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| Post Number: 111
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jimhanson 
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,2:34 pm |
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I would HOPE the DNR doesn't lay claim to "all public waters". Does that mean every pothole with a duck landing on it make it a Federal case? If so, that would make the DNR in the land of "10,000 lakes" the biggest bureaucracy in the State, and Federal control over every bit of water.
I don't think that is what the framers of the Constitution meant when they said the Federal government had the power to regulate Interstate Commerce--duck flyways!  But then, activist courts have used even more suspect "logic" in asserting Federal power!
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 112
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KODIAK
Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,6:02 pm |
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This is the funniest damn thing I have seen on this site yet. I have seen people protest and cry out over many subjects here, but it took the fish kill to get the juices flowing. Good!
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"Dyin ain't much of a living.....boy" Clint (Outlaw Josie Wales)
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| Post Number: 113
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2004,8:47 pm |
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So jimhanson, don't you realize that the DNR IS the biggest bureaucracy in the State?
They want control over everything wet, and have a lot of it already under their spell.
Years ago, they even tried to gain control of ALL of the drainage ditches in freeborn county, for example (public and private), but some engineers with common sense (they've passed on, darn it) were able to deter them.
The DNR can be a real MONSTER!
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 114
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,10:54 am |
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Montyman--you are so right. The DNR has less accountability than any State agency I can think of. I had a shrimp boat in Texas--and while I never personally had a run-in with the DNR, their powers were unlimited. Unlike the police, FBI, ATF, or any other agency, they could pull a vehicle over, make a "no-knock" raid, or enter your property on the mere SUSPICION that you had violated game laws.
The DNR has broad, autocratic power. In the case of AL Lake, the application originally was for FIVE aerators--denied, no reason given. The application was resubmitted for TWO--no response--sitting on a desk somewhere?
As far as technical expertise in fish and game management, does ANYBODY have any confidence that the DNR USUALLY does the right thing?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 115
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cwolff
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,11:14 am |
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| Quote | | Does anyone have an idea what the cost would be to replace the dam? Since the DNR conceders All Waters Public Waters are we not forced to work with the DNR in replacing the dam. Also since part of the lake is a game reserve and is a resting spot for migrating waterfowl does or doesn't the federal government have any say into what we do with the lake? Just a few questions I would like to hear answers for. |
Madmax, in 1987 at Heron Lake it cost around $380,000.00 to remodel/rebuild the state dam. The site has a 117 foot channel. We built a dam that does more damage then good.
As far as the management of the lake, lakes in Freeborn County such as Bear, Lower Twin, Geneva, and Upper Twin are designated as "Game Lakes," which requires the DNR to manage these lakes for their primary wildlife use and benefit, particularly for waterfowl and aquatic furbearers. Game lakes require management plans be drafted and approved, and almost always require that periodical drawdowns of lake levels be performed to restore vegetative habitat, usally performed at a minimum of once every 5-10 years. This can only be done with dams that can open and allow water levels to drop to more natural levels to provide for sediment consolidation and exposure to drying conditions. This will allow for seed germination and plant growth which provides a natural filtration system that filters nutrients, sediments, and pollutants, and provides for very important wildlife and fish habitat.
Designate Albert Lea lake as a game lake, and then DNR will more than likely have to remodel/rebuild the dam if it is just currently a fixed crested structure. Is is a fixed crested structure?
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| Post Number: 116
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,12:40 pm |
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Discussion of the overpopulation of carp in Albert Lea Lake flowed into the city council meeting Monday as residents requested about $1,000 from the city budget.
The money is not for the barrier, but rather to pay for an airline ticket, transportation, food and lodging for a representative from Smith-Root, Inc., an outdoor equipment company, to examine the bodies of water for the possibility of a barrier, which could cost between $300,000 to $600,000, according to Shellrock River Watershed District representative Don Sorensen.
Albert Lea Tribune article
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Does anyone know why would we put in electric carp barriers that cost between $300K and $600K if there are still carp alive in Albert Lea lake ?
