Topic: $2.6 Million per Inmate
started by: alcitizens
Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 01 2015,5:00 pm
Why do we pay $2.6 million annually per inmate at Guantanamo Bay?For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 01 2015,5:36 pm
These inmates there are enemy combatants, 2.6 million???I think about 28 cents would do.
Posted by Marneman on Feb. 02 2015,2:03 am
As usual the military is getting shafted by contractors and the price is being passed on to us taxpayers.I know we have to pay to keep those detainees there with food, water, etc.., for them and the personnel assigned to guard them and it all has to be shipped or flown in to the base. So it's obvious that the government (and consequently us taxpayers) are being gouged by the companies hired to provide the supplies. I don't care what party they belong to that's just wrong and those responsible should be exposed and prosecuted.
I know probally wishful thinking on my part
Posted by grassman on Feb. 02 2015,6:52 am
^^^YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!
The US budget for defense is $662 billion while the next runner up (Russia) lags at $78 billion. Feel a burning sensation in your back pocket. It goes pretty much across the board here in the US for govt needs, contractors shooting fish in a barrel.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 04 2015,2:07 pm
Most of the people locked up in Guantanamo got there because there was a $5,000 bounty given for any al qaeda members turned in. There didn't have to be any proof that the person did anything whatsoever wrong, or if they were even al qaeda members. Some of these people have been locked up for 13 years. Imagine if that was you, or a loved one. Of the ones that are still left, 54 have been cleared for release, but aren't being released.
There's no evidence that 36 others did anything wrong, but they are considered too dangerous for release. Were they dangerous when they were locked up? Or did they become dangerous because they were locked up? And tortured.
< http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?...J:https >
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 05 2015,11:36 am
Gee, whose idea was it to build them a $750,000 soccer field and then put in lights for night games? At one time there were nearly 800 prisoners there. Why now with only 166 are there the same number of troops and lawyers assigned to the prison and inmates? Why are we importing special meals for them that cost more than we what we feed our own troops? Why do we have to maintain a 10,000 book library, provide wi-fi, satellite TV with Al-Jazeera, build a recreation center and fresh movies to watch? I'm not sure if Martha Stewart or Linda Tuttle had it that good and they didn't mean to hurt anyone.
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 05 2015,12:01 pm
Are we sending Famous Dave's???
Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 05 2015,5:48 pm
(MADDOG @ Feb. 05 2015,11:36 am)
QUOTE
Gee, whose idea was it to build them a $750,000 soccer field and then put in lights for night games?
Why are we importing special meals for them that cost more than we what we feed our own troops? Why do we have to maintain a 10,000 book library, provide wi-fi, satellite TV with Al-Jazeera, build a recreation center and fresh movies to watch?
Why are we importing special meals for them that cost more than we what we feed our own troops? Why do we have to maintain a 10,000 book library, provide wi-fi, satellite TV with Al-Jazeera, build a recreation center and fresh movies to watch?
Do you have a source for the above?
I disagree with the assertion that it's that good, because from the CIA documents it doesn't sound very luxurious. But if the food is really that great someone should tell the inmates so they can stop the forced suppositories between interrogations.
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 06 2015,5:18 am
Does this work?< http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012...36.html >
< http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/179504...torture >
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 06 2015,8:22 am
(irisheyes @ Feb. 05 2015,5:48 pm)
QUOTE
Do you have a source for the above?
QUOTE
< The reasons why Guantanamo is so expensive >
By J.D. Gordon - - Sunday, January 18, 2015
In listening to President Obama and most Democrats in Congress, one might think that holding detainees at Guantanamo Bay is what’s bankrupting America.
Last month, the president told Candy Crowley on CNN’s State of the Union that “it is wildly expensive. We’re spending millions for each individual there.”
Democratic Sen. Joe Machin III of West Virginia went further after visiting Gitmo in December: “We’re up to $3.3 million per detainee. The average annual cost per prisoner in a maximum security prison in the United States is $78,000.”
So let’s ask the simple question: Why is Gitmo so expensive?
Once anyone actually does the math in looking at specific line items, the sky-high cost myth is shattered in an instant. Here’s the bottom line.
Even though the Gitmo detainee population has shrunk from 779 to 122 detainees over a decade, the size of the military units and contractors guarding them, providing health care, cooking and cleaning for them, staffing a library and recreational activities haven’t downsized accordingly.
There are still about 2,000 deployed military men and women serving with Joint Task Force (JTF) Guantanamo, typically rotating on an annual basis. It’s the same as it was when I was a Pentagon spokesman from 2005 to 2009 and visited there more than 30 times with press and human rights groups. During those years, the detainee population declined from quadruple to triple to double the size of today.
The JTF Medical Group is still composed of about 100 health care professionals. Perversely, while dozens of American veterans have died on secret waiting lists at Veterans Affairs hospitals around the country, practically every detainee has his own doctor or nurse, waiting at his beck and call.
Next, there’s the virtual army of military lawyers. Assigned to the Office of Military Commissions (OMC) based in the Washington area, these attorneys, paralegals and support staff have made charter flights weekly or more frequently to visit their clients, and to conduct sporadic trials and pretrial motion hearings before a military judge.
