Albert Lea Discussion Forum » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: Opinion
Topic: Tolerance
started by: Marneman

Posted by Marneman on Jan. 13 2015,4:27 am

Just getting fed up with the way some people in this country want to turn a blind eye to the biggest threat to peace and security in this world today. Of course I'm refering to Radical Islam!!
I understand that I have to be tolerant of other's religious believes, after all the constitution guarantees that everyone should have freedom of religion(or freedom from religion for those non-belivers out there).
But it bugs the hell out of me when some people, and it's mosly muslims, will unfurl the PC banner and demand that everyone respect their religion, and at the same time demand that everyone else stop their religious beliefs. The best example is Merry Christmas.
These PC thugs demand that everyone stop saying Merry Christmas because it offends their religious beliefs, but in caving to their demands aren't we trampling everyone else's beliefs? If anything they should take it as a compliment after all do we say Merry Christmas to people we don't like? Now I've heard that some muslims are demanding that schools not serve pork anymore. So the majority of children cant have a ham sandwich, because some muslim kid's dad might be offended. If he hasn't impressed upon his child what dietary restriction he must observe why do the rest of the kids have to suffer. It's as bad as the peanut butter ban enacted by some schools(but that a topic for another day!)

And now we watch as the radicals get bolder and bolder with their attacks upon the west. Shooting people because the drew a picture of their profit, cutting the heads off of "non-believers" and posting that for the world to see, and laughing at us as they do it, but we refuse to call a spade a spade and tiptoe around them so we don't offend anyone.

They (the muslims) move into enclaves and demand that they be allowed to govern themselves under their own laws even if those laws violate the laws and customs of the country their in!(this is happing in Europe Mostly). And when the people of that country try to speak out against such pratices they're labeled racist and neoNazi's sometimes by thei own government. It's only a matter of time before this starts happening here! (Deerborn Michigan comes to mind).

I normally consider myself to be a fair minded person, not prone to intolerance or prejudice, but theirs only so much a person can stand before they say enough. Okay I'll climb down for now. :soapbox:

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 13 2015,7:37 am

So you're offended by other religious groups that are offended by your favorite religious holiday? How would you feel if we started closing schools for Ramadan?

< http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp >

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 13 2015,9:17 am

Actually, according to your liberal lookup guide, Ramadan is celebrated depending on school demographics.

< Wiki >

Posted by grassman on Jan. 13 2015,9:44 am

Lib, you are missing the point. This has always been a Christian Nation whether you choose to participate or not. What is troublesome is these people come here knowing what it is. They get here and want everyone to conform to them. If you don't like how a nation is, stay away, simple as that. Try going to their homeland, expecting conforming and see what happens. :thumbsup:

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 13 2015,12:23 pm

So we're a Christian a nation founded on freedom of religion? And those damn Muslims should know that this is a Christan nation should convert to Christianity since we're a Christian nation, or just suck it up and quit complaining?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 13 2015,1:37 pm

Persecute

per·se·cute verb

: to treat (someone) cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs

: to constantly annoy or bother (someone)

Maddog knows that the Freedom of Religion is a major part of the United States Constitution.. It was created so no man would be persecuted because of their beliefs..

Not even Dumbass Republicans.. :rofl:

That's what make's us Americans more than anything..

Posted by grassman on Jan. 13 2015,3:30 pm

Well, we have had Christmas celebrated since as far as I can remember. Celebration of the birth of Christ. I realize it has been turned into a shopping bonanza. The true meaning is still there, but some are offended? Now we must shy away from it because they don't like it? Who is really being persecuted?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 13 2015,8:46 pm

Everyday is a holiday and I choose to celebrate every single one.. Religious holidays are here to stay for all.. Only you can choose to or not to celebrate any of them..

Ground Hog Day is an awesome religious holiday for those that worship hog's that live in the ground.. :usa:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 13 2015,10:17 pm

Let us not become the evil that we deplore..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 14 2015,1:11 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 13 2015,10:17 pm)

QUOTE

Let us not become the evil that we deplore..

"A Wise Man Learns by the Mistakes of Others, a Fool by His Own"

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,6:09 am

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 14 2015,1:11 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 13 2015,10:17 pm)

QUOTE

Let us not become the evil that we deplore..

"A Wise Man Learns by the Mistakes of Others, a Fool by His Own"

^And some people just don't have the capacity to learn..

Posted by Common Citizen on Jan. 15 2015,7:44 am

(Liberal @ Jan. 13 2015,12:23 pm)

QUOTE

Actually they should suck it up. Celebrating a Christian holiday does not prevent or interfere with Muslims ability to practice their religion no more than Hanukkah interferes with my ability to practice my faith.

They're just jealous or miss home or both.

Another thing I don't understand is why Christmas is a bother to atheists. You don't have to celebrate Christmas if you don't want and can keep on not believing as far as I'm concerned but don't take my right away just because you don't believe.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 15 2015,8:20 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 15 2015,6:09 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 14 2015,1:11 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 13 2015,10:17 pm)

QUOTE

Let us not become the evil that we deplore..

"A Wise Man Learns by the Mistakes of Others, a Fool by His Own"

^And some people just don't have the capacity to learn..

Do 't be so hard on yourself😢

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,8:22 am

QUOTE

Do 't be so hard on yourself😢

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,8:44 am

(Common Citizen @ Jan. 15 2015,7:44 am)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 13 2015,12:23 pm)

QUOTE

It's wrong for taxpayer dollars to be spent on any religion.. We live in a country that was founded on freedom of religion for a reason..

The decorations on Broadway Ave and Main St in December celebrate our freedoms as Americans to believe in a higher power or not..

Happy Holidays..

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 15 2015,9:57 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 15 2015,8:44 am)

QUOTE

(Common Citizen @ Jan. 15 2015,7:44 am)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 13 2015,12:23 pm)

QUOTE

I can't speak for atheists, but I'm offended when government gives special treatment to one religion based on that religion being practiced by a majority of Americans.

You republitards are so short sighted that it doesn't occur to you that someday Christianity might not be the majority religion in this country.

How would you feel if we had Muslim only holidays in government and Dec. 25th was just a normal workday?

Posted by grassman on Jan. 15 2015,11:27 am

Unfortunately, that day is probably on the horizon.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,3:50 pm

I'm just curious, does the City of Albert Lea or Freeborn County spend taxpayer dollars on fireworks for the 4th of July?

I would think that the sacrifice by Americans for Independence from authoritarian British rule and the future of the US Constitution would be celebrated with taxpayer dollars.. Instead we have beggars every year pleading for money on the corners of Broadway and Main so we can have fireworks..

The Freeborn County Chamber of Commerce, KATE Radio, Freeborn County and the City of Albert Lea should be ashamed..

Posted by grassman on Jan. 15 2015,4:10 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 15 2015,9:57 am)

QUOTE

First off, I am not Republican, am a Christian. I would like to know something from you. Which would you prefer to be the dominate faith in the US?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,4:20 pm

Patriotism..

Posted by Common Citizen on Jan. 15 2015,4:33 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 15 2015,8:44 am)

QUOTE

(Common Citizen @ Jan. 15 2015,7:44 am)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 13 2015,12:23 pm)

QUOTE

I don't disagree. Taxes shouldn't be spent on religion.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 15 2015,4:37 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 15 2015,4:20 pm)

QUOTE

Patriotism..

I have a feeling you have absolutely no understanding of that word.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 15 2015,6:11 pm

Only a complete moronic idiot would post a picture that states the United States Department of Homeland Security is a ministry..

You definitely put the K in KOOK..

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 16 2015,12:02 am

QUOTE

in fiscal year 2005 the federal government awarded, through seven federal agencies, more than $2.1 billion in competitive social service grants to FBOs (Faith Based Organizations)

< http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06616.pdf >

Posted by Marneman on Jan. 17 2015,2:52 am

Some peolpe have missed the point I was trying to make. It's not just the Christmas thing or a christian thing . It has to do with someone demanding tolerance for their beliefs, but not being tolerant of others in return. This country was founded on freedom of religion for everyone and I personnaly don't have a problem with that. I think everyone should be allowed (within limits of the Law) to practice their religion freely(or not for our atheist freinds out there), but it has to be a two way street. You can't demand tolerance for your religion, but demand that no other religions can practice their faith around you. That violates the spirit of our freedom of religion. I hope this clears up what I was trying to get across the other night.

On a some what related note. Since the attacks in Paris last week we have seen an awaking in some European countries over the Muslim "No-Go" enclaves that have been allowed to spring up in their countries. The people are beginning to see that allowing select religions to set up seperate self governing enclaves within their countries is subverting their countries. Hopefully it's not to late.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 17 2015,7:22 am

< http://www.mediaite.com/online...o-zones >

And

QUOTE

Identified as the founder of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, Emerson got specific about this matter: “In Britain, it’s not just no-go zones. There are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim, where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in,” he said. Prime Minister David Cameron had a strong reaction to the comments: “When I heard this, frankly, I choked on my porridge and I thought it must be April Fools’ Day. This guy’s clearly a complete idiot.”

< http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...o-zones >

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 17 2015,1:22 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 17 2015,7:22 am)

QUOTE

< http://www.mediaite.com/online...o-zones >

And

QUOTE

< http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...o-zones >

I see parts of Minneapolis becoming like this in the near future.

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 17 2015,3:48 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 17 2015,1:22 pm)

QUOTE

I see parts of Minneapolis becoming like this in the near future.

I saw that happening over by the Crack Stacks 10 years ago. Even the apartment complex I lived in was being overrun. I do not miss the stench of Somali cooking.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 17 2015,8:01 pm

Crack stacks?
Are we talking 555 Cedar?

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 18 2015,12:43 pm

I think so. Some refer to it as "the ghetto in the sky."

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 18 2015,2:45 pm

Muslim Americans and African American Churches are almost as conservative as Mormons on social issues..

< http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons >

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 18 2015,3:25 pm

Funny, I don't ever recall the Mormons ever flogging anyone :blush:

< http://www.theguardian.com/world...-badawi >

I'm willing to put up some money for a one-way ticket to Saudi Arabia for Alky. I don't know how they treat the criminally stupid there though.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 18 2015,5:16 pm

Nor do I ever recall the Mormons beheading anybody

< http://www.independent.co.uk/news...34.html >

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 18 2015,7:47 pm

Mormons believe that only Mormons will inhabit the world at the second coming of Christ..

