Albert Lea Discussion Forum » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Obama 2016
started by: Blaze

Posted by Blaze on Sep. 26 2012,5:47 pm

Maybe it's already been posted, but I just learned that Fox News will be airing "Obama 2016" this Sunday night, September 30, at 8 PM.

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 26 2012,6:03 pm

Cool, I'll watch

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 28 2012,12:59 pm

Plan on going to the theatre to see it. The other guys don't always play fair.

QUOTE

LOS ANGELES, Sept. 24, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The producers of the blockbuster movie 2016: Obama's America are crying foul against what they suspect to be an organized effort to drive viewers away from the theatrical showing of the film. False internet rumors have been circulating all week, stating that Fox News Channel had scheduled a free airing of the film. No such airing was scheduled. The movie also sustained a second attack over the weekend when it was illegally uploaded to YouTube in violation of U.S. copyright laws.

"The reports of the movie appearing on Fox before the election are completely untrue and we strongly suspect that they are the result of dirty tricks by our opponents who spread this rumor in order to confuse the general public and keep them from going to their local theaters," said the film's writer/director Dinesh D'Souza."We urge all Americans to ignore these efforts and go to their local theater and enjoy the movie on the big screen."

< false rumors >

Posted by alcitizens on Sep. 28 2012,4:31 pm

Sounds like a good movie for Rosiland to watch..

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 28 2012,4:44 pm

^Sounds like amgood movie for you to watch, maybe you'll learn something.

Posted by Liberal on Sep. 28 2012,7:19 pm

QUOTE

"The reports of the movie appearing on Fox before the election are completely untrue and we strongly suspect that they are the result of dirty tricks by our opponents who spread this rumor in order to confuse the general public and keep them from going to their local theaters,"

Opponents? Why would a "documentary film maker" have "opponents?

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 28 2012,9:54 pm

^Michael Moore does.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 28 2012,10:46 pm

(alcitizens @ Sep. 28 2012,4:31 pm)

QUOTE

Sounds like a good movie for Rosiland to watch..

Does the movie explain that the President now has the power to lock up anyone and strip away all rights for as long as the president decides, without any proof of the citizen being guilty of anything, and no explanations given?

Does the movie explain how the President issued Executive Order 13603 giving the government the power to TAKE and CONTROL 1.) All food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer. 2.) all forms of energy. 3.) health resources. 4.) all forms of civil transportation. 5.) water resources. 6.) all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials. - Under both emergency and NON-emergency conditions?

Does the movie explain crackdowns on journalists and government whistle-blowers that gets worse with every administration?

Does the movie explain the Obama administrations continuation of wars started by lies?
Does the movie explain the Obama administrations continuation of hiding the truth of what happened on 9-11?

Does the movie explain how Obama expanded on Bush's warrantless wiretapping and email surveillance?

Does the movie explain how it doesn't matter which stooge a person votes for, it's just a continuance and spreading of a more oppressive and powerful government?

Does the movie explain just how goddamn stupid and lazy the majority of Americans are that would rather shove their heads up their asses and pretend nothing is happening instead of actually trying to do something to rein in the government before it's too late?

No?? No of course the propaganda movie doesn't cover ANY of those topics. It's just another hyped up distraction to make people think that voting actually matters.
Why would I want to watch it??

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 29 2012,11:10 am

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Sep. 28 2012,10:46 pm)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Sep. 28 2012,4:31 pm)

QUOTE

Sounds like a good movie for Rosiland to watch..

Yes it does.
Explains how he developed his exaggerated view of his own value and importance..egotism..
and how hes been protected to further this agenda.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 30 2012,8:18 pm

I'd like to see the proof that the current President can lock any U.S. Citizen up for no good reason...without the right to a trial...an appeal...free legal representation if they can't afford it, ect...

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 30 2012,9:05 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 30 2012,8:18 pm)

QUOTE

BusyBee, we've already discussed this in another thread in the forum. I can't remember the name of the topic but it was back in January right after he signed this. I'm too tired to do much with your question at the moment. The other one had more information. But for now:

On December 31, 2011, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), codifying indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law for the first time in American history. The NDAA’s dangerous detention provisions would authorize the president — and all future presidents — to order the military to pick up and indefinitely imprison people captured anywhere in the world, far from any battlefield.
< http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/ndaa >

It looks like there is slick little trick brewing in Congress. Supporters of locking people up without charge or trial are getting ready to play yet another trick on the American people...
That's right. The plan in the House of Representatives seems to be to try to fool Americans into thinking that they are fixing the indefinite detention problems with the NDAA and the Authorization for the Use of Military Force, when in fact, they are doing nothing good....
Here's how they hope their trick will work. H.R. 4388, which was sneakily mistitled as the "Right to Habeas Corpus Act," states that no one in the United States will lose their habeas rights under the NDAA. That might sound like something good, but it's meaningless.

