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| Post Number: 21
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Gabby
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,10:27 am |
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For all you that haven't read todays fishwrap, here's Sturrock's final article. Nice job Tim. | Quote | Commissioner's walk-out sparks call to clarify closed session rules
By Tim Sturrock, Tribune staff writer
Commissioner Dan Belshan refused to sit in a closed human services meeting Tuesday, saying the meeting would violate the Minnesota open meeting law because it wasn't going to be tape recorded. But little did he know that after he left, the meeting was in fact taped.
"I'm not protesting, but I won't violate a Minnesota state statute," Belshan said, as he waited outside of the closed meeting after returning, unaware the meeting was not violating the law.
According to the Minnesota statute, although discussions about labor negotiations can be closed, they must be taped. The county is currently preparing to make a decision on negotiations with the union that represents more than 80 Department of Human Services employees.
Before the meeting began, Belshan was asked to turn off his tape recorder, he said. He insisted the meeting be recorded and then left the building for a few minutes. He said this is not the first time he's argued about open meeting law violations, citing a meeting three weeks ago, where the board eventually kept the door open to the meeting rather than tape record discussions.
After Belshan left, County Administrator Ron Gabrielsen called a lawyer to double check Belshan's assertion and the lawyer confirmed Belshan's comments, he said.
At that point a tape recorder was found and used. Gabrielsen admits to being mistaken initially, and said he is unfamiliar with some of the details of the law. Belshan himself could easily have suggested that they call a lawyer, Gabrielsen said.
Belshan returned to the building to wait outside of the meeting in case a vote was taken, without knowledge of the phone call. When the meeting opened and Belshan learned that the meeting had been taped, he asked why he was never called, or why his wife had never been called to contact him.
Gabrielsen said he didn't know Belshan's cell phone number, or his whereabouts. Commissioner Glen Mathiason reminded Belshan that they asked him to not leave.
After the meeting, Commissioner Dan Springborg accused Belshan of grandstanding.
"It's this constant grand-standing that causes problems for the county," Gabrielsen told reporters, describing Belshan as someone who wants to be a "Knight on a white horse."
Belshan criticized Gabrielsen for criticizing him, saying that Gabrielsen is embarrassed that he revealed Gabrielsen's mistake. He said the law is clear, and that Gabrielsen has read it. Belshan said he has listened to the tape of the meeting and is up to speed on the negotiations.
"I don't think I should be maligned when I was trying to do the right thing," he said of the incident. "I wasn't trying to needle anybody I just wanted to save the county from another lawsuit."
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Dan, it's all your fault. We could have had another lawsuit? 
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| Post Number: 22
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LisaMarie 
Group: Members
Posts: 367
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,10:48 am |
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Gabe is a freaking moron. "Gabrielsen admits to being mistaken initially, and said he is unfamiliar with some of the details of the law." That's not a "detail" of the law, it's THE frickin law! How the hell did he pass the bar exam, steal the answers beforehand?! Way to go Albert Lea, you've put yourselves in the hands of an IDIOT!
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Bush & Son - Sending America to war since 1990
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| Post Number: 23
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,11:18 am |
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Excellent article from Tim, it shows both sides of the story and doesn't take a stand either way. It's to bad Tim's leaving he's really turning out to be a good reporter. (I guess that's probably why he's leaving though.)
Belshan can't seem to win no matter what he does with Gabe and the other four commissioners. This whole thing was a non issue and those 5 simpletons turned into a big deal that gets reported on KAAL and in the Tribune.
Belshan showed them the law and told them they had to record the meeting or they would be violating the open meeting law and these jackasses (whose only goal seems to be to thwart everything Belshan tries to do) refuse to record it officially and forced Belshan to go to the extreme of having to walk out of the meeting to avoid breaking the law.
Then once he walked out they must have thought, "Dan seems pretty sure about this maybe we should ask an attorney". So those 5 mental giants called an outside attorney when they could have just called the county attorney or even walked across the freaking hallway and asked the city attorney if they have to record the meetings.
Then the best part is once they call an outside attorney and find out they were dead wrong they are able to track down a recorder within minutes and put a spin on the whole thing and accuse Belshan of grandstanding.
This whole thing would have been settled in minutes if the county attorney would have been there or if those 5 nuckle draggers would have just went and got a tape recorder.