Mormonism has been compared to Islam

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism >

We would not kill a man, of course, unless we killed him to save him.

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_atonement >

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 18 2015,8:14 pm

Really? I've not heard of a religeous killing in the Mormons, nor slapping women around, nor buggering young boys. You seem to be a staunch defender of Islam.

So tell me Alky, how long have you been interested cults?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 18 2015,10:02 pm

I have read about many religions and the majority came about with the use of fear and control.. Follow the chosen one or bad things will happen to you..

I think the 10 commandments should be renamed as the "10 steps to a healthy life" and only then taught in schools.. Don't use words like Thou.. Example: Don't kill your fellow man or woman.. Every courthouse could have one set in stone if it didn't follow any religious annotations.. Don't steal, Respect Privacy, etc..

Christianity had no tolerance for other religions at one time and neither did other religions.. Christian against Christian was common because of slight differences in their belief and a lack of education.. Tribal warfare..

People once worshiped the Pharaohs of Egypt as gods thousands of years before Jesus was ever born..

Religion reminds me of gang warfare.. Step on my turf and I'll kill you, if I gain enough power I'll come take your turf and kill you anyway.. :crazy:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,3:48 am

How does this pertain to today's Christianity which can't even remotely be compared to a cult that is as violent today as it was centuries ago.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,5:42 am

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,3:48 am)

QUOTE

How does this pertain to today's Christianity which can't even remotely be compared to a cult that is as violent today as it was centuries ago.

Christians are powerful enough to takeover turf and kill anyone that gets in their way..

The middle east will pay dearly for not accepting a gift from Christians for leaving Iraq and allowing them to maintain their own security.. They failed..

Middle East countries are trying to save their asses by joining together and attacking ISIS.. If Christians don't get a break for the investment made in Iraq and Afghanistan, we walk..

Low oil prices are added payback so we don't completely leave them to fight a Muslim on Muslim Holy War by themselves..

As I've stated before, Obama wanted Muslims to fight it out..

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 19 2015,9:04 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 18 2015,10:02 pm)

QUOTE

I think the 10 commandments should be renamed as the "10 steps to a healthy life" and only then taught in schools.. Don't use words like Thou.. Example: Don't kill your fellow man or woman.. Every courthouse could have one set in stone if it didn't follow any religious annotations.. Don't steal, Respect Privacy, etc..

OK, so how are you going to handle the first four Commandments? The first two are going to be a doozy.

Posted by grassman on Jan. 19 2015,9:37 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,5:42 am)

QUOTE

You cannot and should not confuse those actions as done by Christians.
Those were actions because of power and greed of Robber Barons, who try to hide behind Christianity. (Halliberton and Cheney come to mind). They are the ones who opened this can of madness!

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,9:52 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,9:04 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 18 2015,10:02 pm)

QUOTE

OK, so how are you going to handle the first four Commandments? The first two are going to be a doozy.

I would have to say "Use your imagination".. I would base them on family, parents and law..

All children must be allowed to remain pure until legal

Honor those that are older than you

Kindness

Truth

Forgiveness

That's all I got for now.. I know it could be done..

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,9:59 am

(grassman @ Jan. 19 2015,9:37 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,5:42 am)

QUOTE

The west has a Christian Majority which made up the majority of countries that invaded Iraq in 2003.. Afghanistan in 2001.. The Dick Cheney and the "Dick" Bush are the most sorry Christians..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,11:56 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,9:59 am)

QUOTE

The Dick Cheney and the "Dick" Bush are the most sorry Christians..

Wow, good thing Buster's not a Christian :thumbsup:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,12:59 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,11:56 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,9:59 am)

QUOTE

The Dick Cheney and the "Dick" Bush are the most sorry Christians..

Wow, good thing Buster's not a Christian :thumbsup:

You're a sick low life..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,2:50 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,12:59 pm)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,11:56 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,9:59 am)

QUOTE

The Dick Cheney and the "Dick" Bush are the most sorry Christians..

Wow, good thing Buster's not a Christian :thumbsup:

You're a sick low life..

This is hilarious considering the title of the thread😊

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,3:01 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,2:50 pm)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,12:59 pm)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,11:56 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,9:59 am)

QUOTE

The Dick Cheney and the "Dick" Bush are the most sorry Christians..

Wow, good thing Buster's not a Christian :thumbsup:

You're a sick low life..

This is hilarious considering the title of the thread😊

Can you not understand that you are not popular on this site.. Even Republicans are embarrassed by your idiocy..

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 19 2015,4:22 pm

I don't know. I kind of enjoy having him around. I even get a chuckle when he raises the hair on the back of your neck.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,4:34 pm

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

I don't know. I kind of enjoy having him around. I even get a chuckle when he raises the hair on the back of your neck.

Most think he's a freak.. Bring Paul Harvey back so we can get someone with brains compared to this moron..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,4:51 pm

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

I don't know. I kind of enjoy having him around. I even get a chuckle when he raises the hair on the back of your neck.

Thank you sir😄

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,5:01 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,4:34 pm)

QUOTE

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

I don't know. I kind of enjoy having him around. I even get a chuckle when he raises the hair on the back of your neck.

Most think he's a freak.. Bring Paul Harvey back so we can get someone with brains compared to this moron..

You just think that way because you're a liberal weenie

I can't help the fact that your wiring is all SNAFU.

The reason I compare you to Billy is because he threatened me at one time (he quickly edited the post)

Is this how you go through life? If someone disagrees with you or picks on you a little you go all ballistic? Wow, a wonder you haven't had a stroke by now.

Relax a bit, have some oolong tea, you'll feel better. :thumbsup:

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 19 2015,5:19 pm

Cripes Alki. You catch your old lady with the pooch again? You better take it easy or you'll have to see a doctor.

On second thought, forget it. It didn't help hoosier.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 19 2015,5:49 pm

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,5:19 pm)

QUOTE

Cripes Alki. You catch your old lady with the pooch again? You better take it easy or you'll have to see a doctor.

On second thought, forget it. It didn't help hoosier.

Arrrrgh You bastard! I was eating supper when I read that, damn near choked to death laughing :rofl:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 19 2015,6:31 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 19 2015,5:01 pm)

QUOTE

You just think that way because you're a liberal weenie

You can stick your tea up your a$$ smiley boy.. You're sick in the head and need help.. Be gone..

Posted by irisheyes on Jan. 20 2015,12:30 am

(grassman @ Jan. 19 2015,9:37 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,5:42 am)

QUOTE

The middle east will pay dearly for not accepting a gift from Christians for leaving Iraq and allowing them to maintain their own security.. They failed..

Thank you, I was going to point out that these wars had about as much to do with religions as any of America's past wars.

Wars are fought for economics, a modern day version of manifest destiny.

Posted by irisheyes on Jan. 20 2015,12:36 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 19 2015,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

I don't know. I kind of enjoy having him around. I even get a chuckle when he raises the hair on the back of your neck.

I'll agree with Maddog on this one, I don't mind having S.B. around.

Posted by grassman on Jan. 20 2015,2:18 am

SB does bring something to the discussion, not always correct but something. I just blame that on his upbringing. :laugh:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 20 2015,4:45 am

^^Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I appreciate most of you folks on this site and I do apologize if sometimes I get a bit out of line. Alky? G-man probably has me pegged, have any of you ever pulled the wings off of flys when you where kids?

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 20 2015,8:52 am

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 20 2015,4:45 am)

QUOTE

have any of you ever pulled the wings off of flys when you where kids?

So what do you call a fly with no wings?

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 20 2015,9:02 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 20 2015,8:52 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 20 2015,4:45 am)

QUOTE

have any of you ever pulled the wings off of flys when you where kids?

So what do you call a fly with no wings?

Probably not Bob.

Posted by grassman on Jan. 20 2015,9:11 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 20 2015,8:52 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 20 2015,4:45 am)

QUOTE

have any of you ever pulled the wings off of flys when you where kids?

So what do you call a fly with no wings?

Walk?

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 20 2015,9:42 am

^^I think that man just won a prize from the back row

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 20 2015,11:46 am

I also like having SB around. SB and I don't see eye to eye on some things, but we've agreed to disagree and move on. I wish there could be more of that on this forum. People are never going to agree on everything. Name calling and nastiness have never won an argument. People should be able to discuss things openly and honestly, whether others agree with them or not. Discussions are healthy and necessary.

Al, I hope everything is all right for you. I don't understand how such strong hostility suddenly sprang up. I truly hope everything is well with you, your family, friends and life.

Sometimes a break is needed from this forum.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 20 2015,1:40 pm

^^ thank you Roz, I like having you around here too😃

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 23 2015,2:58 pm

(irisheyes @ Jan. 20 2015,12:30 am)

QUOTE

Thank you, I was going to point out that these wars had about as much to do with religions as any of America's past wars.

Wars are fought for economics, a modern day version of manifest destiny.

Tell me the economic reason for the Bush wars that cost several trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan that you say would benefit Americans..

I don't see economic benefit from as Bush once said, a crusade in Afghanistan.

< View on YouTube >

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 23 2015,3:17 pm

< View on YouTube >

Posted by grassman on Jan. 23 2015,4:09 pm

The economic gain did not include the U.S., it was economic gain for Cheney and Company. Private gains paid for by tax payers lives and money! :hairpull:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 23 2015,6:15 pm

(irisheyes @ Jan. 20 2015,12:30 am)

QUOTE

(grassman @ Jan. 19 2015,9:37 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 19 2015,5:42 am)

QUOTE

The middle east will pay dearly for not accepting a gift from Christians for leaving Iraq and allowing them to maintain their own security.. They failed..

Thank you, I was going to point out that these wars had about as much to do with religions as any of America's past wars.

Wars are fought for economics, a modern day version of manifest destiny.

Please Opine..

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 23 2015,6:39 pm

I dislike Bush as much as anyone but I don't believe anyone would be that evil as to send young American men and women to die over money.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 23 2015,7:04 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 23 2015,6:39 pm)

QUOTE

I dislike Bush as much as anyone but I don't believe anyone would be that evil as to send young American men and women to die over money.

Read War Is a Racket, if you haven't already.

