Topic: I35 growth Corridor
started by: Nose for News
Posted by Nose for News on Mar. 25 2004,9:22 am
The Barrel Makers Need to ChangePrivate enterprise knows more than local groups like Desperashun (spelling?) Albert Lea who convinced the commissioners and downtown merchants that if the courthouse stayed where it was it would revive downtown.
Look where the new growth is . Its out by I35, why because of the 35,000 cars a day going by. That's why Wal-Mart went and so will the others on Wal-Marts coattails.
Now has the city council has convinced itself that they are city planners and they will develop the Farmland site? I hope they can do better than Bob Graham (official city planner) who allowed tins sheds on the edge of fountain lake created the wonderful Bridge, Fountain, Clark, Main intersection and who has been known to read his off the wall poetry at official meetings when he has a captive audience that cannot leave.
I feel sorry for downtown merchants and mall merchants who were sucked into flawed thinking of the new school, courthouse, a clean lake, higher sales tax and a historical district will revive downtown and their malls. They will now pay higher taxes only to see their customers flock to the I35 corridor.
Instead of the city condemning developers and new business for wanting to locate in certain area's they need to listen to private enterprise not the entrenched city staff.
The barrel makers and buggy wheel makers of 100 years ago either adapted and changed product or went broke. Our local government has no incentive to change and be innovative with total job security like the city planner above. Maybe the new city manager can shake up our local Barrel Makers!
Posted by MrTarzan on Mar. 25 2004,6:23 pm
Good Luck to her. SALUTE!
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 25 2004,11:36 pm
My biggest question is what are the city managers thinking?
When I first moved here I was told they wanted this community to be a "retirement community" but then they go and buildd a new high school. How many 60 yr olds on up have freakin teenagers!!! They have turned down so many opportunites its insanity!! This town could be unbelievably wealthy if we could get some real brains on the board. Look ast Rochester for example, that town is booming. Let's kidnap some of their city managers for awhile!!
Posted by minnow on Mar. 26 2004,12:11 am
Why should we listen to an admitted drug addict? 
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 26 2004,12:39 pm
I was wondering why people listen to you?? I have never done drugs in my life show me where I admitted to doing them? Otherwise stay out of this post cause you have nothing positive to add to it.
Posted by Truth on Mar. 26 2004,6:27 pm
Minnow do you have anything constructive to offer here?Really! Do you? I want a damn answer this time, not more crap.
Answer the question or split.
There is absolutely no reason other that poor planning why this city could not be as well developed as cities like Rochester.
Although Albert Lea was a center of development in the previous centuries, it's location does hinder continued growth to some extent. Our city lays in a line that is more consistent with traffic flow from the north to the south and west. Cities to the east, even without the junction of two major interstate trunk highways, are geographically located to better support industries with ties to the east.
The South Minnesota region is geographicly closer to the industries of the Fox River Valley and the Great Lakes not the Plains States or the West. Due to that location we will never effectively draw industries to this area when they are shipping products between the afore mentioned industrial giants and the Twin Cities.
The railroad situation here illustrates that fact perfectly. Albert Lea grew in large part because of its location in conection with the importance of Kansas City and gateway cites like St. Louis. The railroads built through this area and several junctions were constructed as the railroads vied for the most direct routes between Minneapolis/St. Paul and those gateways.
However, as trucking began to take away from the profit of less than car load shipments and the construction of the interstate highway system gave truck traffic rapid, reliable routes connecting those same cities, the railroads began their processes of evolution. The evolution included large mergers and the subsequent abandonment of redondant and unprofitable lines. While St. Louis and Kansas City are still extremely important to the countries industrial base our location left us as little more than a crew change point on the routes that railroads took to serve those cites. We see a fair amount of trucks laying over in Albert Lea but, I don't see that as anything to build hope upon. Our location, as I said before, is far closer to the Upper Midwestern and Eastern production zones, however, we do not lay on a convenient route between those areas. So like the railroads saw us decades ago so do corporate developers; a way point too distant from anything of much importance.
