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| Post Number: 21
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Botto 82 
Group: Members
Posts: 6293
Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: May 17 2013,6:19 am |
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It's interesting to note that the prosperity enjoyed in this country in the 50's and 60's really didn't start fading away until top tax rates were radically lowered. How did businesses ever survive the prosperous 50's and 60's?
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 22
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 17 2013,6:25 am |
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There also wasn't the amount of BS entitlement programs back then either botto.
Comparing yesteryear to now is a tab bit dishonest and misleading.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 23
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Botto 82
Group: Members
Posts: 6293
Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: May 17 2013,7:20 am |
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There were more people working back then, and tax rates were higher. There were less corporate loopholes, and higher tariffs on imported goods.
Once those things were abolished in favor of the failed notion of trickle-down economics, small wonder we have a target-rich environment for entitlement programs, which, by the way, are a mere fraction of our unnecessary military budget.
In short, there are myriad factors that led us to this juncture. To say that entitlements are the biggest problem in the mix is hardly accurate.
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 24
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 17 2013,8:26 am |
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You just said it, more people were working. Now we have a culture that seems to feel entitled to things instead of busting their humps to get.
You are right there are many other factors at play that got us here, but to lay blame on just the adjustment of taxes is a little disingenuous, I would lay the blame at the ever growing consumption by both state and federal govt.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 25
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Botto 82
Group: Members
Posts: 6293
Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: May 17 2013,5:51 pm |
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That's just it - Righties have gone on for years about how lower taxes are good for the whole economy, when in fact middle Americans have been sliding downhill, economically speaking, since Reagan. How is it that we were so prosperous during those high-tax years, and so the opposite since trickle-down became part of the economic lexicon?
It's bad enough for the economy that we hold the notion that continuous growth is sustainable, and that burgeoning mega-corporations find themselves wielding more political and economic power than whole state governments, but to further suggest that these guys weren't writing their own rules along the way is sheer folly.
I'm all for fair markets and a free economy, so long as there are publicly-sanctioned checks and balances along the way. For instance, I don't want USDA policy being decided by McDonalds. I wand USDA policy decided by an agency that is truly concerned with our collective well-being.
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 26
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: May 19 2013,8:59 am |
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(irisheyes @ Mar. 18 2013,12:14 pm)
QUOTE QUOTE Gov Dayton want to increase taxes on the top 2% (democrat, go figure) and increase the cigarette tax. Any smokers here??? Thanks for starting the thread, I kept meaning to start a topic about the budget proposal. I'm sure there's no lack of strong opinions on this. The price on a pack/carton sure makes me glad I quit. That being said, you'll notice republicans aren't happy about him wanting to dramatically lower sales taxes and property taxes, so their problem is really about one thing; the top 2%.Expatriate: QUOTE you got to pay your bills!
SB~Life is tough buttercup HA, S.B. shrugs off any empathy for regressive taxes like sales or property taxes skyrocketing for the middle class. He'd even suggest the person should just be homeless: after all, "they don't have a right to a home". Apparently the top 2% are the buttercups that life shouldn't be tough for.  QUOTE What's the total gov. Take on a pack of smokes now? If this goes through it's gotta be $5.50 plus?
Yep, truly a tax on the poor. I don't recall repubs complaining about Pawlenty's "health impact fees", and there's a direct correlation between republican LGA cuts and property taxes doubling over the past decade for many households. Reversing that trend makes the tax system more proportional. But don't tell that to the republican strategists, their focus is only on those making above $250k a year.Anyone who's been to or watched city council or county board meetings in greater Minnesota has seen the line of people at the podium about regressive taxes breaking their budget. I don't think the middle class in this state can handle much more of the republicans "no more taxes" rhetoric.
Leaders lead by persuasion..." they" sure persuaded you!!!
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 27
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grassman
Group: Members
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Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: May 19 2013,6:06 pm |
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If you do not see THIS as really happening, you either do not own property or are just plain ignorant. (  )
ignorant
Adjective
1. Having the lack of knowledge, or background/factual information of a particular thing in general. However, the effect in which this person will be proceeding with their "unproven knowledge" imbedded in their mind as if factual information, they, in turn, will plan on using it in the future to make false and incorrect statements based on what they didn't know about the particular thing, or may have heard as a majority of votes for.
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git er done!
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| Post Number: 28
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grassman
Group: Members
Posts: 3858
Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: May 21 2013,10:25 am |
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Do you suppose this could be part of the problem?
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
Apple executives are set to defend the company's tax practices and call for corporate tax reform on Capitol Hill Tuesday amid harsh criticism following a Senate investigation.
A report released Monday by Senators John McCain, R-Arizona, and Carl Levin, D-Michigan, charged that Apple "has used a complex web of offshore entities -- including three foreign subsidiaries the company claims are not tax resident in any nation -- to avoid paying billions of dollars in U.S. income taxes."
