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| Post Number: 11
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jimhanson 
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,5:38 pm |
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Churla--good point--he didn't say anything about Peete or Culpepper--those are the only ones that come to mind (like I said, I'm not a big sports fan)--any others?
The whole thing kind of reminds me of the Congressional Black Caucus--ex-Congresswoman Carole Mosley-Braun, for example, or Charlie Rangel (author of the statement "even to this day, 150 years later, sharks still follow the path taken by the slave ships, hoping they will throw somebody off")--despite outrageous statements, everybody has to tread very lightly about being critical of any one of them--even though they are some of the most public figures out there--taking criticism is PART of being a public figure--in sports, entertainment, or politics.
Edited by jimhanson on Oct. 03 2003,5:48 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 12
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,5:48 pm |
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I agree that McNabb is over-rated, however rush should have simply stated that and left the race argument out of it. There are 9 (count 'em 9) starting black QB's in the NFL, and their ratings span the gambit, just as any 9 white QB's. Does race have to do with his inflated ratings? I doubt it.
Now the controversy, why did so many people get upset over his remarks? Simple, when he is on his radio show, people who want to listen to him tune in. The audience is predominantly right-wing, so his non-PC crap usually flies without much controversy (since he is preaching to the choir so-to-speak). The pregame show, however, is viewed by a wider audience (not in numbers but in viewer demographics) so his comments were held to a higher standard.
I am also glad that the windbag resigned. When I watch NFL pregame shows, I do not expect nor want social commentary. Rush can go back to his radio show, where he can control what his call-in critics say (with the volume and mute buttons) and his audience already knows what his views are. I can already hear Rush somehow trying to put the blame for this all on Clinton...
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 13
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GEOKARJO
Google This!!!
Group: Members
Posts: 7799
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,5:51 pm |
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Here is a great icon
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| Post Number: 14
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,6:09 pm |
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CPU--you're right, but does this mean that even TALKING about race is taboo?
I agree with Hoosier--this wasn't a good decision to hire Rush, he is far too controversial and polarizing for this venue--and that is sad, too. I've got to believe ESPN hired him BECAUSE they wanted something controversial--otherwise, they would have only play-by-play. Howard Cosell filled that role on Monday Night Football--people loved him or hated him (remember the "throw a brick through the old TV for $20" promotions at bars?), but Rush is even more controversial than Cosell.
How sad that "speaking our minds" is O.K., as long as we mouth the "accepted" line--that "Diversity" means "we must all speak alike"--that we must engage in Orwellian "newspeak" and "doublespeak", when things are described as opposite to what we know they really are. We avoid controversy and meaningful conversation, staring down, avoiding eye contact, keeping a low profile, not wanting to attract attention.
I know I've run across this image before--I originally thought it was in a movie, but now I remember where I saw it--it was in the book "One Day in the life of Ivan Denisovitch", who later wrote The Gulag Archipelago--a description of life in Soviet-era prison camps, by Nobel prize-winning author Aleksandr Solzhenitzen. It has taken 55 years since Orwell made his prophecy in 1984, and 41 years since Ivan Denisovitch--but life is indeed imitating the book. 
Edited by jimhanson on Oct. 03 2003,6:16 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 15
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KODIAK
Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,6:12 pm |
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Kordell Stewart (Chicago Bears) is having an abysmal year, but the expectations have not ever really been high on him, he has suffered years of mediocrity at Pittsburgh prior to this. However, he was hyped as this new dimensional "slash" qb who was a threat to run, throw, receive etc. Because he has been dissapointing for awhile, he is simply called a bad player.
McNabb however, has struggled in his first 3 games (nfl.com has all the stats, and for fantasy football geeks like me this is no problem on info) and he has gone to the pro bowl the last two years. Add that to the marketing of an East Coast team (see chunky soup commericials) and the criticism starts.
What Rush should have said is that he is over hyped, and left it at that. He certainly is that. His stats are above average (td's thrown, yardage etc.) but his expectations are currently higher. That is the nature of sports, and sports commentary. The forum of sports is meant for hyperbole and second guess analysis,.....the armchair qb living vicariously through others. Everyone can play in those conditions, and therefore it has immense popularity.
So what are we saying? Rush gave commentary, but gave a generality ("the media wanted a black player to succeed..")that doomed him to attack. The sporting world was not ready for that level of honesty yet. Rush can get by with overstatement and exaggeration on his radio show, and thats what people (like me) enjoy and tune into that show for. The average sport fan probably did not want to hear the same levels as they were sitting down to a beer and pizza last Sunday. Good subject.