This isn't the first closed meeting they've had either. The last meeting when Belshan told them they had to record it they argued with him and eventually one of them just walked over and opened the door and said there was no reason to have a closed meeting anyways. (Like the act of opening a door would constitute opening a closed meeting)
Theses guys are really hopelesss, their hatred for Belshan has clouded their judgement to the point where they've become a non functioning board and I doubt anyone would fault Belshan if he just threw in the towel and resigned.
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 24
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,11:31 am |
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The nice thing about the internet is that everything a public official says can be recalled. Gabe KNEW that closed meetings need to be recorded--they teach that in the "County Administrator 101" basic course. 
As evidenced by Maddogs post on another thread--Gabrielson posted the agenda with the relevant law himself!
| Quote | My question to RON is "You printed Minnesota Statute 13d.03 in the agenda today." What part of this don't you understand?
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13D.03 Closed meetings for labor negotiations strategy.
Subdivision 1. Procedure. (a) Section 13D.01,
subdivisions 1, 2, 4, 5, and section 13D.02 do not apply to a
meeting held pursuant to the procedure in this section.
(b) The governing body of a public employer may by a
majority vote in a public meeting decide to hold a closed
meeting to consider strategy for labor negotiations, including
negotiation strategies or developments or discussion and review
of labor negotiation proposals, conducted pursuant to sections
179A.01 to 179A.25.
© The time of commencement and place of the closed
meeting shall be announced at the public meeting.
(d) A written roll of members and all other persons present
at the closed meeting shall be made available to the public
after the closed meeting.
[b]Subd. 2. Meeting must be recorded. (a) The
proceedings of a closed meeting to discuss negotiation
strategies shall be tape-recorded at the expense of the
governing body.
(b) The recording shall be preserved for two years after
the contract is signed and shall be made available to the public
after all labor contracts are signed by the governing body for
the current budget period. |
What made you stop and think about it enough to call a lawyer for advise? Was it because Belshan walked out of the meeting if you didn't tape it? |
From the Trib.| Quote | | After Belshan left, County Administrator Ron Gabrielsen called a lawyer to double check Belshan's assertion and the lawyer confirmed Belshan's comments, he said. |
So Belshan was[b] RIGHT, and Gabrielson(and the rest of the Commissioners that follow him blindly) were WRONG. The whole thing could have been handled by a simple acknowledgement, and apology--but NOOO, Gabrielson tried to "weasel".
| Quote | | Gabrielsen admits to being mistaken initially, and said he is unfamiliar with some of the details of the law. |
How could he NOT know the law, when HE posted it? Why didn't he just apologize?
| Quote | | Gabrielsen said he didn't know Belshan's cell phone number |
But I bet he knows all of his buddies phone numbers. Instead of computers for squad cars, how about a Palm Pilot for Gabe?
| Quote | | "It's this constant grand-standing that causes problems for the county," Gabrielsen told reporters, describing Belshan as someone who wants to be a "Knight on a white horse." |
BLAME THE GUY THAT DID THE RIGHT THING?
Gabe didn't know the law? Why do we pay nearly $100,000 to someone who doesn't know this elemental fact? Why didn't he simply ask the COUNTY ATTORNEY if he had a question--this one is easy!
Any assertion that Gabe and the gang of 4 didn't know the law falls flat on its face--they have repeatedly been warned about violations of the open meeting law before by Belshan, by eyeonfreeborncounty.com, and even on the editorial page of the Tribune. Any reader of this Forum, or the Tribune Forum for the last year can verify this.
This incident has shown Gabrielson, and the Commissioners that didn't do the right thing even when confronted with the law, to be more than INEPT--they are secretive, grandstanding, LIARS!
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 25
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,11:38 am |
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---->Right on target. Exactly.
Can there really be any doubt who these four bastard commissioners really are?
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| Post Number: 26
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,12:01 pm |
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Jim, here's the article from when the Trib warns them, dated 3/13/03 | Quote | Editorial: More attention to meeting laws needed
By Tribune staff
The state's open meeting law is designed so citizens can keep close watch on what's happening in their government. Whenever members of an elected board or council gather and discuss public matters, the public should be notified of the meeting and a record should be kept to prove what transpired. And the public should have the full opportunity to observe their elected representatives in action.