The report says Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) relies on a number of unusual accounting tactics along with a handful of subsidiaries in Ireland -- where it has negotiated a tax rate of less than 2% -- to reduce its tax bill. The U.S. corporate tax rate stands at 35%.
One Irish subsidiary -- Apple Operations International, or AOI -- has no employees or presence in Ireland, holding its board meetings and keeping its bank accounts in the U.S., the senators said. AOI reported $30 billion in income from 2009 to 2012, but its management structure allowed Apple to exploit a gap between U.S. and Irish law and avoid paying taxes in either country, the report claims.
Another Apple subsidiary in Ireland, Apple Sales International, booked $74 billion in revenue between 2009 and 2012 but paid taxes only on "a tiny fraction" of that sum, the report says, generating an effective 2011 tax rate of just five hundredths of one percent. The company also ducked taxes on $44 billion in income by transferring the rights to its intellectual property though cost-sharing agreements with its subsidiaries, the senators alleged.
The California-based company holds more than $102 billion offshore, allowing it to avoid the 35% tax it would pay upon returning the money to the U.S. The firm recently borrowed $17 billion to buy its own stock from shareholders rather than draw on its overseas cash, avoiding substantial U.S. taxes as a result. 
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git er done!
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| Post Number: 29
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: May 21 2013,2:16 pm |
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(grassman @ May 19 2013,6:06 pm)
QUOTE If you do not see THIS as really happening, you either do not own property or are just plain ignorant. ( ) ignorant Adjective 1. Having the lack of knowledge, or background/factual information of a particular thing in general. However, the effect in which this person will be proceeding with their "unproven knowledge" imbedded in their mind as if factual information, they, in turn, will plan on using it in the future to make false and incorrect statements based on what they didn't know about the particular thing, or may have heard as a majority of votes for.
Ooops! My comment was meant for a different thread!!! Got too excited and tied up with too many threads...sorry  BTW am property owner AND a smoker!! I've always felt these taxes only hurt the poor...people will always find a way to get their cigarettes... they'd buy cigs before milk for their kids, I've seen it...yet no matter what is taxed, clothes, cigs, food, services etc. by formula the lower income always get hurt the worst. What's the answer?? Show proof of income at purchase to decide which end of the scale your taxed? PS 2011 cigs in NY $14.50/pack (that's where I'll draw my line in the sand)!!!
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 30
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Common Citizen
Group: Members
Posts: 4818
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: May 21 2013,10:06 pm |
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(grassman @ May 21 2013,10:25 am)
QUOTE Do you suppose this could be part of the problem? NEW YORK (CNNMoney) Apple executives are set to defend the company's tax practices and call for corporate tax reform on Capitol Hill Tuesday amid harsh criticism following a Senate investigation. A report released Monday by Senators John McCain, R-Arizona, and Carl Levin, D-Michigan, charged that Apple "has used a complex web of offshore entities -- including three foreign subsidiaries the company claims are not tax resident in any nation -- to avoid paying billions of dollars in U.S. income taxes." The report says Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) relies on a number of unusual accounting tactics along with a handful of subsidiaries in Ireland -- where it has negotiated a tax rate of less than 2% -- to reduce its tax bill. The U.S. corporate tax rate stands at 35%. One Irish subsidiary -- Apple Operations International, or AOI -- has no employees or presence in Ireland, holding its board meetings and keeping its bank accounts in the U.S., the senators said. AOI reported $30 billion in income from 2009 to 2012, but its management structure allowed Apple to exploit a gap between U.S. and Irish law and avoid paying taxes in either country, the report claims. Another Apple subsidiary in Ireland, Apple Sales International, booked $74 billion in revenue between 2009 and 2012 but paid taxes only on "a tiny fraction" of that sum, the report says, generating an effective 2011 tax rate of just five hundredths of one percent. The company also ducked taxes on $44 billion in income by transferring the rights to its intellectual property though cost-sharing agreements with its subsidiaries, the senators alleged. The California-based company holds more than $102 billion offshore, allowing it to avoid the 35% tax it would pay upon returning the money to the U.S. The firm recently borrowed $17 billion to buy its own stock from shareholders rather than draw on its overseas cash, avoiding substantial U.S. taxes as a result.
G-man...do you not do everything within the law to lower your own tax rates or do you pay the full bill?
I don't care if you're an individual or corporation. You shouldn't be called onto the carpet for playing by the rules. All it is is political posturing...to get guys like you all up in a tizzy.
If the politicians were serious, they would pass laws preventing Google from doing what they did rather than go on TV and grandstand just make a good headline or sound bite.
...nuff said.
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