The question with the NDAA was never whether habeas rights are lost. Instead, the question is whether and when any president can order the military to imprison a person without charge or trial. The NDAA did not take away habeas rights from anyone, but it did codify a dangerous indefinite detention without charge or trial scheme. And nothing in the proposed bill by Rigell would change it. The Rigell bill won't stop any president from ordering the military lockup of civilians without charge or trial.
< http://www.aclu.org/blog...-fooled >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 01 2012,6:04 am

The best place to get information about this is to read anything Chris Hedges, Daniel Ellsberg or Naomi Wolf. They are part of the group that has been suing Obama and trying to inform people on parts of the NDAA.

Here's part of an article written by Chris Hedges. It's three pages, read the whole article please. :
In January 2011 Jónsdóttir, although she is not a U.S. citizen, was served by the United States Department of Justice with a subpoena demanding information “about all [her] tweets and more since November 1st 2009.” The demanded information, which she has refused to provide, includes all mailing addresses and billing information, all connection records and session times, all IP addresses used to access Twitter, and all known email accounts, as well as the “means and source of payment,” including banking records and credit cards. The Justice Department subpoenaed records for the period from Nov. 1, 2009, to the present. The foreign minister of Iceland advised Jónsdóttir not to travel to the United States for the court hearing on Thursday, fearing she might be detained, especially after the Justice Department refused to issue a statement in writing stating that she would not be held if she appeared on American soil.
< http://www.truthdig.com/report...0120402 >

Here is Naomi Wolf's website where she transcribes what happened in the first court appearance of NDAA:
< http://naomiwolf.org/2012/03/ndaa-hearing-notes/ >

The Federal Judge who heard the case put an injunction against the part that allows for the indefinite detention against US citizens. She didn't like how the government lawyers kept their answers vague as to who they consider suspicious and wouldn't explain what they consider "giving aid and support" to terrorists. The Obama administration immediately appealed it.= And won.
You should google "NDAA indefinite detention" or any type of wording you can think of and just see what information you can find. You won't find much of anything on any main stream site. Only "conspiracy kooks" are talking about this. So now is a good time for people to start thinking for themselves.

Posted by Santorini on Oct. 01 2012,10:16 am

Never thought I would say this...
BUT, I am beginning to agree with Rosalind in some areas. Namely, we are really all just pawns in a bigger conspiracy. The economy, unemployment, etc. nothing more than a way to deflect our attention away from what is really going on.

Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 01 2012,1:14 pm

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

Santorini and a few other choice people on this site actually get it. We're paying attention to "the man behind the curtain".

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 01 2012,8:29 pm

(Santorini @ Oct. 01 2012,10:16 am)

QUOTE

Everyone in the forum would have already realized that if I was better at what I have been trying to do, and it wouldn't have taken a whole freakin year.

Things are kinda spooky once you wake up aren't they. At least in The Matrix, Neo had the choice between taking the red pill and the blue pill. I just shoved the red pill down your throats. In my defense, I tried my best to not to have to bring up the 9-11 info. I've just gotten desperate lately.

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 01 2012,9:04 pm

How does one become a conspiracy theorist? Do you conspiracy nuts think it's that you're smarter than the rest of us, or just more perceptive?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 01 2012,10:25 pm

(Liberal @ Oct. 01 2012,9:04 pm)

QUOTE

How does one become a conspiracy theorist? Do you conspiracy nuts think it's that you're smarter than the rest of us, or just more perceptive?

Why do intelligent rational people such as yourself have to resort to name calling so often? :dunno:

Does it make you feel better? Feel superior?

I can't speak for other conspiracy nuts, but I myself have never thought I am smarter than anyone else, or more perceptive. Maybe I am just less trusting of the government and media than others, and I really really don't like being lied to, so if I don't trust something I dig as much as I can to try and figure out the truth. I never believed the BS they were shoveling about 9-11, too many miraculous coincidences, and too many contradictions right from the start.
So Liberal, explain to me why we shouldn't be worried about Executive Order 13603

