FACTS: (just a few) NIST and the 911 Commission never tested for explosives, even though hundreds of people reported hearing numerous explosions happening in at least three of the buildings. Firefighters, police, EMT, government workers, reporters, survivors and people on the street reported hearing explosions. News reports caught explosions on audio live, people interviewed live on the air talked about explosions.
NIST and the 911 Commission barely mention any of the other buildings that were destroyed that day. Even though there is evidence and reports of strange things at almost every WTC building destroyed that day. Especially buildings 6 and 7.
Most of the 911 Commission felt that government agencies were lying to them. Alot of the information they recieved from agencies didn't match up with what these agencies had previously stated happened on that day.
People in the North Tower, just one or two floors below plane impact were on the phone with loved ones until 2 minutes before the building collapsed.
At least 12 people on the 78th floor of the South Tower survived and made it out of the building. Floor 78 was partly impacted by the plane.
What about all the fuel and the heat which is supposedly part of the reason the Towers collapsed? How did these people survive?
They've recycled some of the steel from 9-11, and have some stored. Where is the rest of it, and why won't they let experts study it?
These facts alone should warrant another investigation.
Odd coincidences with FACTS: (just a few) Four of the highjackers passports were discovered? One found on the street and given to police even before the buildings collapsed? Two from the crash site in PA, and one in luggage that never made it onto the plane? That's insane, but whatever. Strange things do happen I guess.
Another odd thing about that luggage that didn't make it onto the plane: They find a four page Jihady suicide letter with instructions for 911 in the luggage. Miraculously they find another copy of that letter at the PA crash site? And another copy of the letter in a car of one of the highjackers that crashed into the Pentagon?? Crazy stuff.
Two of the highjackers rented a car in Boston on Sep. 10, drove to Portland Maine, the next day jump on a plane back to Boston, and then get on a different plane for the highjacking.
Weird weird weird. Another weird thing is you never hear about any of this on the news, never hear about all of the people demanding a real investigation, never hear about what a crap job the NIST and 911 Commission did.
You shouldn't ask people why they question the official story, you should ask why so many still believe it. ___ Sources: 911 commission thinks it was lied to: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...00.html
Recovered passports: MS. SUSAN GINSBURG: Beginning with passports. Four of the hijackers passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Abdul Aziz al Omari. http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911...-26.htm
Drive from Boston to Maine, fly back to Boston get on another flight: 1. No physical, documentary, or analytical evidence provides a convincing explanation of why Atta and Omari drove to Portland, Maine, from Boston on the morning of September 10, only to return to Logan on Flight 5930 on the morning of September 11. However, Atta reacted negatively when informed in Portland that he would have to check in again in Boston. Michael Touhey interview (May 27, 2004).Whatever their reason, the Portland Jetport was the nearest airport to Boston with a 9/11 flight that would have arrived at Logan in time for the passengers to transfer to American Airlines Flight 11, which had a scheduled departure time of 7:45 A.M. See Tom Kinton interview (Nov. 6, 2003); Portland International Jetport site visit (Aug. 18, 2003). http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Notes.htm
Passports and Letters found: Atta's luggage and plans. Letter found at PA plane crash: Investigators found two other copies of the letter — one at the crash site in western Pennsylvania, where United Airlines Flight 93 went down, and another in a car believed to have been used by Nawaf Alhazmi, one of the suspected hijackers of American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92398&page=1
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
I read on the internet the USS Maine was an inside job too.
-------------- After we screw up health care reform, let's take on the initiative of unscrewing the education system (gov't education) Tacitus: (c. 56 AD-c. 117) "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
I read on the internet the USS Maine was an inside job too.
I just heard about that today. I had not known about that incident. I will be looking into it when I am able. What do you think about the USS Liberty? I know Israel usually gets full blame, but why no investigation by the US?
Did you see this video? Wow. I was going to try to transcribe it but I'm not good at that and I don't have time right now.
In 1911 the Navy Department ordered a second board of inquiry after Congress voted funds for the removal of the wreck of Maine from Havana Harbor. U.S. Army engineers built a cofferdam around the sunken battleship, thus exposing it, and giving naval investigators an opportunity to examine and photograph the wreckage in detail. Finding the bottom hull plates in the area of the reserve six-inch magazine bent inward and back, the 1911 board concluded that a mine had detonated under the magazine, causing the explosion that destroyed the ship.
Technical experts at the time of both investigations disagreed with the findings, believing that spontaneous combustion of coal in the bunker adjacent to the reserve six-inch magazine was the most likely cause of the explosion on board the ship. In 1976, Admiral Hyman G. Rickover published his book, How the Battleship Maine Was Destroyed. The admiral became interested in the disaster and wondered if the application of modern scientific knowledge could determine the cause. He called on two experts on explosions and their effects on ship hulls. Using documentation gathered from the two official inquiries, as well as information on the construction and ammunition of Maine, the experts concluded that the damage caused to the ship was inconsistent with the external explosion of a mine. The most likely cause, they speculated, was spontaneous combustion of coal in the bunker next to the magazine.
