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| Post Number: 31
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the breeze 
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Posted on: Oct. 02 2015,12:39 pm |
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Don't worry IE. Breeze taking a single verse from the bible is, in this case, taken a little out of context. I'm guessing you were brought up Catholic, and your catechism should have taught you this.
In the passage, Jesus is calling out some the priests and rabbis as hypocrites. They talked the good talk, but didn't live by their talk. They wanted respect for them, not necessarily for the Father. They wanted to be honored and seen as great men, forgetting that the glory goes to God.
Go ahead and call your pops, father and your priest. You do just have one heavenly Father, but calling the others father is a show of respect both as a sire to you or someone who may be a leader or teacher of good things. ///////according the that, we can just cross this verse out???
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 32
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MADDOG
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Posted on: Oct. 02 2015,12:48 pm |
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Nope, take the whole passage. Matt. 23:1-12
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 33
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| Post Number: 34
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the breeze
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Posted on: Oct. 02 2015,12:55 pm |
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Roman Catholics call their priests “father” and the pope is called “the holy father.” This is clearly unbiblical. The priest as “father” is problematic. Catholic priests are doing precisely what Matthew 23:9 condemns by allowing the term “father” in a spiritual sense be applied to them. In no sense is a priest or pastor a “spiritual father” to a Christian. Only God can cause a person to receive “spiritual birth”; therefore, only God is worthy of the title of “Father” in a spiritual sense.
http://www.gotquestions.org/father-Matthew-23-9.html
In the case of the “holy father,” there is no doubt this is unbiblical. No man can take on the title of “holy” anything, because only God is holy. This title gives the pope a status that is never intended for any man on earth. Even the apostle Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15) and cried out, “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” (Romans 7:14). Clearly, Paul made no claim to holiness. Although as Christians we have exchanged our sin for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), holiness will not be attained until we are in heaven and have left the last vestiges of our sin natures behind. Until then, the pope has no more holiness than the average Christian and is not entitled to be called “holy father.”
But there is no reason not to call our earthly parents “father” and “mother” because in doing so we are not giving them an elevated title or position that belongs to God. Our earthly parents are worthy of honor, not just on one special day of the year (Father’s Day, Mother’s Day), but we are to honor our parents daily in the spirit of Exodus 20:12, Matthew 15:4, and Ephesians 6:1-3.
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 35
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
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Posted on: Oct. 02 2015,4:08 pm |
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I suppose it depends on how you wish to interpret the passage from a non-Catholic perspective. (I'm not Catholic) This article by Tim Staples may shed some understanding for you. One paragraph that stood out in the whole article is: QUOTE The context of Matthew 23 emphasizes the sin of pride among the scribes and Pharisees. They loved to be called “teacher”, “father”, or “Rabbi," but their pride pointed men to themselves rather than to God the Father from whom they received true fatherhood and in whom their fatherhood subsisted. Outside of God the Father, there are no fathers at all in the true sense of the term. But in God, we have all sorts of true "fathers." full article
Sometimes understanding the text written is difficult for all of us.
QUOTE All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16,17
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 36
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the breeze
Group: Members
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Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2015,6:42 am |
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i know if there were six people left on earth and they had a n.a.s. Bible they could start and establish a New Testament Church of Christ using that Bible only and it would be Scriptural. could six people with the same Bible start and establish a roman catholic church and would it be Scriptural.??
i ask this because we are planting a Church of Christ in the Dominican republic using The New Testament and i was wondering how would someone start a roman catholic church.? what would they use.?
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 37
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the breeze
Group: Members
Posts: 1154
Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2015,6:49 am |
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Why does The Apostle's Creed Refer
to the Holy 'Catholic' Church?
-by Tony Warren
The question is often asked, why did the early Church fathers refer to the Church as Catholic. Particularly, the Apostle's Creed which is truly an ecumenical symbol of faith and is dated to about a century after the New Testament was completed. It is important to understand that the term 'Catholic Church' simply refers to the universal Church of believers. It is in no way referring to Roman Catholicism.
