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| Post Number: 31
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,6:37 pm |
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The people demanded they're representives remove some of their freedom and money and make life harder for them so they could say they were doing their part in fighting terrorism.
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| Post Number: 32
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Mel
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,8:02 am |
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Striping away our civil liberties in the name of homeland security.
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| Post Number: 33
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Goodyear Pimp
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,9:04 am |
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| Quote | | Striping away our civil liberties in the name of homeland security. |
Any else here notice that while the media was so focused on the US capture of Saddam that congress passed more portions of the new "PATRIOT ACT 2"? I wonder why there was and still is no media coverage?
We were all scared when those planes swan-dived into the towers, OK? But what separates real Americans from the faux variety is that real Americans don't turn in their spines to the hatcheck lady in times of stress. People in this country today hear the word terrorist and immediately snap into action -- which means locking themselves in the bathroom, defecating on the Constitution and using the Bill of Rights to wipe their ass.
Yes, the administration is stripping away the civil liberties while everyone just lets it happen. I mean, nobody wants to look unpatriotic or like a terrorist by standing up for their rights.....
"... Proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie always contains a certain factor of credibility, since the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil, and that, therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds, they more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big.
Such a falsehood will never enter their heads, and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others; yes, even when enlightened on the subject, they will long doubt and waver and continue to accept at least one of these causes as true. Therefore, something of even the most insolent lie will always remain and stick -- a fact which all the great lie-virtuosi and lying-clubs in the world know only too well and also make the most treacherous use of. “-- Adolph Hitler "Mien Kampf"
Start arming yourselves now, because we are going to have to have another civil war to get our freedom back!
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| Post Number: 34
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jimhanson 
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,12:13 pm |
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Goodyear--I absolutely agree! Blame it on the Administration, Blame it on Congress, Blame it the innate nature of people to "do something" in response to a perceived threat--but the Patriot Act, TSA, "Homeland Security"--all are examples of a great Federal Power Grab--making us more insecure than ever.
I shouldn't limit criticism to the Federal level. State and local governments are also using the "terrorist" threat to enact stringent additional laws--restricting access, fingerprinting citizens, including new restrictions. In this small, midwest community, we are building a new Judicial Center because "there isn't enough security in the old courtrooms". Yup, you read about terrorists shoot-em-ups all the time--NOT! (Oddly enough, they built those same courtrooms right next to the street, where they can be hit with CAR BOMBS!) 
Government agencies are so paranoid that they feel the need for more firepower--full automatic weapons for the Sheriff's department, and sidearms for FAA written test inspectors, Peace Corps. officials, and Department of Education officials!
I believe, in my lifetime, there WILL be a Civil War or Armed Insurrection in the U.S.--this time, East & West. It will be minor skirmishes--not like the scale of the last Civil War. It will put the police and the military in compromising positions as to whether they will take action against the "rebels". It will probably occur between the Red States and Blue States--and will be fought over States Rights and Individual Rights. Most people in the Red states want no part of an increased government presence--they just want to be left alone.
Edited by jimhanson on Jan. 16 2004,12:17 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 35
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,5:53 pm |
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I heard the city cop in Fairmont got Federal Homeland Security money for video cameras to put up to watch for terrorists. Somethings wrong here, for sure.
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 36
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buzzup
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,5:59 pm |
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| Quote (jimhanson @ Jan. 16 2004,12:13:pm) | | I believe, in my lifetime, there WILL be a Civil War or Armed Insurrection in the U.S.--this time, East & West. It will be minor skirmishes--not like the scale of the last Civil War. It will put the police and the military in compromising positions as to whether they will take action against the "rebels". It will probably occur between the Red States and Blue States--and will be fought over States Rights and Individual Rights. Most people in the Red states want no part of an increased government presence--they just want to be left alone. |
Are you nuts?
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| Post Number: 37
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2004,6:08 pm |
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Maybe, but I heard he has an F-117 in storage at the AL airport just in case he needs it. But the question is, will he be RED or BLUE?