While that made sense during the Bush administration when OMC prosecutors talked openly about 60 or 70 trials, the Obama administration dismissed most of those cases and are only prosecuting Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, four other September 11 co-conspirators and a handful of others.
Yet like the Joint Task Force staff, the Office of Military Commissions hasn’t shrunk, either.
Then there are things like the $750,000 detainee soccer field, built from 2011 to 2012. It’s not even nice — just a dirt patch, goal posts and chalk lines — all surrounded by a fence with green mesh around it.
There’s also the cost of up to four halal meals a day — far more expensive than for our own troops. Imported dates and honey, roasted meats, sides of olives and cheese at every meal, if that’s what the detainees want.
And then there’s all the treadmills, stationary bikes, Wii-Fits, TVs, Al-Jazeera satellite broadcasts, recreation centers, art classes, and a 10,000-volume library, where J.K. Rowling’s “Harry Potter” series was the most popular for years, only recently eclipsed by “Fresh Prince of Bel Air” videos.
Now let’s talk dollar and cents.
According to a Defense Department report to Sen. Dianne Feinstein on Dec. 1, the total cost of holding Gitmo detainees for fiscal 2014 was $397 million.
The military personnel costs were $108 million. The operations and maintenance costs were also $108 million. The Office of Military Commissions cost $113 million. Just those three big-ticket items alone add up to $329 million, most of Gitmo’s cost.
Let’s not forget the jet-setting “special envoy for gitmo closure” and deputy assistant secretary of defense overseeing detainee policy who racked up another $17 million to review cases for the hundredth time, and trotted around the globe looking for desperate countries to take in al Qaeda and Taliban suspects in exchange for who knows what.
Here’s the plain truth: If and when Gitmo closes, the taxpayer will still be paying the cost of all those military men and women, both within the JTF and OMC. They’ll just be deployed elsewhere overseas, or back to home bases. Well over 2,000 military people will not be fired if Gitmo closes. Nor will hundreds of lawyers, paralegals, contractors and support staff with OMC and other Gitmo-related agencies.
Now for actual incurred costs: If 2,000 troops could guard and care for 779 detainees, then 300 logically ought to be able to handle 122. Does each detainee really need his own personal doctor and military lawyer? Can’t they share?
If you adjust the troop levels to meet the actual mission requirements, and cut back on some of the luxuries afforded to detainees, the real cost would be just a small fraction of the party line. Much closer to the Supermax cost, actually.
In a nutshell, the bloated costs at Gitmo are highly misleading, and amount to a self-inflicted wound that Mr. Obama has forced upon the American taxpayer. This strategy is designed to apply maximum political pressure against those who support keeping Gitmo open.
Maybe it’s time for Congress to hold some specific hearings on those costs and how the Pentagon, Joint Task Force and the Office of Military Commissions do business. They’re long overdue.
• J.D. Gordon is a retired Navy commander and former Pentagon spokesman who served in the Office of the Secretary of Defense from 2005 to 2009.
By J.D. Gordon - - Sunday, January 18, 2015
In listening to President Obama and most Democrats in Congress, one might think that holding detainees at Guantanamo Bay is what’s bankrupting America.
Last month, the president told Candy Crowley on CNN’s State of the Union that “it is wildly expensive. We’re spending millions for each individual there.”
Democratic Sen. Joe Machin III of West Virginia went further after visiting Gitmo in December: “We’re up to $3.3 million per detainee. The average annual cost per prisoner in a maximum security prison in the United States is $78,000.”
So let’s ask the simple question: Why is Gitmo so expensive?
Once anyone actually does the math in looking at specific line items, the sky-high cost myth is shattered in an instant. Here’s the bottom line.
Even though the Gitmo detainee population has shrunk from 779 to 122 detainees over a decade, the size of the military units and contractors guarding them, providing health care, cooking and cleaning for them, staffing a library and recreational activities haven’t downsized accordingly.
There are still about 2,000 deployed military men and women serving with Joint Task Force (JTF) Guantanamo, typically rotating on an annual basis. It’s the same as it was when I was a Pentagon spokesman from 2005 to 2009 and visited there more than 30 times with press and human rights groups. During those years, the detainee population declined from quadruple to triple to double the size of today.
The JTF Medical Group is still composed of about 100 health care professionals. Perversely, while dozens of American veterans have died on secret waiting lists at Veterans Affairs hospitals around the country, practically every detainee has his own doctor or nurse, waiting at his beck and call.
Next, there’s the virtual army of military lawyers. Assigned to the Office of Military Commissions (OMC) based in the Washington area, these attorneys, paralegals and support staff have made charter flights weekly or more frequently to visit their clients, and to conduct sporadic trials and pretrial motion hearings before a military judge.
While that made sense during the Bush administration when OMC prosecutors talked openly about 60 or 70 trials, the Obama administration dismissed most of those cases and are only prosecuting Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, four other September 11 co-conspirators and a handful of others.
Yet like the Joint Task Force staff, the Office of Military Commissions hasn’t shrunk, either.
Then there are things like the $750,000 detainee soccer field, built from 2011 to 2012. It’s not even nice — just a dirt patch, goal posts and chalk lines — all surrounded by a fence with green mesh around it.
