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| Post Number: 21
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Dustin Petersen 
Group: Members
Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 10 2003,2:49 pm |
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Liberal, I view financial aid as a reward, and I don't find it unreasonable for the state to pull that reward for criminal behavior. I realize that non-students were also involved, and I don't deny that they should be punished. However, I am not paying for them to go to school. They have no reward to take away.
Incidentally, I also believe that welfare and food stamp recipients should have their benefits reduced or pulled if they are convicted of a crime.
I just feel that if you are receiving assistance of any kind, you should show a little appreciation to the people who are funding it.
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| Post Number: 22
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Oct. 10 2003,3:52 pm |
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The people collecting it are the ones who fund it. 90% only use the safety net they paid into for under 3 years. Most states have 5 year lifetime totals. By removing benefits from parents who commit some crime you also hurt the children for whome most welfare is directed.
Again Dustin, showing your true colors. Your ustter contempt and jealousy for anybody you think is getting something for nothing that your not getting. I guess I feel for ya to a degree considering the pay you had to endure at the Tribune. 
But really, the safety net costs us next to nothing and most are within 3 paychecks of needing it themselves one day. We spend many thousands of times more for things like say the military. Why worry about a penny from you paycheck for a safety net...then give 15% of the gross to the military. It doesn't make any sense. It's penny wise, pound foolish.
Your position stems from jealousy and right wing religous beliefs more than anything else.
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| Post Number: 23
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Dustin Petersen
Group: Members
Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 10 2003,11:05 pm |
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Minnow, I am jealous of no one. I am not bothered by people who receive welfare benefits, or financial aid, provided that they truly need it and are not abusing the system. However, I will grant you that the children may be hurt by cutting benefits for the crimes of their parents. I had not considered that, and it was right of you to point that out.
And as far as my pay goes, I am not bothered in the least by people who make more money than I do. Money sure seems to be an issue with you though, and I find that just plain sad. With how often you remind us in the forum of how well off you are financially, I can't help but wonder just what it is that you are overcompensating for.
Lastly, though I admit that I am what you would call a born-again Christian, I fail to see how that is reflected in my post, or at least how it is different from any other person with politically conservative (or at least non-liberal) views. Where do you see the connection?
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| Post Number: 24
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 11 2003,12:19 am |
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IMHO-
I think the lil rat bastards that did the damage should be shackled, tarred and feathered, caned, then sent off to a Marine boot camp, preferable the island, as it gets real cold at night. That outta straighten out their asses, what ever happened to the option of either jail or basic? I know it did alot of good to some troubled youths.
Also Minnow, you chastise Dustin for his belief in cutting all bennies to people who commit a crime, well I agree with Dustin. You point out that (the ol liberal whine) "the children will be hurt", what you also miss wouldn't the children be hurt, anyways if their parents were thrown in jail for commiting crimes, so how would taking their taxpayer funded money and aid, hurt them anymore? As I have learned there is more than just two sides to any given issue.
Sorry to be harsh, but there has to be consequences to any action that is taken by an Individual, even if it hurts those around them, guess they should have thought it through before acting on it eh?
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 25
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shaker
Group: Members
Posts: 435
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 11 2003,12:36 am |
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I can agree with liberal some what, takeing away the benifits of some of the punks involved in the criminal riot a Mankato would be more harsh on them than some others that may have been involved that didn't attend school there. I guess that is the way it is. If you have something to lose then you had better be thinking about it and PROTECT it. Some people posting don't think that is all that big of a deal, well if someone burns my car or throws a brick a Me--I THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL. Being drunk don't cut it either, get hit in the head with a brick and you could end up dead, just don't make any difference if it came from a drunken college punk or somebody that is robbing you, your still history.
