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| Post Number: 1051
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Stand44 
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 07 2007,10:33 pm |
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(busybee @ Nov. 07 2007,5:57 am)
QUOTE QUOTE Where was Big Brother during 11 of the last 12 months. Oh yeah ... out there ensuring accountability for our school system right? What gives you the right to assert a concept that others haven't cared enough about accountability because you believe you hold the sole definition of what people who want accountability should have been doing for the past year? The fact is...this referendum should create a thought provoking process and expression from people. One should expect to hear more ideas and opinions than usual when it comes to accountability in our public school system, not only financially, but academically as well. Passing judgement on others for not expressing themselves EXACTLY the way you think they should have during a specified time frame of the past, or for lack of an involvement level that you EXPECT everyone should have by your definition, is not a valid reason for you to discredit these expressions. You are not the judge and jury on what qualifies others to express themselves on issues involving education. There are many parents, grandparents, family, business owners and community members that do not "qualify" by your definition, but that hardly equates to them having to give up their rights to express their concerns, ideas and opinions, yesterday, today or tomorrow.
Grow UP BB! You and I disagree! That's great! I appreciate other points of view! I f I find things to be hypocritical I say so. If you find them hypocritical, I expect you to say so.
I have found the idea that we should have voted NO and then spend the next year fixing the problem and holding great debate hypocritical as this did not happen in the 11 months since last years failed REF. Why would I think it would happen now. Only in the last month has anyone, with any amount of force, publicly asked for accountability.
I choose to believe that the people from learn didn't just wake up one day and decide accountability was important. I believe that TL (and company) has wanted accountability for a long time. Good for them! I appreciate that more than you can possibly understand. But I also don't fault anyone who finds the efforts of LEARN to be disingenuous as these public efforts came at a time when taxes might be raised. People have said throughout this strand that this REF was coming. Dr. P said so last year. Where was the effort for accountability until just a month or so ago?
As for being the sole holder of a definition or whatever you were trying to say, I am not Daniel Webster. I have never claimed to be Daniel Webster., I hold to no definition as you speak.
Have a nice day! 
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| Post Number: 1052
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 07 2007,10:41 pm |
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(busybee @ Nov. 07 2007,8:04 am)
QUOTE I want my kids teacher to have a teaching license. You know. Maybe a k-6 license or a middle school license, or a 7-12 subject license. Even a k12 specialist license. I DO NOT WANT MY TEACHER TO HAVE A SUBSTITUTE PARENT LICENSE. THAT IS MY JOB! Educators have more than enough to deal with. Do we really want them to be acting as parents to our students too?[/quote]
Is it your assumption and interpretation that parents of students who don't make the grade only care about teachers having a babysitting/part-time parenting license?
Is it your assumption that anyone who would make such a positive statement about student abilities and having the right to be seen as deserving of support and opportunites by educators should be negated because of your negative opinion of parents?
Talk about passing the buck.
If YOU would stop blaming everyone else...students, parents, and anyone who attempts to challenge the public educational system as it is, you actually might be able to notice some very unique problems that exist in the educational system that do in FACT affect the achievement of students.
For example, I have made my point very clear on here that I believe it is essential to address the DROP in achievement levels from elementary to high school.
You can attempt to pass the "problem" of acheivement level decline at the high school level on everyone else and claim "helplessness" of educators to do anything different or better because of some over-glamorized failures of everyone but them.
It's always been this way. It was this way when I went to high school, as it was when I attended college and graduated over 15 years ago in the education field, as it was when I was teaching and today as I elect to focus on my children, rather than my career.
The FACT is, this shift in blame is created by the public educational systems philosophy of education. THEY ARE THE LEADERS...STUDENTS, PARENTS, EDUCATORS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE THE FOLLOWERS.
If there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY in the philosophy of education at the high school level, (or for any grade level achievement without an apparent student disability)if there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY at the district level, if there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY at the board level & curriculum board level, if there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY placed on anyone except parents and students, you can expect NO ACCOUNTABILITY from them either, thus, no improvement, no change, no focus...just the same old same old.
BB,
I don't even know where to begin, so I will just say this. I responded to another persons thought that I took as: schools may be failing because some kids don't have positive home lives to go to, and the school district needs to do more. That may or may not have been the intended message, but that is how I read it. therefore my point is (and was) I DO NOT EXPECT, NOR WANT TEACHERS TO PARENT ANY CHILD BU THEIR OWN!
If you were an educator I am guessing you taught Art. You have a great ability to get CREATIVE with my thoughts.
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| Post Number: 1053
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 07 2007,10:45 pm |
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(Santorini @ Nov. 07 2007,1:35 pm)
QUOTE
(Stand44 @ Nov. 07 2007,1:04 am)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Nov. 06 2007,10:51 pm)
QUOTE Don't ever underestimate a child and his/her abilities, for given the chance they will never cease to amaze you. Plus, you're going on the assumption that all these kids have a home to go to. I want my kids teacher to have a teaching license. You know. Maybe a k-6 license or a middle school license, or a 7-12 subject license. Even a k12 specialist license. I DO NOT WANT MY TEACHER TO HAVE A SUBSTITUTE PARENT LICENSE. THAT IS MY JOB! Educators have more than enough to deal with. Do we really want them to be acting as parents to our students too? Just curious,...then why can your child be given birth control without your knowledge at school? Isn't that the parent's job to parent, as you say, and the school's to teach academics?