With that said, I think that good planning and with extremely talented sales people at the helm (not to mention cleaning up the town) the location of the I-35/I-90 junction could be exploited to attract some industry to our city/county. We may never see the gains that grew Rochester and the cities of central Wisconsin but, we could do much better than our past record indicates.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 26 2004,8:14 pm
Truth--I respectfully disagree with some of your assertions--question the meaning of some, and agree with others.| Quote |
| The railroad situation here illustrates that fact perfectly. Albert Lea grew in large part because of its location in conection with the importance of Kansas City and gateway cites like St. Louis. The railroads built through this area and several junctions were constructed as the railroads vied for the most direct routes between Minneapolis/St. Paul and those gateways. |
| Quote |
| Our city lays in a line that is more consistent with traffic flow from the north to the south and west. |
| Quote |
| Our location, as I said before, is far closer to the Upper Midwestern and Eastern production zones, however, we do not lay on a convenient route between those areas. |
| Quote |
| Our location, as I said before, is far closer to the Upper Midwestern and Eastern production zones, however, we do not lay on a convenient route between those areas. So like the railroads saw us decades ago so do corporate developers; a way point too distant from anything of much importance. |
The "junction of two interstates" hasn't done a thing for Albert Lea, or Austin, or Clarks Grove, or any other city within a 50 mile radius since the Interstates were built. Waseca isn't even on ANY Interstate, and THEY seem to be doing OK. New Ulm, Mankato, Dodge Center aren't on any Interstate, and THEY seem to be doing OK. Is location important? St. Cloud and Sioux Falls are FARTHER from any production or consumption area--and THEY seem to be doing fine. The point is, short of being located on a two-lane road in central Montana--transportation is irrelevant. Even the biggest export of the County--ag products, find easy access to roads, railroads, and ports.
Like so much of America, our area doesn't produce many durable goods--manufactured items--items that add value to an existing product--and consequently, if a company is located reasonably close to transportation, it makes no difference. I agree that the right people make all the difference in the world--but I also maintain that growth must come from within. The Waseca--Owatonna model of growth is closer to reality.
Posted by Truth on Mar. 26 2004,8:52 pm
We had and still have better connections North and South. The CRI&P Spine Line was purchased by the Chicago & Northwestern, which is now part of Union Pacific. This line is a very heavy and well maintained line connecting South St. Paul (and the Twin Cities area) to Kansas City. In addition, the connection between the old C&NW double track Chicago Freemont corridor and the Spine Line at Nevada, IA provides a connection to the UP transcontinental line at Omaha. That system (now all under UP ownership) makes Albert Lea a small town between large production/consumer regions to our north and to our south. Albert Lea is connected best north and south. In the past the east/west line that passed through Albert Lea was a secondary line of the CMSt.P&P (Milwaukee Road) not a main line. The other east/west lines in our area were even lessor secondary lines that existed as grain collection lines not heavy direct route main lines.However, the point remains, with no concentration of online industry, Albert Lea is simply a point along the line, not a terminus.
"The South Minnesota region is geographicly closer to the industries of the Fox River Valley and the Great Lakes not the Plains States or the West. Due to that location we will never effectively draw industries to this area when they are shipping products between the afore mentioned industrial giants and the Twin Cities." (me, 2004)
There you go. This is one of the reasons given by Ford for not building here last year. Draw straight lines between the Twin Cities metro area and the Fox River Valley at any point as well as Chicago. We (Albert Lea) will not be on any of those lines). Location is everything in transportation of durable goods. It's to late to invent the wheel. The large industries and the infrastructure to support them are already in place.
From this point on our ability to attract large companies that will employ skilled labor is going to be very difficult and will depend more on factors other than location, a supreme disadvantage for us. So, you can see, your point that the interstate highway jct. is not as important is proven by Albert Lea's lack of sound economic growth.
What's going on in Dodge Center? Since the CGW was abandoned I haven't seen much happening there.
Waseca has several viable production industries, buut they too will never become a metropolis.