There’s also the cost of up to four halal meals a day — far more expensive than for our own troops. Imported dates and honey, roasted meats, sides of olives and cheese at every meal, if that’s what the detainees want.
And then there’s all the treadmills, stationary bikes, Wii-Fits, TVs, Al-Jazeera satellite broadcasts, recreation centers, art classes, and a 10,000-volume library, where J.K. Rowling’s “Harry Potter” series was the most popular for years, only recently eclipsed by “Fresh Prince of Bel Air” videos.
Now let’s talk dollar and cents.
According to a Defense Department report to Sen. Dianne Feinstein on Dec. 1, the total cost of holding Gitmo detainees for fiscal 2014 was $397 million.
The military personnel costs were $108 million. The operations and maintenance costs were also $108 million. The Office of Military Commissions cost $113 million. Just those three big-ticket items alone add up to $329 million, most of Gitmo’s cost.
Let’s not forget the jet-setting “special envoy for gitmo closure” and deputy assistant secretary of defense overseeing detainee policy who racked up another $17 million to review cases for the hundredth time, and trotted around the globe looking for desperate countries to take in al Qaeda and Taliban suspects in exchange for who knows what.
Here’s the plain truth: If and when Gitmo closes, the taxpayer will still be paying the cost of all those military men and women, both within the JTF and OMC. They’ll just be deployed elsewhere overseas, or back to home bases. Well over 2,000 military people will not be fired if Gitmo closes. Nor will hundreds of lawyers, paralegals, contractors and support staff with OMC and other Gitmo-related agencies.
Now for actual incurred costs: If 2,000 troops could guard and care for 779 detainees, then 300 logically ought to be able to handle 122. Does each detainee really need his own personal doctor and military lawyer? Can’t they share?
If you adjust the troop levels to meet the actual mission requirements, and cut back on some of the luxuries afforded to detainees, the real cost would be just a small fraction of the party line. Much closer to the Supermax cost, actually.
In a nutshell, the bloated costs at Gitmo are highly misleading, and amount to a self-inflicted wound that Mr. Obama has forced upon the American taxpayer. This strategy is designed to apply maximum political pressure against those who support keeping Gitmo open.
Maybe it’s time for Congress to hold some specific hearings on those costs and how the Pentagon, Joint Task Force and the Office of Military Commissions do business. They’re long overdue.
• J.D. Gordon is a retired Navy commander and former Pentagon spokesman who served in the Office of the Secretary of Defense from 2005 to 2009.
QUOTE
< Most pampered prisoners on the planet >
Inmates at Guantanamo Bay are so catered to and pampered that hunger strikes are seen more like weight-loss programs — the prisoners are well-fed, to the point of being overweight.
A few years ago, the inmates were so fat that officials brought in treadmills for them, The New York Post found. But then, prisoners protested because the treadmills weren’t make by Muslims, but rather stamped with “made in America” logos — so the machines were replaced.
Other ways inmates are catered to: They get “Islamic prayer beads and rugs” as part of their “standard issue” prison items, the official said. And they “get their choice of more than 10,000 Islamic books and videos, stocked by a Muslim librarian who also records soccer and Arabic TV for them,” the official said, Breitbart reported.
Gitmo just spent $750,000 for a new soccer field for prisoners, also, various media reported. And one more cater to the inmates, the source said in The Post: Prisoners have successfully petitioned “prison officials to stop raising the American flag anywhere they can see it.”
Inmates at Guantanamo Bay are so catered to and pampered that hunger strikes are seen more like weight-loss programs — the prisoners are well-fed, to the point of being overweight.
A few years ago, the inmates were so fat that officials brought in treadmills for them, The New York Post found. But then, prisoners protested because the treadmills weren’t make by Muslims, but rather stamped with “made in America” logos — so the machines were replaced.
Other ways inmates are catered to: They get “Islamic prayer beads and rugs” as part of their “standard issue” prison items, the official said. And they “get their choice of more than 10,000 Islamic books and videos, stocked by a Muslim librarian who also records soccer and Arabic TV for them,” the official said, Breitbart reported.
Gitmo just spent $750,000 for a new soccer field for prisoners, also, various media reported. And one more cater to the inmates, the source said in The Post: Prisoners have successfully petitioned “prison officials to stop raising the American flag anywhere they can see it.”
Here's a flag for all you terrorist in Gitmo.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 06 2015,9:46 am
It sounds to me that the detainees are being blamed for the expense of Guantanamo? Cuz they just love being there? As if they have any say in what is going on in this place? Repeat: Most of these people were locked up with no evidence of wrong doing. Taken away from their homes and loved ones for over a decade. Tortured, held without trial. If any other country was doing this to a group of people what would the reaction be?I don't understand how any anger is being directed at these people.
QUOTE
DOCUMENT - USA: GUANTÁNAMO AT 13: USA STILL IGNORING HUMAN RIGHTS PRINCIPLES AND EXPECTING OTHERS TO DO WHAT IT REFUSES TO:
Thirteen years is a human rights outrage. Detainees held for year after year without charge or trial. Torture and other ill-treatment, enforced disappearance, arbitrary detention, excessive force, force feeding, a handful of prosecutions under a military commission system that does not meet international fair trial standards.
