|
|
| Post Number: 1
|
Ole1kanobe 
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
 |
Posted on: Sep. 11 2003,10:11 pm |
|
   |
Did anyone see the story tonight on ABC about being able to slip depleted uranium into the county (AGAIN) from Indonesia to a port in LA?
Now the government has launched an investigation towards ABC and blames the 'slip' on the fact that they did not list on the ships manifest that they had uranium.
Like the reporter from ABC news told him, we didn't list it because we do not feel that a terrorist would have.
Is our entire government structure in this country more hell-bent on laying blame and finding excuses versus getting the info and fixing the problem. To my knowledge, only 2 people in Congress have stuck up for ABC stating that they have revealed weaknesses that need to be addressed (paraphrased). We are talking about national security for god's sake!
It is kind of like the hackers that breach Microsoft's own servers, then email them to tell them how they got in so they can patch the security hole, but when the same hacker goes back a week or so later the same hole still exists, but yet they say it is the hackers fault.
What a joke.
--------------
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 2
|
jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 11 2003,11:20 pm |
|
 |
Less than 2% of all containers on a container ship--tens of thousands of cubic yards--receive even a cursory inspection. Same thing for drugs--"Miami Vice" might make for good television showing speedboats or airplanes bringing it in--but that is rarely the case. Why risk an expensive speedboat or airplane--subject to easy detection and confiscation, and a boat driver or airplane pilot that might turn state's evidence and tell all he knows about the operation--when you can just ship it common carrier, have little risk of detection, NO money or informants involved, and can keep your distance? If not on a container ship, how about in the belly cargo of nearly every commercial jetliner? Hardly ANY of the belly cargo (whose revenue usually is higher than the passengers seated above for the airlines) is inspected. That's why flight crews consider the "Transportation Security Agency" and "Department of Homeland Security" such a joke. Metal detectors, profiling, frisking, taking off your shoes--it's all for show--the REAL threat is the cargo hold!
I have no doubt about the ease of slipping objects by "screeners", but one thing troubles me about the story. DEPLETED uranium? That's the stuff armor-piercing artillery shells are made of, and though very dense, are hardly radioactive.
"A common misconception is that radiation is depleted uranium's primary hazard. This is not the case under most battlefield exposure scenarios. Depleted uranium is approximately 40 percent less radioactive than natural uranium. Depleted uranium emits alpha and beta particles, and gamma rays. Alpha particles, the primary radiation type produced by depleted uranium, are blocked by skin, while beta particles are blocked by the boots and battle dress utility uniform (BDUs) typically worn by service members. While gamma rays are a form of highly-penetrating energy , the amount of gamma radiation emitted by depleted uranium is very low. Thus, depleted uranium does not significantly add to the background radiation that we encounter every day."--source, gulfscientific journal
Could it be they meant "enriched" uranium--the makings of an atomic, or "dirty" bomb?
--------------
"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 3
|
hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,12:06 am |
|
|
Jim, I seen the story, they were very clear that it was depleted uranium. They had some radioactive expert say that it was harmless, but should, and would show up as giving a radioactive signal, they even showed it doing so. It showed a high signal even in a steel pipe lined with lead, they said it would give the same signal as a small nuclear device.
--------------
The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 4
|
1adam12
Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,10:39 am |
|
|
The story is at
htp://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Primetime/sept11_uranium030910.html
They used depleted uranium because it's legal to import, and they wouldn't get in trouble. Their nuclear physicist claimed the screening devices being used would have picked it up.
Plain and simple, the container didn't get checked. Somebody's a$$ should get kicked over this, and I don't mean the reporters...
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 5
|
Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,10:49 am |
|
|
My thoughts exactly 1adam12.
--------------
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 6
|
Minnow
Unregistered
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,11:31 am |
|
|
You people are silly and worse than that you're wrong.
There is no way humanly possible to check every I and cross every T, so to speak. It is absolutely impossible to make the world 100% safe and even if we could the cost would be too great. People and products would slow to the point where locked trade would kill much more people than terrorism.
