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Post Number: 21
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Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 10 2003,12:04 am |
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The only pitfall would be those that can't pay, I think you would have to offer them a work-off-your-debt plan or something along those lines. Equal protection of the law maybe? How many inmates are there already in Freeborn county that don't have a job or other income? I don't think charging the family for their relatives crime would be right... Not sure how that could be worked.
-------------- The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat. -nphilbro-
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Post Number: 22
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Ole1kanobe
Group: Members
Posts: 1360
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 10 2003,12:10 am |
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And while we're at it, is the new jail being wired for cabel tv in all of the cell blocks? If so, WHY!!!!! I think that would be a fair place to start if they want to try and cut costs, save a few hundred feet of coax cabeling and labor charges.
-------------- The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein-
Some of what is said here (myself included) is about as tolerable as listening to someone vacuum a cat. -nphilbro-
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Post Number: 23
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 10 2003,8:09 am |
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Dan--section 1 of the law you posted says $10 (it didn't say $10 a day, but I'd assume that is the case. Wasn't the proposal for $20? How does that square with the law?
-------------- "If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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Post Number: 24
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1adam12
Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 10 2003,8:31 am |
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Jim, the $10 was called a "booking fee" when I was there. It was a one-time charge, no matter if you were there a week or a year. On the other hand, work-release inmates had to pay something like $7 a day they worked. None of the inmates I ever knew, if employed at the time, would let their job go just to avoid paying the $10. Jail is extremely boring, and these guys wanted the chance to be out working instead of sitting on their cans. Even the ones who weren't working would ask the judge for work-release to apply for jobs, just so they could be on the outside for awhile.
Inmates also pay a minimal fee towards medical visits, but this was more of a deterrent to frivolous clinic trips.
I don't know how they are increasing the fee to $20, unless the law was revised.
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Post Number: 25
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Liberal
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11451
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 11 2003,5:08 pm |
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Why not look at making them work while they're locked up instead of making them pay when they get out? I'm sure we have plenty of county jobs that your average criminal is capable of doing and if we could cut just 1 or 2 jobs this way we would save a lot more than we would ever collect from shaking down drunks for pocket change.
-------------- The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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Post Number: 26
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minnow
Unregistered
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Posted on: Sep. 11 2003,8:12 pm |
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How about putting them to work shining Gabes shoes?
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Post Number: 27
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hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 15 2003,8:29 am |
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Getting inmates to pay jail costs proves difficult, counties find Associated Press Published September 15, 2003 JAIL16 Charging jail inmates for some of the cost of locking them up isn't paying off like some county officials had hoped.
``I think the public needs to understand that there is a good lesson here,'' Paul Wilson, a county commissioner in Olmsted County, which found its collection program cost more than it brought in. ``Even with the best intentions, you cannot get blood out of a turnip.''
During the past year, at least one-quarter of Minnesota counties started charging for room and board. Dubbed ``pay to stay,'' the purpose was two-fold: bring in money to help offset ever-rising jail costs and send a message to criminals that jail will cost them in more ways than one.
But few inmates bother to pay.
In the first four months, Olmsted County spent about $13,000 in administrative costs to collect $7,261. The county, which is home to Rochester, collected less than 2 percent of the $546,450 it billed. Now the county is switching from a sliding scale fee of up to $70 to a flat $25 fee in an effort to rein in costs.
No one expected the majority of inmates to pay their bills, and many counties did not project revenue before they started. But law enforcement and court officials now are debating whether pay-to-stay efforts are a good use of staff time. Some jail administrators say the revenue isn't worth the work, and defense attorneys argue that there are more effective methods to curb escalating jail costs.
Sheriffs' officials, however, say it's too soon to determine how much the fees will generate in the long term and that earning something is better than nothing.
``A dollar derived from people who pay to stay is a dollar that taxpayers don't have to contribute,'' said Chief Deputy Scott Gudmundson of Sherburne County, where staff has collected about $15,000 so far, or about 2 percent of the amount that has been billed in the first year. ``Certainly it's worth it. If it's a buck, it's a buck.''
Gudmundson can thank his brother for the revenue the county has received.