That brings me to another point. Why do we need stellar growth. I know we need more but, I think its all right to be of moderate size. Bigger than we are but, I don't want to live in a sprawling mess.
Your thoughts?
Posted by The Advocate on Mar. 26 2004,9:43 pm
Owatonna has 3 new companies: The Coca Cola warehouse and two Business Incubator entities that are going out on their own. In The Owatonna Peoples Press article of March 25th, 2004, there was mentioning of some downward economic indicators in Owatonna such as the Mustang plant closing. However, they appear to have rebounded in a big way. Their economic development has embraced a new model and they indeed will flourish. Brad Ahrends has mentioned that systems problems are the cause for our economic slump here and yet no changes were really made with the recent restructuring. Why on Gods' green earth do these people here not look to successful economic cities and see what they are doing.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 27 2004,11:51 am
To Quote the Dell Commercial " Your Not The Boss Of Me" Attitude is alive and well. 
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 27 2004,12:24 pm
Because we are not direct route for much we need to somehow become the middle man in projects, or something like that. I don't know just a thought.
I'm gonna think more...boy the wheels are already grinding can anyone smell that?? I'm just mess'n?!
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 27 2004,1:08 pm
| Quote |
| To Quote the Dell Commercial " Your Not The Boss Of Me" Attitude is alive and well. |
I've even tried looking it up on the net, without results.
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 27 2004,1:35 pm
I heard it on a Friends episode.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 27 2004,1:46 pm
I still don't agree that not being on a direct line between any two assumed points precludes industrial development. Daisy Duke had it right--if we aren't east and aren't west--we must be in the middle of somewhere! Being ON a main rail line or truck route is of little or no importance--PROXIMITY is of SOME importance. As previously mentioned, even our major export from the County--agricultural products--are within 1 days trucking of major rail hubs and the Port of Duluth. Sioux Falls and St. Cloud are even FARTHER from major rail terminals or Ports, and it hasn't hurt them.
Proximity to major AIR HUBS is important for "just-in-time" deliveries--Cities like Louisville and Memphis have attracted major plants and warehouses because of their proximity to UPS and FEDEX hubs. Albert Lea used to have flights out of here for UPS--but they reconfigured their schedule into Minneapolis, and are now able to drive it up. If you ship by 6 p.m., you can still make overnight delivery--so from that standpoint, we have just as good air schedule as Minneapolis--not true in the days of steam trains. The only time Minneapolis would have an advantage is if it were important enough to ship "counter-to-counter"--buying a seat on a regularly scheduled flight for same day service. The proximity to a seaport, like Duluth, is important if shipping bulky or large shipments--again, we are less than a day's trucking from Duluth.
Don't think of being on a line from Minnepolis to Omaha--with globalization--China is able to compete with manufactured goods as cheap (not value-added) as textiles and tennis shoes, and Brazil--not on the way to ANYWHERE--is able to compete in items as bulky and low-cost as grain. Patagonian Beef--from the "uttermost end of the world"--is sold worldwide.
Advocate makes mention of the new economic model. Without seeing their business plan, but with some knowledge of Owatonna politics--it seems to be to GROW FROM WITHIN. Several examples:
The INCUBATOR BUILDING has been a real success story there. Many of these companies consciously strive to bring INTO the community goods or services that had previously been OUTSOURCED by businesses in the community.
One of the best examples of industrial development was Ted Ringhoffer. Ted died several years ago, but his efforts are still being felt. Ted was tireless, perhaps buoyed by the fact that he would "go to coffee" 5 or 6 different places every morning--keeping his ear to the ground for problems and opportunities. If he heard of impending layoffs at one company, he might use that as an opportunity to make it better--for example--paint shop outsourcing at Mustang led to creation of a larger paint shop (and more jobs) at Wenger. Ted would also go from business to business, asking each one "what would it take to add one more (or 5 more) jobs in your business? Sometimes, he could be of help. When was the last time that anyone from the (multiple) development agencies in Freeborn County made those kinds of calls? One hundred extra jobs a year for 10 years would FAR EXCEED the efforts to "lure" a major manufacturer to the local area during the LAST 10 years.