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 23 2015,7:25 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 23 2015,6:39 pm)

QUOTE

I dislike Bush as much as anyone but I don't believe anyone would be that evil as to send young American men and women to die over money.

My favorite author believed it. He felt that in World War II this wasn't the case, but in subsequent wars, kids were, to paraphrase, sent off to die like so many rich kid's playthings.

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 23 2015,8:07 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 23 2015,6:39 pm)

QUOTE

I dislike Bush as much as anyone but I don't believe anyone would be that evil as to send young American men and women to die over money.

I'l bet you were biting your lip hard when you posted this.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 23 2015,9:10 pm

Bush said from his own lips that the war in Afghanistan was a Crusade..

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 23 2015,9:23 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 23 2015,9:10 pm)

QUOTE

Bush said from his own lips that the war in Afghanistan was a Crusade..

Wow. How many T-ball trophies did you win for just showing up??

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 23 2015,10:06 pm

For one thing, there was no T-ball when I was a kid or trophies.. Second, if you can't add to the conversation, don't act like SB with stupid comments..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 24 2015,1:03 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 23 2015,10:06 pm)

QUOTE

For one thing, there was no T-ball when I was a kid or trophies.. Second, if you can't add to the conversation, don't act like SB with stupid comments..

There were trophies when I was a kid, for the winner. Glad your back, I was worried about you while you were off licking your wounds. :thumbsup:

Yes we all know how you feel about Bush :deadhorse:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 24 2015,2:58 am

You got a trophy for T-Ball? :rofl:

How's your dog? :sarcasm:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 24 2015,7:06 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,2:58 am)

QUOTE

You got a trophy for T-Ball? :rofl:

How's your dog? :sarcasm:

Not T-ball, but I still get trophies these days, punching bullseyes.

Posted by irisheyes on Jan. 24 2015,8:06 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 23 2015,2:58 pm)

QUOTE

(irisheyes @ Jan. 20 2015,12:30 am)

QUOTE

Thank you, I was going to point out that these wars had about as much to do with religions as any of America's past wars.

Wars are fought for economics, a modern day version of manifest destiny.

Tell me the economic reason for the Bush wars that cost several trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan that you say would benefit Americans..

Sorry for the delay, I sometimes only come on here every day or two. I didn't say the lives lost or the trillions spent benefited Americans, I said "Wars are fought for economics, a modern day version of manifest destiny." Chomsky refers to this as "Hegemony or Survival".

The reasons for invading Iraq turned out to be false, I don't think Bush and Co. were lying (many D's and R's believed he had WMD's), but once we were there they didn't have any intention of leaving. Long story short, most know that if Iraq wasn't in oil country we wouldn't be there, in the discussions of Iraq's importance in the region and the world it always leads to their influence on the oil market. Oil, and their proximity to Israel and Iran are the main reasons it's always been important. And those are economic reasons. Oh, as for Isreal, the fact that AIPAC owns most of our politicians plays a pretty big role whenever we end up defending Tel Aviv from another nation over there.
:soapbox:

QUOTE

I don't see economic benefit from as Bush once said, a crusade in Afghanistan.

I think we can agree that Bush wasn't the brains of the operation. That's probably the way he viewed it, but most of the others who supported the war (myself included) saw it as going in to get find the WMD that were there in violation of the sanctions from the '91 war.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am

What was the benefit of occupying Afghanistan? Nothing but a poor country run by radical right-wingers and NO oil..

We could have bombed the piss out of them when they stuck their noses out of their caves.. We could have kept them isolated like we did for about a decade in Iraq until we occupied them in 2003..

Long story short, Bush and Cheney were the King and Queen of kooks..

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 24 2015,8:57 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

Isn't it a little stuffy in there?

Posted by grassman on Jan. 24 2015,9:23 am

^^^
BADDOG! :rofl:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

We went into Afghanistan because that's where Bin Laden was. Bin Laden was the leader of the Taliban. The Taliban was behind the 9-11 attacks. - We know that because of the miraculous discovery of so many of the hijackers passports and jihad letters.
How fortuitous to find a passport in the rubble of NY even before the towers fell.- That's how the "experts" knew who to blame so quickly.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 24 2015,9:31 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 24 2015,8:57 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

Isn't it a little stuffy in there?

Ok, I added that pic to my library but if you ever use it again I'm gonna break this one out again...😵

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 24 2015,9:34 am

...or is it this one?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 24 2015,9:42 am

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

We wouldn't have even had to be in Afghanistan. The Taliban offered, more than once, to turn Bin Laden over to a third country for trial if the US would show any proof that Bin Laden had anything to do with the 9-11 attacks, but Bush said "NO, we know he's guilty, screw you hand him over."

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 24 2015,9:48 am

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

It was still stupid to occupy a worthless country..

Not to mention they took responsibility when they tried to collapse the twin towers years before.. Look that one up..

Clinton sent a few missiles that said Made In America C/O Bin Laden to Afghanistan.. Killed a few radicals..

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 24 2015,11:52 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,9:48 am)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

Afghanistan actually has quite a bit of oil. Has a buttload of precious gems and rare minerals as well. Some of this was discussed in the 9-11 topic and I think one other one.

Al:

QUOTE

Killed a few radicals..

Don't forget about the hundreds of thousands, possibly over a million, innocent citizens due to bombings and sanctions on Iraq.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 27 2015,2:26 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,11:52 pm)

QUOTE

Afghanistan actually has quite a bit of oil. Has a buttload of precious gems and rare minerals as well. Some of this was discussed in the 9-11 topic and I think one other one.

China tried drilling for natural gas and then came under fire by militants. They shutdown operations..

There is little world interest to invest in Afghanistan.. Too unstable and corrupt..

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 27 2015,11:39 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 27 2015,2:26 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,11:52 pm)

QUOTE

Afghanistan actually has quite a bit of oil. Has a buttload of precious gems and rare minerals as well. Some of this was discussed in the 9-11 topic and I think one other one.

China tried drilling for natural gas and then came under fire by militants. They shutdown operations..

There is little world interest to invest in Afghanistan.. Too unstable and corrupt..

QUOTE

Afghan Gold & Minerals Co., which was owned by a consortium led by JPMorgan Chase & Co. of the United States, was working on exploration of a gold deposit in northern Afghanistan and reviewing data from soil samples and drilling. The company planned to invest $50 million to develop a mine. The Government had also awarded Afghan Gold & Minerals the Balkhab copper exploration license in northwestern Afghanistan. Another company, Afghan Minerals group, was granted a license to explore the Shaida copper deposit in the Province of Herat. Turkish-Afghan Mining Co. was picked to explore and develop the Badakhshan gold-copper project in the Province of Badakhshan (Khaama Press, 2012).

< http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/country/2012/myb3-2012-af.pdf >
Turkish-Afghan Mning Co. Has also partnered up with Afghan Gold and Minerals (owned by a consortium led by JPEG Morgan Chase).
< http://www.turkishafghanmining.com >
Unstable and corrupt??!! That's just how the U.S. likes things. Easier to get business done that way.

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,12:11 am

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

So in your delusional world Bin Laden was the leader of the Taliban who was behind the 9-11 attack? And they were willing to turn their leader over to us?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,12:53 am

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,12:11 am)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 24 2015,9:30 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 24 2015,8:27 am)

QUOTE

So in your delusional world Bin Laden was the leader of the Taliban who was behind the 9-11 attack? And they were willing to turn their leader over to us?

Everyone already knows I don't believe the official story of 9-11. I was making a sarcastic statement. Bin Ladin/Taliban/al-quid a/whatever. And yes, if there was such irrefutable proof (instantly) that Bin Ladin was behind the attacks, why not show the proof and have the Taliban hand him over for trial instead of invading and destroying? War was a cheaper alternative? Safer? Faster?
Heaven forbid the rest of the world would have started asking questions and investigating all this "proof".

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,4:01 am

There's a big difference between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

There is also a big difference between offering to negotiate, and offering up Bin Laden.

And getting the crazy ruling government out of Afghanistan was the best part of Bin Laden being in Afghanistan. Do a little reading, anyone not committed to the nut house during that time knew the Taliban had to be destroyed.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 28 2015,6:03 am

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,4:01 am)

QUOTE

And getting the crazy ruling government out of Afghanistan was the best part of Bin Laden being in Afghanistan. Do a little reading, anyone not committed to the nut house during that time knew the Taliban had to be destroyed.

Yes, and now Buster is setting his sites on "cleansing"Israel

< http://freebeacon.com/nationa...ampaign >

How'd that work in Libya??? :sarcasm:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,6:22 am

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,4:01 am)

QUOTE

The U.S. government said it would attack Afghanistan if they did not turn over Bin Ladin. They wanted Bin Ladin because they said him and AlQuida were behind the 9-11 attacks.
They wanted to get rid of the Taliban??

Big difference between offering to negotiate and offering up Bin Ladin? So anyone should just do as the honorable US government says with no proof shown of anything or get their country blown to smithereens?

Our government is the most vile untrustworthy group on the planet.

QUOTE

Kabir said that if the United States gave evidence bin Laden was behind the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and halted the bombing, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country" – a country, he added, that would never "come under pressure from the United States."

< http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...000.htm >

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 28 2015,7:46 am

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 28 2015,6:03 am)

QUOTE

Yes, and now Buster is setting his sites on "cleansing"Israel

< http://freebeacon.com/nationa...ampaign >

I know I don't give you much credit but are you really this stupid or is it natural for you people to believe that fiction is really fact?

Cleansing Israel? :rofl:

I can't stop laughing.. :rofl:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 28 2015,7:49 am

I still can't stop laughing.. :rofl:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 28 2015,9:51 am

careful! You'll sh!t yourself and that'll piss of nurse ratchet.

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,10:56 am

QUOTE

So were you institutionalized during that time? We demanded unconditionally that the Taliban give us Bin Laden, a bunch of other terrorists, close all terrorist camps, and give us the ability to inspect them. After they knew Bush and Blair were serious they tried to negotiate, apparently the Taliban controlled government didn't understand what the word unconditional meant. You should try picking up a book.

Most sane people think troofers are the most vile untrustworthy group on the planet.

You know the wonderful thing about the government here is you can leave for greener pastures anytime you like, so what's keeping you here?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,2:12 pm

QUOTE

Most sane people think troofers are the most vile untrustworthy group on the planet.

Yeah right!!