Sec. 201. Priorities and Allocations Authorities. (a) The authority of the
President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to
require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other
than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over perform-
ance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services,
and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national
defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:
(1) the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food re-
source facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health
resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial
fertilizer;
(2) the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;
(3) the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health
resources;
(4) the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil trans-
portation;
(5) the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and
(6) the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services,
and facilities, including construction materials.
(b) The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection
(a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations
to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures
by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense,
under BOTH EMERGENCY AND NON-EMERGENCY conditions. Each Secretary shall
authorize the heads of other agencies, as appropriate, to place priority ratings
on contracts and orders for materials, services, and facilities needed in
support of programs approved under section 202 of this order.
_
And please explain why people shouldn't be worried and upset about parts of the NDAA, when government lawyers won't even explain anything about it to a Federal Judge. And please explain why these things aren't talked about on the news. Also, could you please debunk that 9-11 video. Don't go to some 'debunking' site and copy and paste what they have to say, watch it yourself and then debunk the information. Unlike the two official "investigations" the video uses actual experts to explain things as best they can. You honestly believe the official story? The official story is kookier than most of the "conspiracy nut" stories.
Really, don't you find it strange that people are suing the President of the United States of America, and it doesn't even get on the news.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 01 2012,10:36 pm

So you also think the American Civil Liberties Union are a bunch of kooky conspiracy nuts too?

On December 31, 2011, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), codifying indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law for the first time in American history. (To learn more about the NDAA, visit < www.aclu.org/NDAA). >

The law is an historic threat because it codifies indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law for the first time in American history. It could permit the president – and all future presidents – to order the military to imprison indefinitely civilians captured far from any battlefield without charge or trial.
This kind of sweeping detention power is completely at odds with our American values, violates the Constitution, and corrodes our Nation’s commitment to the rule of law, which generations have fought to preserve.
The breadth of the NDAA’s worldwide detention authority violates the Constitution and international law because it is not limited to people captured in an actual armed conflict, as required by the laws of war.
Under the Bush administration, claims of worldwide detention authority were used to hold even a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil in military custody, and many in Congress assert that the NDAA should be used in the same way. The ACLU does not believe that the NDAA authorizes military detention of American citizens or anyone else in the United States. Any president’s claim of domestic military detention authority under the NDAA would be unconstitutional and illegal.
Nevertheless, there is substantial public debate and uncertainty around whether Sections 1021 and 1022 of the NDAA could be read even to repeal the Posse Comitatus Act and authorize indefinite military detention without charge or trial within the United States.
The law does not require even an allegation that a detained person caused any harm or threat of harm to the United States or to any U.S. interest. Mere allegation of membership in, or support of, an alleged terrorist group could be the basis for indefinite detention. Under the American justice system, we don’t just lock people up indefinitely based on suspicion.
Congress and the president should clean up the mess they created. Congress should repeal the NDAA’s detention provisions.
More than ten years after the 9/11 attacks, with the United States withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States should not be asserting new worldwide authority for the military to imprison persons seized in any country.
We have seen how disregard for the rule of law has disastrous results for America’s standing in the world. It is time for a return to the rule of law. It is time to turn that page.
< http://www.aclu.org/indefin...ion-act >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 01 2012,11:01 pm

By the way Liberal, I'm a high school drop-out, so if you can't actually answer any of my questions, feel free to call me names and make fun of my lack of education instead. There is alot in my past (and present) that is bash-worthy, but for now that's all I'm giving you.

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 01 2012,11:04 pm

I can't debunk anything a truther believes. 10's of thousands of witnesses saw the planes strike the buildings if that isn't enough to convince you then there's nothing I can say that would change your mind.

Personally I spent 3 years as an MP with the 101st Airborne Division and I got a chance to work with many different types of soldiers, and federal employees and the one thing that I learned is that most people in the government are just like you and me. They aren't a bunch of evil bastards that would fly a plane into a building killing 1000's of Americans. In fact most people in the military wouldn't fly a plane full of Arabs into a building full of Arabs, and if someone told them to do it they would go straight to the media.

QUOTE

So you also think the American Civil Liberties Union are a bunch of kooky conspiracy nuts too?

What conspiracy are you suggesting the ACLU believes?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 02 2012,10:51 am

QUOTE

10's of thousands of witnesses saw the planes strike the buildings if that isn't enough to convince you then there's nothing I can say that would change your mind.

Who is denying that planes flew into the buildings? How can you judge the validity of the information in the video if you refuse to watch it? What about the points I made in the 9-11 topic? Hundreds of people reported hearing and feeling explosions, even big mainstream reporters live on air. Why would neither official investigation check for explosives, and state on record that there was no need to test for explosives? Please watch the video.

QUOTE

They aren't a bunch of evil bastards that would fly a plane into a building killing 1000's of Americans.

They invaded countries and started wars, based on their lies. When the lies no longer worked they told even more lies. It was nothing but lies from them right from the start.
They are the reason thousands of soldiers have died, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people in those countries. Almost all of the highjackers came from Saudi Arabia. The FBI themselves even gave that info right after 9-11. Why did we attack different countries? Remember back to what a jumbled mess all of the info they kept throwing at us was? A huge chaotic web of BS that was almost impossible to keep straight.

QUOTE

What conspiracy are you suggesting the ACLU believes?

