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jimhanson 
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 19 2004,5:02 pm |
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Really not a government goof-up (but I'm sure there will be lots of examples!)  but it IS an example of '"Unintended Consequences"--every time government tries to pass a law to "make things better", they end up making things worse.
This nomination is from the Class II section (unclassified) of the TSA (Transportation Security Administration--otherwise known derisively in aviation circles as "Thousands Standing Around") and Homeland Security Briefing bulletin.| Quote |
Possible Protests at the PT Barnum and Bailey Circus
The Director of Security for the PT Barnum and Bailey Circus contacted the HSEM office today to notify us of possible protests at the Circus sites in Mankato and St. Paul. The Circus will be at the Midwest Wireless Civic Center on May 18 – 19 and at the Xcel Energy Center May 21 – 23. Past tours have brought out several animal rights groups. There is no specific information of a known threat at this time. All questions should be directed to Bob Osborne, Director of Security for PT Barnum and Bailey Circus (540-327-0847). |
THIS IS DANGEROUS! NOT THE ANIMAL PROTESTERS--THE FACT THAT OUR GOVERNMENT ANTI-TERRORISM AGENCIES ARE KEEPING TABS ON AMERICAN CITIZENS!
I don't think this is what Congress had in mind when they created Homeland Security and the TSA.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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Spidey
Group: Members
Posts: 1775
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 19 2004,5:08 pm |
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| Quote | THE FACT THAT OUR GOVERNMENT ANTI-TERRORISM AGENCIES ARE KEEPING TABS ON AMERICAN CITIZENS!
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I don't see that in what you posted. To me it looks as though it reads Security for PT Barnum and Bailey Circus and not government. Or is that what the Homeland Security is? Sorry, not up on this stuff ...
I learn so much around here!!!!!!! 
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 19 2004,5:10 pm |
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From the same bulletin:
| Quote | Cargo Pilots Get Certified to Carry Guns in Cockpit
May 5, 2004
ARTESIA, N.M. -- Commercial jet pilots aren’t the only ones getting certified to carry weapons in the cockpit. Now those who commandeer cargo planes are also training to defend themselves against inflight terrorist attacks.
Source: ]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119098,00.html |
Does this mean that the people that HIJACK planes are getting the training? No, Fox news got it right, it should have said "command" cargo planes. One for Leno's "Headlines" section.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 19 2004,5:24 pm |
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Barnum Security reported to "Homeland Security" that there may be a possible protest--even though "There is no specific information of a known threat at this time."
"Homeland Security" and the TRANSPORTATION Security Administration are government agencies created in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks to thwart terrorists. I don't think Congress intended to create two super-agencies (in addition to the FBI) to keep track of animal protesters at the Federal level.
Why do you suppose this is going out on the TRANSPORTATION net? It does a disservice to any organized protest group, to be labeled as a possible threat (even in the absence of a credible threat) by a Federal agency. This goes out to every airport, pipeline, train station, and law enforcement agency.
Don't "let the nose of the camel under the tent"--don't let the government start keeping tabs on us "for our own good". Remember the "enemies list" from the FBI files kept by the Nixon and the Clinton White Houses?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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Spidey
Group: Members
Posts: 1775
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 19 2004,5:59 pm |
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So now I wonder why our government would want to waste their time with protesters? Do they suspect something more? At a circus?
Thank you Jim for the crash course with a piece of our government ... I didn't relise they were created "because" of 9/11, or it's aftermath.
Is it just me ... or is everyone else feeling this un-easy feeling concerning our country, politics and people? More so then usual I mean.
Maybe because everyone I know is getting laid off of work, and the lines are a mile long at job service ... also this war has gone way off track and I kind of think there is so much more to the story then we are being told. Other things are going on too ... you've all noticed them, we are all talking about them ... very un-setteling.
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adamwpuyear
Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 20 2004,6:21 am |
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While I don't see the specific threat to us in Jim's posting, I am concerned about our gradual slide toward the world that George Orwell described in 1984. I also feel that the voice of the average American is going unheard or unnoticed. Most Americans are common sense individuals who want government to work efficiently FOR them to HELP solve problems. Instead the government has BECOME the problem. This is evidenced by this last "do nothing" Minnesota legislative session and in the book Death of Common Sense by Philip K. Howard.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksea....9&itm=1
Politicians spend too much time attacking each other rather than attacking the issues. It is maddening how when someone cannot defend their point of view, they go on the attack (thanks clovis). Just watch Hannity & Colmes one night. Sometimes they seem like kids in a sandbox!
Here are some ideas on changing politics. There should be a minimal pension and minimal salary (e.g., 50K) for most politicians. There should be no fundraisers in D.C. while congress is in session. Also, they should be required to spend no more than 60 to 90 days a year in D.C. This would force them to work more closely with the people in their district - you know, tthe people that elected them - and would help diffuse the special interest influence. The technology is available to make this possible.
Many of these ideas come from Democrat Zell Miller's book A National Party No More. An excellent book. As Governor he required his staff to read Death of Common Sense.
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Only through knowledge can one truly realize the extent of their own ignorance.
