Forum: Opinion
Topic: What's with th fear of hobby drones, quad & planes
started by: Liberal

Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,10:44 am
What's with the irrational fears over hobby grade quad copters/drones? I'm just finishing my first build and it's 450mm quad with close to 4 lbs of lift. The thing is quiet but not so quiet that you wouldn't hear one hovering outside a window

I plan to mount 2 cameras. A go Pro on a gimble up front and a small FpV flight camera next to it with GPS and a heads up display. Both will be transmitted to a 5.6 ghz video receiver on the ground that will most likely record any shooting down. And the cost of the quad would make it a felony on MN, also the FAA recently classified them as aircraft so shooting one down could result in federal felony charges.

Besides if you're worried about creeps looking in your Windows I'd be more concerned with that crazy $600 camera that can zoom in on moon.

< https://youtu.be/sE_KYAfc-hg >

This is my quad. It's pretty large and makes plenty of noise so there's nothing stealthy about it.

Posted by Common Citizen on Jul. 09 2015,10:51 am
Just warn me before hovering silently outside my windows.  I'll be sure to give you a good show. :rofl:
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,11:05 am
QUOTE

The thing is quiet but not so quiet that you wouldn't hear one hovering outside a window

you'd hear it unless you had some really thick windows. The motors are pretty quiet but once its in the air those props make some serious noise, and the more weight the louder they get.

Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,11:12 am
When its under power it sounds about like 4 electric weed eaters running, its pretty hard to miss that. But that camera zoom  is crazy, but still super cool. Makes me want to sell my Canon EOS and get one of those beasts for nature shots.

And normally Im not concerned about privacy but that camera is going to be getting some crazy paparazzi shots.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,12:27 pm
Cool. Looks expensive

Fly it around my house and we'll test the felony thing :rockon:

Posted by twingroves on Jul. 09 2015,12:51 pm
that goes for my house too :finger:
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,1:18 pm
^^ please don't "help"
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,2:10 pm
There's no testing the felony thing. Google it. As far as the US Supreme court is concerned you have no property rights over 100ft and the FAA doesn't allow them over 500ft so those 400 ft above your property are legal for me to fly anytime I want .  The exception is no fly zones like around airport.

And the cameras don't save locally they use a 5.6ghz signal to transmit to VR goggles and a dvr on the ground.

Best part is restitution where you get to buy me a brand new quad. And did I mention convicted felons can't vote. That's a big win for all of us.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,2:22 pm
As long as it's out of the reach of my garden hose or  :D a waded up t-shirt we're fine.
But if you habitually fly around someone's property you might get introduced to MN anti stalking laws.

For the most part I hope you have a blast with your toy,maybe even figure a way to make some cash with it.

Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 09 2015,4:15 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jul. 09 2015,12:27 pm)
QUOTE
Fly it around my house and we'll test the felony thing :rockon:

They're still sorting out laws on drones, but at present taking one down with Ack ack could get you.  Be sure to wear a hoodie.  Hate to see signs stapled to the telephone pole down by the Tribune.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,5:17 pm
Yeah, they do go missing from time to time. Usually they take off before having a solid GPS lock, then If they lose signal they return to where ever the GPS was last fixed. There's quite a few flyaways on YouTube.
Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,5:21 pm
I've heard there's some program to have one (this is probably the best word for it) heel? Follow you around, filming even?

I don't hate the things I just know there'll be some a-holes that push the limits.

Actually, I think they're pretty cool :thumbsup:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,5:26 pm
GPS lock? Do they work like a trolling motor? An IPilot or an Xi5?
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,5:55 pm
Yeah, I think you're talking about  a kickstarter campaign for one that's being developed.  You can take it out of your backpack and toss it in the air and the arms come out and it follows you as long as you're wearing a special wristband. It also goes into slow motion and quadruples the frame rate if it detects you getting air.

I don't know how good it works now but in a couple years it's going to be awesome.

Check out youbtube for FPV quads and planes, in Europe they get away without a license for long range flying, in the states you have to get a ham radio license. There's also some hilarious crashes.

You're right about people screwing it up, like the secret service agent that flew a GPS guided Beebop drone into Whitehouse property. That's a gps quad that has flight software that should land it before entering restricted airspace, so he had to have disabled the GPS to get it on the whitehouse lawn.