I thought the latest (1860's) Civil War was about STATES RIGHTS...
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 38
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2004,1:41 pm |
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No, just predicting more Ruby Ridges, Waco's, Oklahoma City's, etc. Not saying it's right, just that there will be more and more of them.
There is no question that the "great divide" has already happened--look at the disconnect between the red and blue states--urban vs. rural, East vs. West. Eighty-eight percent of the land mass is red, but the vote is split as evenly as possible.
There is no question that people on both sides have taken an "us vs. them" attitude--inclreasingly divided, increasingly strident. Political civility is at an all-time low. We have a number of people like Dennis Miller that will not run for office because it would mean moving into Washington, with all of its problems, and the immovable inertia of government resisting cuts--protecting its own "turf"--leaving only those who LIKE dealing with the government to run the country--"the inmates are running the asylum!"  I know I could never consider living on the East Coast again.
The "civil" war is already being waged on an economic front--States like South Dakota, for example, actively recruiting and attracting not only large New York firms like Citibank--but also advertising daily on KSTP radio 1500 in St. Paul for Minnesota industries to leave their high-tax state and move to South Dakota (and they are succeeding). North Carolina is the largest recipient of New York businesses. As more and more businesses move out of the major cities, the cities become more and more dependent on Federal programs --paid for by people in the "rest" of the country--increasingly polarizing the electorate.
The issue affects those in the regular military and the National Guard. After Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Oklahoma City, there was talk of, and limited use of, government troops or equipment to maintain order. There is a thin line between PROHIBITION of use of Federal troops to keep the peace, and LEGITIMATE USE of Federal troops to maintain order. National Guard Troops may be ordered by the Governor, or, in some cases (Civil Rights in Little Rock, for example) by the Federal Government to ensure Constitutional rights. With the new duties imposed on them by Homeland Security (guarding transportation facilities, etc.) Guardsmen I know say that they wouldn't have a problem shooting a terrorist, but if it came to a civil disturbance (Kent State, for example, or policing the Mexican border), they want no part of firing on civilians. They say they have talked about it formally at Guard meetings ("you must"), and informally after ("I'm not sure I would")--we won't know until the next "mobilization" of Guard troops.
Are we becoming more divided as a nation? YES. Are we becoming more uncivil? YES. Are States competing economically against each other? YES. Is this trend likely to continue? YES. Is the government making more use of Federal troops and equipment for "policing"? YES. Are those troops questioning whether they will take sides? YES. Will there likely be more Wacos, Ruby Ridges, Kent States, Little Rocks, Los Angeles riots, Watts, Detroit riots, etc.--ALL of which used Federal troops or agents?--YES. Actuarial tables say I should expect to live another 31 year--are these things likely to happen within that time frame? YES.
Civil War?--perhaps not--maybe we should call it UNCIVIL WAR.
Edited by jimhanson on Jan. 17 2004,3:46 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 39
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Montyman
Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: Dec. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2004,3:04 pm |
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That post kinda reminds me of the president's speech on the movie 'Independence Day'.
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Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| Post Number: 40
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 20 2004,10:59 pm |
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| Quote | | They that give up Essential Liberty for temporary Safety, deserve neither Libertly nor Safety-Benjamin Franklin |
By congress and Bush enacting the "Usurping the Rights of the American People Act, not only gives the gov't way too much power, but also gave the terrorists a huge victory over America.
This BS law does nothing to stem the tide of violence, it only punishes law abiding Americans, a person bent on death and destruction will find any means to do so.
I agree with Jims assesment of a civil war, but I would call it Revolution II, it is comming to a head, our forefathers fought the evil brits and threw off the chains of oppression. As now the people of the US are just plain tired of the BS.
Just like Jefferson said, "The tree of Liberty must be shed with with blood of tyrants and patriots from time to time"
As he knew that gov't tends to usurp more and more power from the people.
Wars end, Revolutions come back around for a second tour,
"Greed and corruption of the Federalist is in it's nature, it is the patriot that keeps it in check"-Patrick Henry
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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