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| Post Number: 11
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Santorini 
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Aug. 05 2012,12:52 pm |
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Busybee, no one is denying you went through hell. Anyone in an abusive relationship goes through hell. You continually write there was no where to turn, not the police, apparently not the courts, social services...am I right?
What about family? any friends or co-workers?
Did you try any shelters?
Did you leave the town you live in and search out other sources since no one would help you where you were?
How about tape-recorders or video cameras to gather evidence?
Did you ask for a police escort at your home so you and your kids could safely leave?
People choose to stay for various reasons. Fear is typically the biggest reason. Fear of the unknown, fear of failure, fear of the abuser, fear of being alone.
I do feel bad for you that you experienced such hell. There are always 2 sides to a story, however. He was obviously someone who got off on intimidation, power and control. He is obviously someone who thought very little of himself, and took his unhappiness out on you. However, you had the power to get out. To not subject your kids to the abuse. Because you chose to stick around the abuse continued because you gave him control. You eventually did take your power back and got out. Good for you!!  You managed to find the courage and the strength. I just question why it takes so long? Why were the kids even exposed to abuse even after just once? That I will never understand. I have always told my spouse if he ever felt the need to hit me to get his best shot cause its the only one hes gonna get.
But good for you for creating a new life. But that new life has to include letting go of the past for you to truely move forward and progress. Sounds more like you are stuck in the abusive past as you have let it define you.
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 12
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| Post Number: 13
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Grinning_Dragon
rideo draconigena
Group: Members
Posts: 3095
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Aug. 05 2012,4:36 pm |
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(This is my real name @ Aug. 03 2012,6:53 am)
QUOTE
(busybee @ Aug. 02 2012,11:31 pm)
QUOTE I just don't understand when people take their own life why others attempt to place the blame on someone or something else that "brought it on/made the person do it.
Taking one's own life is a personal choice..no one else is to blame. Try having a little compassion. If he truly reached out for help and was laughed at, then yes, someone else is at least partially to blame. They might have been able to prevent it. How long did you stay in the abusive relationship you regularly mention here? Were YOU to blame for staying in that situation?
I agree with Busybee on this one.
One can show some compassion of such a terrible event such as this and still be able to objectively and logically weigh the outcome. To do so does not say one is uncaring or having a lack of compassion. We humans tend to interject the usage of the word 'compassion' to assuage our thoughts on things we cannot understand or express, to lessen the pain to ourselves or others.
First lets take a look at the word suicide.
The word 'suicide' comes from the Latin words sui (of oneself) and cide or ciduim (a killing). Now, nowhere in this definition, is the assistance of an external force. If this were the case, I would think that the word homicide would be the correct term. If I were to go by your account of an outside source of why this person committed suicide, then those who either laughed or refused to help, would also be culpable in this persons death.
Citing being laughed at or the lack of help does not place blame on anyone else for a person committing suicide, even partially as you claim. If a person has it in their mind to end it, no amount of reasoning or interfering is going to work. People always try to find a reason for why (X) happens, it is how our brains work, we are taught that causation = correlation, when in fact this is not always the case nor is it ad infinitum.
Also pointing to one incident of a bad situation to justify another is a poor analytical justification.
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*SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS / MOLON LABE / Se Defendendo
memoria of cado frater ,Semper fidelis
*The object of war is NOT to DIE for YOUR Country, but to make the OTHER BASTARD DIE for HIS...Patton
My Constitutional Rights trump your dead.
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| Post Number: 14
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Santorini
Group: Members
Posts: 2015
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Aug. 05 2012,6:39 pm |
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(Grinning_Dragon @ Aug. 05 2012,4:36 pm)
QUOTE
(This is my real name @ Aug. 03 2012,6:53 am)
QUOTE
(busybee @ Aug. 02 2012,11:31 pm)
QUOTE I just don't understand when people take their own life why others attempt to place the blame on someone or something else that "brought it on/made the person do it.