I figured we'd see a boatload of regulations after that kid in the  NYC park took the top of his head off  with an RC helicopter. That had to have traumatized some people. But my guess is it will be the pervert voyeurs that will be the ones that screw it up for everyone.

Yes, they're some software apps for them that you can map your entire path and make sure the camera is pointed where you want it. You don't even have to know how to fly one, just put in coordinates and push a button. Of course they're several thousand dollars for an entry level one.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jul. 09 2015,6:02 pm
It's the same with the trolling motors, they learn routes then repeat, ties in with the depth finder, ain't GPS something? :D

A kid lost his head from a RC chopper?

Miniature version of Vic Marrow?

< http://youtu.be/djVBzrucNLY >

Ouch!

Posted by Liberal on Jul. 09 2015,6:18 pm
Yeah, they make some larger metal bladed ones and I guess it was a lot like Vic Morrow's demise, sounded like it sort of stalled sideways and the prop dipped right into his head. I actually think the big ones are too dangerous and should require some serious licensing, same as the heavy lifters.

Another thing that angers me is seeing morons fly them over crowded beaches, concerts, and other stupid places. Last week I picked mine up without putting it in safe mode and it got me 4 times in my arm before the blade broke. It was probably at about 10% or15% and I was actually surprised I didnt have to get the deepest one sutured.

Posted by hymiebravo on Jul. 10 2015,7:05 pm
The South Park "Drones" episode was rather humorous.

Or so I've been told. *cough cough  :laugh:

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 04 2015,12:46 pm
< http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...a034e31 >

Another moron arrested for shooting a drone, if he thought the guy was being a pervert then he should have called the police.

And Chuck Schumer is a moron, adding GPS to hobby quads isn't cheap. I could probably add it to my quad for about $100 but I'd have to pretty much rebuild my quad with a flight controller that needs a laptop. And the GPS drones seem to develop a mind of their own at times. I just watched a youtube video where a GPS enabled quad traveled across a 4 lane road and into a golf course.  It circled a tree then flew itself into another tree, imagine that beast dropping on you from 300ft up, or just hitting you with those blades.

Also if you're flying a GPS equipped quad out of eyesight you're breaking the law, and if you're flying within 5 miles of a commercial airport you're breaking the law and should be charged. I can guarantee you if the FAA would get off their lazy asses and charge some hobbiest and seize  their gear as evidence  you won't see morons breaking the laws that are already in place.

Also I'm a little concerned about the weight they can carry and terrorists,  you could probably carry 10lbs of flammable liquid on a $300 homemade quadcopter and flying that into a plane or into a packed sporting event could kill or injure 100s of people.

Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 04 2015,3:38 pm
^^^ there was a drone incident this week at MSP airport plus there's been a bunch down in Chicago :(
Posted by grassman on Aug. 04 2015,4:23 pm
Catch them and throw their ass in prison.
Posted by hymiebravo on Aug. 04 2015,10:37 pm
Here is some interesting footage of an abandoned mall, taken with a Tricopter -

< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjh4N204Vuw >

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 04 2015,11:39 pm
Personally I enjoy flying low and fast like that, once a quad gets up a couple hundred feet you can barely see them and the wind is unpredictable. It's probably more expensive to fly low and fast but I buy a lot of cheap quads, and extra parts.

I should be getting this one delivered in the next day or two.  It's coming from everbuying.net in China and it cost less than $25 shipped. I expect it to last a couple days at most before I hit a tree or the ground.

< https://youtu.be/lKqmqQ4TEgI >

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 05 2015,8:37 am
He shot the thing out of the sky with a shotgun.  What's the effective range of a 12 gauge with a full choke shooting birdshot?

It doesn't say how high it was, but obviously flew high enough to get over this neighbors privacy fence.  Shooting at a flying object above the treetops does take a good shot.

What would most of your responses be if your 16 year old daughter was laying out by your pool and a drone with a camera attached to it was hovering over her?  :popcorn:

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 05 2015,10:46 am
Yeah, you got it all figured out, must have just been stupid cops arresting him for no reason. You should see if you can get yourself a job as a cop. At least you'd know a lot about the car you'd be driving.

And if a perv was spying on my girls in swimsuit, I wouldn't think anything different than when people like you hang out at pools and waterparksnp to check out girls in swimwear.

Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 05 2015,5:06 pm

(Liberal @ Aug. 05 2015,10:46 am)
QUOTE
Yeah, you got it all figured out, must have just been stupid cops arresting him for no reason. You should see if you can get yourself a job as a cop. At least you'd know a lot about the car you'd be driving.

