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| Post Number: 21
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hoosier 
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2003,8:04 pm |
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LOL, just had to get that older than me jab in, 
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The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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| Post Number: 22
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cpu_slave
Group: Members
Posts: 297
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 24 2003,12:40 pm |
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Just to let everyone here know, my shrub bashing has nothing to do with partisan politics. It has more to do with the fact that he is a moron running this country into the ground than what political party he is a member of. Hoosier is right in the fact that both sides are playing the very same game, yet it depends on which side of the fence you are on whether or not you believe so-in-so is right or wrong.
With the extremes of both the left and the right, it is very hard to find someone willing to take the middle ground and so we saw the rise of 3rd party candidates. Somehow during the last election, both major parties started making an effort to make it seem like a vote for a 3rd party candidate was throwing your vote away. I mean look at the numbers, Penny was leading by some pretty decent numbers in the polls then all the sudden it goes south?
Jim, when you asked the question 'when did it start being like this?' I guess I must be a little younger then both you and Hoosier because I have always seen it this way. The first election I remember was Carter/Reagan back in '80 (and I was still about a decade away from being able to vote) and every election since has been nothing but extreme party vs. party with plenty of 'special interest' trying to help us poor, ignorant masses see the light and choose their candidate. You mention a time when you did not think politics was so uncivilized, but looking back through history books I can see that there may have been only a few times where politics was not too corrupt.
To many citizens, the political system in this country has become a corrupt beast, too big to control and so they become apathetic. Ask people who vote in any state or national election, are they voting for the best candidate for the position or simply the lesser of two evils? Partisan politics have ruined this country, and looking back at the last presidential election I have always thought to myself that the best republican candidate was passed over for an easily mislead moron. Don't get me wrong here, I have no early favorite democrat but I imagine that they too will screw this up somehow.
Here is a quote to sum up the ignorance of too many in today's society:
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." -- Britney Spears
Since the republicans will not back anyone other then shrub, then I don't care who the democrat is, just kick bush to the curb in 2004!
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An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.-James A. Michener
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from wise men.- Marcus Cato
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| Post Number: 23
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 24 2003,1:07 pm |
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Sure, YOU had to get a jab in at my age (56), too! (sob!)  I can tell you, Jefferson/Adams wasn't this nasty! Seriously, the first Presidential election I can remember was Eisenhower/Stevenson, in 1956 (that would make me 9 at the time)--but it really seemed civil. I really believe that the erosion happened not during, but AFTER the Nixon/Kennedy debates of 1960--the election was closer in the popular vote than even the 2000 election. The power of media presence put Kennedy over the top (Kennedy appeared youthful, and Nixon had "five-o-clock shadow", sweated, and looked furtive), and Party media people recognized the power of television.
I realize there are not many out there with the l-o-n-g perspective of age that I have, (:) sarcasm) but I would like to hear what others have to say about the questions I posed on "How we got this way--and can it be undone".
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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| Post Number: 24
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hoosier
Group: Members
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Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 24 2003,1:13 pm |
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Nice post cpu_slave. If I had my way we would abolish the parties all together. To me they are the biggest problem we have. The politicians first loyalty is to the party. As for the Britney Spears comment, that would be really scary if it was coming from someone with a brain. She has no idea what is going on so she says the easiest thing she can think of instead of debating someone on the issues.
The first person I voted for was John Anderson, an independent, I was only 18 or 19, cant remember for sure. But every election since then I have voted for the independent if one is available. As far as people wasting their votes on independents, to me the only vote that is wasted is the one that is not cast for the person you truely believe in, not just the one you think will win.
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The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw
The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants
We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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| Post Number: 25
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 24 2003,1:56 pm |
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John Anderson--you're getting old, too!
Like it or not (I don't), but Britney is an icon of her generation--and of potential voters. These "celebrities" carry weight, especially among the young and impressionable--not for what they KNOW, but for who they ARE. See the web site Hollywood half-wits for a listing of some truly outrageous outbursts.
In peripherally related news, I see the Dixie Chicks have abandoned Country Music because of their treatment by DJs, other Country artists, and their fans. They failed to garner any awards at the Country Music awards, and their nominations were greeted by boos from the crowd. The DCs now say they will be strictly rock and roll--where their fans are. Don't think they will last long on MTV--especially without the extensive "retouching" (body switch) like the E magazine cover. 
Edited by jimhanson on Sep. 24 2003,1:57 pm
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"If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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