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| Post Number: 31
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Rosalind_Swenson 
Group: Members
Posts: 963
Joined: May 2011
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Posted on: Apr. 04 2012,9:08 am |
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Thanks alot Al. That freaking song is going to be stuck in my head for days. 
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Government is too big and too important to be left to the politicians. Chester Bowles.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”
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| Post Number: 32
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 1767
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 04 2012,12:08 pm |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Mar. 30 2012,5:42 pm)
QUOTE QUOTE You most certainly are a terrorist sympathizer...you care more about rights of those who are willing to attack us on our own soil than the rights of others to be protected from those that, with full knowledge, rebuke the laws of treason. And this folks is one of the very reasons WE the American People have been placed under boot by UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws such as the UN-Patriot Act. At what point does safety become a hindrance, or cede to Enumerated Rights? Safety MUST NEVER be placed above Enumerated Rights. Regardless of the person, I do care about their Rights, if they have been found guilty and sentenced to prison, then their Rights are revoked. Everyone's Rights must be protected even if safety has to take a backseat. After all safety is an illusion. I do not see where Rosalind said she sympathized with terrorists, she and like the rest of us, question this EO and much of the questionable UNCONSTITUTIONAL provisions contained within. Painting everyone with such a broad stroke of a brush and labeling them as terrorist sympathizer because they do not embrace the BS coming from our federal govt all in the name of the war on terror, is quite troubling.
So, you and Ros are now Constitutional Scholars?!
Funny...the actual Constitutional Scholars and self-proclaimed Constitutional Scholar (obama) view the Patriot Act differently than you...
(do they know something you dont?!)
(quote) People dont have to be afraid of it...if that were the case it would be thanks to the misinformation spread by advocates and politicians not because of any real threat posed by the Patriot Act. (unquote)
It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. As for the patriot act as stated in the 5th ammendment...
except in cases arising in the land, or naval forces, or in the militia, when actual service, in time of war, or PUBLIC DANGER! Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights.
Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
It all comes down to interpretation doesnt it!
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 33
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| Post Number: 34
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 2601
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Apr. 04 2012,7:55 pm |
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(Santorini @ Apr. 04 2012,12:08 pm)
QUOTE So, you and Ros are now Constitutional Scholars?!
Funny...the actual Constitutional Scholars and self-proclaimed Constitutional Scholar (obama) view the Patriot Act differently than you...
(do they know something you dont?!)
(quote) People dont have to be afraid of it...if that were the case it would be thanks to the misinformation spread by advocates and politicians not because of any real threat posed by the Patriot Act. (unquote)
It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. As for the patriot act as stated in the 5th ammendment...
except in cases arising in the land, or naval forces, or in the militia, when actual service, in time of war, or PUBLIC DANGER! Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights.
Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
It all comes down to interpretation doesnt it!
Please, not every Constitutional scholar believes in the Constitutionality of the patriot act. The act should NEVER had been passed, and gives govt too much power and is questionable on the infringements of Due Process.
An act born out of hysteria, and the perfect storm for govt to curtail Enumerated Rights all in the name of safety. Sorry Ill take my Rights over safety anytime.
Yeaaaaa, Ill take fascist police state for $100 Alex.
QUOTE It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals.
Source?
QUOTE Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights
Doesn't work like that, try again.
Safety isn't a Right. Safety is an illusion and subjective.
QUOTE Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
Source?
Because the 9th Amendment says something entirely different.
Maybe it is time for you to do some light reading of the Federalist / Anti Federalist papers.
The Federal Govt only has 18 enumerated powers, defined by Article 1 Section 8.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS....Patton
*Ut subsequens vires of Iugum , exsisto optimus si obama intereo ex a pectus pectoris tentatio
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| Post Number: 35
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Rosalind_Swenson
Group: Members
Posts: 963
Joined: May 2011
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Posted on: Apr. 04 2012,10:32 pm |
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A recent hearing against the NDAA on behalf of detained journalists highlighted that neither side of the debate plans to budge an inch. We must urge our representatives that we will not tolerate heinous crimes against our people, and indefinite detention of absolutely anyone without due process is unarguably atrocious. We need to truly ponder Benjamin Franklin’s words that “those who would sacrifice essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
http://www.mndaily.com/nuevo/2012/04/05/ndaa-needs-definite-attention
You sound alot like Benjamin Franklin Grinning Dragon!
So, anyone who is concerned about the NDAA- Here is contact information:
http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/faq/faqtoc.aspx?id=47
http://www.state.mn.us/portal...rthStar
There are also a gazillion sites with petitions you can sign. Just google Petition to Stop NDAA.
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Government is too big and too important to be left to the politicians. Chester Bowles.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”
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| Post Number: 36
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 2601
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Apr. 04 2012,11:01 pm |
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Wait, I cannot believe I didn't catch this the first time.
QUOTE It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals.
QUOTE Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
Ok so which is it?
So the govt is the one with Enumerated Rights, only for the govt to infringe upon itself?
Since govt is NOT an individual, how can Rights apply? If there is NO govt, do those Rights still exist, since Enumeration is a recognized natural Right?