I tell you, it's heart warming to see you two post, I feel all warm and fuzzy. :)


This is from G-mans personal collection :;):

Posted by grassman on Aug. 05 2015,8:28 pm
Why you dirty.... :laugh:
Posted by grassman on Aug. 05 2015,8:31 pm
Now say you are sorry or I will have her painted on the doors of your truck! :rofl:
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 06 2015,4:24 am
^^^sorry, sorry, sorry, geez, that's cruel making threats like that :(
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 19 2015,7:17 pm
The drone pilot released his flight data and despite what our resident shotgun expert claims the quadcopter was at 200ft and not above the kook's  property when he shot it down. So it looks like he will not only face charges but he's going to pay restitution to the quad owner. Hopefully he'll be convicted of a felony and lose his right to vote for a couple years.

I bought a new tricopter frame last weekend and after I build it my first stop is going to be across the road from Maddog's basement with a go pro. See if I can't get another picture of him and his "girlfriend".

Posted by hymiebravo on Aug. 19 2015,8:15 pm
sb is going to be jealous.
Posted by hymiebravo on Aug. 19 2015,8:48 pm

(Liberal @ Aug. 05 2015,10:46 am)
QUOTE
Yeah, you got it all figured out, must have just been stupid cops arresting him for no reason. You should see if you can get yourself a job as a cop. At least you'd know a lot about the car you'd be driving.

And if a perv was spying on my girls in swimsuit, I wouldn't think anything different than when people like you hang out at pools and waterparksnp to check out girls in swimwear.

With his Lynyrd Skynyrd rebel flag tee shirt on.   :laugh:
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 19 2015,9:51 pm
As far as the 200ft shotgun theory, let's test it out. I'll load my 12 gauge with rock salt and he can stand 200ft away. We'll see if the rock salt can't hit him at that range. If he wants we could just tie his "girlfriend" to a stake, and use buckshot, and if I'm right we can have a barbeque. I'll even get him a new girlfriend, which ever farm animal he prefers.

< https://youtu.be/EeW6oAsMudA >

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 20 2015,9:36 pm
I had originally planned to build a nice slow stable quad that would hold video gear but it turned out to be a lot more fun to fly it light and fast. I could still put a camera on it but what would you even see when you fly like this? I would guess the throttle never hit 80% in this video.

< https://youtu.be/OVV8Fv1T1hg >

I'm building two more now, both of those will be much faster. I had planned to just build a 250mm racer but then I saw a YouTube video of a tricopter so I ordered the parts to build one of those too.

Posted by hymiebravo on Aug. 20 2015,11:50 pm
Neat. Too bad you didn't have one of those a few years back. You could have followed that tape-recorder smashing guy with it. I'll bet he would have really liked that.

Can't wait to see camera stuff, too.

Posted by nzeroesc on Aug. 21 2015,7:09 am
Smaller they are, the harder they are to shoot down right?  

< https://youtu.be/PPDTTMA98iQ >

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 21 2015,8:17 am
They get smaller all the time, and the size of hi def cameras are getting freakishly small.

The problem with the little ones are the brushed motors burn themselves up in about an hour of flying. These look like they would be easy to replace though  and the motors only cost about $1

If you check out quadcopters on apps like aliexpress there are an unbelievable amounts of them being built in China.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 27 2015,1:51 pm
QUOTE
< The Beast >

It is now legal for law enforcement in North Dakota to fly drones armed with everything from Tasers to tear gas thanks to a last-minute push by a pro-police lobbyist.

With all the concern over the militarization of police in the past year, no one noticed that the state became the first in the union to allow police to equip drones with “less than lethal” weapons. House Bill 1328 wasn’t drafted that way, but then a lobbyist representing law enforcement—tight with a booming drone industry—got his hands on it.

The bill’s stated intent was to require police to obtain a search warrant from a judge in order to use a drone to search for criminal evidence. In fact, the original draft of Representative Rick Becker’s bill would have banned all weapons on police drones.

Then Bruce Burkett of the North Dakota Peace Officer’s Association was allowed by the state house committee to amend HB 1328 and limit the prohibition only to lethal weapons. “Less than lethal” weapons like rubber bullets, pepper spray, tear gas, sound cannons, and Tasers are therefore permitted on police drones.