Finally--Truth--I totally agree that moderate growth is better that explosive growth. I lived in Houston during the oil boom--and part of the subsequent bust. As a pilot, I visit a lot of metro areas--all over the continent--and I'm always glad to get back here. I've turned down a lot of offers to fly out of Minnepolis. Most of my family lives there--I tell them that's no way to live. I choose to live here.
Posted by Truth on Mar. 27 2004,2:01 pm
Absolutely, growth from within could work here. It would require alot of effort from some very dedicated individuals. My point is just that. Our growth will never hinge on outside corporations developing facilities here. We don't offer a good location.I do not see the addition of more unskilled labor industries as a good prospect though. Sustained and substantial growth will require more than a Fed Ex or UPS. Those are terrific companies but, something like major manufacturing equipment or a large computer component manufacturer would more desirable.
Ford did not come here as was the case with many other major companies. There are so many factors at work here. I simply pointed out that our location is not ideal. I see it as ahurdle not an end all problem.
Another major factor is our image and curb apppeal. Bad situation here.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 27 2004,2:30 pm
It sounds like we agree that growth will not come from outside corporations--unless it is businesses that locate here to serve a (hopefully) increasing population--food outlets, stores, etc.The strip Mall is a good sign--if the potential players are as Maddog posted, that is a mix of new stores and some existing ones. If it extracts new money from the Interstates--that's a good sign. If it extracts money from existing business in town, that's a "zero-sum" game--no net increase.
A specialty distribution center like Ford would have to be located somewhat centrally in its market area. Do you suppose anyone ever followed up on those 62 presentations to find out WHY they didn't locate here? We can't fix a problem by ignoring it--putting on a happy face won't mask an underlying problem.
I don't think the chances are good of "luring" any major manufacturer to the area. Most towns our size have an industrial promoter on the payroll--and all are vying for manufacturing jobs--but most of those jobs are not high-paying jobs, and in this day and age, even "high-tech" jobs like computer manufacturing have a short lifespan due to foreign competition, industry consolodation, and technological obsolescence. NAME ALL OF THE MAJOR MANUFACTURING PLANTS THAT HAVE BEEN "LURED" TO ANY OUTSTATE MINNESOTA CITY IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. Major plant--lets say, 300 or more jobs. Can't name any? How about 200? 100? I can't think of any--though there may be one.
The major change I'd like to see for local area promotion is to TRY promoting from within. Nearly every employee from within every company has an idea for a new product or service. Nearly every company has something that they buy or outsource to another community. The EASIEST sale is to STOP sending work out of our community, and bring it back. Nearly ANY company can add an employee if the conditions are right--the job of an industrial promoter should be to help meet those conditions. (If a company CAN'T add an employee, or is about to start laying off employee's, THAT is the concern of an industrial promoter as well).
"Image and curb appeal". Specifics? What would you do?
I don't mean for this to be just Truth and me--I'd like to hear from a [i]number of people on their opinion on Industrial Development--perhaps the most all-pervasive subject on the board.[/i] Ideas?
Posted by Nose for News on Mar. 27 2004,4:04 pm
Growing our own?/ We can't keep what we had !Since businesses can now be located anywhere with high tech maybe we should get Enderes corporate offices back to Albert Lea.
I believe the owner was/is on the Greater Jobs Board.
Do you think it's difficult to tell other companies to locate here when it wasn't good enough to keep your own headquarters here?
Heck we now have a new school and our hockey and wrestling program have improved. Please give Pam and Paul a call we'll put you in a JOBZ.
Enderes Tool Company, Inc.
14925 Energy Way
Apple Valley, MN 55124
The Tribune's colorful salute to Christmas
By Ed Shannon, Tribune feature writer Dec 24 2002
Just prior to 1916, Ernst Enderes was a German immigrant who started a blacksmith shop in Littleport, Iowa, (This tiny town is located somewhat between Elkader and Guttenberg in Clayton County.) Enderes started to make tools and one of his area dealers was the Albert Lea Machinery Co. And it was this firm which persuaded the Iowa blacksmith and toolmaker to expand, relocate, and build a new factory in Albert Lea.