I brought up the ACLU because of the NDAA. I thought you had a problem with all of my conspiracy kook information, not just 9-11.

< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4 >

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 02 2012,12:48 pm

I've seen plenty of these crap videos and this is one of the worst. A bunch of crazy people saying that high rise buildings can't collapse from fire.

So you kooks think it's more likely that government agent secretly placed explosives in the buildings and then waited for two planes to hit the nearby buildings before detonating it?

Why do you think they waited hours to set off those explosives in building 7?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 02 2012,8:23 pm

(Liberal @ Oct. 02 2012,12:48 pm)

QUOTE

So you kooks think it's more likely that government agent secretly placed explosives in the buildings and then waited for two planes to hit the nearby buildings before detonating it?

Um no. Us kooks just don't buy the official BS story, or either of the ridiculous investigations. Nobody has a clue for sure what happened that day. The kooks just want people to realize the story the government has been shoveling is full of crap, and a new investigation needs to be done. Although since most of the physical evidence has been destroyed or disappeared, I don't think a new investigation will do a whole lot. So I guess my part of the kookery is just to try to help people realize that for whatever reason: The government is lying about what happened on 911.
Just like they lied to start occupying the Middle East. I don't believe anything they say any more.

Some of the kooks who don't believe the official story and want a new investigation: (Just a short list of a growing list)
Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD. Former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development. Former Head, Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology U.S Air Force

Lt. Col. David Gapp, Pilot and Former President of Aircraft Accident Investigation Board. U.S. Air Force.

Col. Michael Harley, Chief of Standardization, Strategic Air Command Wing and Aircraft Accident Investigator. U.S. Air Force.

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Former Political Military Affairs Officer, Office of the Secretary of Defense, Former Member of staff of the Director of the NSA, U.S. Air Force.

Col. George Nelson, Aircraft Accident Investigator and airplane parts authority U.S. Air Force

Lt. Col. Jeff Latas, Combat Fighter Pilot and Former President of Aircraft Accident Investigation Board, U.S. Air Force.

Col. Ann Wright, Officer and Former U.S. Diplomat, U.S. Army.

Ray McGovern, CIA worked for 7 different Presidents.

Max Cleland, Former U.S. Senator of Georgia, Former Secretary of State of Georgia, Administrator of the U.S. V.A. Former Captain U.S. Army. Silver and Bronze Stars for bravery in Viet Nam. Former member of the 911 Commission

General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. European Command, which included all American military activities in the 89 countries and territories of Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Additionally, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), which granted him overall command of NATO military forces in Europe 1997 - 2001. Awarded Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart for his service in Viet Nam and numerous subsequent medals and citations. Graduated valedictorian of his class at West Point.

Edward Peck– Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs, U.S. State Department. He later served as Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under President Ronald Reagan. Mr. Peck, a 32-year veteran of the U.S. Foreign Service, also served as U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission in Iraq 1977 - 1980.

Maj. John M. Newman, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Executive Assistant to the Director of the National Security Agency.

William Christison, a 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis

Melvin Goodman, PhD, Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs and Senior Analyst from 1966 - 1990. He also served as Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004.

Robert Baer A 21-year CIA veteran and specialist in the Middle East, Baer was awarded the Career Intelligence Medal upon his retirement in 1997.

David MacMichael, PhD– Former Senior Estimates Officer at the CIA with special responsibility for western hemisphere affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Prior to joining the CIA, he served as a U.S. Marine Corps officer for ten years and for four years as a counter-insurgency advisor to the government.

Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterespionage, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CA.

John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. 18-year FBI career. Mr. Cole currently works as a senior counterintelligence analyst.

Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.

Coleen Rowley– Former Special Agent and Minneapolis Division Counsel, FBI. 24-year FBI career. Agent Rowley was selected one of Time Magazine's three 2002 Persons of the Year.

Lynne Larkin was a CIA Operations Officer who served in several CIA foreign stations before being assigned to the CIA's Counter-Intelligence Center. There, she co-chaired a multi-agency task force, which, among other functions, provided direction to other federal agencies for coordinating intelligence efforts among the many intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.

Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer.

Daniel Ellsberg, PhD – Former Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense. Former State Department envoy to Viet Nam. While working for the government, Ellsberg attained the ultimate civil service grade of GS-18, equivalent to a Major General. Former U.S. Marine Corps officer. Former military analyst for the Rand Corporation. Most well known for leaking the Pentagon Papers to the New York Times in 1971.

Rep. Peter S. Espiefs, JD – Former Member, House of Representatives, State Legislature of New Hampshire 2000 - 2008. Former Member of the Judiciary Committee, the Ways and Means Committee, the Right to Know Oversight Commission, and the Medical Malpractice and Insurance Oversight Committee. Retired Attorney. Retired Probate Court Judge (20 years). Former Attorney, Office of General Counsel, U.S. Department of Agriculture. Former Instructor, Business Law and Political Science, Franklin Pierce College. Former Instructor, Business Law, Keene State College. Former Infantry Officer, U.S. Army.

