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Madd Max 
Group: Members
Posts: 1345
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,12:43 pm |
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What are your feelings of President Bush’s Idea for space exploration? Should we spend 12 billion on space exploration or should we use that money to fix our health care system? Is it a good idea or is Bush becoming a big spender?
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Heck, if crazy were a pre-existing condition, the GOP wouldn't be able to get insurance. James Carville
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| Post Number: 2
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,1:25 pm |
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We need to expand our space program or become slaves of the Goa'uld 
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| Post Number: 3
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,2:15 pm |
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I think he is making the right moves on many fronts here.
NASA has a chart showing total NASA spending, how much is to be phased out, and how much additional this will cost. TOTAL NASA spending (assuming that NASA comes in at budget, and that Congress leaves them alone) doesn't go up much. He is doing the right thing by junking old technology to embrace new.
Phasing out the Shuttle is the right thing to do. The Shuttle is old technology. It was originally supposed to be a powered spaceplane, but when Congress cut funding, they went back to a glider configuration. When Congress cut funding again, NASA cut internal engines from the design in favor of the infamous "strap on" solid-fueled, non-throttleable rockets--directly responsible for the Challenger disaster. In response to environmental concerns, the insulation on the external fuel tank was changed--and it was this insulation that peeled off on several flights--including the one that doomed Columbia. The system of tens of thousands of ceramic "tiles" is outdated--metallurgy, and ablative coatings, make them passe. The Shuttle is only approved for low earth orbit.
Bush is also right to pull back from the international space station--the Shuttle fleet was designed to bring the pieces up to it--but after it is built, there is no need for the Shuttles. The Space Station itself is an example of Congressional meddling--it has been redesigned at least 3 times that I'm aware of--each time becoming both SMALLER and MORE EXPENSIVE as the years go by.
NASA has a lot of fat left in it--they have been "studying" aircraft braking systems for 40 years--so long that the Boeing 720 they are using is the only one left in the world--kind of like "studying" Stanley Steamer cars! 
It is sad, but Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, a Space Oddess[i]y, foretold the Shuttle, the Space Station, and Lunar Bases. The book and the movie were both produced in 1968--35 years ago. It has been 32 years since we last visited the moon, and will be 11-20 years more before we go back. It is sad to see the giant Saturn V rockets, left over from the cancelled lunar shots, sitting on the ground at NASA facilities. If you are under 40, you don't remember a time when man was on the moon. It is sad to reflect that, like an ageing athlete, WE ONCE WERE STRONG--we once were THERE, but are UNABLE TO REVISIT IT AGAIN. In addition to the technological spinoffs that inevitably come from NASA programs, it would be nice to REGAIN THE COHESIVENESS AS A NATION, and YES, EVEN TO REGAIN THE "SWAGGER" AND CONFIDENCE OF BEING ON TOP OF OUR GAME.
Edited by jimhanson on Jan. 15 2004,2:22 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,4:52 pm |
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| Quote (Madd Max @ Jan. 15 2004,12:43:pm) | | Should we spend 12 billion on space exploration or should we use that money to fix our health care system? |
How do you think 12 billion is gonna fix our healthcare system? I love hearing on the democrats ads now, "I'll repeal the Bush tax cut, and use the money for healthcare for every American". They say this in every election, never even try to do it, but the American people fall for it every time. It's like kids in a candy store.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 5
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,5:21 pm |
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$12 Billion is a drop in the bucket. Enough to fix healthcare? LOL 
1. Healthcare isn't broken
2. $12 billion is what goes to Isreal every year and we don't get any science value out of that.
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| Post Number: 6
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Madd Max
Group: Members
Posts: 1345
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,6:26 pm |
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We are spending 87 billion on the war and 12 to 30 billion in space. We are giving Tax cuts to the rich. So how are we going to pay for all this? Raise taxes on the Low and Middle classes?  One more question how large is the Federal deficit now?
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Heck, if crazy were a pre-existing condition, the GOP wouldn't be able to get insurance. James Carville
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| Post Number: 7
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,6:33 pm |
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I didn't see you complaining about the money when we were sending troops into Iraq.
We aren't going to pay for it dumb dumb, we're just going to pass it on....
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| Post Number: 8
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,6:43 pm |
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| Quote (Madd Max @ Jan. 15 2004,6:26:pm) | | We are giving Tax cuts to the rich. So how are we going to pay for all this? Raise taxes on the Low and Middle classes? |
So you think that the rich are the only ones that invest money in the stock market? Most people I know that are saving for retirement do it, its not like everyone's gonna depend on Social Security. Besides, the economy is not a zero sum game, when tax cuts spur economic growth, it creates more revenue than what was lost in the original cuts.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 9
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,7:05 pm |
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Geo- Ja'Fa Kree. heheehe good one, love that SG1..
| Quote | | Space the final frontier, these are the voyages of the Star Ship Enterprise, its continuing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life, and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before... |
I myself have mixed feelings about going back to the moon, on one front yeah its kinda spendy, and with money being spent on BS projects like Homeland Insecurity and the like, to the war, but on the other hand it will create jobs, as new tech is needed to accomplish these things. But I guess I am leaning toward the idea of a moon shot.
Minnow the 12 billion sent to Isreal is not entirely wasted, atleast we have a stabil ally in the middle east, and is very well armed as well as trained, all people there must serve in the military when they turn 18.
The tax issue-
Sigh i get so tired of hearing that the tax break went to the rich and not to middle class or the poor, well I can tell you I for one seen a much needed tax break, and so did my wife, so don't tell me it was for the rich. Second of all the poor that they say doesn't get the fair shake is the poverty ladden, the ones that don't even pay taxes to begin with, so why should they get money when they don't even pay in??
Did you also know that they consider anyone making over $40,000-$100,000 is what they are considering rich, not the filthy rich, as they are hammered with an abundance of other BS tax codes. (info from the Wall Street Journal)
Since when did it become a crime to be rich, and have things others do not, well sorry, but WHAAAAAAAAAA, get over it, get a better paying job and buy things then, and keep your hands off of my money.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 10
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 15 2004,7:08 pm |
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040114_space_initiative_bcol3p.standard.jpg
well, it didn't work, but if you want to see the chart, paste this into your browser
If I did this right, this should be a chart of NASA spending. As it shows, total spending doesn't go up that much, other NASA programs are ended to pay for the new program.
This is as it should be--some programs have outlived their usefulness, and should be replaced.
Edited by jimhanson on Jan. 15 2004,7:17 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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