I don't want my child being given any drugs at school without my consent. That is a parents job. Why would you think i was in favor of such a thing?
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| Post Number: 1054
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 07 2007,10:51 pm |
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(january @ Nov. 07 2007,6:06 pm)
QUOTE The referendum has passed.
The real work for the Admin/School Board begins now.
There are now people that understand standarized testing, ACT scores, Adequate Yearly Progress, Minnesota Comprehensive Assessment II and No Child Left Behind, that a few short weeks ago did not know anything like this existed.
There are people that now know to go to the Minnesota Dept of Education web site as an information center to garner objective data.
I along with countless others will be watching closely test scores, comparisons, etc. especially how this District compares to State averages.
I hope that lessons learned during this pre-referendum debate has enlightened us all to the needs of the kids.
I hope I will never again hear an administrator of the make-up MCA II tests telling the taxpayers that students are merely putting their name down and turning in a blank test and he can't blame them for it.
Take your responsibilities seriously. Be a good steward of this most valuable resource, our children.
Great post until the last two lines.
That person administers a test 1 time, to kids that are vaguely familiar at best and total strangers at worst. What would you have had the person in that role do to get kids to take a 4 hour test that affects them not at all? Seriously. What is the solution to this problem?
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| Post Number: 1055
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| Post Number: 1056
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Alfy Packer
Group: Members
Posts: 1197
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 08 2007,8:04 am |
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QUOTE schools may be failing because some kids don't have positive home lives to go to, and the school district needs to do more.
Get real, that wasn't what was stated or implied. I was asking how can anyone but a  think that test scores will improve, NCLB will work better when funding is reduced below current levels? How does larger class sizes, fewer class offerings, and shuttering school buildings create the improvement needed? Point blank, IT DOESN'T! All could do would be to accelerate the decline. As I saw it this referendum wasn't about doing more, it was about not doing less. When your car averages 20 miles to a gallon, it is foolish to expect it to make that 20 mile trip on less than a gallon of gas.
Then there is the hypocrisy of stating one's "NO No" vote was for the children also blew me away.
"Johnny, your school is having problems meeting AYP so I'm going to withhold funding of your education because I love you so much! Study hard now Johnny, Mommy loves you." 
The poor test results are a big problem the school district needs to address and improve upon. How ever I was saying that if a parent, grandparent or other interested person are truly interested in helping see that their children are not part of the problem, and aren't being left behind, there are things they can do to improve the odds of success. I guess I further stated that we have some parents in the district who have damaged their children, and the numbers of these children are affecting a number of the schools in our district by being a distraction to the basic mission of these schools.
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| Post Number: 1057
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| Post Number: 1058
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 08 2007,10:18 am |
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(Stand44 @ Nov. 07 2007,10:33 pm)
QUOTE
(busybee @ Nov. 07 2007,5:57 am)
QUOTE QUOTE Where was Big Brother during 11 of the last 12 months. Oh yeah ... out there ensuring accountability for our school system right? What gives you the right to assert a concept that others haven't cared enough about accountability because you believe you hold the sole definition of what people who want accountability should have been doing for the past year? The fact is...this referendum should create a thought provoking process and expression from people. One should expect to hear more ideas and opinions than usual when it comes to accountability in our public school system, not only financially, but academically as well. Passing judgement on others for not expressing themselves EXACTLY the way you think they should have during a specified time frame of the past, or for lack of an involvement level that you EXPECT everyone should have by your definition, is not a valid reason for you to discredit these expressions. You are not the judge and jury on what qualifies others to express themselves on issues involving education. There are many parents, grandparents, family, business owners and community members that do not "qualify" by your definition, but that hardly equates to them having to give up their rights to express their concerns, ideas and opinions, yesterday, today or tomorrow. Grow UP BB! You and I disagree! That's great! I appreciate other points of view! I f I find things to be hypocritical I say so. If you find them hypocritical, I expect you to say so. I have found the idea that we should have voted NO and then spend the next year fixing the problem and holding great debate hypocritical as this did not happen in the 11 months since last years failed REF. Why would I think it would happen now. Only in the last month has anyone, with any amount of force, publicly asked for accountability. I choose to believe that the people from learn didn't just wake up one day and decide accountability was important. I believe that TL (and company) has wanted accountability for a long time. Good for them! I appreciate that more than you can possibly understand. But I also don't fault anyone who finds the efforts of LEARN to be disingenuous as these public efforts came at a time when taxes might be raised. People have said throughout this strand that this REF was coming. Dr. P said so last year. Where was the effort for accountability until just a month or so ago? As for being the sole holder of a definition or whatever you were trying to say, I am not Daniel Webster. I have never claimed to be Daniel Webster., I hold to no definition as you speak. Have a nice day!
