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Lil Pimp 
Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 30 2003,8:53 pm |
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I know this has been touched on in numerous other threads so I thought I try & tie it into this one.
I remember when Mankato was pushing for the local sales tax about 10-11 years ago. There was much uproar about the tax as there has been uproar in this forum about the potential Albert Lea tax. If I recall, I believe the tax passed 55% to 45%, it was close.
Many people said 'if this passes I will shop elsewhere', this in turn caused other people to say 'we can't pass this, we will lose business'.
Now, 10 years later, the tax has not only paid for the civic center but also airport improvements and Mankato has certainly not lost any business. I think for Mankato it has been a very good thing. I also remember when a couple years ago, the cities of New Ulm & St. Cloud also enacted local sales taxes, again, apprehension by citizens when it was proposed.
If you look back and ask the citizens of cities which have the local sales tax, I think you will find much more then 50% that believe the sales tax was a good idea, even if they voted against it to begin with. Especially in cities where you attach a tangeable outcome of the tax (i.e. a civic center-New Ulm, Mankato, new parks-St. Cloud).
Will this work in Albert Lea? Are cleaning up lakes tangeable enough to satisify the voters? Hard to say, but to say you will shop elsewhere because of the tax just won't happen. If you are spending a $1000 on a new HDTV, does $5 really make a differance? It doesn't because I see them flying out the door at Best Buy in Mankato all the time. After a tax is inacted and a few months passes, no one even thinks about it anymore, life goes on. Is that good or bad? Probably depends on how you look at it but I have a hard time believing Albert Lea will lose business to other places because of it. Mankato has the tax, Rochester has the tax...you watch, if Albert Lea gets it, it probably won't be long before Austin and/or Owatonna tries for it as well! 
I am not some tax & spend liberal but I do think in Mankato's case, the tax provided more then was promised & has worked out well. Will this hold true for Albert Lea?
Place your vote, will this tax really benefit Albert Lea?
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guest
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,7:56 am |
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exactly Lil Pimp. You must be the only one on this forum that has a clue.
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kid dyn-o-mite
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,11:15 am |
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Wrong again guest. Mankato's exceptional growth rate was simple able to "handle" the tax . But, that DOESN'T mean increased taxes are good.
Increased taxes beyond mere necessities hurt society...you must be one recieving there income from taxes. I'm right aren't I?
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guest
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,11:26 am |
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kid-dim-wit, just think what this community could be with clean lakes. People would come here to use our lakes and spend money on our community. Maybe some big shot of a company will come here for vacation to use the lakes, fall in love with the area and open a branch of his company here and provide more jobs. If not for that possible scenario you should at least want the lakes cleaner for us to use and enjoy.
With the new retail facilities opening in town and with the possible new additions that are rumored we will be drawing in more people for shopping which will help raise this money.
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,11:57 am |
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| Quote | | the tax has not only paid for the civic center but also airport improvements |
Without commenting on the sales tax, the airport improvements were 90% paid by the Federal Aviation Trust Fund, funded by aircraft fuel taxes and and "Passenger Facility Charges" (read: taxes). The 10% local portion came from the Port Authority created during that time frame--created to force Blue Earth County and the city of North Mankato into picking up their fair share of the cost of the airport, instead of having the entire cost borne by the city--the City share was relatively low.
Port Authorities for airports are increasingly popular for this reason--in Wisconsin, airports do not receive State funds unless they ARE organized this way. Mason City recently went to a Port Authority for its airport, as well. An additional benefit of the Port Authority is that it has its own budget--it can plan projects and accrue money for for large projects over several years--unlike a City Council, which cannot obligate future councils.
I think Lil Pimp has touched on something, though. The most successful sales taxes have well-defined goals--"build a civic center" or "build the Metrodome" (or, our own "build the school" would be an example)--and a SUNSET--"when this project is paid for, the tax goes off". The sales tax proposed here needs better-defined goals. "Clean up the lakes" doesn't have a defined goal, OR a sunset. What IS our goal in "cleaning up the lakes"? Is it a water quality standard? (they're already safe for swimming and fishing). Is it water clarity? Is it COLOR of the water? How will we know when we've reached our goal?