Becker, the bill’s Republican sponsor, said he had to live with it.

“This is one I’m not in full agreement with. I wish it was any weapon,” he said at a hearing in March. “In my opinion there should be a nice, red line: Drones should not be weaponized. Period.”
This goes way beyond license plate readers as far as over reaching law.

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 28 2015,3:17 pm
License plate readers? WtF does that story have to do with license plate readers?

My 450mm quad could be built for less than the cost of a couple flash bangs and I could hit a window or door opening at 60mph with several flash bangs that would go right through. Thats a pretty good distraction for an entry team and you don't risk any officers or dogs.

When did you right wing kooks start hating law enforcement and the military? Back in the 80s did you freak out over those wheeled robots they used for barricaded perpetrators?

Posted by Marneman on Aug. 29 2015,1:28 am
Bottom line is what it will come  down to is a few people are going to ruin it for everyone else.

That's why kids have to have their halloween candy Xrayed, why we have warning labels on coffee cups, and why we will eventually get more gun control laws.

:soapbox:

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 09 2015,2:25 pm
While it's still illegal to shoot down a recreational drone, writers seem to be having fun with < "How to Shoot Down a Drone" > in Popular Mechanics to < 'Preparing for a Drone Apocalypse' > and ammo being boxed up and labeled < Drone Munition >.
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 09 2015,3:28 pm
If you want to take them down shoot the lipo battery pack and it would burn up. It generally has to be in middle to maintain balance so shoot the middle of the body with a BB gun and when oxygen hits lithium you get a really spectacular reaction. Next time I gas a bettery I'll video putting hole in it. If i poke the tip of my knife in it they look like those round smoke bombs with a rocket like flame and gray smoke coming out within seconds.

It burns hot too, I poked a hole with my Boker knife that I use in saltwater and generally abuse on a daily basis for years and its never blemished, but a lithium battery scorched the finish at the tip just from poking the gas bubble on a 1 cell battery.

That's the biggest reason you can't be shooting them down because it could easily burn your house down.

Posted by alcitizens on Sep. 19 2015,4:20 am
B-29 model powered by 4 chainsaw engines. Must see!


< View on YouTube >

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 19 2015,4:35 am
^^cool as cool gets, it even has a sort of realistic sound. I like the Yeager test plane :thumbsup:

Now all it needs is a miniature version of Fat Man to drop on a target.

Posted by Liberal on Sep. 20 2015,9:51 am
It was cool while it lasted. Today it would probably have droppable bombs with cameras on board.  Someone needs to invent one of those rocket powered parachutes for RC vehicles.

< https://youtu.be/BWbzId0vQGM >

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 20 2015,11:17 am
^^ that was sad, this was even more sad. At the end of this wonderful documentary something stupid happens

< http://youtu.be/1Sk_U7rEiM0 >

Posted by Liberal on Sep. 22 2015,8:24 pm
Can you imagine being the ass hat responsible for the unsecured generator? It's amazing how they all pull up the lawn chairs and just watch it burn, but I suppose there was nothing else to do.

I finally ordered my video gear but decided to put it on a smaller QAV250mm frame. It's a smaller racing quad that probably won't get 5 mins flight time out of battery, but I like staying close to the ground so no need to put it on the big slow quad.

I've got stuff to do this week so probably won't get new quad built until next week, but the video camera, transmitter, receiver and monitor will be here Thursday, and I might have to hot glue it to the big quadcopter just to test the 1km range.

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 25 2015,2:15 pm
I was on 35E today just north of St Paul going through a construction zone and there were two what looked to be MNDOT workers in the median. One had a control box around her neck with a pretty expensive looking drone hovering about 5 ft off the ground.

Any ideas Lib?

Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 25 2015,2:21 pm
Kinda looked like this one
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 25 2015,8:34 pm
There's so many quad, hex, and octocopter manufacturers it's impossible to know,  but the biggest would be DJI, and they're crazy expensive, so that's my guess. Maybe the DJI S1000?

< http://www.dji.com/product/spreading-wings-s1000 >

Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 03 2015,11:43 am
cat drone.   :D


< View on YouTube >     :rofl: Finally a cat with a use.