Paul Craig Roberts, President Reagan appointed Dr. Roberts Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and he was confirmed in office by the U.S. Senate. From 1975 to 1978, Dr. Roberts served on the congressional staff where he drafted the Kemp-Roth bill and played a leading role in developing bipartisan support for a supply-side economic policy. After leaving the Treasury, he served as a consultant to the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Commerce.

Ferdinando Imposimato, Honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy. Former Senior Investigative Judge, Italy. Presided over several terrorism-related cases, including the kidnapping and ultimate assassination of President Aldo Moro, the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II, other political assassinations and kidnapping cases and several cases against the Mafia. Former Senator who served on the Anti-Mafia Commission in three administrations. Former legal consultant to the United Nations regarding institution of laws to control drug trafficking.

Simeon A. Sahaydachny, Attorney in New York State. Formerly Senior Legal Officer on staff of United Nations Commission on International Trade Law (UNCITRAL, Vienna, Austria, 1987 to 1996). During this period, served as secretary of various inter-governmental committees of UN General Assembly and authored working drafts of model laws, international conventions and legal guides relating to international commercial transactions adopted by Commission and recommended by UN General Assembly for use. Senior Fellow, International Law Institute (Washington).

J. Michael Springmann, was a diplomat in the State Department's Foreign Service, with postings to Germany, India, Saudi Arabia, and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research in Washington, D.C. He was the head of the U.S. consular official in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia . The published author of several articles on national security themes, Mr. Springmann is now an attorney in private practice in the Washington, D.C.area.

Andreas Von Bülow, the former Assistant German Defense Minister (the number two German defense position), former Minister of Research and Technology, and a former member of the German Parliament. He is a practicing attorney in Germany.

All of these people have made statements publicly stating they do not believe the governments version of 911 or either of the investigations. Most of these people have signed petitions asking for a new investigation.

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 02 2012,9:13 pm

QUOTE

Nobody has a clue for sure what happened that day. The kooks just want people to realize the story the government has been shoveling is full of crap, and a new investigation needs to be done.

If nobody knows what happened then how can you claim the government lied?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 02 2012,11:38 pm

(Liberal @ Oct. 02 2012,9:13 pm)

QUOTE

Nobody has a clue for sure what happened that day. The kooks just want people to realize the story the government has been shoveling is full of crap, and a new investigation needs to be done.

If nobody knows what happened then how can you claim the government lied?

9-11 Commissioners think they were lied to:
Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.
< http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...00.html >
Max Cleland: "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up."
< http://www.democracynow.org/2004/3/23/the_white_house_has_played_cover >

Meanwhile, as one of 10 commissioners serving on the independent panel created by Congress to investigate the 9/11 attacks, Cleland bemoans the administration’s “Nixonian” love of secrecy and its attempt to “slow walk” the commission into irrelevancy.
< http://www.salon.com/2003/11/22/cleland_2/ >

Tim Roemer of 911 Commission:
The panel even considered taking the matter to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe, commission member Tim Roemer said.
< http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/02/9-11panel.pentagon/index.html >
:dunno:

--------
NIST is part of The U.S. Department of Commerce.
All the people on the 911 commission are also part of the government.
Why wasn't an independent investigation done? Why so much secrecy? Why won't NIST show anyone their data for how they came up with their explanations? Why not release the information they used for their computer model explanations and let it be peer reviewed?

In my opinion, I think the biggest reason for not believing either of the investigations is that hundreds of people, police, firemen, reporters, government workers and other people who were there that day talk about explosions in all three buildings. Explosions were heard on live TV reports. But NIST said it didn't test for explosives because there was no evidence that explosives were used. - That's a crap investigation.
The 911 commission also didn't acknowledge any of the witness testimony or proof.

Liberal do you honestly not see anything wrong with any of this?

How about instead of ME having to keep telling YOU why I and so many others don't believe the story, YOU tell ME why you do believe it.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 03 2012,12:07 am

I'm sure everyone in the forum saw live footage of what happened that day. I'm sure most here saw live footage from outside of the Pentagon. Will people please try to remember back to what you saw while it was being reported. If you can remember what you saw, would you please tell it here?

Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 03 2012,5:15 pm

The Government sure likes to blow up things killing hundreds and wiping out millions in properties.. :sarcasm:

Large amounts of concrete and steel suddenly breaking will create the sound of an explosion..

New conspiracy for you Rosalind..

