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| Post Number: 41
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Common Citizen 
Group: Members
Posts: 4291
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,8:39 am |
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Nice to know we have our very own resident Dr. Phil... 
Keep in mind that every kid has a different biological make up. Just look at our culture for instance. Some people view prison as a deterent to committing a crime and respond accordingly and yet there are others who could care less about that consequence. So, in my opinion, it is the same with kids. Some respond better by physical dicipline than from a verbal discussion. I know, because I also have kids, and each one of them are different and require different reprimands to get my point across as it pertains to breaking a rule and its consequence.
With that, everyone has their own opinion. But my opinion is that punching a 6 year old is inexcusable. I would have a hard time respecting a cop who is trying to enforce a law when his own backyard dirty. Because of the nature of his position in this community he should not be allowed to enforce the laws within this community. Cops are and should be held to a higher standard because they are in a position of authority and trust.
nuff said...
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It's not that I don't believe in helping the poor or less fortunate, where I disagree with you is how much we help before it becomes a permanent crutch in ones life.
It is not the fault of the person making $2,500,000 or $250,000 for the person making $25,000.
nuff said...
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| Post Number: 42
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ANTILIBERAL
Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: Aug. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,9:24 am |
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QUOTE Nice to know we have our very own resident Dr. Phil...
The man is a genius so I will take that as a compliment!
QUOTE But my opinion is that punching a 6 year old is inexcusable. I would have a hard time respecting a cop who is trying to enforce a law when his own backyard dirty. Because of the nature of his position in this community he should not be allowed to enforce the laws within this community. Cops are and should be held to a higher standard because they are in a position of authority and trust.
Amen! Could not agree more.
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| Post Number: 43
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fredbear
Group: Members
Posts: 705
Joined: May 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,9:42 am |
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Dr. Phil is a genius? That explains alot right there.
I'm more worried about your kids than Cantu's.
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| Post Number: 44
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,3:52 pm |
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QUOTE Keep in mind that every kid has a different biological make up. I agree...along with personality, emotional reactions, thinking process, cognitive abilities, etc... They are all different in how they respond to the world around them.
QUOTE Just look at our culture for instance. Some people view prison as a deterent to committing a crime and respond accordingly and yet there are others who could care less about that consequence.
Interesting fact...approximately 75% of the prison population has the mental disorder of an Anti-Social Behavioral Personality. The exact cause is unknown, however genetic factors and child abuse seem to be prevalent in most cases.
QUOTE So, in my opinion, it is the same with kids. Some respond better by physical dicipline than from a verbal discussion.
And...some don't respond to either.
QUOTE I would have a hard time respecting a cop who is trying to enforce a law when his own backyard dirty. Because of the nature of his position in this community he should not be allowed to enforce the laws within this community. Cops are and should be held to a higher standard because they are in a position of authority and trust.
I agree with what you are saying and I also believe the higher standard should go even beyond their own backyard to their family, friends, co-workers, opinions, biases, etc...
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| Post Number: 45
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Wareagle11B
Group: Members
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mar. 2004
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,3:57 pm |
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Dunno what happened but I'll try it again. LOL
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I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!
Teddy Roosevelt
www.warriorlegacyfoundation.org
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| Post Number: 46
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Wareagle11B
Group: Members
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mar. 2004
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,4:24 pm |
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(ANTILIBERAL @ Jan. 18 2008,12:54 am)
QUOTE What I said; "I used to spank my daughter, she is 13 now btw, and I still do if it is necessary."
To Wareeagle 11B, I am wondering what type of message you are sending your 13 year old daughter? Instead of reasoning with her, she gets wacked. So what you are saying is that hitting teaches respect. I believe that hitting teaches just the opposite. Lets say you died tomorrow in a freak accident. What will your daughter remember about you? Maybe something like, "dad was ok, but he used to hit me!" Next time your daughter lips off to you, sit her down. Talk to her. Tell her how she makes you feel when she does that. Maybe take her cell phone away or something of importance to show you mean business. Stick to it. Be consistant and follow through. I am by no means "super mom" but I am consistant and my children are very well behaved - and I did not have to beat them to make them act that way.
The keyword phrase in what I said Anti is IF NECESSARY. I do not routinely beat my daughter and as a matter of fact it is a rare occasion when it happens. It is sometimes necessary to spank her and I set a limit to the number of swats years ago. I have never gone over that limit and it is usually enough to make her know she misbehaved.
I respect your way of bringing up your children and I hope you can respect mine and those of us who choose to discipline our kids in a manner different than yours. Please do not allow a sense of what you may think is abuse to cloud the statements of others. As I said there is a fine line between abuse and discipline and I have never strayed over it and never will. BTW were I to die tomorrow I would hope she would say that I was a loving father and a Dad who cared enough to do what I did when I disciplined her.
I love my parents and I was brought up in a similar manner as I choose to raise my daughter. She fully respects me and my wife, her step mom, and she uses words that are lacking in many kids today. She says Yes Sir/Ma'am and No Sir/Ma'am because I taught her from an early age to say those words and to respect others. As with kids though sometimes it is necessary to punish them. My way is the way I choose as your way is the way you chose. I fully respect your style of parenting and I hope you would do the same for me and the style I and others chose.
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I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!
Teddy Roosevelt
www.warriorlegacyfoundation.org
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| Post Number: 47
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ANTILIBERAL
Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: Aug. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,6:57 pm |
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Wareagle11B
Okay, just for the sake of me understanding your situation, what is a "if necessary situation"?
