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| Post Number: 21
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hoosier 
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 16 2003,10:47 am |
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Jim, the only problem I had with your post was that you seemed to say that no one else here knew that something like this could happen except maybe you. I understand that we agree, it just sounded in your first post on the subject that anyone that was surprised by this was uninformed. I was just trying to point out that we all know, just as well as you do, that something like this could happen. At least on my part, I was upset that the government wont come out and admit what we all know, that our borders are a joke. Some people might not know this and feel safe because the government tells them they are. Sorry Jim, I am sure you dont mean anything by it, but I think a lot of your posts seem to insult other posters intelligence. Like I said, I am sure that is not your intent, I dont even know if others feel the same way, but to me, thats the way it comes across sometimes. Puts me on the defensive, sorry if I misunderstood.
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The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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| Post Number: 22
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 16 2003,1:40 pm |
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I went back to re-read the post--didn't see anything that indicated I'd found out anything new--didn't mean to convey that at all. This is a continuation of something we had on the old Trib. Forum--and I was trying to explain the disdain that most workers in the transportation industry have for the TSA and Homeland Security--pure "feel-good" eyewash--after spending Billions of dollars, we are not any safer.
It is an IMPOSSIBLE task to check every bit of cargo coming into the country, and to even TRY would paralyze the economy. Imagine the delay in imports, the elimination of overnight delivery. The 60,000 baggage screeners and security agents at airports would be a drop in the bucket--you'd have to have nearly a million people to screen ALL imports. ABC proved a point--it IS possible to bring contraband into the country (DUH!)--but it was a "staged" event. Do you suppose ABC would have aired the piece if they had been CAUGHT?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 23
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Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 16 2003,3:33 pm |
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I actually think they might have, or been required to by DoJ to 'prove' that measures taken have made a difference.
As for this "check everything that comes into the country" idea, where did that come from? I never said that is what we have to do, I have not seen (just looking through the post's now) anyone else say that is what we should do either.
Why can't we realistically try for some better measures than we have right now? Maybe jumble the money around some. I think most airports have enough security people with metal detectors, let's move onto the next hole that needs to be filled. We can't get them all, but how about trying to restrict some of the larger ones?
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The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
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| Post Number: 24
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 16 2003,4:14 pm |
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Ole- Too many holes, not enough resources. Airport screeners are a joke, if you want an explosive on the plane you could see that it make it to air cargo (unchecked) or checked baggage (ironic since it is mostly unchecked- except when the airport workers are looking for something to 'liberate' from your luggage). Besides, who is expected to pay for all these 'security improvements'? Certainly not the airlines, as they are once again looking for a bailout. Not the people who fly, because too much of an increase in fares will make people less likely to fly (already happening). That just leaves the taxpayers, and frankly I feel I have not gotten my moneys worth for what I have already paid!
The problem is that there are holes in security that have been and will continue to be exploited for decades. Illegal drugs have been getting into this country for years, even after the so-called war on drugs started. Illegal arms have continued to flow into the county, as well as illegal immigrants. Unless the borders are better protected and the shipping ports are better at screening, anything done is just for show.
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 25
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Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 16 2003,8:56 pm |
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That is exactly what I mean, airport screener's have not really helped the overall problem, so why not use those funds somewhere else where it may do more good.
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The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
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| Post Number: 26
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 28 2003,2:22 pm |
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After two years, the government has finally awakened to the fact that the CARGO compartments, not the passengers, are the most vulnerable part of air travel.
From Time magazine--| Quote | | "Security experts say getting cargo on planes without being inspected is far too easy. Critics have been asserting for two years that the government has focused on screening passengers and their belongings and not taken the potential threats to cargo seriously. Virtually none of the cargo carried on passenger planes is ever inspected, and dedicated cargo planes--the largest aircraft in the skies-- often fly with huge loads that have never been checked. Ashcroft's attention comes at a crucial time. On Oct. 1, an industry group will present its recommendations for improving cargo security to the Transportation Security Administration." |
Full article link--
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,490594,00.html
Pilots, airlines, and security experts have been telling the TSA ever since Sept. 11, but the TSA, and Homeland Security--are going full-throttle to meet the LAST threat. Billions of dollars spent, an entire industry decimated, hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, millions of people inconvenienced--on the wrong program! If the purpose was to decimate the economy, disrupt transportation, and make people fearful--the terrorists have won--KNOWING THEY CAN COUNT ON THE COOPERATION OF THE GOVERNMENT TO OVER-REACT.
As stated in the article, the government is finally holding hearings--two years late. Watch for government over-reaction on this as well--it may change business as we know it. IF the government comes down in favor of checking all packages--the 60,000 screeners for passengers (it was 30,000 when private companies did it) will not be enough. Next day air shipments may be a thing of the past. Costs will go up to cover.
I don't feel safer because of the efforts of the TSA and Homeland Security, despite the Billions of dollars spent----do you?
Edited by jimhanson on Sep. 28 2003,2:31 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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