QUOTE

You know the wonderful thing about the government here is you can leave for greener pastures anytime you like, so what's keeping you here?

Already told ya a few times. I love the country, hate the government. So I'm going to stay and keep working with others to help make this country actually become, what it only pretends to be.

So maybe if we hadn't been meddling in Afghanistan all those years ago things wouldn't have gotten as bad as they did? Maybe this stupid vile and insane government should stop fking with other countries to further our own interests?

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,2:37 pm

Working with others to change things by posting conspiracy crap on forums? If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

I can tell you're going to change a lot, just look how much you've done already. :sarcasm:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,4:17 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,2:37 pm)

QUOTE

Working with others to change things by posting conspiracy crap on forums? If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

I can tell you're going to change a lot, just look how much you've done already. :sarcasm:

Yep, all over the country, fewer and fewer people talking about which candidate is best... just like here in this forum. More and more people all over the country talking about how corrupt this country is... just like here in this forum. More and more people realizing the truth about this government and what it's lies and meddling has done for far too long. The destruction and misery it has spread over most of the world.

More and more people realizing things need to change.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 28 2015,4:29 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,4:17 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,2:37 pm)

QUOTE

Working with others to change things by posting conspiracy crap on forums? If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

I can tell you're going to change a lot, just look how much you've done already. :sarcasm:

Though I agree with you Roz and people are getting sick of it, nothing will happen as long as everyone's fat and happy.

It's easy to garner vote when you're giving out free sh!t

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,5:04 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,4:17 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,2:37 pm)

QUOTE

Working with others to change things by posting conspiracy crap on forums? If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

I can tell you're going to change a lot, just look how much you've done already. :sarcasm:

Seriously, you think your mentally unstable ramblings did all that? You really do have a screw loose.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,6:21 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,5:04 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,4:17 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,2:37 pm)

QUOTE

Working with others to change things by posting conspiracy crap on forums? If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

I can tell you're going to change a lot, just look how much you've done already. :sarcasm:

Seriously, you think your mentally unstable ramblings did all that? You really do have a screw loose.

QUOTE

If only our founding fathers had done as much as you and your troofer friends. :crazy:

More and more of us all the time.
Is it only "troofers"? :rofl:

HELL NO!!
Ever since Occupy a WHOLE LOT of people have been energized, talking in forums, to friends and family about how corrupt this government is. Sharing and spreading information. More and more people all the time.

QUOTE

Though I agree with you Roz and people are getting sick of it, nothing will happen as long as everyone's fat and happy.

Every day fewer people are content with being fat and happy and keeping the status quo. People are wanting to know the truth of what is going on. More people all the time are realizing the corporate owned lying mainstream news is, for the most part, useless. More people are going to alternative news sites, and more people are talking in forums and chats spreading real information.

When the next Occupy type protests start up, it's going to be a helluva lot bigger and stronger. They won't be able to hide it, lie about it or twist it as easily as they did the first one.
People are wanting things to change for their children and grandchildren. And other peoples' children and grandchildren. More people all the time realize that things HAVE to change or it's going to be a nightmare for our children, and it will remain a nightmare for so many other peoples' children around the world if things don't change.

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,6:33 pm

Anyone with the ability to comprehend what they read can look at the topics on the forum and almost everyone is about politics and which party or candidate is better than the other. I didn't see one topic about things needing to change.

You're a complete nut that's why nobody interacts with you except me and that's only to tell you what a nut you are.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,7:03 pm

(Liberal @ Jan. 28 2015,6:33 pm)

QUOTE

Hardly anyone interacts with anybody on this forum other than to call each other names.
You didn't see one topic about things needing to change? Well thank God this isn't the only forum in America

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 28 2015,7:36 pm

But didn't you just claim you were changing the country and this forum with your insane ramblings?

I completely forgot about you spending hours watching the livestream of the occupy the park protests. I'm guessing that's about the extent of your involvement in anything. How is that occupy group doing these days. :rofl:

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 28 2015,8:12 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,6:21 pm)

QUOTE

More and more people all over the country talking about how corrupt this country is... just like here in this forum. More and more people realizing the truth about this government and what it's lies and meddling has done for far too long.

Not... really.

I'm not seeing it where I'm at. One friend watches GMA instead of CBS This Morning, because GMA has more fluff, and she says we need more fluff, with all the bad news pouring in. This is also a person, otherwise reasonably intelligent, that feels we could be blown up by terrorists on our next outing to the grocery store.

And she's not alone. Most of my friends and associates don't even want to go down that conversational road, and the ones who do only take it as far as just talking in private about what should be done, or at the most, reposting articles on Facebook. There's more outrage out there about Michael Moore's American Sniper commentary right now than anything going on in Washington.

SB's right. We're too fat and happy. Murrow noted that 60 years ago when he said, "We are currently wealthy, fat, comfortable and complacent. We have currently a built-in allergy to unpleasant or disturbing information. And our mass media reflect this. But unless we get up off our fat surpluses and recognize that television in the main is being used to distract, delude, amuse and insulate us, then television and those who finance it, those who look at it and those who work at it, may see a totally different picture too late." The "too late" part will be when the economy collapses, and the rioting over twenty-dollar loaves of bread makes Ferguson, Missouri look like a Boy Scout marshmallow roast. Then it will be too late.

As far as Occupy Wall Street goes, this < clip > from HBO's The Newsroom perfectly sums up why that effort went nowhere.

TV divided and insulated us. The Internet only made it worse. This will never get fixed. Time to face facts.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 28 2015,8:55 pm

Severe corruption in a wealthy country like the US is very difficult unless you are liars like Bush and Cheney..

Wealthy countries can afford to pay a department that overlooks a department that is in charge of a department that oversees the department of departments.. Its difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of the Head of Departments..

In most cases there is someone that will make evidence of corruption public..

Poor countries don't have someone standing over the shoulder of anyone.. They're too poor.. This is when corruption is profitable for those at the top.. If not, someone is gonna get wacked..

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 28 2015,10:31 pm

(Botto 82 @ Jan. 28 2015,8:12 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,6:21 pm)

QUOTE

Thanks for that clip from Newsroom. Pretty accurate depiction of how it went. There was one big difference in that clip though. In real life, most MSM stories never let it be known that corruption in government was an Occupy thing. I'm sorry that you are not seeing a difference in people around you yet, but it is happening quite extensively all over. The majority of Americans don't trust the mainstream media and are getting their news from alternatives. -Gallup polls show this and MSM news is losing audiences big time. More people are finding out the truth of things. More people are losing their allergy to uncomfortable and disturbing information. The Internet has been GREAT for sharing and spreading reality. I agree with you about Facebook, I got rid of my Facebook quite awhile ago, it was useless. In my circles it was the choirs preaching to the choirs, that's one of the reasons, I think, that so many people now go into forums and chat rooms. It's the best way to reach others. I've read tons of past topics and posts in this forum, and so many people here have brought up so many of the major problems over the years, and you are right, there's usually not much discussion about them, and if there is, it just seems people move on and decide "it is what it is". Hopefully soon more people here won't be content with that solution. Was it Forum member BlackDog who posted the definition for "it is what it is"? Whoever it was that posted that, it was a very good definition.
I really will vacate the forum if that's what members want. Think I like doing what I'm doing? I'm not content with it is what it is, but if that's really what most here want, then I will drop this forum.
I know it's hard to believe, but some forums actually have large memberships and they actually TALK and DISCUSS things rationally! They share actual information and don't resort to name-calling! Crazy idea ain't it?!
More and more people all the time are deciding that voting for the lesser of two evils isn't even a true saying anymore. Both parties are the same. And more and more people really are deciding they've had enough and they want things to change, for their children's' sake. So the next Occupy type thing that starts will be much bigger and stronger and harder for the corporate owned media and corporate owned government to kill it.

Al

QUOTE

· Posted on Jan. 28 2015,8:55 pm
Severe corruption in a wealthy country like the US is very difficult unless you are liars like Bush and Cheney..

Wealthy countries can afford to pay a department that overlooks a department that is in charge of a department that oversees the department of departments.. Its difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of the Head of Departments..

In most cases there is someone that will make evidence of corruption public..

Al, the U.S. government is full of corruption. So many of the big corporations have a revolving door with employees and government workers. They have a revolving door with the departments that overlook the departments that are in charge of the departments!
Al, there are many many people who try to make corruption and wrong-doing public. - They just don't usually get top billing in mainstream national news stories.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,1:36 am

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 28 2015,10:31 pm)

QUOTE

They just don't usually get top billing in mainstream national news stories.

Because it rarely ever happens in a wealthy country like the United States..

Too many people watching each other in the US.. Majority just want a paycheck every week..

I feel bad that I have to tell you that you're a dipsh!t.. Don't waste my time girl or you'll pay the price..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 29 2015,4:55 am

^^Don't worry about this moron Roz, he's a terrorist with an empty gun. Pretty damned harmless. :rofl:

Pay the price???

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 29 2015,7:58 am

Nothing makes Roz' point about discussions without insults and put-downs like a couple of subsequent posts with insults and put-downs. :frusty:

Posted by grassman on Jan. 29 2015,11:01 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 28 2015,8:55 pm)

QUOTE

Just how severe does it have to be before it is not tolerated?!
I think Roz brings up many good points. Some call names and shrug it off. Just how much in your face does something have to be before one acknowledges that it is there and it is a problem?
Sometimes an illusionist will perform a trick in plain view, the trick is, you have been conditioned to accept it.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 29 2015,11:54 am

(grassman @ Jan. 29 2015,11:01 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 28 2015,8:55 pm)

QUOTE

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 29 2015,12:05 pm

Accept what? If you think your being oppressed by the big bad federal government what is keeping you here? Maybe you and the nut could get together and move to a country that is less corrupt than the United States. I'd guess almost every country can use someone to cut the grass, but I'm thinking the nutter will have a lot tougher time finding work.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 29 2015,12:40 pm

^^Wow, what a simple and juvenile explanation, just move!
Having a bad day Lib?

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 29 2015,1:47 pm

(liberal @ pretty much any day, any time)

QUOTE

I really hate when people have opposing views and opinions to mine, so I'll do whatever it takes to discredit everything they say. No matter how ridiculous and foolish it makes me look. I'll even do a complete 180 on views and opinions I've previously shared in the forum. Even on the extremely rare occaisions that I am able to find and share credible information that might shed light on inaccuracies in things other forum members are saying, I will post the information and add my own diatribe on how stupid, ignorant and completely useless in every single matter that other members are.