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"Dyin ain't much of a living.....boy" Clint (Outlaw Josie Wales)
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| Post Number: 16
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,6:19 pm |
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Kodiak--you have the stats--somebody told me that Rush quoted a sports writer that compared McNabb this year, and last year, with our own former Viking, Brad Johnson. Can you post the relevant figures?
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 17
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The Advocate
Unregistered
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,6:36 pm |
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The problem I see is that Rush Limbaugh is a racist so when he verbalizes anything with any reference at all to race it is racist...not racial. I don't want to go down that long winding Clinton road with what does "it" mean; come on, the guy is a card carrying John Bircher and in my book that is not a good thing. I attempt to find redemption in all peoples views, and to understand that the vast majority of people are far more complex than to be pigeon-holed but I am still waiting for this guy to expand himself.
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| Post Number: 18
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pete
Group: Members
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,7:40 pm |
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Liberal,
If that statement was racist, what about the next time someone plays the race card saying they did not get the job etc because they are a person of color? Seem like there is a huge double standard at work.
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| Post Number: 19
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 03 2003,7:40 pm |
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Advocate--| Quote | | The problem I see is that Rush Limbaugh is a racist so when he verbalizes anything with any reference at all to race it is racist...not racial. |
So now we can't even have similar sounding words, with completely different meanings? Sounds like the case of the school teacher that got fired by the "overly-sensitive" school board for using the word "niggardly"! 
| Quote | racist
adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion [syn: antiblack, anti-Semitic, anti-Semite(a)] n : a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others [syn: racialist] |
| Quote | racial
\Ra"cial\, a. Of or pertaining to a race or family of men; as, the racial complexion. |
Once again, look at the definitions above. Limbaugh didn't say anything about McNabb being inferior because he was black, he didn't single out blacks as somehow being inferior, I believe he said that (paraphrase) The (industry) as a whole had a fervent desire to see a black quarterback succeed, and therefore over-rated him. The facts appear to be that he WAS over-rated. Nothing racist in that remark, but he did make a comment regarding race relations, and God help us if we can no longer even DISCUSS race relations!
| Quote | | come on, the guy is a card carrying John Bircher and in my book that is not a good thing. |
I can't say with 100% certainty that he ISN'T a Bircher, but a Google search of John Birch Society Rush Limbaugh member turned up 701 references. I only read the first 50--no reference to membership there, but I DID turn up this diatribe and denunciation of Limbaugh from their official spokesman, so I would guess he is NOT a member in good standing.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1995/vo11no14/vo11no14_limbaugh.htm
Do you have proof that he IS a John Birch Society member, or was that hyperbole?
Edited by jimhanson on Oct. 03 2003,7:56 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 20
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hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 04 2003,11:10 am |
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I agree with cpu_slave, I dont want to turn on ESPN and have tp listen to Rush, no more than I wanted to see Dennis Miller do Monday Night football. Rush says that he cannot understand what all the fuss is about, that if Shawn Hannity had said the same thing it wouldnt even be noticed. I can agree with that, but not just because he is Rush, Shawn Hannity could get away with it because he isnt on ESPN. Rush is, or was, But just look at the racial make up of the league, my guess is that it is at least 70 percent black, or more. If the black players had gotten together they could make it pretty hard on ESPN to do their job in the NFL.
McNabb is a very good QB, he is not your typical pocket passer, but other than maybe Payton Manning and Kurt Warner, the day of the pocket passer are gone. Michael Vick is what a lot of people in the NFL think of when they think of the QB of the future.
I can assure you that as far as the NFL teams go, they are not going to start anyone for just racial reasons, the coach's job depends on wins, he is going to put the best out on the field. Rush was talking about media over hype, funny isnt it? The most self over hyped person in the world calling someone else over hyped.
ESPN waited way to long, they should have done the right thing and fired him before he could quit, the person responsible for hireing him should be looking for a new job also. I understand that the ratings went up after they hired Rush, but was it real football fans, or did a bunch of Rush's radio cronnies come to listen to him spout his bull$hit?
To ESPN, in the future, just hire football people to talk about football, you dont see Michael Irvin doing political commentary, we dont want to see Rush doing football either.
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The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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