Thirteen years is a human rights outrage. Detainees held for year after year without charge or trial. Torture and other ill-treatment, enforced disappearance, arbitrary detention, excessive force, force feeding, a handful of prosecutions under a military commission system that does not meet international fair trial standards.
Informative document on a few different aspects of Guantanamo.
< http://www.amnesty.org/en...en.html >
Then:
QUOTE
The cost of the marquee, along with a smaller sign positioned near the airfield: $188,000. Among other odd legacies from war-on-terror spending since 2001 for the troops at Guantanamo Bay: an abandoned volleyball court for $249,000, an unused go-kart track for $296,000 and $3.5 million for 27 playgrounds that are often vacant.
The Pentagon also spent $683,000 to renovate a cafe that sells ice cream and Starbucks coffee, and $773,000 to remodel a cinder-block building to house a KFC/Taco Bell restaurant.
...
That does not include construction bonuses, which typically run into the millions.
...
Many of the projects itemized in the breakdown are reminders of suburban America -- familiar settings re-created in a Caribbean hothouse to comfort the military personnel and contractors who run detainee operations.
Millions went to build artificial-turf football and baseball fields that professional players would envy, surrounded by a cluster of facilities, including a running track, a skate park, an outdoor roller hockey rink and batting cages.
...
But the attacks gave the base new purpose as the global holding cell in the George W. Bush administration's "war on terror." It also gave military commanders justification to ask Washington for more money.
...
KBR was paid $169 million to build the prison camps and related facilities. The company said that did not include bonuses paid by the government. The military did not provide information about bonuses paid to KBR or other contractors.
...
The Pentagon decided to renovate it for the hundreds of lawyers, dignitaries, journalists and others who would travel here to attend military commissions.
Work was completed in May 2009. It now resembles a Days Inn, with 56 renovated rooms, new bathrooms, and lounges outfitted with television sets and comfortable couches. The cost: $2.2 million.
But the hallways of AV624 are eerily silent, the rooms empty.
"We did all this work and there's nobody here," the Navy captain said. "It's up to Washington to decide what to do with it."
Located on the western side of the base, AV624 is an inconvenient ferry ride from where the military commissions take place on the eastern side. There, some lawyers and journalists sleep in tents during the commissions.
...
Nowhere is that more evident than at the Cooper Field complex along Sherman Avenue. With a pair of top-of-the-line baseball diamonds and a football field as its centerpiece, the complex looks like a high-end park in a U.S. resort town.
The Navy Morale, Welfare and Recreation Department has spent $7.3 million on the baseball and football fields, $164,000 for a skate park, $97,000 on a roller-hockey rink and $60,000 for a batting cage. Soon to come: a soccer cage for $20,000.
Near the skate park is the go-kart track, completed in 2006. The Pentagon said it spent $296,000 to build the track; the official base newspaper, the Guantanamo Bay Gazette, reported that it cost $400,000.
"This will be a great step in improving the quality of life for the entire community," Craig Basel, the then-recreation director, said during the ribbon-cutting.
But the go-karts rarely worked. The six cars are battery-powered and can barely hold a charge, faltering after one or two laps around the course. After numerous failures, the track was shut down last month. The cars are now covered with tarps.
...
In the surrounding neighborhoods are most of the 27 top-dollar but modest-looking playgrounds built for a population of 5,500. In areas such as Fairfax County, planners allot one playground for every 2,800 people.
"The playgrounds are built around the number of neighborhoods the installations has, not by the number of children," said Blaisdell, the base commander, noting that the base has 15 neighborhoods.
The average cost of a playground at the base is $130,000, two to three times the cost of similar facilities in Fairfax and Montgomery counties.
There are 398 children younger than 18 at Guantanamo Bay. During a recent visit to the base, few of them seemed interested in the playgrounds. Still, $1.6 million has been awarded for more playgrounds, bringing total spending to $5.1 million.
The Pentagon also spent $683,000 to renovate a cafe that sells ice cream and Starbucks coffee, and $773,000 to remodel a cinder-block building to house a KFC/Taco Bell restaurant.
...
That does not include construction bonuses, which typically run into the millions.
...
Many of the projects itemized in the breakdown are reminders of suburban America -- familiar settings re-created in a Caribbean hothouse to comfort the military personnel and contractors who run detainee operations.
Millions went to build artificial-turf football and baseball fields that professional players would envy, surrounded by a cluster of facilities, including a running track, a skate park, an outdoor roller hockey rink and batting cages.
...
But the attacks gave the base new purpose as the global holding cell in the George W. Bush administration's "war on terror." It also gave military commanders justification to ask Washington for more money.
...
KBR was paid $169 million to build the prison camps and related facilities. The company said that did not include bonuses paid by the government. The military did not provide information about bonuses paid to KBR or other contractors.
...
The Pentagon decided to renovate it for the hundreds of lawyers, dignitaries, journalists and others who would travel here to attend military commissions.
Work was completed in May 2009. It now resembles a Days Inn, with 56 renovated rooms, new bathrooms, and lounges outfitted with television sets and comfortable couches. The cost: $2.2 million.
But the hallways of AV624 are eerily silent, the rooms empty.
"We did all this work and there's nobody here," the Navy captain said. "It's up to Washington to decide what to do with it."