For example, my kids are a lot younger than yours and I have not had to deal with teenage issues yet. But if my kids do not follow directions, they are given a time out. If they continue to not follow direction. I take away something important to them. I may put them to bed early or take away Wii time or computer time. Something that shows them I mean business. In their world, their toys and tv shows or cookies mean the everything to them. To a teenager, I am assuming cell phones or ipods or even evenings out with friends would be important.
I have often wondered what a child thinks when they are being hit. We tell our children to keep their hands to themselves, to treat others as they want to be treated and the classic one, don't ever hit - yet we hit. What kind of mixed message is that?
Please do not think I am being nasty I am simply trying to understand. You have been very nice in your responses and it is a refreshing change.
I have to admit though, I can be out in public whether it be the grocery store, Wal-Mart or where ever and see someone screaming at the top of their lungs at their kids. Or grabbing the kids so hard by the arm and dragging them to follow. It is very difficult to keep quiet and many times I have spoken up. Makes me wonder if they are like that in public - how do they act behind closed doors?
Or as in the case of this thread, you have a person in an authority position who is accused of being an abuser to a young child. Maybe in his mind, if it indeed happened that way, thought that his style of discipline is okay too.
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| Post Number: 48
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Jan. 18 2008,8:05 pm |
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QUOTE Please do not think I am being nasty I am simply trying to understand. You have been very nice in your responses and it is a refreshing change.
Yes! It is very refreshing!!!
Antiliberal--you speak the same words I have over and over again to people who choose spanking as a form of discipline. Although it is not the form of discipline I have ever chosen for my children, I have learned a great deal about abuse and it's affects on children.
The physical act of spanking, the type where the parent gives a warning..."I'm giving you the choice to either stop that behavior or you will get a spanking." Follows through..."Okay, you made the choice to continue with the behavior. That means a spanking." Parent does not say anything during the act of spanking...it does not leave any marks or bruising ...it is not excessive...is without the parent having anger or frustration...is not abusive.
It's the parent who observes their child doing something wrong and suddenly approaches them and starts swatting them on the behind while in anger or frustration and begins making comments, "I can't believe you were just doing that...what a stupid idea...What were you thinking? You don't have any respect. I can't stand you." This parent is capable of not leaving any bruises or marks on the child also, however I do think this type of spanking is abusive.
The old saying of "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me," is simply not true. The fact is, a continuous wounding of a child's self-esteem and self-worth, a continuous message that they should feel guilt and shame for who their parents think they are or why they misbehave, as part of discipline, will ALWAYS be more damaging than a spanking.
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| Post Number: 49
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White Pride
weißer Stolz
Group: Members
Posts: 884
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2008,1:33 am |
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(ANTILIBERAL @ Jan. 18 2008,12:54 am)
QUOTE White Pride I am very curious to know if you give out the same type of disipline to your own children? I don't know if you have any kids or not but studies show that the abused children grow up to be abusers. I find that a very sad fact. A vicious cycle. One that can stop.
Growing up, I have to admit, I was not hit. I was never a victem of any type of abuse. I knew by the tone of my parents voice that I had better change my current behavior or face the consequences which were always age appropriate. No phone. No t.v. No dessert. Those types of things. My up bringing was strong on individual consciences and living with your own actions and choices. I was talked to. I was not hit.
As a parent and like many of you, I work many hours per week. I am a full-time student and struggle to find balance in life. Stress is very real and alive at our house too, yet through all of this, my children are and always will be my life. I try very hard not to yell but instead to talk. I do this by bending down at thier 4 and 6 year old level. My tone is calm. My demeanor is as their teacher.
Many people are so busy with themselves that they forget about the kids. Everything I do, I do for them. I don't go to bars. I don't go and gamble. I don't go out without my kids. If they want me to read them a book, I drop everything and read them a book. We play all the time. I don't toss them aside and then get pissed off when they misbehave. They are children. They are learning.
To Wareeagle 11B, I am wondering what type of message you are sending your 13 year old daughter? Instead of reasoning with her, she gets wacked. So what you are saying is that hitting teaches respect. I believe that hitting teaches just the opposite. Lets say you died tomorrow in a freak accident. What will your daughter remember about you? Maybe something like, "dad was ok, but he used to hit me!" Next time your daughter lips off to you, sit her down. Talk to her. Tell her how she makes you feel when she does that. Maybe take her cell phone away or something of importance to show you mean business. Stick to it. Be consistant and follow through. I am by no means "super mom" but I am consistant and my children are very well behaved - and I did not have to beat them to make them act that way.
And finally, to Busy Bee
Yep - got my hard hat on!!
... and this country wonders why the kids are so messed up. Your kids will most likely grow up to be known as the spoiled little brats that today's studies show. You can't treat a child as an equal. They don't have the capacity to respond in an adult-like manner. Aside from the studies, hasn't anyone noticed how much more lippy and out of control kids have become, since the courts have deemed it abuse to dicipline your kids? Strange when you think about it huh... less dicipline, more out of control... who would have ever thought?
And before someone lights into me about how many of the murderers, rapists, prision residents, etc.. are former victims of abuse as a child... let me just say this. I am well aware of how abuse can have an affect in the negative manner... but corporal punishment is NOT abuse. You have your pampered spoiled kids, you have your diciplined kids, and you have your abused kids. The middle group grow up to be respectable people.
Don't try to change my opinion on this. I based this opinion on the facts of studies, and what I see in society every day. If you feel you must say something to the contrary, just simply tell me what proof you have seen to the contrary, and I will seriously consider it.
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Dr. Pride here
I'm an ENGLISH speaking white GERMAN-AMERICAN, and DAMN PROUD OF IT!
What bothers people more... the fact others disagree w/them, or that the others just might be right after all?
If you're being stupid, acting stupid, or just plain stupid, I will not hesitate to let u know!
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| Post Number: 50
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