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| Post Number: 11
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the breeze 
Group: Members
Posts: 1154
Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 09 2015,1:28 pm |
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(stardust14 @ Dec. 09 2015,3:18 am)
QUOTE And then there's this:
"Jesus did the organizing for His church..." Wrong again.
Jesus was a Jew within Judiasm. His followers began organizing Christianity nearly a century later. There is not one single piece of hard evidence of anything Jesus did or said. Merely second hand recounting, some of which directly contradict the other. Your distrust of Christian direction is merited. Human manipulation of the Word began right from the start.
"Organization of the Church"
by Michael S. Cole, M.D.
Jesus said, "On this rock I will build My church, and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it." - Matthew 16:18
THE CHURCH
The church that Jesus built was HIS church. Jesus Christ is Himself its foundation (I Cor. 3:11). He is the Savior of the church (Eph. 5:23). It was purchased with His blood (Acts 20:28). He is the Head of the church (Col. 1:18). The church is the bride of Christ (II Cor. 11:2). The church is the body of Christ (Eph. 1:23). The Bible says there is only one church (or body) (Eph. 4:4).
Since the church belongs to Jesus Christ, the New Testament is our only reliable guide to the church's organization and the regulations for entering His church. No man-made churches are described or authorized in the Bible (Psm. 127:1).
The New Testament often refers to "the church" in a universal sense, encompassing the entire family of God throughout the world (Mark 16:15). Also, the scriptures frequently refer to "the church" in a local sense (I Cor. 1:2).
The Bible authorizes no organization for the universal church, except Jesus, who is the absolute ruler (Eph. 1:20-23) with absolute authority (Matt. 28:18). The New Testament does present Christ's plan for the organization of the local church.
The only way to construct the true, original organization that God approves of is to look into the scriptures. Let us examine the organization of the local congregation in the first century.
http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/topic6.htm
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 12
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stardust14
Group: Members
Posts: 337
Joined: Nov. 2014
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Posted on: Dec. 09 2015,11:14 pm |
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As I stated earlier--- to this date there is not one piece of script, not a single line of Aramaic or Hebrew text from the hands of Jesus. Strange in itself. Everything in the New Testament is interpretation by dozens of scribes in various Middle Eastern lands, influenced by local culture and politics, war and insurrections.
Your hopes of a "pure Word" is as of yet impossible. Human ambition, intellectualism, zealotry have tainted the Word from the beginning. Unfortunate to say the least. Believers must sift through the piles of interpretation and extract what they see fit. Your choice.
Your form of persuasion has not changed, using the interpretations found in online links to back your position, much the same way early/modern Christians base their beliefs. Also unfortunate. The convenience of putting trust in centuries dead scribes, attributing them with the best of intentions and knowledge, many of whom we know little or nothing.
Most of what was written of Jesus is not included in the New Testament, either omitted of later removed due to internal battles within the Church. Ex. Thomas Gospels, whose followers--gnostics--were labeled as heretics and slaughtered by the Church. The Church was "unhappy" about the direction the Gnostics were taking. Much like your unhappiness with the Church today, a scourge that haunts all Fundamentalists of all time. They are the only ones who are right. Based on what? Human interpretation. Opinion, with all its pitfalls and bias. Unfortunate.
PS My apologies to CounterfeittFake for hijacking this thread. My bad.
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| Post Number: 13
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the breeze
Group: Members
Posts: 1154
Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,7:14 am |
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(stardust14 @ Dec. 09 2015,11:14 pm)
QUOTE As I stated earlier--- to this date there is not one piece of script, not a single line of Aramaic or Hebrew text from the hands of Jesus. Strange in itself. Everything in the New Testament is interpretation by dozens of scribes in various Middle Eastern lands, influenced by local culture and politics, war and insurrections.
Your hopes of a "pure Word" is as of yet impossible. Human ambition, intellectualism, zealotry have tainted the Word from the beginning. Unfortunate to say the least. Believers must sift through the piles of interpretation and extract what they see fit. Your choice.
Your form of persuasion has not changed, using the interpretations found in online links to back your position, much the same way early/modern Christians base their beliefs. Also unfortunate. The convenience of putting trust in centuries dead scribes, attributing them with the best of intentions and knowledge, many of whom we know little or nothing.
Most of what was written of Jesus is not included in the New Testament, either omitted of later removed due to internal battles within the Church. Ex. Thomas Gospels, whose followers--gnostics--were labeled as heretics and slaughtered by the Church. The Church was "unhappy" about the direction the Gnostics were taking. Much like your unhappiness with the Church today, a scourge that haunts all Fundamentalists of all time. They are the only ones who are right. Based on what? Human interpretation. Opinion, with all its pitfalls and bias. Unfortunate.
PS My apologies to CounterfeittFake for hijacking this thread. My bad.
WOW!!!! you sure know a lot of words. ever hear of the Bible? First, the church was built and purchased by Christ (Matt. 16:18; Acts 20:28). No one has the right to start a church as a divinely approved institution (cf. 1 Cor. 1:10-13). Christ, the Son of God, is the only one qualified, and he has established his church (cf. Eph. 4:4; 1:22-23).
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 14
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stardust14
Group: Members
Posts: 337
Joined: Nov. 2014
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,12:31 pm |
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Sure, I've heard of the Bible. It's authors were described in my last post. It's pointless to debate religious semantics with Fundamentalists.
But one thing was accomplished. Your last post is possible proof you are a real person, not a forum bot as Expat suggested. Some actual words of your own, few they be. Expressing personal opinion can be cathartic if done properly, expelling some of the hate and distrust within. Try it more often.
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| Post Number: 15
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Expatriate
Group: Members
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Joined: Oct. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,12:56 pm |
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It's just more cut and paste, like I said the Bot is programmed, somebody coded this imbecile ...
https://www.christiancourier.com/article...-christ
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History is no more than the lies agreed upon by the victors.
~NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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| Post Number: 16
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the breeze
Group: Members
Posts: 1154
Joined: May 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,1:15 pm |
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The New Testament gives a clear picture of what the church was under the leadership of the Lord’s apostles. The church’s origin was divine; it continues to be subject to the authority of Christ. Should it not be the same today — simply, the church of Christ? https://www.christiancourier.com/article...-Christ AMEN
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JESUS DID THE ORGANIZING for His church and whenever men go beyond that pattern (found only in the New Testament of Jesus Christ) they do so at their own peril. One needs to only read the New Testament to see the problem that has been created over the last two centuries within the churches.
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| Post Number: 17
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| Post Number: 18
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Botto 82
Group: Members
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Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,2:04 pm |
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Christian kookery. Next thing you know Febreeze will be saying those Westboro Baptist kooks are doing God's work, too. 
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 19
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| Post Number: 20
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stardust14
Group: Members
Posts: 337
Joined: Nov. 2014
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2015,11:02 pm |
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I'm just saying people who claim to be strict followers of Biblical text(Fundamentalists) lay themselves bare for criticism, especially when they participate in today's political/capitalist climate. We see what happens to those at Westboro or in the ISIS caliphate. The human instinct for power soon overwhelms any spiritual leanings. The monks of the world follow a spiritual path, not blathering buffoons of the day.
When religious memes attached to profiles have stated falsehoods...that is fair game for debate.
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Remember boys and girls,