Located on the western side of the base, AV624 is an inconvenient ferry ride from where the military commissions take place on the eastern side. There, some lawyers and journalists sleep in tents during the commissions.
...
Nowhere is that more evident than at the Cooper Field complex along Sherman Avenue. With a pair of top-of-the-line baseball diamonds and a football field as its centerpiece, the complex looks like a high-end park in a U.S. resort town.
The Navy Morale, Welfare and Recreation Department has spent $7.3 million on the baseball and football fields, $164,000 for a skate park, $97,000 on a roller-hockey rink and $60,000 for a batting cage. Soon to come: a soccer cage for $20,000.
Near the skate park is the go-kart track, completed in 2006. The Pentagon said it spent $296,000 to build the track; the official base newspaper, the Guantanamo Bay Gazette, reported that it cost $400,000.
"This will be a great step in improving the quality of life for the entire community," Craig Basel, the then-recreation director, said during the ribbon-cutting.
But the go-karts rarely worked. The six cars are battery-powered and can barely hold a charge, faltering after one or two laps around the course. After numerous failures, the track was shut down last month. The cars are now covered with tarps.
...
In the surrounding neighborhoods are most of the 27 top-dollar but modest-looking playgrounds built for a population of 5,500. In areas such as Fairfax County, planners allot one playground for every 2,800 people.
"The playgrounds are built around the number of neighborhoods the installations has, not by the number of children," said Blaisdell, the base commander, noting that the base has 15 neighborhoods.
The average cost of a playground at the base is $130,000, two to three times the cost of similar facilities in Fairfax and Montgomery counties.
There are 398 children younger than 18 at Guantanamo Bay. During a recent visit to the base, few of them seemed interested in the playgrounds. Still, $1.6 million has been awarded for more playgrounds, bringing total spending to $5.1 million.
< http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0604180 >
Am I pro-terrorist and anti-troop now?
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 06 2015,12:33 pm
I'm sure the inmates feel like this,Probably a few look like this.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 06 2015,1:12 pm
Again, why with the anger and hatred towards the prisoners? Most of whom never did anything wrong, but who have been locked up and tortured, denied any kind of trial? Why do you hate them so much?Pretty sure most of the detainees think quite highly of their attorneys btw. Most of their attorneys have been trying to get actual just done for the prisoners.
Even the Chief Prosecutor has been trying to get justice for the people he was supposed to be prosecuting! He quit in disgust.
QUOTE
We were told that all the men at Guantánamo were the “worst of the worst”. In my job as chief prosecutor, where my focus was on reviewing cases for potential criminal prosecution, it was obvious the label was mostly hype. While the label fits a few – like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed – fewer than 4% of the 779 men ever sent there have or will face charges.
< http://www.theguardian.com/comment...amo-bay >
Here are some other big people who had issues with what was going on in Guantanamo:
QUOTE
We will never know the names of so many of the CIA officers who spoke out against torture. They were among the brave men and women throughout the government who challenged the brutality approved at the highest levels of government, and they are responsible for bringing to light what so many wanted to keep in the shadows.
< https://www.aclu.org/national-security/acts-courage-against-torture >
So, why do you have so much anger and hostility for these prisoners?
What would your reaction be if it was a bunch of americans locked up by another country and having the same things done to them?
Posted by grassman on Feb. 06 2015,1:35 pm
That is what our govt does, it points it's finger at other countries for bad behavior all the while doing the same and worse.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 06 2015,10:27 pm
(grassman @ Feb. 06 2015,1:35 pm)
QUOTE
That is what our govt does, it points it's finger at other countries for bad behavior all the while doing the same and worse.
It takes talent to be voted the biggest threat to world peace. According to that Gallup poll, you have to add all the votes for Pakistan, China, Afghanistan and Iran together to equal the amount of votes America received. (Afghanistan, Iran, Israel and North Korea received the same amount of votes.)
We're #1!
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 08 2015,8:20 am
^Are you one of those prison girlfriends? It's obvious your life has never been directly touched by this kind of evil.
< My Webpage >
Nuff said.
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 08 2015,8:29 am
(alcitizens @ Feb. 01 2015,5:00 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we pay $2.6 million annually per inmate at Guantanamo Bay?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
Nice try. It was the liberal establishment who were concerned about their "rights" and insisted on resort like conditions for enemy pow's and far as who's getting paid? Why don't you ask the CinC...or doesn't the buck stop there?
Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 08 2015,8:41 am
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 08 2015,8:29 am)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Feb. 01 2015,5:00 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we pay $2.6 million annually per inmate at Guantanamo Bay?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
Nice try. It was the liberal establishment who were concerned about their "rights" and insisted on resort like conditions for enemy pow's and far as who's getting paid? Why don't you ask the CinC...or doesn't the buck stop there?
Republican Controlled House votes to block Obama plan to close Guantanamo
< http://www.reuters.com/article...0130614 >
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 08 2015,8:47 am
(alcitizens @ Feb. 08 2015,8:41 am)
QUOTE
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 08 2015,8:29 am)
QUOTE
(alcitizens @ Feb. 01 2015,5:00 pm)
QUOTE
Why do we pay $2.6 million annually per inmate at Guantanamo Bay?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
For comparison, inmates at high-security federal prisons cost about $34,000 per year on average..
< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...l-held- >
Who are the people making all the money? Why do Republicans want to keep it open?
Nice try. It was the liberal establishment who were concerned about their "rights" and insisted on resort like conditions for enemy pow's and far as who's getting paid? Why don't you ask the CinC...or doesn't the buck stop there?
Republican Controlled House votes to block Obama plan to close Guantanamo
< http://www.reuters.com/article...0130614 >
He's got a pen doesn't he? He's even told us as much. Besides he had a donk controlled house and senate in his first term so don't give me the blame Republican BS. If it was important to him he could get it done. Just look what he did to health insurance and that cost us a lot more.
Now go back to your corner.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 08 2015,9:22 am
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 08 2015,8:20 am)
QUOTE
^Are you one of those prison girlfriends?
It's obvious your life has never been directly touched by this kind of evil.
< My Webpage >
Nuff said.
It's obvious your life has never been directly touched by this kind of evil.
< My Webpage >
Nuff said.
Prison girlfriend??! And what does your comment and video have to do with anything I posted? I don't like the idea of my government kidnapping, imprisoning and torturing innocent people. - because of that I must be a "prison girlfriend" or there must be something wrong with me?
And how about all the lives directly touched by the evil of the U.S. government? Lives of Americans and the lives of people all over the world.
If the people locked up in Guantanamo are suspected of something, PUT THEM ON TRIAL. Don't just lock them up and throw away the key. ESPECIALLY when so many people have been calling foul on this whole thing from the start, and especially when even the chief prosecutor says the vast majority of people in there did nothing wrong, and quits in disgust.
Guantanamo "resort like conditions"? Where exactly do you vacation?
Global Gallup poll voted the USA as being the biggest threat to world peace. Iran didn't even come close to us, North Korea didn't even come close, China didn't come close, Pakistan didn't come close, Afghanistan and Israel didn't come close.
The rest of the world just hate us for our freedoms? Hey, maybe there are reasons we are considered the biggest threat to world peace?
Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 09 2015,6:16 am
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 08 2015,8:20 am)
QUOTE
It's obvious your life has never been directly touched by this kind of evil.
The prisoners in Gitmo didn't hijack those planes on 9/11. What evil are you referring to?
QUOTE
< My Webpage >
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
It's scary that a U.S. Senator would say things like that. Decades ago there were plenty that said the Japanese could rot in those internment camps. They had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, but who cares, they're the right color, aren't they?
They don't hate us because of rock n roll music and miniskirts. I think it has more to do with the billions of dollars in weapons every year we give to Isreal. But torturing and imprisoning people without charges is a pretty good recruitment tool for insurgents when we're seen violating the liberties we preach.
Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 09 2015,8:14 am
This once-great country will soon end, and not from forces on the outside. And our so-called leaders, with Liberty's dying breath, will somehow find a way to blame the citizenry.
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 09 2015,10:48 am
(irisheyes @ Feb. 09 2015,6:16 am)
QUOTE
It's scary that a U.S. Senator would say things like that. Decades ago there were plenty that said the Japanese could rot in those internment camps. They had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, but who cares, they're the right color, aren't they?
They don't hate us because of rock n roll music and miniskirts. I think it has more to do with the billions of dollars in weapons every year we give to Isreal. But torturing and imprisoning people without charges is a pretty good recruitment tool for insurgents when we're seen violating the liberties we preach.
They don't hate us because of rock n roll music and miniskirts. I think it has more to do with the billions of dollars in weapons every year we give to Isreal. But torturing and imprisoning people without charges is a pretty good recruitment tool for insurgents when we're seen violating the liberties we preach.
It's also scary that a sitting president would compare Christians to Muslims.
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 09 2015,11:49 am
(irisheyes @ Feb. 09 2015,6:16 am)
QUOTE
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 08 2015,8:20 am)
QUOTE
It's obvious your life has never been directly touched by this kind of evil.
The prisoners in Gitmo didn't hijack those planes on 9/11. What evil are you referring to?
QUOTE
< My Webpage >
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
It's scary that a U.S. Senator would say things like that. Decades ago there were plenty that said the Japanese could rot in those internment camps. They had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, but who cares, they're the right color, aren't they?
You're comparing American citizens who happen to be Japanese sent to internment camps during WWII with enemy soldiers taken off the battle fields in Afghanistan and Iraq? That's rich.
That US Senator you're referring to did two tours as an infantry officer with the 101st Airborne in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's earned the right to say that and kudos to him for not sugar coating it.
QUOTE
They don't hate us because of rock n roll music and miniskirts. I think it has more to do with the billions of dollars in weapons every year we give to Isreal. But torturing and imprisoning people without charges is a pretty good recruitment tool for insurgents when we're seen violating the liberties we preach.
But that's not what the Secretary used as his argument to close gitmo though is it.
QUOTE
The prisoners in Gitmo didn't hijack those planes on 9/11. What evil are you referring to?
You didn't just ask this question did you? You're either living in a cave, blind, or an enemy sympathizer. Maybe all 3.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 09 2015,12:24 pm
CCQUOTE
You're comparing American citizens who happen to be Japanese sent to internment camps during WWII with enemy soldiers taken off the battle fields in Afghanistan and Iraq? That's rich.