Thank you Albert Lea Machinery Co.
I understand moves sometimes are necessary to stay in business, but the Owatonna Companies believe in and reinvest in the community that gave them their success.
Do our business leaders show that quality?
And if they don't why would they want to be on boards that promote jobs when they moved jobs out?
Posted by minnow on Mar. 27 2004,4:27 pm
Doesn't Paul Sparks think that 26 years is enough?
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 28 2004,12:55 am
Apparently Paul Sparks supports himself cause the people who put up the billboard sign are remaining anonymous. I guess I would too if I was that big of an idiot!!!
Posted by minnow on Mar. 28 2004,2:01 pm
I'm going to rent the billboards next month. My message will be sweet and simple. "Doesn't Paul Sparks think 26 years is enough?"Seriously though, we have violation here. It's against the law to give out gifts to public officials and those arse kissing billboards are definatly a gift... to Sparks ego. LOL
Posted by Truth on Mar. 28 2004,4:51 pm
You can't invent the wheel, that's already been done. The large corporations that could boost our economy are already located where they need to be. We are not in a god area for that. That's my point. The end. There is no more.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 28 2004,6:53 pm
| Quote |
| The large corporations that could boost our economy are already located where they need to be |
It would appear that all that is LEFT to us is to grow from within.. Ideas on how we can accomplish that? "Anybody? Bueller? Anybody?"
Deb Irmen, Trib. editor, made mention of the fact that at Fergus Falls, they lost a major employer in town--a parallel with our loss of the packing plant. She said they went on a program to develop "500 jobs in 500 days"--and "substantially accomplished their goal". I'd like to hear more about how it was accomplished.| Quote |
| Image and Curb appeal |
Posted by Truth on Mar. 28 2004,7:19 pm
Agreed.May be we need to improve the water quality to improve the potential for growth. I don't know I need to think.
Posted by minnow on Mar. 29 2004,12:43 am
Hang it up Lies. Your IQ is barely average. 
Stick to kicking teenagers out of downtown parking lots and leave the real issues to men and woman with heads on their shoulders. Jim's out of your league.
Posted by Madd Max on Mar. 29 2004,9:05 am
| Quote (jimhanson @ Mar. 28 2004,6:53:pm) |
| [ at Fergus Falls, they lost a major employer in town--a parallel with our loss of the packing plant. She said they went on a program to develop "500 jobs in 500 days"--and "substantially accomplished their goal". |
I would like to hear more about how it was accomplished to.
Posted by Frustrated on Mar. 29 2004,10:57 am
Formula for economic development - Lets start a list of major objectives and perhaps some ideas will surface on how to achieve them:1. Lower taxes - Start with not building a new library!
2. Improve Lakes
3. Increase traffic from the interstate highways
4. Get a quality college or tech school.
5. Dedicated and results orientated city economic development effort
Posted by Nimble on Mar. 29 2004,1:37 pm
What about finding out what kind of expertise you have in the community or a need in the marketplace. And then perhaps build on that. Such as is there a bussiness in the area that could go alot further if they had the financial backing of a whole community behind it. ie. MCB seems to be a home grown bussiness that does ok. just a thought.
Posted by minnow on Mar. 29 2004,2:02 pm
Let's contrive a "community fund" or foundation. We will enlist Mr. paul Sparks among others, to actively seek out federal money to loan to it. We will book loan money as income and distribute it equally to members. In order to make it kosher, we'll pay members for services rendered to the foundation. Our foundation will improve the area parks and what not...you know just token stuff for appearances. We could do several million the first year with a little Paul prodding...
Posted by Truth on Mar. 29 2004,6:08 pm
Minnow I'm going to refer to you as Fletcher. It suits you splendidly. Also, in so far as IQ is concerned I would challenge you to a test anytime. I do not like to toot my own horn, but, that is an area I have always had top 2% results on multiple tests of differing evaluation criteria.