Some historians have disputed the findings in Rickover's book, maintaining that failure to detect spontaneous combustion in the coal bunker was highly unlikely. Yet evidence of a mine remains thin and such theories are based primarily on conjecture. Despite the best efforts of experts and historians in investigating this complex and technical subject, a definitive explanation for the destruction of Maine remains elusive. http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq71-1.htm
What have you found out about it? I have to leave town so I won't be able to do anymore checking.
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
I should have put this info here instead of the Obama topic in Miscellaneous.
Time spent investigating steroid abuse in sports- 9 years. BALCO & Barry Bonds scandal Time spent investigating Clinton-4 years and cost $40-80 million. ($4-5 million of that spent on investigating a BJ) http://articles.cnn.com/1999-04...OLITICS http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-10...el-dash Amount of time the 9-11 Commission spent investigating - less than 2 years. Allotted budget- $15 million
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
Posted on: Oct. 04 2012,7:56 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Sep. 27 2012,11:23 am)
QUOTE
I just heard about that today. I had not known about that incident. I will be looking into it when I am able. What do you think about the USS Liberty? I know Israel usually gets full blame, but why no investigation by the US?
You answered your own question, it was Isreal, so no real investigation was needed. Our government even downplayed the incident because we didn't want to make Isreal look bad for killing a bunch of our servicemen and destroying a Naval ship. They eventually cut a check for the victims and property damage to the ship, so we let bygones be bygones and went on our path of being their favorite ally.
Much of the documents (State Dept., Navy, and intelligence cables) from that period have been declassified and are available on the NSA: public information, U.S.S. Liberty. What bothered me the most on this subject is that officials had said to downplay to the press the fact that Isreal was at fault for the attack, and killing 34 and wounding over a hundred U.S. servicemen.
In a sad irony the Americans that day were probably killed and wounded with weapons we bought and gave to Isreal. The lions share of their weapons procurement is entirely paid for by the United States. Read about this subject and then tell me how Isreal is our closest ally that must be defended (and gone to war for, again). Because Hannity, Beck, Rush, and the rest of that crowd certainly thinks we need to continually go to bat for them, regardless of how many Americans get killed as a direct or indirect result of Isreal.
As for the 9/11 stuff, I don't believe any of the theories I've heard on that. Most of the websites and videos seem like they're just throwing mud and seeing what will stick.
-------------- You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
Yeah, that's kinda what I meant about investigating the U.S.S. Liberty incident. It's quite clear that Israel new it was an American ship, and it bombed it on purpose. Survivors have been wanting answers and justice ever since. Saddest part is that hardy anybody has ever heard of this. And the survivors not allowed to even talk about it. What crap.
All the government would have to do to dispel any and all conspiracy theories is release video footage and evidence pictures. An insane number of groups/people/agencies have filed FOI's to get pictures and video, but the government refuses. Has anyone here looked at the ridiculous pictures the government has released? Not to mention that pathetic surveillance footage at the Pentagon. They confiscated video from all business any where near the Pentagon, right after it was hit. So why not release it and put doubts to rest? There are only two explanations. 1-They want conspiracy theories running rampant (for whatever reason) 2- They are lying.
Here's a few more credible people who question the story and their reasons why: Lt. Col Robert Bowman: "Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise---including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots---have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned.
They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official “investigations” have really been cover-up operations. -------------------- I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder." http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6900065571556128674 -------------------------------- Col. George Nelson: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ...
The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. ------------------------ Col. Ann Wright: "[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …
Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. ------------------- Lt. Col. Shelton Lankford: "This isn't about party, it isn't about Bush Bashing. It's about our country, our constitution, and our future. ...
Your countrymen have been murdered and the more you delve into it the more it looks as though they were murdered by our government, who used it as an excuse to murder other people thousands of miles away.
If you ridicule others who have sincere doubts and who know factual information that directly contradicts the official report and who want explanations from those who hold the keys to our government, and have motive, means, and opportunity to pull off a 9/11, but you are too lazy or fearful, or ... to check into the facts yourself, what does that make you? Scholars for 9/11 truth have developed reams of scientific data. Michael Ruppert published an exhaustive account of the case from the viewpoint of a trained investigator. David Ray Griffin provides a context for the unanswered or badly answered questions that should nag at anyone who pretends to love this country.
Are you afraid that you will learn the truth and you can't handle it? ...
Do a little research. Google is a wonderful tool. ---------------- Commander Ralph Kolstad: When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official “story”. If one were to act as an accident investigator, one would look at the evidence, and then construct a plausible scenario as to what led to the accident. In this case, we were told the story and then the evidence was built to support the story. ------------ Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.
Article 7/1/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it ‘the dog that doesn't hunt.’ ‘I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,’ he said." _
-------------- And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
My favorite 9-11 conspiracy is the one where people think a twin engine plane flew in front of a cruise missile headed for the Pentagon and knocked down the light poles that would be in the way.
They're all pretty crazy but that one is the most ridiculous I've read.
When you look at the small list of people that are suspicious/bat-sh!t crazy just remember how many people think those people are nuts.
-------------- The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