Then put them on trial and show proof. Or listen to the people with clear information on the cases who are saying most of the people are innocent.
QUOTE
That US Senator you're referring to did two tours as an infantry officer with the 101st Airborne in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's earned the right to say that and kudos to him for not sugar coating it.
The recidivists in Guantanamo he's talking about. They were violent before being locked up and subsequently released? Or after? If they were involved with any attacks in the past, then also put them on trial with the evidence of prior "terrorism".
I also take issue with his statement "They don't hate us for what we do. They hate us for what we are."
I am a total peacenik. I do not in any way believe in or condone violence against others. But I also haven't suffered the way many of those in the Middle East and many other areas have, due to the US government meddling, lying and attacking.
Would I still be a peacenik if I had been an innocent person, kidnapped, stolen from my family, and tortured for a few years? - I hope I would. I think I would? But I do understand the anger so many people must have after suffering as much as so many have.
Would things be as bad as they are if the US hadn't goaded the Soviet Union into invading Afghanistan? Would things be as bad as they are if the US and Saudi Arabia hadn't created jihad schools and violent textbooks and classes teaching children to become jihadists to attack Soviets? Would things be as bad as they are if the US hadn't destroyed Iraq's sewer and water and imposing sanctions that killed over a million people? Would things be as bad as they are if the US hadn't lied it's butt off and invaded Iraq, devastating the country even more and killing even more innocent people?
How about if the US hadn't meddled in Iran and had the elected PM overthrown so that the UK could keep stealing the oil of Iran?
Pretty sure that whole area would be a completely different place right now if America had never meddled and if it didn't put it's "interests" above all else.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 09 2015,12:31 pm
Irish:QUOTE
The prisoners in Gitmo didn't hijack those planes on 9/11. What evil are you referring to?
CC:
QUOTE
You didn't just ask this question did you? You're either living in a cave, blind, or an enemy sympathizer. Maybe all 3.
I'm not living in a cave or blind. I'm not an enemy sympathizer or a prison girlfriend either. I'm also wondering what evil you are referring to.
The evil of being born in the wrong country?
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 09 2015,12:43 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Feb. 09 2015,12:31 pm)
QUOTE
Irish:
CC:
I'm not living in a cave or blind. I'm not an enemy sympathizer or a prison girlfriend either. I'm also wondering what evil you are referring to.
The evil of being born in the wrong country?
QUOTE
The prisoners in Gitmo didn't hijack those planes on 9/11. What evil are you referring to?
CC:
QUOTE
You didn't just ask this question did you? You're either living in a cave, blind, or an enemy sympathizer. Maybe all 3.
I'm not living in a cave or blind. I'm not an enemy sympathizer or a prison girlfriend either. I'm also wondering what evil you are referring to.
The evil of being born in the wrong country?
Islamic radicals. Haven't you heard of them? Cripes, they've had their beheading videos in the news and on youtube for years now.
I don't remember seeing the same kind of outrage and contempt for these radicals that you do the US.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 09 2015,1:00 pm
The radicals we helped create? The Saudi Arabian government beheads "criminals" on a regular basis, but yet they are our ally?How does citing Islamic radicals have anything to do with many of the people still locked up in Guantanamo?
Put them on trial.
QUOTE
I don't remember seeing the same kind of outrage and contempt for these radicals that you do the US.
I'm not blind to what our government has been doing for decades all over the world. I'm not blind to the suffering and repercussions of it either. That doesn't mean I condone extremists committing atrocities. But it also doesn't mean that I think only focusing on the blowback to our policies is going to make things better. Anywhere. - Other than maybe get us voted as biggest threat to world peace.
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 09 2015,2:32 pm
(Self-Banished @ Feb. 09 2015,10:48 am)
QUOTE
It's also scary that a sitting president would compare Christians to Muslims.
What's more scary is when the Pontiff defends them.
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 10 2015,9:09 am
What is wrong with comparing Christians to Muslims?
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 10 2015,6:40 pm
I suppose for a nonbeliever in the one true God one could draw comparisons. But for a Christian, there is one God whose only Son, Jesus Christ, was sent to earth to spare all who believes in Him as their personal Savior, was crucified, died and was buried to absolve our sins. On the third day He rose from the dead and now sits at the right hand of God. We as Christians believe in the Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. As Christian, we know that the only way to go to heaven is through Jesus.John 14
QUOTE
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 10 2015,8:21 pm
The only answer that could have been dumber than that is if you would have said, "One starts with C and the other starts with M"
Posted by grassman on Feb. 11 2015,6:23 am
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 11 2015,8:06 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Feb. 09 2015,1:00 pm)
QUOTE
The radicals we helped create? The Saudi Arabian government beheads "criminals" on a regular basis, but yet they are our ally?
How does citing Islamic radicals have anything to do with many of the people still locked up in Guantanamo?
Put them on trial.
I'm not blind to what our government has been doing for decades all over the world. I'm not blind to the suffering and repercussions of it either. That doesn't mean I condone extremists committing atrocities. But it also doesn't mean that I think only focusing on the blowback to our policies is going to make things better. Anywhere. - Other than maybe get us voted as biggest threat to world peace.