It's like saying I'm mad because one person drove without a license ....so as a remedy...no one shall ever drive again. The cure is worse than the disease. Don't fall for all the 9/11 hype. It's just a group of radicals who hijacked a few planes at the same time. When we change our lives so much as too avoid the boogy man we let the terrorists win. Don't believe da hype and don't let peole use 9/11 to push their own selfish agendas. When you do..we all lose.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 7
|
Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,11:47 am |
|
|
You're right Minnow, there is no 100% security, but when something as potentially dangerous as uranium gets through the border, we have to do something.
I worked for a company that would get product sent over from South Africa via container that came in on a ship. sometime our container would be inspected twice before it would be allowed to pass through customs, so I know for a fact that they have the ability to delay a shipment while the inspect it.
Maybe they need a new system, new equipment? The way I see it, things of this nature (uranium, depleted or not) should be on the top of the list, versus drugs. I can not think of one drug that can be used to construct a dirty bomb. I can not think of one drug that can blow up an entire building, yet that seems to be what they target most coming into the country. Maybe it is because they can use dogs to sniff the stuff out, therefore making it easier to find. I really don't know.
I guess I think that if we can send a man to the moon, we should be able to devise a system to catch radiated material coming into our borders. At least it would seem to be a priority to me.
Like the guy from the dock said, if that was a dirty bomb, it could have been detonated right in the middle of LA, killing and injuring unknown amounts of people. Is that something that we should just say 'oh well, we can't catch everything that comes into the country' to?
I'm not saying that we can make everything 100% safe, but why can't we realistically try for some better measures than we have right now?
--------------
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
-Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat.
-nphilbro-
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 8
|
hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,11:57 am |
|
|
Minnow, I agree, the problem to me isnt that it slipped through, the problem is the government telling us everything is safe and ok, this wont happen. But you know, they did see it, they had an xray of the container, it showed what looked like a pipe bomb inside, still nothing. But you know, it reminds me of Repdans movie post, Dont piss down my back and tell me its raining. Like I said, my problem isnt so much that it made it, my problem is they told us it wouldnt. Minnow, just a question, why posting registered one time and not registered the next? Sometimes we wonder if the unregistered is really you. And Ole1, you are right, just remember where this container originated, a muslim country with ties to Bin Laden, if we cant check that, then something is wrong. But this program just goes to show you that we are in much more danger than the government wants us to believe. Not telling the truth for political purposes? Not our government. 
Edited by hoosier on Sep. 12 2003,12:00 pm
--------------
The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 9
|
jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,3:34 pm |
|
|
Once again, it makes no difference if it is depleted uranium or not. Much as I deplore the sensationalism of ABC news, and their attempt to sensationalize the story by using the scare word "uranium", the truth of the matter is that our borders ARE porous. Minnow is correct--everybody is over-reacting.
The purpose of terrorism is NOT to kill Americans, it is to INSTILL FEAR AND TERROR. There is more to be lost by our own actions than by that of the terrorists. We have already spent untold Billions of dollars, wrecked our entire airline industry, thrown over a hundred thousand people out of work, caused a major slowdown in our transportation industry and in our economy, taken away civil rights, and terrified half the population of the country. Pretty good work for the cost of 19 zealots, I'd say.
The terrorists were COUNTING on the normal government reaction of having to be SEEN AS DOING SOMETHING. The LAST thing we need to do is to over-react. What are we going to do--inspect every shipping container and airline belly cargo? Require identification papers for passage from place to place? The U.S. Army wouldn't be up to that task.
--------------
"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 10
|
hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Sep. 12 2003,4:12 pm |
|
|
Again, I think you misunderstand who we are upset with. The boarders are porous, everyone believes that. The problem is Bush and Tom Ridge telling us all that all the money we are spending is making us safe. They are telling us it is working. At least thats my point, I just want the government to be honest and tell me that they can never stop anything like this happening. Instead, they try to say that the reson they didnt notice it was because ABC didnt put it on the manifest. Come on, get real, is anyone looking to attack the U.S. in this way going to put NUCLEAR BOMB on the box and in the paper work. If you cant see the political bull sh it here you are blind.
--------------
The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