You can have it:
1. Right
2. Cheap
3. Fast
(pick two)
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adamwpuyear
Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 20 2004,6:23 am |
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I forgot to add, I believe that the lower salary for politicians would get more average Americans to run for office and get some of those "old money" leeches out of there.
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Only through knowledge can one truly realize the extent of their own ignorance.
You can have it:
1. Right
2. Cheap
3. Fast
(pick two)
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| Post Number: 8
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: May 21 2004,1:02 pm |
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Here's an example of "unintended consequences" of a "zero tolerance" law. The kid's facing expulsion for possessing an 8" bat from a trophy! | Quote | More of the immense idiocy that permeates our government schools. This one comes from Ft. Worth, Texas. We take you to the Diamond Hill - Jarvis High School. A student at Diamond Hill has been suspended for "transporting weapons to school in his vehicle." And just what was the weapon this student had in his car ... the weapon that was clearly visible through the windows of the car? Why, it was a baseball bat. It wasn't the kind of baseball bat you would take to the plate at some Little League baseball game. It wasn't the type of bat you would use, with great pleasure I would hope, to beat the ever-loving dog squeeze out of a burglar you find in your home in the middle of the night. No ... this "weapon" was a baseball bat that had broken off an award trophy. It was 8" long.
The student who brought this dangerous weapon to school has been suspended. School officials are now considering whether or not to expel him from the school permanently.
These are the very same government schools to which we are sending our children to learn critical thinking skills. Did I say "thinking?" Would any of you businessmen or women out there like to have in your employ someone so dense that they would consider an 8" baseball bat as a dangerous weapon worth of a student's suspension? These things are handed out at baseball stadiums as "bat night" prizes, and these idiots at Diamond Hill consider them to be weapons? Consider the parking lot monitor who spied this dangerous weapon through the window of the student's car. What kind of an incompetent void-surrounded-by-a sphincter-muscle must this person be? Here is someone who is truly unqualified to work for anyone other than government.
Be sure to send your congratulations to the wonderful administrators of the Ft. Worth Independent School District today. They need to know how much you appreciate the great job they're doing teaching our children how to cope and thrive in the real world.
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Perhaps this belongs in the "blame the inanimate object" school cell phone thread.
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 9
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Jun. 01 2004,3:51 pm |
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It's about time! After spending BILLIONS of dollars, and creating an unwieldy monster of an agency, the government is talking about privatizing the TSA. The TSA, generally derided as unworkable and ineffective by the transportation workers and passengers it was supposed to serve, would be privatized. At its peak, it had over 65,000 passenger screeners, since reduced by 1/3. It has caused many smaller airports to lose air service, as they were unable to provide the minimum 8 screeners ($42,000 per year each, plus benefits) and security director ($110,000 per year, plus benefits, office, car, staff). Cities like Bemidji, Brainerd, Hibbing, and International Falls would lose air service. Watching the Rochester traffic, there were often more TSA workers than passengers!
The TSA ("Thousands Standing Around") was created post 9/11 as a knee-jerk government reaction to "do something" in response to the aircraft hijackings. The government reacted with horror that someone could actually smuggle a weapon onto a plane. The number of screeners was doubled, new equipment installed, a security director for every airline airport was required, a training staff ($110,000 per trainer, plus expenses) was hired, sky marshals hired. The government complained "the privatized screeners sometimes didn't even have a high school education, and some aren't even American Citizens!--yet, these qualifications were quickly dropped when the government got into the business.
How fortunate that this was one of the first agencies to have a "sunset law"--requiring reauthorization. With any luck, it will fade to a vestige of its' former self. Link to article http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040531/D82TQD6O0.html
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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adamwpuyear
Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jun. 01 2004,4:09 pm |
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I live this every day that I fly and I can attest to the accuracy of the "thousands standing around" label. I routinely see four or more security people manning a single station in the middle of the night. For example, when I arrive in Minneapolis on my way home (typically at 1am) there are AT LEAST FOUR of these dolts standing around at ONE station. This does NOT count those that I cannot see.
The screening process is a joke. I know a pilot who had a knife planted in his wife's bag at the airport, which was "discovered" by the screener. This pilot is a highly respected man at Northwest, whose word I would NEVER doubt. He is of the highest integrity. Can you say "quota".
I know another pilot who had a fingernail clipper removed from his bag only to go to a sundry shop inside of security and purchase one exactly like it. Standardization? Nope.
I know several pilots who were paid $500 per DAY to train security personnel at airports. They said it was a joke, an example of throwing money at the problem until it goes away (there words, not mine).
Every airport seems to have their own idea of not only HOW to search and screen, but also WHAT is contraband. What a joke. I could go on and on. I can bypass security in Atlanta without any screening whatsoever because I attended a brief class, had a background searcn, paid the requisite fee, and was issued an ID. However, when I go to any other airport I get screened like everyone else. Keep in mind that EVERY airliner has a large crash axe in the cockpit. It weights about ten pounds, is about 18" long, and is VERY deadly, but we better watch out for those clippers! I can't even bring a small crescent wrench or socket set with me.
The inefficiency and stupidity is pervasive.
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Only through knowledge can one truly realize the extent of their own ignorance.
You can have it:
1. Right
2. Cheap
3. Fast
(pick two)
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