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Expatriate 
Group: Members
Posts: 16604
Joined: Oct. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,1:45 pm |
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Poll Question: Should President George Bush have the authority to authorize secret eavesdropping on American citizens?
He's President George Bush, not King George Bush, the founders wrote the Constitution with far sighted possibilities in mind, and we may now be at that juncture. The founders provided us with the ability to impeach any Government should it take away our liberties or any President, should he attempt to act like a King or an Emperor.
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History is no more than the lies agreed upon by the victors.
~NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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| Post Number: 2
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Spidey
Group: Members
Posts: 1775
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,2:07 pm |
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I don't think he should have that right at his own discretion. However ... Like anything else, if there is reason and all steps have been taken, then yes, I think he should be able to.
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,3:08 pm |
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How many civil liberties are you willing to give up in order to live in a free society?
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The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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| Post Number: 4
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Ned Kelly
Group: Members
Posts: 1073
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,5:28 pm |
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We are a democracy, not a dictatorship, yet............With Mr Bush as our president, we are losing our rights one by one........If the peons cant be controlled by fear take some of their rights away......  .........ned
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| Post Number: 5
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REPOMAN
Group: Members
Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,7:03 pm |
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| Quote (Ned Kelly @ Dec. 17 2005,5:28pm) | | We are a democracy, not a dictatorship, yet............With Mr Bush as our president, we are losing our rights one by one........If the peons cant be controlled by fear take some of their rights away...... .........ned |
do you really think that the Administration is looking to use this opportunity to listen in to conversations between nit wits at Eddies Bar and the Web Room... 
they are targeting terrorists and they are trying to get details of possible terrorist plots - as simple as that...
if you believe anything else then you probably believe in the boogey man, too... 
this thread is a typical example of why they say that one can achieve the results that they want in a poll - just based on the wording of the question in the poll...
for example if this poll were to be changed from: | Quote | | Should President George Bush have the authority to authorize secret eavesdropping on American citizens? |
to: | Quote | | Should President George Bush have the authority to authorize secret eavesdropping on suspected terrorists? |
I believe you would get different results... 
but that's just me... 
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| Post Number: 6
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,7:14 pm |
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No way! NSA isn't going to care if you're not paying for your cable, or if you just stole your neighbors shovel. They've got bigger fish to fry. Either way though, we have a right to privacy.
If people keep giving away their rights, in some attempt to keep America safe, what the hell are we protecting anyway! Politicians, police, and intelligence agencys will always make promises that they won't abuse the authority if we get scared into giving away our rights. We need more than just promises made at press conferences.
Abraham Lincoln-
| Quote | | America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
Osama Bin Laden-
| Quote | | And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act under the disguise of fighting terrorism. |
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 7
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TameThaTane
Group: Members
Posts: 6300
Joined: May 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2005,7:53 pm |
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Any right you give away to government can and will be abused.
This are the same folks who brought you the drug war run amok.
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My choice is what I choose to do,
And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you choose to be,
And if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.
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| Post Number: 8
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Wolfie
Group: Members
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 18 2005,2:40 am |
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Just playing devils advocate here, so put away the flame throwers. What if, and it might be a big if, the people that are on the list of names of people to be monitored arent US citizens. What if they are in the US on student visas, or work visas, and actually citizens of another country. If they do fall into that catagory, doesnt that eliminate them from the blanket of freedoms we as US citizens get to enjoy. Also the last time I read the Bill of Rights, the right to privacy was not on the list. Food for thought.
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Many good men have died to guarantee your freedoms, live your life like it was worth dying for.
I have the ability to make the 1200 meter shot, but some targets deserve the up close kill, where you can watch the life leave the eyes while the blood ebbs from the body.
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| Post Number: 9
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TameThaTane
Group: Members
Posts: 6300
Joined: May 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 18 2005,4:33 am |
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More like chit for a moron to eat. Right to privacy not on the list? Why, you are retarded ain't ya... 
right of privacy: an overview
Distinct from the right of publicity protected by state common or statutory law, a broader right of privacy has been inferred in the Constitution. Although not explicity stated in the text of the Constitution, in 1890 then to be Justice Louis Brandeis extolled 'a right to be left alone.' This right has developed into a liberty of personal autonomy protected by the 14th amendment. The 1st (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmenti), 4th (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv), and 5th (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentv) Amendments also provide some protection of privacy, although in all cases the right is narrowly defined. The Constitutional right of privacy has developed alongside a statutory right of privacy which limits access to personal information. The Federal Trade Commission overwhelmingly enforces this statutory right of privacy, and the rise of privacy policies and privacy statements are evidence of its work. In all of its forms, however, the right of privacy must be balanced against the state's compelling interests. Such compelling interests include the promotion of public morality, protection of the individual's psychological health, and improving the quality of life.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
"There is a sacred realm of privacy for every man and woman where he makes his choices and decisions-a realm of his own essential rights and liberties into which the law, generally speaking
"He who gives up liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor safety."
The honourable Ben Franklin
Edited by TameThaTane on Dec. 18 2005,4:40 am
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My choice is what I choose to do,
And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you choose to be,
And if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.
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| Post Number: 10
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Ned Kelly
Group: Members
Posts: 1073
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 18 2005,11:02 am |
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| Quote (REPOMAN @ Dec. 17 2005,7:03pm) | | if you believe anything else then you probably believe in the boogey man, too... |
I don't believe in the boogey man....but Bush's handlers scare the hell out of me........................  .........ned
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