Government Blows Up Levee flooding New Orleans during Katrina

Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 03 2012,6:13 pm

^I guess you pick your poison. :dunce:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 03 2012,10:03 pm

(alcitizens @ Oct. 03 2012,5:15 pm)

QUOTE

Large amounts of concrete and steel suddenly breaking will create the sound of an explosion..

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me Beakman.

QUOTE

New conspiracy for you Rosalind..

QUOTE

^I guess you pick your poison. :dunce:

Why would a forum with so many open racists care about what happened in New Orleans? Probably don't even wonder why or even care that Blackwater mercenaries went in. People should care about mercenaries going in and operating in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 03 2012,10:05 pm

Time spent investigating steroid abuse in sports- 9 years. BALCO & Barry Bonds scandal
Time spent investigating Clinton-4 years and cost $40-80 million. ($4-5 million of that spent on investigating a BJ) < http://articles.cnn.com/1999-04...OLITICS >
< http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-10...el-dash >
Amount of time the 9-11 Commission spent investigating - less than 2 years. Allotted budget- $15 million

Posted by Funkadelic Zombie Hunter on Oct. 03 2012,10:43 pm

(wrapping tin foil around my helmet) standing outside my command bunker looking for black helicopters because white ones show up way too easy smoking a stogie. :rockon:

Can somebody please explain what the H@ll Blackwater mercenaries have to do with new orleans this sounds like a good'n I have to know why blackwater was in the big easy.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 03 2012,11:21 pm

(Funkadelic Zombie Hunter @ Oct. 03 2012,10:43 pm)

QUOTE

(wrapping tin foil around my helmet) standing outside my command bunker looking for black helicopters because white ones show up way too easy smoking a stogie. :rockon:

Can somebody please explain what the H@ll Blackwater mercenaries have to do with new orleans this sounds like a good'n I have to know why blackwater was in the big easy.

Welcome new member. 12 posts from you so far and most of them are rude and sarcastic. We need more rudeness in this forum.

QUOTE

Can somebody please explain what the H@ll Blackwater mercenaries have to do with new orleans this sounds like a good'n I have to know why blackwater was in the big easy.

Good question. The Army, FEMA, National Guard and all the other people down there must not have been enough? :dunno:

It doesn't bother you that Homeland Security called in Blackwater to operate in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?

Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 03 2012,11:39 pm

^Need more rudeness???Rose, now my feelings are hurt

Funk is pretty good though

Posted by Funkadelic Zombie Hunter on Oct. 04 2012,12:09 am

Well... I am subtle like napalm

BUT what is the Blackwater OP that was conducted to the best of my knowledge the N.O. COPS collected guns and the N.G. helped I guess, yes their is proof and it was illegal.

The N.G. also pulled out people too stupid to leave when leaving was good. I was in a few hurricanes and left in one when it was too late (my bad) not .gov. I was dumb for leaving late, it's not like these things sneak up on you.

Hurricanes are nothing to fool with I seen 40ft sail boats in the middle of the highway and not damaged but other areas just wiped out, just one persons observation no more no less.

The D.H.S. is NO Friend of mine nor D.O.J. but until proof is given I cannot believe in hearsay or allegations. I need facts even the most secret things cannot be kept quite forever. Don't you think their might have been a paper/e mail trail somewhere? One cannot move people or equipment in a total blackout, flight plans, fuel purchases and or food, quarters, compensation issues.

Here is your bone and I am serious...

When and where was Blackwater in N.O. and what were they doing?

(edited) I did find some stuff on "common dreams" building a progressive community hardly a creditable source.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 04 2012,1:06 am

(Self-Banished @ Oct. 03 2012,11:39 pm)

QUOTE

^Need more rudeness???Rose, now my feelings are hurt

Funk is pretty good though

Don't worry SB. You are still King.

I bow to your A-Holiness. :notworthy:

QUOTE

When and where was Blackwater in N.O. and what were they doing?

(edited) I did find some stuff on "common dreams" building a progressive community hardly a creditable source.

Rarely do I give any info that I haven't verified with any mainstream news site or government agency. Sadly, if it's not on mainstream - it didn't happen. It makes things difficult because mainstream news won't, or can't, cover some things. Too bad people trust it so much. OOPS, my bad, there goes my conspiracy kook brain again. Never mind. Our media and government are completely transparent, honest, competent, and have only love and concern for us citizens. Our mainstream media is completely trustworthy and tells us everything that is important to know.

Blackwater guys weren't the only mercenaries there.
Blackwater is not alone. As business leaders and government officials talk openly of changing the demographics of what was one of the most culturally vibrant of America's cities, mercenaries from companies like DynCorp, Intercon, American Security Group, Blackhawk, Wackenhut and an Israeli company called Instinctive Shooting International (ISI) are fanning out to guard private businesses and homes, as well as government projects and institutions. Within two weeks of the hurricane, the number of private security companies registered in Louisiana jumped from 185 to 235. Some, like Blackwater, are under federal contract. Others have been hired by the wealthy elite, like F. Patrick Quinn III, who brought in private security to guard his $3 million private estate and his luxury hotels, which are under consideration for a lucrative federal contract to house FEMA workers. ...

