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| Post Number: 11
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Angel
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Posted on: Dec. 07 2003,10:07 pm |
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I agree with you nattiejean. The death penalty doesn't deter crime. But the punishment should fit the crime, regardless of cost.
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| Post Number: 12
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cpu_slave 
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,12:39 pm |
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| Quote | | Study after study has found that trying to get a death sentence costs up to ten times as much as trying to get life in prison. |
I hate to disagree. Looking at your statement, it might cost more to convict with a death sentence than to simply convict with life in prison, but the overall costs of housing a prisoner for life (50+ years in most cases) far outpaces the money spent getting the death penalty conviction. In just the area of simple economics, it is cheaper to put criminals to death than to house them for the remainder of their natural lives.
But on the other side of this coin, I have seen far too many innocent people in the prison systems for them to be close enough to the accuracy needed for the death penalty. For me, there needs to be 100% indisputable proof that someone is guilty before they are sentenced to death (and not just 12 bored people deciding it based on faith). However, years ago we did not have DNA which can absolutely distinguish if a person did not crime or not. I think if the law was written specifically enough it would work, but alas this is all just a knee-jerk response from our current governor, it will not happen anytime soon if at all.
Just remember folks, Charles Manson was originally sentenced to death for his crimes. After the moratorium on death sentences took effect in California, his sentence was commuted to life and now he is eligible for parole. Soon he could be out on the streets, and keeping his promise that if ever let out he would do it again. Anyone want to volunteer to live in Mr. Manson’s neighborhood?
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 13
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Tiger
Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,1:02 pm |
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No parole board in their right mind would ever grant parole to Charles Manson or anyone for that matter if they in fact have promised to re-offend.
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| Post Number: 14
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guest
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,1:09 pm |
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No parole board in their right mind would not have released Rodriguez. This is what happens when liberals get ahold of the corrections system. Sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated. For the sake of everyone's safety, they need to be removed from society, however it gets accomplished.
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| Post Number: 15
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Tiger
Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,1:43 pm |
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I agree the system has some holes. I don't agree with level 3 sex offenders ever being parolled. Do you think if Rodriguez said he would offend again he would have been let out?
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| Post Number: 16
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To A TEE
Unregistered
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,2:18 pm |
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I doubt that Charles Manson will ever get out. He has been up for parole 10 times and has been denied every time. He will again be up for parole very shortly and I do not believe that he will be paroled. There is such injustice with the criminal justice system and the more I study this area of law the more I realize that money is a key ingredient in the scenario. Even alledged racial persons are given preferrential treatment if they have money. But then again we live in a society based on a monetary cast system.
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| Post Number: 17
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 08 2003,3:09 pm |
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| Quote | | No parole board in their right mind would ever grant parole to Charles Manson or anyone for that matter if they in fact have promised to re-offend. |
Circumstances change situations. He could easily claim that he was lying and “feeling much better now”. There was a joke several years ago that when the Beatles White Album was released on CD, Manson stated that he did not hear the voices in the new format and that simply he perhaps just had a bad copy or was really a “victim” since he had listened to it on inferior media.
Seriously, there are people in prison who make Manson look like a priest and these people are the ones paroled to make room for the mandatory minimum drug offenders. Who would you rather have running the streets, a convicted marijuana user, level 3 sex offender, or multi-murderer? Sadly, it is the drug offenders who are kept while the rest are granted early release. I also say quit making prisons so luxurious (prisoners are treated better than most people, free meals, free cable TV, free health care, etc.) and make prison what it was suppose to be, punishment. Execute the ones not deemed fit to reenter society (the level 3 sex offenders, the serial killers, those who killed their children and blame a medical condition, those who kill their wives and unborn children and toss them in the ocean, etc.) as I am tired of my tax dollars going to keep these people alive, because what's the use?
| Quote | | There is such injustice with the criminal justice system and the more I study this area of law the more I realize that money is a key ingredient in the scenario. |
Exactly. If it was you or I instead of OJ being tried for his wife’s death, do you think we would be on the golf courses of the world looking for the “real killer”? Money buys justice, (in many cases injustice) and no one is equal under the law. All of you just remember the phrase “if you can not afford an attorney, one will be provided for you free of charge” because you can usually add the phrase “you get what you pay for” to make that a more realistic statement!
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 18
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D.O.C.
Unregistered
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Posted on: Dec. 09 2003,12:00 pm |
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| Quote (cpu_slave @ Dec. 08 2003,3:09:pm) | | Seriously, there are people in prison who make Manson look like a priest and these people are the ones paroled to make room for the mandatory minimum drug offenders. Who would you rather have running the streets, a convicted marijuana user, level 3 sex offender, or multi-murderer? Sadly, it is the drug offenders who are kept while the rest are granted early release. |
Oh, please. This is a tired, unproven arguement based on conjecture used by the pro-legalization crowd for years. Parole boards are under pressure to make room due to an increase in prison populations, but that increase is not caused solely by mandatory minimums. And they are not releasing the Mansons of the system to do so.
Be careful to blame mandatory minimum sentences, they are also in place for sex offenders, and those minimums have been raised in recent years.
Go back and read any story about Rodriguez. You will not find any that say he was paroled early to make room for a drug offender. He reached the end of his sentence and was released.
The only problem with mandatory minimums here is that they weren't long enough for this mutt to die in prison.
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| Post Number: 19
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Goodyear Pimp
Unregistered
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Posted on: Dec. 09 2003,1:06 pm |
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| Quote | | Oh, please. This is a tired, unproven arguement based on conjecture used by the pro-legalization crowd for years. |
Oh really, then why is it that many judges and politicians are also against mandatory minimum sentences then? It’s because a murder can be sentenced from 5-7 years while some drug offenders are getting 7-10 years.
| Quote | | Parole boards are under pressure to make room due to an increase in prison populations, but that increase is not caused solely by mandatory minimums. |
Again, you must be pulling this info out of your ass. Mandatory minimums have led to the increases in prison populations because by nature they remove judicial discretion. Look at the reform in Michigan, reforming the mandatory minimums to put back more judicial control is saving the state millions by not having to house non-violent drug offenders for such long periods of time.
| Quote | | And they are not releasing the Mansons of the system to do so. |
Bullsh!t, I personally know of a case where a man murdered his wife, was sentenced to 7 years, served 5, was paroled, only to kill again a short time after release. On the other side, I also know of an individual who was arrested on a drug possession charge and was sentenced to 10 years around the very same time. While the drug offender is still in prison serving their time, the murder was in, out, killed again and was recently sentenced to another 5 to 7 years. So tell me again “how they are not releasing the Mansons of the system to do so”. Again, total bullsh!t.
| Quote | | Be careful to blame mandatory minimum sentences, they are also in place for sex offenders, and those minimums have been raised in recent years. |
Funny how the sex offenders mandatory minimums pale in comparison to the drug offenders.
| Quote | | Go back and read any story about Rodriguez. You will not find any that say he was paroled early to make room for a drug offender. He reached the end of his sentence and was released. |
Yes, he served his term and was released, no argument here. It is just still amazingly sad that a drug offender sentenced the same day as Rodriguez is still behind bars!
| Quote | | The only problem with mandatory minimums here is that they weren't long enough for this mutt to die in prison. |
Again, he has been let out and has re-offended while the drug offender still sits behind bars. Look at the guidelines for yourself, murderers and sexual predators are still getting sentences shorter than most drug offenders.
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| Post Number: 20
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Guest
Unregistered
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2003,12:20 pm |
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I agree with Fresno, let the victims family's have a say... that way if they very definitely oppose the death penalty, they don't have two crosses to bear.
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