Step up brainiac. LOL
Posted by minnow on Mar. 29 2004,6:20 pm
If you're so smart...why aren't you rich? 
You've proven time and time again how difficult it is for you to find a clue. Can't you buy one, steal one, rent one...anything?
Posted by Frustrated on Mar. 30 2004,10:21 am
I ain't rich, but I sure is smart 
Posted by Truth on Mar. 30 2004,5:59 pm
If I had been born rich instead of good looking, I would have ridden more ferraris and a little less tail.
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 30 2004,10:45 pm
We need a gymnastics gym in this town. Start a gymnastics club and have meets here. That will draw many hundreds of dollars. The closet teams otherwise are only Austin and New Richland which are just high school. Owatonna is the closet gymnastics gym and club. Gymnastics is an expesive sport and the people usually invovled are willing to spend lots to keep it going and running. To compete with the other gyms in the area like Rochester and the cities could bring some great money to town. On a days of multiple meets (when you compete against many teams at once) like regions, state or nationals. IF they come from up north they need a place to stay, places to eat and shop. These are usually weekend excursions. It could bring money to this area and maybe put us on the map !!
I know I did it for 18 years. God I miss it, help, I need my gym. Any ideas on how to get it going?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 31 2004,3:17 pm
Another it takes money to make money idea. I guess you need to approach a business in need of a tax write off to support it. Anyone out there with money to burn?
Posted by minnow on Mar. 31 2004,4:02 pm
Worth every penny too, because rich guys wanna marry gymnast girls.Whatever your sport...any sport is good to get you moving.
Only one problem. Very few poor, midwestern women folk have money to burn for that, let alone weekly Walmart reciepts...LOL
How many people enrolled would it take to make it worth the while? How much would they have to spend?
Sounds like the only way it'd happen in these backwoods is one way. Some crusty pervert wants to watch young girls train in leotards or something.
I didn't just get off the banana boat. I've been living with these small town freaks for a long time...
Posted by Jesus Juice on Mar. 31 2004,5:26 pm
funny post minnow but your logic is accurate.Albert Lea is a poor meat packing town, until that changes don't expect any fancy gymnastics center, Red Lobster or Best Buy. There is little to no disposable income in the area.
Isn't Wallyworld the biggest employer in town? That says it all right there.
Why are Mankato & Rochester (maybe even Owatonna) growing by leaps and bounds? It all starts and ends with good jobs.
They have them, Albert Lea does not. Until that changes, Albert Lea will keep going the direction it is going.
Posted by Daisy Duke on Mar. 31 2004,7:54 pm
A gymnastics gym isn't only for adults you actually have to start at a young age. I started when I was three.You need at least 7 to 10 gymnasts to start a team but you will also want at least 5 for back up or if one gymnast isn;t good on one event and someone else is they will compete instead of the other. You can many many people in gymnastics.
When I was in it varying on how much I went it cost between $80 to $120 a month. The rates are based on skill level and how much time they want to spend practicing and how successful they want to be! Anybody can make it to the Nat'l level or beyond just depends on your dedication to the sport!
I know there are many families that drive to Owatonna two, three or more times a week to take their children to class for a couple of hours. That is wasted money in Owatonna and on gas and if the families eat up there or even go shopping at Target while their child is practicing. See lots of money that could remain in our community.
Anyone know any perverts.............or rich old guys?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 01 2004,10:54 am
HOW ABOUT RICH OLD PERVERTS, MAL YOU READING THIS
Posted by Daisy Duke on Apr. 01 2004,11:34 pm
Kay
Posted by rosebudinal on Apr. 06 2004,1:41 am
They used to have a gymnastics program here, but ended it quite a few years ago. Stated that the insurance rates were too high. At the time, I had the option of going to Austin. Don't know if they still have gymnastics program available.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 06 2004,12:43 pm
They quit grandfather's fest due to insurance rates. Gymnastics unbelievable.