Since I usually can't find credible information to discredit things other members post, I will twist their words, if I have to I will outright lie about things they say. It doesn't bother me in the least that pretty much every single other forum member can clearly see that I'm twisting and outright lying. I'll even lash out and say appalling things about their family members if I have to. Sometimes I won't bother lying or twisting, I will just bash and ridicule in any way possible people who post information that I'm unable to refute, and I'll respond that looking for and posting contrary information is not worth my time.

It's MY forum. The word "Discussion" in the forum title is merely a suggestion and it is reliant completely on my whim. I don't even care if my arrogance and transparent BS destroys my own forum! I'll just blame the decline in forum participation on other members.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,4:02 pm

I just get aggravated when someone blames our mainstream news media for not reporting something that does not exist..
If our mainstream news media posted half the crap posted by Roz, SB and MD, we would have nothing but 3 or 4 news channels called FOX News.. :rofl:

Much of which isn't based on fact, only opinion.. And isn't news..

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 29 2015,4:10 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 29 2015,4:02 pm)

QUOTE

Much of which isn't based on fact, only opinion.. And isn't news..

I love t when you're stupid. :thumbsup:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,4:45 pm

(grassman @ Jan. 29 2015,11:01 am)

QUOTE

Private sector fraud is a huge problem.. I just don't see very much government corruption since getting rid of the Bush/Cheney military complex.. Maybe Bancroft Township.. :dunno:

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 29 2015,5:26 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 29 2015,4:45 pm)

QUOTE

Private sector fraud is a huge problem.. I just don't see very much government corruption since getting rid of the Bush/Cheney military complex..

Big bankers don't call the U.S. Treasury Department "Government Goldman" for nothing. There's enough corruption right there to keep us going for months.

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 29 2015,5:42 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 29 2015,4:45 pm)

QUOTE

(grassman @ Jan. 29 2015,11:01 am)

QUOTE

Private sector fraud is a huge problem.. I just don't see very much government corruption since getting rid of the Bush/Cheney military complex.. Maybe Bancroft Township.. :dunno:

If gov. Corruption was prosecuted like private sector corruption we probably be holding emergency elections right now. We have one of the most deviant gov. of all times.

I'm curious, what's it like going through life not having to think for one's self? Wake up in the morning, turn on one of the three broadcast channels, get you daily talking points of what you should say and think. Do you ever have an original thought? Do you ever look at something or hear about something and apply critical thought to it? Maybe it physically hurts you to try.

We've bantered leadership on this forum from time to time, what your idea of a leader is and from what I can deduce is that for you a leader is someone who takes care of you, gives you free sh!t, probably sh!t that maybe even once belonged to me. Ah, for a politician, be it dem or repub it makes no difference, it's easy to get votes with you give sh!t away :thumbsup:

True leadership is hard, sometimes a leader has to say "enough, we can't do that anymore" or in the case of the affordable care act, "hey, it's a nice jesture but taking from people to make to make it easier for others is wrong" True leadership is making the hard choices and living with the results, good or bad.

Think for yourself Alky, you might be surprised what you come up with.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,6:22 pm

(Botto 82 @ Jan. 29 2015,5:26 pm)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Jan. 29 2015,4:45 pm)

QUOTE

Private sector fraud is a huge problem.. I just don't see very much government corruption since getting rid of the Bush/Cheney military complex..

Big bankers don't call the U.S. Treasury Department "Government Goldman" for nothing. There's enough corruption right there to keep us going for months.

I also get aggravated when claims are made without proof.. That's why I don't watch FOX News..

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,6:28 pm

Goldman Pays $550 Million to Settle Fraud Case

< http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/business/16goldman.html?_r=0 >

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,7:33 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 29 2015,5:42 pm)

QUOTE

Anyone can share their original thoughts but it doesn't make what they say FACT.. Its an opinion..

I'm surprised that the leadership of Obama has been as successful as he's been without having any support from Republicans.. He had to do it his way with the support of the American people..

The US Constitution should guide the way we think..

I may hate stupidity but people have the right to be stupid as long as they don't break the law.. I tolerate stupid people but it doesn't mean I have to like it..

What you call free stuff is what makes our society as peaceful as it is.. Take away the free stuff and you have Anarchy..

I've always thought you showed signs of being a Radical Right Anarchist.. :frusty:

Posted by Liberal on Jan. 29 2015,9:04 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 29 2015,1:47 pm)

QUOTE

(liberal @ pretty much any day, any time)

QUOTE

Your welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts. As far as your nutty crap every time you bring up your BS conspiracy theories I will ridicule you. I've done this to every conspiracy theorist on this forum and I'll continue to do it as long as this forum exists.

It's really simple to understand, if you want to post conpiracy crap take it to abovetopsecret, naturalnews, beforeitsnews, or prisonplanet. I'm sure you'll find plenty of people that believe the government had something to do with 9/11, or that Sandy hook was a hoax, and the Aurora massacre was some type of conspiracy. :crazy:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 29 2015,11:38 pm

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 29 2015,4:55 am)

QUOTE

^^Don't worry about this moron Roz, he's a terrorist with an empty gun. Pretty damned harmless. :rofl:

Pay the price???

Being ridiculed is paying the price.. You should know better than anyone..

(libertarianism has often been used as a synonym for anarchism)

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism >

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 30 2015,12:41 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 29 2015,11:38 pm)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 29 2015,4:55 am)

QUOTE

^^Don't worry about this moron Roz, he's a terrorist with an empty gun. Pretty damned harmless. :rofl:

Pay the price???

Being ridiculed is paying the price.. You should know better than anyone..

(libertarianism has often been used as a synonym for anarchism)

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism >

You should be paying more, I'll certainly try to help with that :thumbsup:

Buster is no better than a gangster, his philosophy is that of Capone's " you can get further with a kind word and a gun than with just a kind word alone"

I'm pretty certain that twenty years from now we'll look back and think "what the hell were we doing?"

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,1:45 am

I see more corruption in local governments than I do from the federal government.. There will always be those in an elected/non elected government positions that will commit criminal acts while serving their constituents.. Its a very difficult thing to do without all of the officials being on the same page..

City of Bell Scandal
(City officials and seven city council members have been arrested for misappropriating funds)

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Bell_scandal >

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 30 2015,5:15 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,1:45 am)

QUOTE

I'm sure you see corruption everywhere Mr. McCarthy :rofl:

Bell Ca. Happened because it's citizens were not paying attension.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,9:50 am

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 30 2015,5:15 am)

QUOTE

I'm sure you see corruption everywhere Mr. McCarthy :rofl:

Bell Ca. Happened because it's citizens were not paying attension.

I did a search for corruption in local government Mr Magoo..

List of state and local political scandals in the United States

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki..._States >

Posted by grassman on Jan. 30 2015,10:06 am

The Goldman settlement is a good example of what goes on. These banks steal billions and get fined millions. Nobody goes to jail. If I steal a thousand from you, I pay full restitution and go to jail. Who came out ahead?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,10:25 am

I agree grassman, and I don't have a clue why someone doesn't go to jail.. Same thing with JP Morgan/Chase and Citi..

My guess is they pay people to shred documents and destroy hard drives really fast.. :dunno:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 30 2015,10:26 am

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,9:50 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Jan. 30 2015,5:15 am)

QUOTE

I'm sure you see corruption everywhere Mr. McCarthy :rofl:

Bell Ca. Happened because it's citizens were not paying attension.

I did a search for corruption in local government Mr Magoo..

List of state and local political scandals in the United States

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki..._States >

So which is it? Private or public sector? You were just bitching about private sector stuff, saying that most of it was there. Now you come out with the public sector stuff. Notice on that list that there are both R's and D's.

Kinda says something about our whole system of gov. :flame:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,11:12 am

(Liberal @ Jan. 29 2015,9:04 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 29 2015,1:47 pm)

QUOTE

(liberal @ pretty much any day, any time)

QUOTE

You just can't stop lying. It's mind boggling. How many times do I have to say I never thought Sandy Hook was a hoax? Do you think no other forum members read the topics or remember them? I don't see how anyone who read the "Dead Children in Connecticut" topic could think I was in any way saying it was a hoax.
The Aurora massacre. My beef with that was how they instantly said it was a lone wolf attack, even though there were many eye witnesses who said there was more than one person, and plenty of evidence pointing to there being more than one person.
I don't believe the government's story on 9-11 and I've pointed out a huge number of credible people who also have problems with many parts of the official version. But according to you, anyone who doesn't believe the whole entire story the government put out, is a crazy lunatic who automatically believes the government did 9-11 as a false flag. Even when inconsistencies and alterations to the story are pointed out. Nobody is supposed to question anything. Because to question any part of it, is to believe the government pulled off 9-11. Right?
You just can't stop lying and twisting. Do you honestly think nobody else on this forum notices your lies?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,11:24 am

Medicare fraud by doctors and hospitals is a big problem in the private sector..

Corruption by elected officials seems to involve mostly state and local governments.

When was the last time an elected official from the federal government was arrested on corruption charges?

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 30 2015,12:00 pm

^^when you're the big dog at the trough you're kinda immune.
Just ask Buster. :blush:

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,12:28 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,11:12 am)

QUOTE

many eye witnesses who said there was more than one person, and plenty of evidence pointing to there being more than one person.

many eye witnesses have said they saw Bigfoot, and plenty of evidence pointing to there being a Bigfoot living in the woods.. :crazy:

See, the mainstream news media hasn't reported this story.. :sarcasm:

Posted by Self-Banished on Jan. 30 2015,12:56 pm

^^my, what a condescending ass.

Hole.😬

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,2:18 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,12:28 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,11:12 am)

QUOTE

many eye witnesses who said there was more than one person, and plenty of evidence pointing to there being more than one person.

many eye witnesses have said they saw Bigfoot, and plenty of evidence pointing to there being a Bigfoot living in the woods.. :crazy:

See, the mainstream news media hasn't reported this story.. :sarcasm:

Good grief Al, what exactly is wrong with questioning why the Aurora shooting was immediately labeled a lone wolf attack?? Seriously sheesh! Good god it's getting so nobody can say a damn word in this forum without getting jumped on. No wonder this forum is dying. Who would want to open their mouth at all in this type of atmosphere?