To fully understand this, we need to look at the original languages. For example the word Creed is from the Latin [credo] meaning I believe, thus the apostles creed was a statement of Christian beliefs. Some people have the mistaken idea that the word 'catholic' belongs to the Roman Church. But simply because Rome claims to be the catholic church, doesn't make it so. In truth the word catholic is simply a form of the Greek word [katholikos] which means, "of the whole." Taken from two root words [kata], meaning pertaining to, or about, and the word [holos], meaning the whole. i.e., the it means the whole or Universal Church.
Before those grounded in sound Biblical Theology broke away from the dominant Roman Church in protest (thus they were called, protestants) of that Churches slipping into idolatry and unscriptural practices, they were of the one whole (universal) Church. They still are. Rome can claim ownership of the word, but that is mere semantics. For they are not holy, nor catholic, nor in the real sense, the Church. In the false sense, they are a church, but they have long ago left being under authority of God.
The name catholic in our day has come to denote a denomination rather than it's true meaning. But in the early Church it was the title denoting it's universal nature, and had nothing to do with a denomination in Rome. Denominations are an invention of man. There is only the universal Church, not a Roman Church and a Protestant Church, but one holy universal Church.
In the big picture, this hasn't really changed today. The true Church of God is the Universal (catholic, in Greek) Church, no matter what label man puts upon it by denominational edict. There is one Holy Universal Church fulfilling it's commission to go to the ends of the earth with the gospel. And it exists all over the world and has gone by many denominational names. It has nothing to do with what is the Roman Catholic Church today.
the truth is, since we don't speak Greek, we could just as easily translate it:
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Universal Church,
The communion of saints..
Every educated scholar of course knows this. But because Reformed Churches are steeped in tradition, and have a high regard for their creeds (nothing inherently wrong with that) it is still rendered (usually) the Holy Catholic Church. And really, there is no good reason to change it. Why should we? No denomination can usurp a word as exclusively their own. Just so long as we all understand that the word simply means universal.
We should also be aware that it is not called "The Apostles' Creed," because it was written or authored by any of the Apostles, it is called this because it is actually an excellent brief synopsis of what they taught. Moreover, it sets forth the Christian gospel in a concise, though pertinent fashion, with proper reverential and liturgical high regard.
Peace,
Copyright 2000 Tony Warren
For other studies free for the Receiving, Visit our web Site
The Mountain Retreat! http://www.mountainretreatorg.net
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 38
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the breeze
Group: Members
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Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2015,12:05 pm |
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(Botto 82 @ Sep. 28 2015,3:26 pm)
QUOTE It's the Church of the Almighty God versus the Church of the Almighty Dollar, and the Teatards are in full damage control mode.
You can sway public opinion, but Doctrine still stands: Y'all ain't Heaven-bound.
I'm no Catholic, but the Pope's right. Get with God, or get with the other guys.
""im no Catholic, but the Pope's right "" ????
Pope Francis to America: not even a passing mention of our Savior Jesus Christ,
AuthorBy Judi McLeod -- Bio and Archives September 28, 2015
What was so conspicuously missing during the historic visit of Pope Francis to America: not even a passing mention of our Savior Jesus Christ, in his address to Congress and the General Assembly of the United Nations; any sign of the Savior’s revered Cross.
President Barack Obama was criticized for ordering all religious symbols covered up when he delivered remarks on the economy at Georgetown University in 2009. But his arrogant demands were at least kept front and center by some quarters of the mainstream media.
On this his last day on American soil, the Jesuit Pope has skirted criticism from all but the less trafficked blogs for a logo that comes straight from a sort of Charlie Brown celebrity cult; in which the Vatican has allowed Francis to become a caricature of himself.
http://canadafreepress.com/article/75599
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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Remember boys and girls,