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 03 2015,4:30 pm
Looks like the Orvillecopter, a Dutch artist had a cat named Orville that was run over, so he had it stuffed and mounted it on a quadcopter frame and called it the Orvillecopter. Now any frame that shape is called a dead cat frame.
Posted by nzeroesc on Oct. 03 2015,11:23 pm
SB

< http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/15/09/28drones.html >

MNDOT is using an < Aeryon SkyRanger >

Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 04 2015,7:04 am

(nzeroesc @ Oct. 03 2015,11:23 pm)
QUOTE
SB

< http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/15/09/28drones.html >

MNDOT is using an < Aeryon SkyRanger >

Thanks! That answers my question as to what they were doing.

I wonder if that control box is becoming the norm, if looked a lot like the one's the railroad uses to move their radio controlled engines.

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 04 2015,12:20 pm
I looked up the price and depending on features the price is $100,000 to $120,000
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 04 2015,1:56 pm

(MADDOG @ Oct. 03 2015,11:43 am)
QUOTE
cat drone.   :D


< View on YouTube >     :rofl: Finally a cat with a use.

That's just... wrong.  :O
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 09 2015,9:33 am
OK Lib, my curiosity is up,

A good starter drone? Maybe one with a cam?

Posted by Liberal on Oct. 09 2015,2:41 pm
If you've never flown one I'd start with a Syma x5c, or a similar clone. You can get a clone for $30 from China and props and motors are cheap so it's not as  painful to learn.

This is probably the Syma X5C-1, there's an upgraded version X5C-2 that's faster and more responsive in sport mode. You'd also want the 5 pack of batteries and the multiple charger.


< http://www.amazon.com/Syma-Ex...a+x5c-2 >

Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 26 2015,2:55 pm
QUOTE
< New fears for Droners >

The federal government will seek to register all drones, including the lighter, remote-controlled crafts favored by hobbyists, so it can track down any drone pilots who collide with other aircraft or violate rules for safe flights.

Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said Monday the new rules will apply to hobbyists as well as commercial drone operators, who already register.

Government regulators and industry leaders are eager to get rules in place as interest in remote-controlled aircraft surges.Quadcopters equipped with a high-definition cameras cost little more than $40 and can be purchased easily online, while models that fly longer and higher can run thousands of dollars. Retailers expect drones to fly off the shelves as gifts this holiday season.

Hobbyists argue their lighter aircraft pose less danger than the heavier commercial models and should not be as strictly regulated. Such regulations and higher costs associated with registration could drive away recreational fliers with smaller models, said Dave Mathewson, executive director of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), which represents 180,000 hobbyists. AMA pilots put their membership number, name, address on their aircraft so the owners can be found if the drones are involved in a collision, Mathewson said.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) already requires registration numbers on commercial drones and it has approved 1,891 special permits through Oct. 15 for a variety of uses, such as aerial photography, pipeline inspections and agricultural monitoring. But until  now, the FAA has not required hobbyists to register, although hundreds of thousands of remote-controlled aircraft have already been sold.

Foxx on Monday announced the appointment of a task force to develop the registration requirements, due Nov. 20. Besides AMA, task-force members include the Air Line Pilots Association, the industry group Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, the American Association of Airport Executives. Foxx said the task force will review retroactive drone registration of those already sold.

"It's a matter of responsibility that we will take seriously," Foxx said. "We want to ramp up on enforcement," he added, with $25,000 FAA fines and criminal penalties possible.

The Air Line Pilots Association, a union representing 52,000 pilots, has urged a national registry so that when a drone collides with a passenger plane, authorities can trace the drone debris back to its owner.

Capt. Tim Canoll, the union president, said registration will drive home the seriousness of flight rules. Pilots are eager "to ensure we maintain the highest levels of safety of our aviation system," he said.

Pilots have reported an increase of drones around airports as they are taking off or landing. FAA officials now say reports of such incidents number about 100 a month, which is on pace to more than quadruple the 238 incidents reported in 2014. High profile incidents, including small drones crashing in January on White House grounds and this month on the Ellipse near the White House, have also drawn attention to the issue because all drone flights are prohibited in Washington, D.C. U.S. Park Police and Secret Service identified both recreational pilots, but tracking down operators would be easier with a national registry.

“These reports signal a troubling trend,” FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said. “Registration will help make sure that operators know the rules and remain accountable to the public for flying their unmanned aircraft responsibly.  When they don’t fly safely, they’ll know there will be consequences.”


Hmm, national registry.  Probably back ground checks too for the mentally unstable.  :sarcasm: Next people will be buying them on the streets and at drone shows to get around registering them.  :popcorn:

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