Here's just a couple people who tried to get attention to what banks were doing. Nobody listened and their lives were destroyed. How many other people were destroyed or at least hurt by the actions of these banks?

Leyla Wydler worked for Stanford Financial Group. She contacted the SEC and the major news networks trying to get them investigated for defrauding customers. She was ignored and fired. Later it was revealed he was pretty much running a $7 Billion Ponzi scheme. Which is exactly what Leyla had been trying to warn about.

Eileen Foster tried blowing the whistle on Countrywide for fraud. Bank of America bought Countrywide and fired her for trying to blow the whistle...I mean "unprofessional conduct".

Revolving door between banks, regulators and government.:

QUOTE

And so it goes, the revolving door between government service and big money in the private sector spinning so fast it becomes an irresistible force hurling politics and high finance together so completely it’s impossible to tell one from the other.

< http://billmoyers.com/2012...pinning >

In the forum almost 3 years ago:
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin...;t=9802 >

< http://www.pbs.org/wgbh...ays-yes >

Al, what is your opinion on how much more secretive and less transparent the government keeps getting? Refusing FOIA requests, reclassifying documents, making more and more information top secret so it can't be released?

It's already been discussed in the forum about BP and Coast Guard threatening to arrest CBS reporters in the Gulf of Mexico. Reporters threatened with arrest at the Mayflower spill. Then this: Armed escort for reporters:
< http://abcnews.go.com/Politic...&page=2 >

We've already talked about how absolutely no mainstream national news reported how the US government new in advance how devastating it would be for the Iraqi people to have their water/sewer destroyed and keeping them from having safe water.

A few people whose lives have been destroyed for blowing the whistle on things in the government. Just pointing out that this article is in the Lifestyle section of Washington Post. Along with all the other important stories like broadway musicals and actor bios.
< http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifesty...ry.html >

Not to mention barely any mention whatsoever of the NDAA and the government now having the ability to lock up american citizens indefinitely. No lawyer, no trial. They don't even have to show anyone proof that the person did anything wrong. You still haven't given your opinion on that one. One person in the forum says anyone who worries about that is a kook. (Cuz this is America and that power would neverrrr be used) So why have it in the first place then? What is your opinion?
Barely any mention in mainstream national news of some very big names suing Obama over this either.

But so long as the President is democrat, anyone who questions anything is nuts right?

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,3:54 pm

Sorry if you took my version of sarcastic satire so seriously.. If you go back and read it again you might find the humor in it..

Have you ever overwhelmed the men in your life? I'm getting old and can't handle more than one point of view per post.. I feel myself starting to hyper ventilate from all the points you're trying to make.. When you write a book with so many points, you take away from the discussion forum meaning.. Not to mention that I forgot how to type years ago and now I have to hunt and peck.. I'm over my limit for words in a single post already and I haven't even began to answer your questions..

Whistleblowers need to make contact with an investigative reporter and bring as many documents as possible to show proof of the claims.. They can also request to remain anonymous if possible..

I can't think of a country where reporters are as free to report anything and everything, say what they feel about individuals as reporters do in America.. They just need every single fact, documents to be true before they take the story to the boss because if the boss decides to run the story and later find the story to be false, both would most likely be fired.. Just because a person is passionate about the information they give to a reporter doesn't make it factual without solid proof..

I'm pretty sure Obama reversed the part in the Patriot Act that says someone involved in terrorism can be held indefinitely without due process.. He used his executive power to change that part.. He's a constitutional attorney and said it was unconstitutional..

I'm like an investigative reporter with common sense most of the time.. I need legitimate facts that prove Bigfoot exists.. The lack of facts and my own common sense says Bigfoot is nothing more than a hoax.. Witnesses do not support the level of proof that I require..

:faint:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,5:35 pm

Al, thank you for answering some of my questions. I do agree with you that there were a lot. But all of those questions and items have previously been brought up in this forum, most of them have been brought up several times. They were not brought up all at one time in a confusing jumble, which I admit I just did. They have been brought up one at a time in the past, but you never gave your opinion on any of them.

QUOTE

Whistleblowers need to make contact with an investigative reporter and bring as many documents as possible to show proof of the claims.. They can also request to remain anonymous if possible..

Most of them do, but the thing is, there is a process that whistleblowers have to follow. They usually have to bring the issues up to their superiors (who are usually the ones they are trying to blow the whistle on). Usually they are fired shortly after they bring the problems up. That's why many people say Snowden did what he did, the way he did it.

QUOTE

I can't think of a country where reporters are as free to report anything and everything, say what they feel about individuals as reporters do in America..

Then what is your opinion on reporters being harassed, arrested and threatened with arrest, and being put on surveillance, just for doing their job here in America?

QUOTE

I'm pretty sure Obama reversed the part in the Patriot Act that says someone involved in terrorism can be held indefinitely without due process.. He used his executive power to change that part.. He's a constitutional attorney and said it was unconstitutional..

We're not talking about the Patriot Act, we're talking about parts of the NDAA which gives the government the power to lock up an American citizen indefinitely, without access to a lawyer, without trial, and without having to show proof that the person did anything wrong or even planned on doing anything wrong.

I couldn't find much at all about this years' NDAA. This is about the only "credible" sourced item I could find about the indefinite detention provisions in this years version:

QUOTE

This is a shame, because there are good, bipartisan amendments out there, like the Due Process Guarantee Act – an amendment that Senator Feinstein and I attempted to offer for the Senate’s consideration – which would improve the 2015 NDAA by prohibiting the indefinite detention of U.S. persons.

Even though the Due Process Guarantee Act received 67 votes of support in the last Congress, it continues to be blocked by the privileged few who cobbled together this bill.

Now, at the eleventh hour, we’re told that we have to vote for everything in this legislative medley or vote for none of it.

< http://www.lee.senate.gov/public...bf90e87 >

Should read his remarks on the development and voting on of this bill. Pretty damn messed up and dysfunctional. Not a very representative of the people kind of thing. Then something he said led me to this :

QUOTE

LAS VEGAS — Interior Secretary Sally Jewell on Saturday criticized a last-minute addition to a major defense policy bill that would hand 2,400 acres of land in Arizona to an Australian mining corporation.
...
But the land also includes sites sacred to the San Carlos Apache tribe, including Apache Leap, where warriors once leapt to their deaths rather than being killed or captured by U.S. troops moving west through the frontier.

< http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...n-sites >

QUOTE

I'm like an investigative reporter with common sense most of the time.. I need legitimate facts that prove Bigfoot exists.. The lack of facts and my own common sense says Bigfoot is nothing more than a hoax.. Witnesses do not support the level of proof that I require..

Making a comparison between mass murder and bigfoot?

I apologize in advance, I know there is more than one question and one topic in this post, but I tried to make it as easy to understand and follow as possible.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,7:15 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,5:35 pm)

QUOTE

Republicans refuse to remove the indefinite detention without due process clause from the NDAA and Obama will never use it..

It is basically political cover for Republicans so Guantanamo can keep prisoners detained indefinitely without due process and Obama fails to keep his 2008 campaign promise that Guantanamo will be shutdown when he becomes President..

Its so unconstitutional.. :crazy:

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,7:57 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,7:15 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,5:35 pm)

QUOTE

Wowwwww... Sure, yeah, ok.

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 30 2015,8:34 pm

QUOTE

indefinite detention provisions

I read that again, as I happened to have Hogan's Heroes on the TV. That led to me looking up the Wikipedia page on the Gestapo.

QUOTE

The power of the Gestapo most open to misuse was called Schutzhaft—"protective custody", a euphemism for the power to imprison people without judicial proceedings.

I'm sure I'm even more of a kook now, for having drawn a parallel between what the U.S. government is doing, and something the Nazis did,

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,8:56 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,7:57 pm)

QUOTE

Wowwwww... Sure, yeah, ok.

Obama Rips Congress For Violating The Constitution By Blocking Him From Closing Guantanamo

< http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=123866 >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,9:24 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,8:56 pm)

QUOTE

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,7:57 pm)

QUOTE

Wowwwww... Sure, yeah, ok.

Obama Rips Congress For Violating The Constitution By Blocking Him From Closing Guantanamo

< http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=123866 >

Al, I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with the President having the power to indefinitely detain American citizens.

Botto, only a kook would think you're a kook.
A few parallels could be drawn now I reckon. It's just not bad enough yet for some to care I guess.

Posted by alcitizens on Jan. 30 2015,10:20 pm

(Rosalind_Swenson @ Jan. 30 2015,9:24 pm)

QUOTE

Al, I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with the President having the power to indefinitely detain American citizens.

It just verifies what I said in post 144.. Republicans refused to get rid of the indefinite detention clause to block Obama from shutting down Guantanamo..

Statement by the President December 31, 2011

I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

< http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pre...hr-1540 >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 30 2015,11:20 pm

(alcitizens @ Jan. 30 2015,10:20 pm)

QUOTE

Statement by the President December 31, 2011

I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

< http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pre...hr-1540 >

Obama's signing statement was included in the very first posting of the NDAA discussion. Botto posted a very good article about it, I hope you read the entire thing.

QUOTE

Obama Signs Defense Bill Despite 'Serious Reservations'

WASHINGTON -- Indefinite military detention of Americans became the law of the land Saturday, as President Barack Obama signed a defense bill that codified that authority, even as he said he would not use it.

The National Defense Authorization Act states how the military is to be funded, but also includes a number of controversial provisions on arresting and holding suspected terrorists, which at first drove Obama to threaten a veto.

He retreated from that threat after Congress added provisions that took the ultimate authority to detain suspects from the military's hands and gave it to the president. Congress also clarified that civilian law enforcement agencies -- such as the FBI -- would still have authority to investigate terrorism and added a provision that asserts nothing in the detention measures changes current law regarding U.S. citizens.

Still, the signing on New Year's Eve as few people were paying attention angered civil liberties advocates, who argue that the law for the first time spells out certain measures that have not actually been tested all the way to the Supreme Court, including the possibility of detaining citizens in military custody without trial for as long as there is a war on terror.