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 117
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,12:53 pm |
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cwulff | Quote | | Designate Albert Lea lake as a game lake, and then DNR will more than likely have to remodel/rebuild the dam if it is just currently a fixed crested structure. Is is a fixed crested structure? |
This is part of the problem. The pro-watershed people want to turn Albert Lea Lake into a pleasure/boating lake. One item in their watershed plan is to: "Emphasize that the reason for developing a watershed management plan is so the public can enjoy water oriented experiences and recreation." Cwulff, A.L.Lake is basically a lake quite similar to want I remember Heron Lake is, only larger. If the water level was lowered, it would became what it really should be, a shallow lake surrrounded by vegitation, bullrushes, and cattails. Also, putting in a lock and dam system like they want, as I see it, does not benefit "cleaning up the lake". I see it as strictly an economic development project promoted by the Chamber of Commerce. The main concern and benefit to a watershed district should be to promote and protect the natural environment and wildlife with water clarity and quality as it's major concern.
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 118
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cwolff
Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,1:16 pm |
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Maddog, I totally agree! At Heron Lake, the DNR maintains a higher static water level, and they call it managing the lake. The DNR says they need the dam to be able to manage for waterfowl and furbears, since Heron Lake is designated a game lake. The DNR says they need higher water levels and more water surface areas for the fall migration of waterfowl. I say they are full of BS. Historically, Heron Lake use to attract over 700,000 canvasback ducks during the fall migration, this without a dam and with lower water levels. The lake use to be abundant with vegetation. But the ducks do not bother to stop any more where there is no vegetative food or invertebrates. Heron Lake is full of silt and all of the ecosystems have been disrupted to the point where now-a-days we call higher static water levels with pea soup colored water and no vegetation - MANAGEMENT!
Today the water management people think that water quanity is more important than water quality. I favor water clarity over water depth any day! People need to understand that the quality of your surface water has a direct correlation with the quality of your ground water!
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| Post Number: 119
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danbelshan
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,2:23 pm |
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I found it quite interesting that the Shellrock River watershed board would ask the County Board to pay a salesman to come to town to show us what their product can do.
Is this the same watershed board that levied $250,000.00 for adm in 2004.($125,000.00 comes in to their coffers June 04 the other $125,000.00 in Nov 04 from property taxes in their Watershed)?
Is this the same watershed board that levied $60,000.00 (special startup levy)?
Is this the same watershed board that borrowed $45,000.00 of the $60,000.00 special startup levy from the county to get going?
Is this the same watershed board that borrowed $50,000.00 in Jan 2004 from the county for two years at 2.5% interest because they said they were short of funds?
Is this the same watershed board that now wants another $1,000.00 from the county for a "consultant" tell them to buy a product made by his company?
Does this mean the whole county will be asked to contribute to the cost ($300,000.00 to $600,000.00 )for improvements in their specific watershed district on a specific lake?
Fact: The other county watershed Turtle Creek is self supporting. Paying for improvements within its own watershed. Taking praise and heat when desisions are made.
Holding public hearings and following state statute in those improvement processes.
Turtle Creek Watershed doesn't come to Hollandale or Austin City Council or County Board begging for money and permission.
I must be mistaken. Surely the watershed board knows their authority and power to tax and spend.
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Go to danbelshan.com for my newsletters.
Go to Dan Belshan on facebook to get the latest.
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| Post Number: 120
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ICU812
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3244
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2004,2:33 pm |
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| Quote (Liberal @ Feb. 24 2004,12:40:pm) |
Does anyone know why would we put in electric carp barriers that cost between $300K and $600K if there are still carp alive in Albert Lea lake ? |
So the carp and watershed board will have as nice of a confinement system as the criminals and county have.
Doesnt make sense to me either. Only 1 way to get rid of all the carp out the lake at this point and that is to pull the plug and drain it.
Tax and spend, tax and spend, with no plan in site
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