How does citing Islamic radicals have anything to do with many of the people still locked up in Guantanamo?
Put them on trial.
QUOTE
I don't remember seeing the same kind of outrage and contempt for these radicals that you do the US.
I'm not blind to what our government has been doing for decades all over the world. I'm not blind to the suffering and repercussions of it either. That doesn't mean I condone extremists committing atrocities. But it also doesn't mean that I think only focusing on the blowback to our policies is going to make things better. Anywhere. - Other than maybe get us voted as biggest threat to world peace.
Ya. I looked at where these polls came from and the people they polled. Their own countries sure don't have any problems with us when it comes to spending the money and aid we send them.
But we're the ones that are evil. Pfft...you can't in one breath want the things Americans have, accept our money and aid, and then turn around and bitch about them. We call that jealousy where I come from. Sorry you don't see the same thing.
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 11 2015,8:19 am
Are you suggesting the difference between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims don't believe in God. Or are you trying to say I don't believe in God because I sked what the difference was betwwen a muslim and a christianAnd if you think Muslims are crazy take some time to read the book of Leviticus.
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 11 2015,11:07 am
No, I'm not suggesting that muslims don't believe in God. Nor am I suggesting the they don't believe in Jesus.What your belief, is between God and you. I cannot answer for nor do anything to aid you when you meet your Maker.
QUOTE
The only answer that could have been dumber than that is if you would have said, "One starts with C and the other starts with M"
You can scoff at the Christian faith all you want. That's your choice. God gives you that too. 
Gman, nice pic. Here's one for you.
Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 11 2015,11:33 am
You should update the picture to show a hand texting on an app in a smart phone instead of a quill and a paper tablet. Just saying...
Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 11 2015,1:04 pm
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 11 2015,11:33 am)
QUOTE
You should update the picture to show a hand texting on an app in a smart phone instead of a quill and a paper tablet. Just saying...
Does God use an iPhone or an Android???😕
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 11 2015,1:43 pm
(MADDOG @ Feb. 11 2015,11:07 am)
QUOTE
No, I'm not suggesting that muslims don't believe in God. Nor am I suggesting the they don't believe in Jesus.
What your belief, is between God and you. I cannot answer for nor do anything to aid you when you meet your Maker.
Gman, nice pic. Here's one for you.
What your belief, is between God and you. I cannot answer for nor do anything to aid you when you meet your Maker.
QUOTE
The only answer that could have been dumber than that is if you would have said, "One starts with C and the other starts with M"
You can scoff at the Christian faith all you want. That's your choice. God gives you that too. Gman, nice pic. Here's one for you.
I wasn't talking to you, try to keep up.
And what part gave you the impression I was scoffing at Christians.
Posted by grassman on Feb. 11 2015,2:06 pm
I guess Lib was writing to me, I thought you have in the past referred that God was not real. If not, my mistake. God does have a Son and his name is Jesus. I don't think Islam recognizes Jesus as the Son of God.
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 18 2015,3:16 pm
(grassman @ Feb. 11 2015,2:06 pm)
QUOTE
I guess Lib was writing to me, I thought you have in the past referred that God was not real. If not, my mistake. God does have a Son and his name is Jesus. I don't think Islam recognizes Jesus as the Son of God.
Nope, don't know how. Before he said he wasn't talking to me, he stated,
QUOTE
Are you suggesting the difference between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims don't believe in God. Or are you trying to say I don't believe in God because I sked what the difference was betwwen a muslim and a christian
Now that would have been in reference to when he posted
QUOTE
Feb. 10 2015,9:09 am
What is wrong with comparing Christians to Muslims?
What is wrong with comparing Christians to Muslims?
Now that post came only after I responded. So was he speaking to me, Rosie or CC who had posted just prior to me.
Sorry, Gman. He had to be venting at one of us.
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 18 2015,10:16 pm
What are you babbling about? I was responding to grassman's picture.You might want to get checked out seems like the later the hour the more confused you get.
< http://www.webmd.com/alzheim...atments >
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 19 2015,9:39 am
I don't think you're able to follow yourself. You try too hard to be the piss in the pot than put up good argument.Gman posts a picture that says "So, you don't believe in God? That will be an excellent icebreaker when you meet Him." You follow with a post of
QUOTE
Are you suggesting the difference between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims don't believe in God. Or are you trying to say I don't believe in God because I sked what the difference was betwwen a muslim and a christian
And if you think Muslims are crazy take some time to read the book of Leviticus.
And if you think Muslims are crazy take some time to read the book of Leviticus.
Posted by Liberal on Feb. 19 2015,10:27 am
Try to follow along even Grassman knew I was referring to his picture. I normally quote who I'm responding to but you can't quote a picture. My post was clearing referencing his picture and anyone with an IQ higher than room temp could see that.
Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 19 2015,11:00 am
(Self-Banished @ Feb. 11 2015,1:04 pm)
QUOTE
(Common Citizen @ Feb. 11 2015,11:33 am)
QUOTE
You should update the picture to show a hand texting on an app in a smart phone instead of a quill and a paper tablet. Just saying...
Does God use an iPhone or an Android???
Blackberry.