Dakota County Sheriff Don Gudmundson pushed for the creation of a boarding fee after he saw three inmates walk out of his jail one day with a total of $4,000 in their pockets. The Metropolitan Inter-County Association asked legislators to write a bill to allow the fee, which was charged in several other states. It became law last summer. The fees generally range from $20 to $35.
Charging for room and board is new, but counties have passed along some fees to inmates for years. Such fees have increased dramatically in recent years, however, and public defenders say their clients can't afford the bill.
``I had many homeless clients, people sleeping under highway bridges,'' said John Stuart, a past Hennepin County public defender who is now the state's chief public defender. ``How they are expected to come up with money to pay a booking fee, a jail fee, a probation fee and a law library fee is beyond me.''
Some counties have gotten clever with collection methods.
``Pay to Stay Special!!!'' states a flyer given to inmates at the Dakota County jail, inviting them to contact a staff person to ``find out your special rate.'' Inmates who pay in full within seven days of their release get a 25 percent discount.
Scott County might hire a collection agency - something that several other counties have already done - and may allow inmates to use credit cards.
``If we can increase what we are collecting, yes it's definitely worth it,'' said Lt. Doug Schnurr, who oversees the jail. ``Right now at 6 percent (collection rate) I think it's more of a hassle and is putting a bigger strain on my staff than is necessary.''
Maybe we should just raise taxes to make up the difference. Of course, only after we spend 25 grand on a study to find out the same things other counties have already done.
And take a look at the idiot sherriff that said, "A buck is a buck, thats a dollar the tax payers dont have to come up with." What an idiot, a buck isnt a buck if you have to spend 5 bucks to get one buck. Is it any wonder our counties and towns are in poor financial shape with people like this in charge?
Edited by hoosier on Sep. 15 2003,8:34 am
-------------- The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. George Bernard Shaw The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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Post Number: 28
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 15 2003,9:14 am |
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Gabrielson seems to be of two minds on this issue. When I talked to him last week, he acknowledged that they weren't going to have much luck getting money from most inmates. He said that they were going to get a credit card machine, and those with a credit card could pay that way. He said that they won't get money from someone in for theft, but they may get money from a drug dealer--someone that HAS money. Similarly, he said they would get money from someone who did something stupid--a DWI for example.
The areas I am uncomfortable with are:
They will present a bill to the person when the order comes down for release. If the person refuses to pay at the time, "we will get two witnesses that will acknowledge that they refused to pay". I asked if the release would be held up if the inmate refused to pay. He said "it may take another 8 hours to process the paperwork, then the inmate would have to spend another night in jail, and another $20. Do they want to get out or not? If they have the ability to pay, they will."
We seem to be building in an inverse class system here. The poor, or career criminal, won't in all likelyhood have to pay, but an otherwise law-abiding citizen, picked up for DWI or a minor violation, will be socked.
-------------- "If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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Post Number: 29
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hoosier
Group: Members
Posts: 1476
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 15 2003,4:51 pm |
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I beg to differ, if we spend 10 dollars to collect 1 dollar, every tax payer in Freeborn County will be socked. I mean come on, this sounds a lot like Gabrialson spending thousands of dollars to fight 15 minutes of overtime by a police officer at his last job. Now he is going to fight the lawsuit over rule 19, spending thousands of tax payer money to fight rather than compromise, and looks like he wants to spend more tax payer money, spending more to collect than the county takes in, more deficit spending. When is it going to end? Seriously, how do these people get to be in the job they hold? Gabrialson has got to be the biggest idiot in Freeborn county government history.
Edited by hoosier on Sep. 15 2003,4:51 pm
-------------- The power of accurate obsvervation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. George Bernard Shaw The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause. Grigory Pomerants We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire. Garet Garrett
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Post Number: 30
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jimhanson
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8491
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Sep. 15 2003,5:14 pm |
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Gabrielson mentioned that they were going to propose implementing the system--then said that it wouldn't bring in big money. Maybe we could get Dan Belshan to ask him which one he favors--like the last budget meeting!
My point was--I don't think it is right to "invent ways" to hold someone in jail for another day--AFTER the release was signed--in an attempt to extort them into giving the County money--when the County knows well and good that they can't do that. It smells of "we're going to do this, even though we know it's illegal--BECAUSE WE CAN!
-------------- "If you want to anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. If you want to anger a LIBERAL, tell him the TRUTH!"
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