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| Post Number: 26
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Lil Pimp
Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 12 2003,1:36 am |
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minnow-
This was more than just a young adults party which was in full swing. The people involved brought their party outside into the street (Monks Ave-4 lane road servicing campus area) and proceeded to start destroying property. Granted it was probably less then 10% of the total participants which caused the problems but what should the police do? Let them raise hell as long as it is within the confines of an apartment complex? People who were just passing through Monks Ave. got bottles, stop signs & debris thrown at their vehicles before the police arrived.
I live 2 blocks off of Monks Avenue, I walked down there around 1:00AM after getting sick of seeing & hearing a police helicopter buzz my neighborhood. Yes, I said neighborhood, I am no longer at a student at MSU (class of '94), I live here now & own a home which is more then I can say for 99.9% of the 'rioters'. The police are not entirely innocent of adding fuel to the fire but they did their best. How can you expect them to be flawless, how many riots has Mankato (or Southern Minnesota) had before? I sincerely think they did their best.
Part of the problem is this area of campus is extremely densely populated, you have 5000+ people who live with in 3 square block area just off campus (MSU has little, if any, authority). Add with that, warm temps (let's party outside), LOTS of alcohol, more alcohol & alcohol & you are susceptible to problems. Throw in 100+ trouble makers & you have a recipe for disaster.
You are entitled to your opinion minnow. In fact, usually I agree with your posts but on this one you are overly simplifying the whole incident and I know this because I was a witness.
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| Post Number: 27
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 12 2003,11:28 am |
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How can it be fair to punish one person more than another based on financial need?
If two students are throwing rocks at the police and one is from a well off family and gets no financial aid and the other is from a middle class family that receives financial aid then shouldn't they both receive equal punishment when convicted?
Also if students riot then the problem should be handled by the local government and by the school and that's as far as the punishment needs to go. Because not only is it wrong to treat people differently based on their financial need but it's also wrong to give the federal government the power to punish people for violating state and local laws.
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 28
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Oct. 12 2003,5:31 pm |
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LOL.....exactly Liberal.
"You point out that (the ol liberal whine) "the children will be hurt", what you also miss wouldn't the children be hurt, anyways if their parents were thrown in jail for commiting crimes, so how would taking their taxpayer funded money and aid, hurt them anymore?"
------>Classic Albert Lea short bus logic! LOLOLOLOL  If you can't see the how dumb that statement is, I'm not going to waste my time explaining....LOL.
I swear...sometimes it's just so blatantly obvious how stupid Albert Leans are, its just sick.
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| Post Number: 29
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The Advocate
Unregistered
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Posted on: Oct. 12 2003,8:59 pm |
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The financial aid debate has to be kept out of the criminal conduct that some students and non-students participated in at Mankato State homecoming. First of all, there are students of every financial background. Some get financial aid and others do not. It is dependent upon the parents income level. If, for example the parents are making over $100.000. per year their child is entitled to no grants (free money) and qualify for only certain loans with the exception of the Direct Student Loans. These loans are very small. Hence, the student is paying either all of their own way (with exception of scholarships) or mom and dad are footing the bill. Poor students and/or single parents get the most money usually consisting of grants (free money) and qualify for every loan with no co-signers. Students who are dependent upon the financial aid will be affected to a much greater degree than students whose parents are footing the bill, and are not dependent upon the financial aid. This is financial discrimination. Very similarly, it would be inappropriate for the state to stop financial assistance (Welfare) for a mother or father on (Welfare) convicted of a crime. And leaping a step even further if Grandma or Grandpa were convicted of a crime would it be appropriate for them to not get Medicare coverage? 1 Adam 12 noted the statute in an earlier posting. That is what needs to be followed. If the Mankato State administration wants to expel those students, I guess that would be internal policy and their call but to mess with Federal monies may be a slippery slope they do not want to navigate.
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| Post Number: 30
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Lil Pimp
Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 12 2003,11:04 pm |
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Great post Liberal.
Liberal & minnow, I have to agree with you. The only reason MSU is looking at the financial aid angle is because it is one of the few recourses they believe are within their power. They can't do much else, this all happened off campus.
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