"President Obama's action today is a blight on his legacy because he will forever be known as the president who signed indefinite detention without charge or trial into law,” said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

"The statute is particularly dangerous because it has no temporal or geographic limitations, and can be used by this and future presidents to militarily detain people captured far from any battlefield," Romero added. "The ACLU will fight worldwide detention authority wherever we can, be it in court, in Congress or internationally.”

The administration was especially sensitive about the law and about reaction to the president signing it. In addition to enacting the measure while few people were paying attention -- and many opponents still had hopes the president would veto the bill -- the White House added a signing statement specifying that the Obama administration would not detain Americans without trial. The White House also sent out a notice to its online community highlighting Obama's complaints with the law, in a tacit admission that many of the president's more ardent supporters despise the detention provisions.

"I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists," Obama said in the signing statement.

Presidents issue such statements when they feel a law conflicts with the executive's constitutional powers. Obama criticized them during the Bush administration, but has found the practice useful on a handful of occasions.

In this case, Obama argued that the changes Congress made to the bill affirm only authorities that the Bush and Obama administrations have already claimed in fighting terrorism. But he noted that the codification of those powers in law was unnecessary and perhaps harmful. And he insisted he would not use the powers to detain citizens without trial.

"I want to clarify that my administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens," Obama wrote. "Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My administration will interpret section 1021 [of the bill] in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law."

Civil liberties advocates like Romero pointed out that once the provisions are law, however, they will be available to a President Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney or any future president, who could choose to use the powers granted more aggressively.

"We are incredibly disappointed that President Obama signed this new law even though his administration had already claimed overly broad detention authority in court," said Romero. "Any hope that the Obama administration would roll back the constitutional excesses of George Bush in the war on terror was extinguished today."

Because of the provisions specifying that the new legislation does not change current law, the new law leaves the authority it grants open to interpretation and to the possibility -- albeit in very difficult circumstances -- of someone challenging a detention through the courts.

"Thankfully, we have three branches of government, and the final word belongs to the Supreme Court, which has yet to rule on the scope of detention authority," Romero said. "But Congress and the president also have a role to play in cleaning up the mess they have created, because no American citizen or anyone else should live in fear of this or any future president misusing the NDAA's detention authority."

Obama also said he will not abide by the law's requirement to detain terror suspects using the military.

"I reject any approach that would mandate military custody where law enforcement provides the best method of incapacitating a terrorist threat," Obama said. "While section 1022 is unnecessary and has the potential to create uncertainty, I have signed the bill because I believe that this section can be interpreted and applied in a manner that avoids undue harm to our current operations."

Finally, he rejected a number of other provisions, saying the White House is concerned they interfere with the president's constitutional powers and ability to fight terrorism.

"My Administration will aggressively seek to mitigate those concerns through the design of implementation procedures and other authorities available to me as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief, will oppose any attempt to extend or expand them in the future, and will seek the repeal of any provisions that undermine the policies and values that have guided my Administration throughout my time in office," Obama warned.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Jan. 31 2015,11:55 am

QUOTE

Alas, that worst-case scenario seems to be Bratton's plan. The unit, dubbed a Strategic Response Group, is "designed for dealing with events like our recent protests, or incidents like Mumbai or what just happened in Paris,” Bratton declared, giving no sign of recognizing that one of those things is unlike the others.

< View on YouTube >

QUOTE

The NYPD has a history of violently suppressing protests.

An investigation undertaken by law clinics at NYU, Fordham, Harvard, and Stanford concluded, after eight months of study, that the NYPD abused Occupy Wall Street protesters and violated their rights on numerous occasions during the 2011 protests that radiated out from Zuccotti Park. Their report is titled Suppressing Protest: Human Rights Violations in the U.S. Response to Occupy Wall Street.

In a 2012 article, I noted 14 specific allegations of abuse.

Last year, the New York Civil Liberties Union declared victory in its lengthy attempt to seek redress for some of the NYPD abuses perpetrated during protests in 2004: "New York City has agreed to pay nearly $18 million for the arrest, detention and fingerprinting of hundreds of protesters, journalists, legal observers and bystanders during the 2004 Republican National Convention – the largest protest settlement in history. The NYCLU filed the first cases following the Convention and has been central to the legal challenge to the NYPD’s actions."

When the unit trained to fight terrorists with heavy weapons is sent to face unarmed New Yorkers exercising their right to free assembly, hopefully they'll wield their machine guns more responsibly than Anthony Balonga did his pepper spray:

< http://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...1 >

Al, thank you for the lesson in posting a video!!! Thank you thank you!

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 01 2015,7:57 am

Phew!

QUOTE

A day after backlash caused when NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton said a new elite 350-member anti-terrorism unit would handle future large-scale demonstrations, police walked back the statement, saying a separate squad would handle protests.

< http://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...2098051 >

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 01 2015,2:29 pm

< http://youtu.be/FG81ptfPz7I >

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 01 2015,3:52 pm

(Liberal @ Feb. 01 2015,2:29 pm)

QUOTE

< http://youtu.be/FG81ptfPz7I >

< View on YouTube >

:laugh:

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 06 2015,11:26 am

Grassman is spot on. And why is it Moslems are making all the noise? Never hear much from the many other cultures & religions. Quakers, Bhuddists, Amish, etc deal with intolerance through the courts, not the streets.

Complaints of intolerance by american/european Moslems are based not so much on religion as on politics. Much of the middle east, north africa, west asia is soaked in blood; whether from european/american bombs; or due to internal religious war. Some Moslem immigrants bring a huge bundle of angry politics with them.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 08 2015,6:10 am

(stardust14 @ Feb. 06 2015,11:26 am)

QUOTE

All Americans have a right to their opinion if they're Christian, Muslim, Jew or whatever religion or no religion..

Most people that immigrate to the United States not only respect our wealth, they respect our right to worship any god of any religion or none..

Something not heard of in many radical right-wing countries..

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 08 2015,6:37 am

(alcitizens @ Feb. 08 2015,6:10 am)

QUOTE

(stardust14 @ Feb. 06 2015,11:26 am)

QUOTE

Wow, apparently you don't spend much time around Muslims, they EXPECT us to conform to their ways, to suspend our laws in favor of shiria. Yes there are many that, for the time being, respect our laws. I find it funny that the whiney libs think we should be tolerant their ways, even respectful, yet Muslims treat woman like second class citizens, think homosexual is an abomination and that all nonbelievers killed.

By the way Alky, what's your new avatar going to be? I've seem three versions so far.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 08 2015,6:52 am

Sharia Law in the United States? :rofl:

Do you really think Muslim Americans are that stupid? :crazy:

My Avatar was replaced with;

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 08 2015,7:07 am

(alcitizens @ Feb. 08 2015,6:52 am)

QUOTE

Sharia Law in the United States? :rofl:

Do you really think Muslim Americans are that stupid? :crazy:

My Avatar was replaced with;

Wow, you really are naive, unknowing.

Nope, your avatar is still the really gay guy.

Sorry

Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 09 2015,5:42 am

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 08 2015,6:37 am)

QUOTE

Wow, apparently you don't spend much time around Muslims, they EXPECT us to conform to their ways, to suspend our laws in favor of shiria.

The Muslims on AM radio and FOX certainly do, but I have a feeling that's not an accurate depiction. :crazy:

Turn it back to the FM dial, shut off Hannity and friends, and meet some Muslims in real life. :thumbsup:

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 09 2015,9:23 am

(irisheyes @ Feb. 09 2015,5:42 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 08 2015,6:37 am)

QUOTE

Wow, apparently you don't spend much time around Muslims, they EXPECT us to conform to their ways, to suspend our laws in favor of shiria.

The Muslims on AM radio and FOX certainly do, but I have a feeling that's not an accurate depiction. :crazy:

Turn it back to the FM dial, shut off Hannity and friends, and meet some Muslims in real life. :thumbsup:

I work with these goatf%ckers everyday, do you? A more dirty, unkept group of pigs I've never seen.
I don't listen to AM radio, I pay for Siriius but you seem to want to pull that one out of your ass every time I post something that offends you.

Jeezus IE, turn of MPR,get out and actually experience these pigs. :thumbsup:

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 09 2015,9:31 am

^What he said. Somalis eventually took over our 145-unit apartment complex in the early 2000's.

To paraphrase Will McEvoy, Worst period Neighbors period Ever period.

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 09 2015,9:32 am

In retrospect, my Japanese neighbors were awesome.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 09 2015,10:34 am

I've known many Hmong since I've move to the cities, wonderful, hardworking folks.

Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Feb. 09 2015,12:43 pm

I've met and been friends with many Muslims. Some from Somalia, some from Jordan, some from India. Some that I don't know where they came from. I briefly met two who I thought were a-holes, but the rest are wonderful people. My oldest daughter dated even dated a Muslim boy for awhile. He and his best friend spent a lot of time with our family. They were wonderful boys in every way, and much more respectful than most teenage boys I've been around.
Back when I was in my 20's, my best friend and her children moved into a low-income townhome project. Most, not all, of the people there, were...um....horrible neighbors? To put it nicely. And there wasn't a single non-white or Muslim in the whole place.

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 11 2015,2:42 am

What really irks and confounds american WASPS is when fellow americans become Muslim converts. Suddenly religious freedom is no longer.

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 11 2015,7:55 am

Can you name a convert that's mistreated? Personally one of my heroes growing up converted and he was still the greatest boxer in the world and most people couldn't tell you his name before he converted. And I've never heard of him being disrespected for his religous choice.

I knew one racist/bigot when I was kid that still called him Cassius Clay but that guy also ate popcorn with a fork so I think he might have been a little crazy.

Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 11 2015,8:12 am

(stardust14 @ Feb. 11 2015,2:42 am)

QUOTE

What really irks and confounds american WASPS is when fellow americans become Muslim converts. Suddenly religious freedom is no longer.

Where did you get this information?

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 12 2015,1:25 am

1. My statement was posted under the category "Opinion".
2. Opinion need not be substantiated by a litany of marginally credible links, even though many here demand so.
3. Opinion can be based on personal experience. Decades of local experience informed my opinion.
4. Local experience has showed bigotry /racism among many residents.
5. Until recently a large majority of locals are WASPS.

Conclusion: through MY EXPERIENCE I believe there is a high probability that more than one local WASP bigot would have a problem with american Muslim converts.