Similarly, "revitalizing downtown" is a nebulous goal. It has been talked about for YEARS--studies have been done, consultants have been retained, schemes from pedestrian walkways to covering the streets to create a mall have been floated.
If we are to have a sales tax, let's have clearly defined goals and a sunset provision.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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minnow
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,11:58 am |
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Boy you're really lost aren't you? Lost in some fantasy CEO falling in love nuttiness...huh? LOL 
eutrophication, aging of a lake or slow-moving stream by biological enrichment of its water. In a young lake the water is cold and clear, supporting little life. With time, plant and animal life burgeon and organic remains begin to be deposited. As the lake grows shallower and warmer, marsh plants take root and begin to fill in the basin. Eventually the lake gives way to bog, finally becoming dry land. The natural aging of a lake may span thousands of years. However, wastes from human activities can accelerate the aging process, as with water pollution. The prime pollutants are nitrates and phosphates, which greatly stimulate the growth of algae, producing a pungent surface scum. Decomposition of dead algae reduces the water's dissolved oxygen content, adversely affecting fish and other aquatic life forms typical of a mature lake.
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,1:34 pm |
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Just because a person is against the 1/2% sales tax it doesn't mean that person is against cleaner lakes. I'd like to see the watershed cleaned up but I would like to see it come from property taxes.
Even if you think the 1/2% sales tax is a good idea you should at least be realistic about its chances in St. Paul. I'm sure the state lawmakers would rather not see Minnesota lose any sales tax revenue to Iowa and a local sales tax would make Albert Lea sales tax 2% higher than Iowa.
I have to agree with Jim when he said this tax needs clearly defined goals and a sunset provision.
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Every tax ought to be so contrived as both to take out and to keep out of the pockets of the people as little as possible over and above what it brings into the public treasury of the state.
Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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MADDOG
Group: Moderator
Posts: 7821
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,1:43 pm |
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Cwullf stated a while back that the first thing we need to do to get money for cleaning the lakes is to get them listed on Minnesota's Impaired Water List. Because of the federal Clean Water Act, this would trigger mandatory state funds.
But if there is a sales tax increase, Liberal and Jim are right. There needs to be a sunset clause on X number of years. Otherwise, where do we stop?
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Actually my wife is especially happy when my google check arrives each month. Thanks to douchbags like you, I get paid just for getting you worked up. -Liberal
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| Post Number: 9
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kid dyn-o-mite
Unregistered
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,1:54 pm |
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Why is it that the largest cheerleaders for bigger government work IN government? ...just a coincidence do u suppose?
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| Post Number: 10
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Lil Pimp
Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 31 2003,10:18 pm |
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Good points Jim, I appreciate the insight on the airport issue. I am sure you know the 'rest of the story' on the local airport funding from the sales tax but for those who do not I will enlighten...
Since it's inception, the local sales tax has by far exceeded revenue expectations. With this extra money, the city thought it would be nice to use some of this money for major airport improvements. They couldn't just shift this money over to this cause so there was a vote (if I recall the legislature had to approve this, again). Of course there was the usual sales pitch 'we need to improve the airport, either we use the extra local sales tax or we will have to raise your property taxes'. Well guess what, the voters voted to amend the tax. How couldn't they really? The money was already there & who wants their property taxes to go up any more then they already have?
Anyway, what I am getting at it is that Mankato adopted the tax to build a civic center; and surprise, they collected nearly twice as much money as planned, pretty nice problem to have. Now, 2 major issues are resolved with little expense to the property taxpayer. What would happen if Albert Lea would be lucky enough to be in this situation, you never know.
I also agree with the above posts, you have to have a goal, plan and sunset on the tax.
A local sales tax is not a cure-all-magic-money machine but I believe for tangible local projects, it does have merit. Ask anyone in Mankato about the civic center, it has helped promote local pride in the community, people feel good about it.
Will cleaning up the lakes in Albert Lea be tangible enough to work and make citizens feel good? I don't know, but I think if the city has the opportunity to try it, they have to take a risk and go for it.
Just my $.02
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