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS....Patton
*Ut subsequens vires of Iugum , exsisto optimus si obama intereo ex a pectus pectoris tentatio
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| Post Number: 37
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alcitizens
Albert Lea Citizens
Group: Members
Posts: 2218
Joined: Jul. 2009
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Posted on: Apr. 05 2012,7:25 am |
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THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES- Its Preamble
It is the people's constitution, the people's government; made for the people, and answerable to the people.
http://books.google.com/books?i...f=false
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| Post Number: 38
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 1767
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 05 2012,11:31 pm |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Apr. 04 2012,11:01 pm)
QUOTE Wait, I cannot believe I didn't catch this the first time. QUOTE It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. QUOTE Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual. Ok so which is it? So the govt is the one with Enumerated Rights, only for the govt to infringe upon itself? Since govt is NOT an individual, how can Rights apply? If there is NO govt, do those Rights still exist, since Enumeration is a recognized natural Right?
You are right...I phrased that wrong! Sometimes I get ahead of myself 
Its a list of rights that restrict government control and ratify the constitution.
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 39
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 1767
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 06 2012,12:02 am |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Apr. 04 2012,7:55 pm)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Apr. 04 2012,12:08 pm)
QUOTE So, you and Ros are now Constitutional Scholars?!
Funny...the actual Constitutional Scholars and self-proclaimed Constitutional Scholar (obama) view the Patriot Act differently than you...
(do they know something you dont?!)
(quote) People dont have to be afraid of it...if that were the case it would be thanks to the misinformation spread by advocates and politicians not because of any real threat posed by the Patriot Act. (unquote)
It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. As for the patriot act as stated in the 5th ammendment...
except in cases arising in the land, or naval forces, or in the militia, when actual service, in time of war, or PUBLIC DANGER! Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights.
Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
It all comes down to interpretation doesnt it! Please, not every Constitutional scholar believes in the Constitutionality of the patriot act. The act should NEVER had been passed, and gives govt too much power and is questionable on the infringements of Due Process. An act born out of hysteria, and the perfect storm for govt to curtail Enumerated Rights all in the name of safety. Sorry Ill take my Rights over safety anytime. Yeaaaaa, Ill take fascist police state for $100 Alex. QUOTE It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. Source? QUOTE Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights Doesn't work like that, try again. Safety isn't a Right. Safety is an illusion and subjective. QUOTE Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual. Source? Because the 9th Amendment says something entirely different. Maybe it is time for you to do some light reading of the Federalist / Anti Federalist papers. The Federal Govt only has 18 enumerated powers, defined by Article 1 Section 8.
There is a difference between due process and judicial process.
Judicial process are rules that determine the jurisdiction of individual courts over specifice areas of law. (unquote)
The ninth amendment is very ambiguous since it deals with unenumerated rights and has to clearly be left to interpretation.
Also, (quote)
The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution - but
it does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumerated powers in the Constitution.
Treason, aiding the enemy qualifies. Article III Section 3
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 40
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 1767
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 06 2012,12:03 am |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Apr. 04 2012,7:55 pm)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Apr. 04 2012,12:08 pm)
QUOTE So, you and Ros are now Constitutional Scholars?!
Funny...the actual Constitutional Scholars and self-proclaimed Constitutional Scholar (obama) view the Patriot Act differently than you...
(do they know something you dont?!)
(quote) People dont have to be afraid of it...if that were the case it would be thanks to the misinformation spread by advocates and politicians not because of any real threat posed by the Patriot Act. (unquote)
It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. As for the patriot act as stated in the 5th ammendment...
except in cases arising in the land, or naval forces, or in the militia, when actual service, in time of war, or PUBLIC DANGER! Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights.
Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual.
It all comes down to interpretation doesnt it! Please, not every Constitutional scholar believes in the Constitutionality of the patriot act. The act should NEVER had been passed, and gives govt too much power and is questionable on the infringements of Due Process. An act born out of hysteria, and the perfect storm for govt to curtail Enumerated Rights all in the name of safety. Sorry Ill take my Rights over safety anytime. Yeaaaaa, Ill take fascist police state for $100 Alex. QUOTE It has been defined that the Bill of Rights are expressed restrictions on govt powers rather than a grant of rights to the individuals. Source? QUOTE Individual rights come first unless and until they infringe on others individual rights...in that case public safety has to come before individual rights Doesn't work like that, try again. Safety isn't a Right. Safety is an illusion and subjective. QUOTE Enumerated rights are for the govt. not the individual. Source? Because the 9th Amendment says something entirely different. Maybe it is time for you to do some light reading of the Federalist / Anti Federalist papers. The Federal Govt only has 18 enumerated powers, defined by Article 1 Section 8.
There is a difference between due process and judicial process.
Judicial process are rules that determine the jurisdiction of individual courts over specifice areas of law. (unquote)
The ninth amendment is very ambiguous since it deals with unenumerated rights and has to clearly be left to interpretation.
Also, (quote)
The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution - but
it does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumerated powers in the Constitution.
Treason, aiding the enemy qualifies. Article III Section 3
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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