The men work for ISI, which describes its employees as "veterans of the Israeli special task forces from the following Israeli government bodies: Israel Defense Force (IDF), Israel National Police Counter Terrorism units, Instructors of Israel National Police Counter Terrorism units, General Security Service (GSS or 'Shin Beit'), Other restricted intelligence agencies." The company was formed in 1993. Its website profile says: "Our up-to-date services meet the challenging needs for Homeland Security preparedness and overseas combat procedures and readiness. ISI is currently an approved vendor by the US Government to supply Homeland Security services."

< http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-878822.html?pageNum=1 >

Their thinking is simple. The Iraq war won't last forever, so if the company wants to stick around, it needs an alternate business plan. Work here at home is one solution.

"From a capitalist point of view it is brilliant," said Walker. "You want to diversify your market to diversify your downside risk. But do you really want someone diversifying this service? This is hired gun service. And you are going to diversity this among the 51 jurisdictions in the U.S.? This makes me really nervous. This is not a good thing."

Providing security after national emergencies is usually a function of the National Guard and local police. And during the Katrina aftermath, the Blackwater employees were paid $950 a day, or about eight times the salary of a New Orleans police officer.
< http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14707922 >

Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 04 2012,2:56 am

^ Now I feel all warm and fuzzy.

Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 04 2012,7:35 am

With President Bush using the Katrina disaster to try to repeal Posse Comitatus (the ban on using U.S. troops in domestic law enforcement) and Blackwater and other security firms clearly initiating a push to install their paramilitaries on U.S. soil, the war is coming home in yet another ominous way. As one Blackwater mercenary said, "This is a trend. You're going to see a lot more guys like us in these situations."

< http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-878822.html?pageNum=3&tag=page >

Grinning Dragon??

Posted by Funkadelic Zombie Hunter on Oct. 04 2012,9:14 am

The N.O. cops were ineffective besides being on the take literally, now realistically somebody has to be the police when there is none so I get that and that is good point.

I don't see that as a business plan though and for arguments sake it doesn't matter to some of our sunburned in the neck area friends who they are, some will take exception to strangers "patrolling" in their backyard and more than likely the patrols will be see as a threat.

Don't you think if there was a disaster in AL or for that fact any town and contractors came armed in there would be a few raised eyebrows and maybe a few other things?

I don't see this as a bush payback to the evil military complex there are too many other things on peoples radar right now to be worried about this.

Soooo....I am #2 must work harder!! :rockon:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 04 2012,10:01 am

Ok, I think we should start a new topic. One dealing with Blackwater all by itself. Check this out:

Counts One and Two allege violations of IEEPA based upon, Academi/Blackwater’s export of Iridium Satellite phones and Crypto Satellite phones to the Sudan in November of 2005, without the authorization of the United States Secretary of the Treasury as required by law.

Counts Three through Six allege violations of the Arms Export Control Act and the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations based upon several proposed or actual transactions as follows:

-Between October 1, 2006 and November 30, 2006, Academi/Blackwater proposed to provide security services and a threat assessment, which included defense services as defined by United States law, to the Government of the Sudan, without first having obtained a license from the United States Department of State;

-Between October 1, 2006 and June 30, 2008, Academi/Blackwater provided military training related to overseas military operations to military and law enforcement personnel from Canada without first having obtained a license from the United States Department of State;

-Between January 1, 2006 and December 30, 2008, Academi/Blackwater provided technical and engineering data relating to the construction of armored personnel carriers to personnel from Sweden and Denmark without authorization from the United States Department of State as required by law;

-Between October, 2004 and March, 2006 the company exported ammunition and body armor to Iraq and Afghanistan without first obtaining a license from the United States Department of State as required by law.

Counts Seven through Twelve allege violations of various federal firearms laws as the result of the company's possession of the listed automatic weapons without registration or permission.

And finally, Counts Thirteen through Seventeen allege that the company falsely represented to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that five firearms were owned by certain individuals when the weapons had in fact been given as a gift to the King of Jordan and/or his traveling entourage in June of 2005.
< http://www.justice.gov/usao/nce/press/2012/2012-aug-07_04.html >

How the hell does a company get away with smuggling weapons into other countries, giving other countries government information for building tanks, and lie to numerous government agencies? And they only get probation and a fine? And that's public knowledge. Forgive me for slipping into conspiracy kook mode, but I can't help but wonder what hasn't been released to the public about this company.