Taking one's own life is a personal choice..no one else is to blame. Try having a little compassion. If he truly reached out for help and was laughed at, then yes, someone else is at least partially to blame. They might have been able to prevent it. How long did you stay in the abusive relationship you regularly mention here? Were YOU to blame for staying in that situation? I agree with Busybee on this one. One can show some compassion of such a terrible event such as this and still be able to objectively and logically weigh the outcome. To do so does not say one is uncaring or having a lack of compassion. We humans tend to interject the usage of the word 'compassion' to assuage our thoughts on things we cannot understand or express, to lessen the pain to ourselves or others. First lets take a look at the word suicide. The word 'suicide' comes from the Latin words sui (of oneself) and cide or ciduim (a killing). Now, nowhere in this definition, is the assistance of an external force. If this were the case, I would think that the word homicide would be the correct term. If I were to go by your account of an outside source of why this person committed suicide, then those who either laughed or refused to help, would also be culpable in this persons death. Citing being laughed at or the lack of help does not place blame on anyone else for a person committing suicide, even partially as you claim. If a person has it in their mind to end it, no amount of reasoning or interfering is going to work. People always try to find a reason for why (X) happens, it is how our brains work, we are taught that causation = correlation, when in fact this is not always the case nor is it ad infinitum. Also pointing to one incident of a bad situation to justify another is a poor analytical justification.
What you are not taking into consideration is the fact that a childs brain is not fully developed until age 25, therefore, you cannot make judgements regarding the reasoning behind a teen suicide prompting the lack of compassion from your perspective.
The part of the brain that restrains risky behavior and affects the thinking and processing skills is not fully developed until age 25. Teenagers make life-choices before the brains decision-making center is fully developed. This includes understanding consequences, reasoning, logic etc. Many teenagers cannot understand the concept that dead is forever!
Many children (which a 17 year old is included!) are incapable of abstract thinking. For you to generalize that suicide is a personal choice when referring to teens is quite baseless and unfounded. So until you understand the complexity of the human brain and stages of change, growth and development you are just demonstrating a true lack of human compassion and understanding.
Further, blame can definitely be cited...its what prompted the incident. Had the child been able to think logically, and fully understand the big picture maybe things could have turned out different. Look at the 9 students in Mass. charged with felonies for the continuous harrassment and bullying of a classmate prompting her to hang herself. People go around and incite anger..cause the problem..then when an incident blows up they are the first to go; I didnt do anything!! So innocent they pretend to be!
Only when people are held responsible for their behavior and their personal choice to bully and harrass will we be able to get a handle on this thing. It is wrong, needs to be addressed seriously because it affects society as a whole. Bullys, harrassers need to be held accountable and be shown their actions have consequences
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best
of the way things turned out." Jack Buck
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| Post Number: 15
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Aug. 05 2012,11:16 pm |
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My reply and post didn't make it on here, regardless of my efforts.
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| Post Number: 16
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Aug. 05 2012,11:32 pm |
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| Post Number: 20
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Botto 82
Group: Members
Posts: 6293
Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: Aug. 06 2012,6:02 pm |
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(busybee @ Aug. 05 2012,11:32 pm)
QUOTE Botto 82 QUOTE Like someone buys into this line of bull in this day and age. :crazy
Self-esteem issues much. Do you think I care if you care if you've never had the experience? You can pass false judgment on me without asking for any facts from me. If that's what makes you feel all right and good about yourself as a person...so be it. I'm happy for you and very thrilled that you've apparently never known in your entire life anyone who treated like a liar even though you were telling the truth or has ever blamed you for another human being's crimes even though you never caused or created them. As I have said many times...IGNORANCE is BLISS!
Was not meaning to judge. I just think that any father that makes that 'I'm going to take the kids away' threat is full of beans, and that the spouses that go in for that have probably been so beaten down by that point that they believe. It's too bad, really.
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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