to fund "lost money" that isn't really lost.
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PEZ the only candy you eat after your favorite fictional character spits it out of their tracheotomy hole.
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| Post Number: 1079
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| Post Number: 1080
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 10 2007,10:51 am |
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(busybee @ Nov. 10 2007,12:49 am)
QUOTE QUOTE The classroom had about 20 kids. The school day started at around 8:10 (sorry I don't know for sure. I think they changed it this school year), the test started about 8:30 so these kids had some time to prepare.
It was held in a (i think) social studies classroom with two windows.
I don't think there were any "scheduled" breaks,, but kids could take as long as they wanted so I would guess they could take a break as needed. Also, I know that they were allowed to stand and stretch for a minute every once in awhile.
Attitude... I don't know. It was a spring day (so not homecoming week). I would guess a pretty typical day.
BB, I really appreciate the civility here as I sense you are seriously trying to find a solution. Thank you. Could be the beginning test time had an affect on student performance. Some may have been up late with an extra curricular activity, working, schoolwork or visiting via text messages late into the night. Some may have skipped breakfast. We all know that affects performance. There isn't anything that can be done by someone administering a test as far as students having a good nights rest. Since the test was given first thing in the a.m. offering a glass of orange juice & a donut would be beneficial. A typical classroom setting shouldn't have an impact either way. Scheduled breaks and the freedom to stand and stretch occassionally would have been good. A pretty typical day doesn't describe the typical attitude of the test administrator towards high school students. It is my belief that if anything can be done before the test, during break times and after the test to have "improve the moment, moments" that would be a desirable approach. Humor works really well with high school students if you don't know each other.
I agree with all of what yo have said. I think (not sure), that a few years ago the school received some type of small grant or something to provide a breakfast on the morning of the test and bottled water to every student taking the test. The problem here is that this sort of thing takes planning and is probably not available on make-up day.
As far as the break goes, I remember taking the ACT oh so many years ago. Breaks were an important part of that for me. The kids that walked out however, didn't stay long enough to get to a break point.
I guess I am curious to see if kids are still walking out when the test they are taking counts towards graduation.
I still don't believe that 77% of Albert Lea's Jrs. do not possess the skills to pass that test. I believe 77% didn't perform well enough to pass the test, but I don't think it is because they [/I]couldn't[I] pass the test.
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