And then there's this interview on Democracy Now. I feel like I'm reading a freaking Dan Brown novel. So far all of the crazy info I have checked from this interview is true. I'm not completely done checking everything yet.

QUOTE

Young Erik Prince interns at the George H.W. Bush White House but says it’s not conservative enough for him, so he backs Pat Buchanan’s insurgency campaign. Erik Prince converted to Catholicism, my sources tell me, because he wanted to be closer to the true tradition of the Church and to the Crusades. And then you have this individual serving in the military, leaving the Navy Seals then to start a private military training company, that once the so-called war on terror is launched by President Bush, a candidate who Erik Prince gave tremendous money to and his whole network funded — they were all Bush Pioneers — Bush then launches a war that he describes as a “crusade,” invading not one, but two Muslim countries, and putting Erik Prince and his private force of neo-crusaders at the vanguard of that occupation, guarding all of the senior people that Bush deployed in those countries to be his point men. Blackwater, effectively, under the Bush years, operated as an armed wing of the Bush administration, and now we know from employees that there, in fact, was a perception within the company that Erik Prince viewed himself as a crusader in a war against Islam.

< http://www.democracynow.org/2009...es_link >

In 2005, Pentagon Inspector General, Joseph Schmitz quit the government and went to work for Blackwater. - There's alot of info to check on with that too. I haven't found a "credible" source yet, but some are saying that Schmitz tried telling the court handling a wrongful death suit started by families of Blackwater employees killed in Fallujah, that since it happened in Afghanistan the courts have to follow Sharia Law. (Sharia Law doesn't hold companies responsible for wrongful deaths)

QUOTE

Blackwater has an airstrip and hangar filled with helicopters, a manufacturing plant for assembling armored cars, a pound filled with bomb-sniffing dogs and a lake with mock ships for training sailors. An armory is stacked to the ceiling with rifles. Throughout the place are outdoor ranges where military, intelligence and law-enforcement authorities from across the country participate in target practice. An incessant pop, pop, pop fills the air.

There's no other place quite like Blackwater, at least not in private hands.

In a decade, the company's revenue from federal government contracts has grown from less than $100,000 to almost $600 million last year. In August, the company won its biggest deal, a five-year counternarcotics training contract worth up to $15 billion shared with four other companies.
< http://seattletimes.com/html...] >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 04 2012,10:06 am

(Funkadelic Zombie Hunter @ Oct. 04 2012,9:14 am)

QUOTE

There wasn't just New Orleans police working down there at that time. There were FEMA, Army and National Guard.

If FEMA, the Army and National Guard are too inadequate for handling disasters in America... that's a problem. In my opinion more money should maybe be spent making these people more competent instead of hiring some damn mercenaries. Teach people how to do their actual jobs correctly? Or hire mercenaries?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Oct. 04 2012,12:14 pm

Ok, my second to last post had way too much info in it. So before I leave for the day I just wanted to come back and re-post only part of it.

Counts One and Two allege violations of IEEPA based upon, Academi/Blackwater’s export of Iridium Satellite phones and Crypto Satellite phones to the Sudan in November of 2005, without the authorization of the United States Secretary of the Treasury as required by law.

Counts Three through Six allege violations of the Arms Export Control Act and the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations based upon several proposed or actual transactions as follows:

-Between October 1, 2006 and November 30, 2006, Academi/Blackwater proposed to provide security services and a threat assessment, which included defense services as defined by United States law, to the Government of the Sudan, without first having obtained a license from the United States Department of State;

-Between October 1, 2006 and June 30, 2008, Academi/Blackwater provided military training related to overseas military operations to military and law enforcement personnel from Canada without first having obtained a license from the United States Department of State;

-Between January 1, 2006 and December 30, 2008, Academi/Blackwater provided technical and engineering data relating to the construction of armored personnel carriers to personnel from Sweden and Denmark without authorization from the United States Department of State as required by law;

-Between October, 2004 and March, 2006 the company exported ammunition and body armor to Iraq and Afghanistan without first obtaining a license from the United States Department of State as required by law.

Counts Seven through Twelve allege violations of various federal firearms laws as the result of the company's possession of the listed automatic weapons without registration or permission.

And finally, Counts Thirteen through Seventeen allege that the company falsely represented to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that five firearms were owned by certain individuals when the weapons had in fact been given as a gift to the King of Jordan and/or his traveling entourage in June of 2005.
< http://www.justice.gov/usao/nce/press/2012/2012-aug-07_04.html >

How the hell does a company get away with smuggling weapons into other countries, giving other countries government information for building tanks, and lie to numerous government agencies? And they only get probation and a fine? And that's public knowledge. Forgive me for slipping into conspiracy kook mode, but I can't help but wonder what hasn't been released to the public about this company.