Stand 44,
The BIG BROTHER I was originally referring to is not the local group that was opposed to the passage of the referendum at this time for very obvious reasons...like failing to meet AYP!!! AND is the district truely doing everything they can for ALL kids like EMBRACING diversity rather than using it as an excuse.
The BIG BROTHER I was referring to is the State and Federal Government currently enforcing NCLB and keeping a running total of these FAILURES which none of you can dispute.
--------------
"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 1059
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january
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Dec. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 08 2007,5:50 pm |
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Stand 44 and Alfy Packard
Leadership starts at the top.
Attitude starts at the top.
Academics HAS to be the priority.
Test scores have shown that District 241. Halvorson, Lakeview and ALHS all FAILED to make AYP.
ACT scores this year have shown that students scores were once again below State Averages.
ALHS students are below ACT State Composite Averages year after year after year. There are no sub-groups here to place the blame on.
We hear from the administrator of the make-up MCA II tests and Board member Sally Ehrhardt that the students themselves are to blame for failing to make AYP.
We hear from the administrator of the make-up MCA II tests that the kids just don't care and hand in a blank test and he/she can't blame them. What was that person supposed to do?
We hear the "facts" about how District 241/schools did not sorta, kinda really fail to make AYP because the "all students" section was passed, so we sorta, kinda really think we did sorta, kinda really not that bad.
If that were the case then why is District 241, Halvorson, Lakeview and ALHS all listed as failing to make AYP on the State website? It is a definite, with NO sorta, kinda reallys???
Is it because No Child Left Behind mandates that if one sub-group fails the whole school fails?
I and others on this forum have been talking about the discrepancy in grades vs standarized tests, grade inflation issues, academics and education for years.
In fact, for me personally, I have been investigating this for about 10 years. After assessing all the information accorded us we did something personally and that was open enrolled our child to a smaller surrounding school.
There was a thread on here several months ago where Rep Dan and others had conversation on this very topic.
I was told that if I felt so strongly about it to do something about it. That I needed to take responsibility.
It always surprises then quiets those asking me when I tell them that my child went to a school 20 miles away...one way. We had to buy an extra car. Extra money for gas. Insurance. My child had to get up earlier than many of her classmates living closer. There was inclement weather to contend with. She was captain in 3 sports so there were many a trip to and from in one day.
We were serious about this commitment. Although it was not an easy road it was the right road.
Don't ever let anyone tell you that students in the little schools cannot get the college courses, very challenging curriculums and an all around excellent education just because of their size.
She had many college choices and options. She eventually chose to go where they offered the most academic scholarships. A very large university where she received almost fifty thousand dollars in academic scholarships not based on any financial need/aid but based strictly on academics.
The seriousness of an education was stressed in our home.
But some of her classmates did not have the same commitment from mom and/ or dad at home. Even so the school took great pride in raising the bar high for all its' students. They took their responsiblities seriously. From the superintendent to the principals to the teachers to the office staff to the custodial staff and all fols in between.
They also had a very strong and committed school board.
It has now been several years since she graduated and I will never forget the guidance counselor telling me that one of her fellow graduates, the class valadictorian had finally gotten straight A's there.
He could not remember the last time a student had gotten straight A's. He told me it had been at least 10 to 15 years ago.
So many of us have not only discussed, but investigated, sought out and dug for more and more information from objective souces.
My experiences have taken years and I did not wake up a month ago and decide that this was important and world needs to know.
I have visited the ALHS School Board, although agreed they have to become more transparent, I have written letters to the editors of both the AL Tribune and the Star Tribune as well as officials in the MN Dept of Education.
I will not be condescended to , shined on, spaced off, ridiculed, minimalized because I have something this old age has afforded me.
I don't give a tinkers damn what anyone thinks.
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| Post Number: 1060
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Stand44
Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 08 2007,8:12 pm |
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(bianca @ Nov. 08 2007,7:08 am)
QUOTE QUOTE That person administers a test 1 time, to kids that are vaguely familiar at best and total strangers at worst. What would you have had the person in that role do to get kids to take a 4 hour test that affects them not at all? Seriously. What is the solution to this problem? This right here is exactly where the problem lies. Education ALWAYS affects people and ALWAYS matters. IMO,This statement of yours is a "cop out" and I hope you are not educating my students in my family with this kind of "it doesn't matter anyway" mentality. If there is an obstacle in making a job better don't make someone else figure it out for you or give up on it, figure it out yourself. But the first thing that you have to realize that it is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A "WASTED FOUR HOURS" THAT "DOESN'T MATTER."  Did you ever stop to think that maybe the kids might get that impression from the educators and then really feel like it is a "waste of time" for them? Every test we take in life matters even if we don't like taking them sometimes.
So what your saying Bianca is ... and I want to get this right, so correct me if I am wrong... What you are say is that you don't have any ideas as to what that individual could have done to get a 17 year old student, who has the ability to think for him/herself, to take a 4 hour test seriously when the test has no bearing on his/her life?
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