That's why a couple of questionable incidents in the last few weeks are getting attention. Members of the Freeborn County board have been criticized for letting one member participate in a board meeting by telephone, and for meeting with the Lake Chapeau Habitat Committee to discuss the issues surrounding a dam that has caused controversy on the lake.
County Attorney Craig Nelson has consulted with the state and concluded that the county should reaffirm all the decisions made at the last board meeting, during which Commissioner Dave Mullenbach participated by telephone. While not an incredibly serious violation, the telephone participation may violate the letter of the law. People are supposed to be able to see their representatives participating.
The habitat committee meeting is another matter. Four commissioners - all except Dan Belshan - met with the committee. Each was invited individually, and there was probably not any deceitful intent by the commissioners. They responded to a request for their presence. But they should have realized that a quorum of commissioners meeting with a group to discuss public policy was at best a stretch of the law, and quite likely a violation.
The commissioners involved would be wise to take more care in the future to avoid the occurence or appearance of violations to the state's open meeting law. The regulations are the means by which government is held accountable, and they are crucial for an effective democracy.
Tribune editorials represent the opinion of the newspaper's management and editorial staff.
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In addition to this, in a statement from Jay T. Squires dated 5/31/03 in which Gabe spent $2,975.31 for advise, without the knowledge of the board, the first thing Gabe requested was | Quote | | Analyze request for opinion; review Albert Lea Tribune forum and Open Meeting Law |
His response dated June 16, 2003 was specific: There is no requirement that regular meetings of the Board be recorded. There are exceptions, such as closed meeting for labor negotiations. Required the County record and record must be kept. | Quote | He said this is not the first time he's argued about open meeting law violations, citing a meeting three weeks ago, where the board eventually kept the door open to the meeting rather than tape record discussions.
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At this meeting, after an argument insued, Ron went and got the statute, threw it on the table, and said "it's all in how you interpret it." What's to interptret, stuborn b**tard!
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 27
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Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,12:25 pm |
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Is it really a surprise to anyone that the lock step 4 and their little (in my opinion) weasel RG are trying to do everything in their power to discredit ANYONE that DARES to go against their grain? They used Rule 19 on Bok when he refused to bow to their demands, they (supposedly) had sheriff deputies follow the previous people (as well as their children) that attempted to sue them over what they did with the whole courthouse issue.
Nothing these rejects of politics do should even make our eyebrows raise anymore, but it seems just when I think that they have sunk to the lowest depths of under-handedness and deceit, they find a way to go even lower.
Perhaps the citizens of Freeborn County need a good old fashioned night of tar and feathering of certain individuals, screw waiting 285 more days to clean house, I say we start early.
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The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
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| Post Number: 28
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,12:35 pm |
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We can. [font=arial]Gabe's got to go...
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| Post Number: 29
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180
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,12:44 pm |
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Doesn't it make you wonder why Gabe and his merry band of four fight so hard not to be recorded? Why is it they want to hide like that?
Here's why. They know deep their hearts what they're doing is wrong and are smart enough to realize that what they say wouldn't stand the light of day if recorded for posterity and accuracy.
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| Post Number: 30
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 21 2004,1:37 pm |
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| Quote | In addition to this, in a statement from Jay T. Squires dated 5/31/03 in which Gabe spent $2,975.31 for advise, without the knowledge of the board, the first thing Gabe requested was | Quote | | Analyze request for opinion; review Albert Lea Tribune forum and Open Meeting Law |
His response dated June 16, 2003 was specific: There is no requirement that regular meetings of the Board be recorded. There are exceptions, such as closed meeting for labor negotiations. Required the County record and record must be kept. |
Good find, Maddog--as mentioned before, Gabe and the Gang of 4 have been warned before--and even PAID Mr. Squires for the warning!
It appears that either they "forgot" the warning they paid for, or they were openly contemptuous of the law.
If they "forgot" a lesson they paid for only a few months ago, THEY ARE TOO STUPID TO BE HANDLING THE BUSINESS OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT.
If they WILLFULLY DISREGARDED THE LAW, THEY SHOULD FORFEIT THE RIGHT TO "REPRESENT" THE COUNTY.
Which one IS IT? Do these guys take an oath of office, like most government employees? How about their promise to "preserve, protect, and defend" the law?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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