6. In the original statement there was no mention of "mistreatment".
7. The salad chefs on this site toss around questionable web-mined "facts" and counter "facts" with little success...but appear unable to digest/accept personal opinions based on real life experience. So be it.

How ironic on a thread titled "tolerance" that one's personal opinion is questioned/attacked, when shade-tree gestapo lawyers wait for a slip of the tongue, a missing preposition, and use semantics as debate---all tools used by talking head media gurus. You've learned well.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 12 2015,4:29 am

^^Salad chefs??
I think he's suffering from a major case of "butt hurt"

But that's just my opinion :blush:

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 12 2015,8:18 am

I didn't realize that it was an opinion. I guess we don't have a right to question an opinion or have an opinion of another's bigoted opinion.

Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 12 2015,9:17 am

(stardust14 @ Feb. 12 2015,1:25 am)

QUOTE

Slow down cowboy. I asked a pretty harmless question and thought you had some kind of scientific data or specific example to support your personal opinion of that group.

It's a common practice on this forum for others to ask for more details when someone gives their opinion. This is called dialogue and helps give others a better understanding of your opinion and where it is derived from. Sometimes it can get down right nasty but always remember Alcitizen and SB are actually brothers in real life so take it with a grain of salt. :rofl:

Example:
Statement: I hate the dark.
Question: Why do you hate the dark?
Answer: Because I was locked in a dark closest when I did something wrong. (not sure what movie that is from)

See? That's not so bad is it. :;):

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 12 2015,10:07 am

^^^but Mom loved me best. :rofl:

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 12 2015,3:05 pm

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 12 2015,10:07 am)

QUOTE

^^^but Mom loved me best. :rofl:

Probably because you were mostly quiet as you sat with your finger up your nose and drool running down your chin. You also didn't have any communication skills, you would just sit there with your eyes crossed and periodically grunt.. Pretty much like you are now as a grown up.. :rofl:

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 12 2015,3:15 pm

^^cronic masterbater :rofl:

Especially after the dog lost his taste for peanut butter.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 12 2015,3:23 pm

You wore a diaper until you were 16, then you started wearing panties.. :rofl:

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 12 2015,3:50 pm

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 12 2015,4:29 am)

QUOTE

I think he's suffering from a major case of "butt hurt"

Way to deflect that homoerotic fantasy theory about you.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 12 2015,8:16 pm

(Botto 82 @ Feb. 12 2015,3:50 pm)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 12 2015,4:29 am)

QUOTE

I think he's suffering from a major case of "butt hurt"

Way to deflect that homoerotic fantasy theory about you.

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 12 2015,9:32 pm

(Liberal @ Feb. 12 2015,8:18 am)

QUOTE

I didn't realize that it was an opinion. I guess we don't have a right to question an opinion or have an opinion of another's bigoted opinion.

On the contrary, the person or small group who operates this forum has the right to do anything they please:

1. Submit topics, opinion, etc
2. Allow those interested in these topics to participate.
3. Dis-allow anyone from participation.

Totally acceptable. It's the predatory methods of "dialog" that is questionable, those who stalk the forum searching for that "gotcha" moment of ego gratification; often quickly reducing conversations, issues, opinions offered by others to sewer mentallity(as commets following this will testify), causing forum participation reduction through attrition...a sort of covert censorship. Like the Trib did but with very different methods.

The circle grows small.

Your site. Do as you please.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 12 2015,9:38 pm

(Botto 82 @ Feb. 12 2015,3:50 pm)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 12 2015,4:29 am)

QUOTE

I think he's suffering from a major case of "butt hurt"

Way to deflect that homoerotic fantasy theory about you.

Chances are that this will keep him quiet for the rest of the day as he ponders on his dog licking Homoerotic fantasies..

< View on YouTube >

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 13 2015,5:14 am

^^obviously from your vast video "library"

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 13 2015,6:32 am

(stardust14 @ Feb. 12 2015,9:32 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Feb. 12 2015,8:18 am)

QUOTE

I didn't realize that it was an opinion. I guess we don't have a right to question an opinion or have an opinion of another's bigoted opinion.

In other words, why debate, when the ad hominem attack is so much handier..? :brick:

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 16 2015,10:44 pm

(Botto 82 @ Feb. 13 2015,6:32 am)

QUOTE

(stardust14 @ Feb. 12 2015,9:32 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Feb. 12 2015,8:18 am)

QUOTE

I didn't realize that it was an opinion. I guess we don't have a right to question an opinion or have an opinion of another's bigoted opinion.

In other words, why debate, when the ad hominem attack is so much handier..? :brick:

Exactly. Your abbreviated version is good. Just thought people needed to be reminded what ad hominem means.

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 16 2015,11:36 pm

What part of your post explained what ad hominem means?

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 17 2015,8:11 am

I understood what Botto and stardust were getting at.

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 17 2015,1:32 pm

Really, what part of stardust post explained what an Ad Hominen attack means? I just thought people should know what it means and figure if a smart guy like stardust was going to explain it to us we should pay attention. So what part explains it?

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 17 2015,7:34 pm

Religions have always controlled their followers with fear.. The loyal follower will be rewarded to an eternal trip to Disney Land as long as they stay in line, the non loyal will not only live in hell but will also burn in a fiery hell forever after death..

There are some Governments in the world that still control by the use of constant fear, like a Mafia organization..

Similar control is used by Gangs like these..

18th Street Gang
Almighty Latin King and Queen Nation
Asian Boyz
Black P-Stone Nation
Bloods
Crips
Florencia 13
Fresno Bulldogs
Gangster Disciples
Latin Counts
Latin Disciples
Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13)
Surenos and Nortenos
Tango Blast
Tiny Rascal Gangsters
United Blood Nation
Vice Lord Nation

< http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ocgs/gangs/street.html >

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 18 2015,4:36 am

(alcitizens @ Feb. 17 2015,7:34 pm)

QUOTE

So you're comparing Christians with low level street thugs now, wow. :dunce:

Are you marking the bottle like I suggested???

Posted by Common Citizen on Feb. 18 2015,7:58 am

(alcitizens @ Feb. 17 2015,7:34 pm)

QUOTE

Religions have always controlled their followers with fear.

You're partially correct but that's not the case with my religion...at least not the faith I grew up with and still have. Christianity actually frees one from the fear you speak of. Being free of fear doesn't mean you stop recognizing the evil in this world or lose the courage to deal with it.

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 18 2015,9:29 am

(stardust14 @ Feb. 16 2015,10:44 pm)

QUOTE

(Botto 82 @ Feb. 13 2015,6:32 am)

QUOTE

(stardust14 @ Feb. 12 2015,9:32 pm)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Feb. 12 2015,8:18 am)

QUOTE

I didn't realize that it was an opinion. I guess we don't have a right to question an opinion or have an opinion of another's bigoted opinion.

In other words, why debate, when the ad hominem attack is so much handier..? :brick:

Exactly. Your abbreviated version is good. Just thought people needed to be reminded what ad hominem means.

ad hominem

-responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments

-a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized

-abusive ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 18 2015,9:35 am

(Liberal @ Feb. 17 2015,1:32 pm)

QUOTE

The ad hominem effect here I think it's more a case of why there have been so many debaters that have left the forum over the years. Not all have left because the topics they were interested in have past, but because of a few who can't see their face when they look in the mirror.

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 18 2015,9:47 am

So when did stardust say that? Or are you just paraphrasing for him and making no sense again? It seems like a lot of conservatives use that word but I don't see a lot of them use it properly. I figured you conservatives should pay attention when such an intellectual heavyweight like stradust explains it to you

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 18 2015,10:15 am

I didn't see your earlier post where you quoted the dictionary to define Ad Hominem after you said that you understood stardust's explanation. So stardust really didn't define Ad Hominem for you it just got your attention because it's the trendy whine of the conservative nutjob these days.

It usually goes like this.
conservative: The president is a gay Muslim and Michelle is a transexual.

Sane person: You're an idiot.

Conservative: Thats just an Ad Hominem response because you can't debate the issue.

Or

Conspiracy nuts: Bush took down the twin towers using holograms of jets and a top secret thermite paint that was painted on the lower floors. And Sandy hook never happened it was just crisis actors pretending their children were killed.

Sane person: You should probably see a psychiatrist.

Conspiracy nut: You're just a shill and that's just an Ad Hominem response to distract people from the truth.

The funny thing is you obviously copy and pasted that response because like most kooks and conservatives you really didn't know what it meant when you used it.

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 18 2015,2:24 pm

Of course I copy/pasted it from your ~~libbi~~Wikipedia because I wanted to present it to you in the best way a liberal could understand it.

It's funny how you can carry a famous quote from an upstanding president like Lincoln in your signature and follow nose ringed to one like Bummer.

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 18 2015,4:31 pm

But why did you have to use wikipedia? I thought you understood it after stardust was nice enough to tell you what it means? You weren't lying were you?

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 18 2015,7:59 pm

(Liberal @ Feb. 18 2015,10:15 am)

QUOTE

It usually goes like this.
conservative: The president is a gay Muslim and Michelle is a transexual.

Sane person: You're an idiot.

Conservative: Thats just an Ad Hominem response because you can't debate the issue.

Or

Conspiracy nuts: Bush took down the twin towers using holograms of jets and a top secret thermite paint that was painted on the lower floors. And Sandy hook never happened it was just crisis actors pretending their children were killed.

Sane person: You should probably see a psychiatrist.

Conspiracy nut: You're just a shill and that's just an Ad Hominem response to distract people from the truth.

Ironic that both of the "sane person's" responses in your straw man arguments are, in effect, ad hominem attacks.

Are you sure you know what the term means?

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 18 2015,8:54 pm

Where did I say they weren't?

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 18 2015,9:39 pm

(Common Citizen @ Feb. 18 2015,7:58 am)

QUOTE

(alcitizens @ Feb. 17 2015,7:34 pm)

QUOTE

Religions have always controlled their followers with fear.

The Catholic Pope makes women feel like they will go to hell for the sin of using birth control..

If any family member chooses to no longer follow the Jehovah Witness teachings, they are no longer a family member and will not be chosen to live in heaven on earth.

These are both Christian faiths..

Gang member tattoo:
< http://idahogangs.com/knowledge/generic-identifiers/ >

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 19 2015,12:57 am

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 18 2015,4:36 am)

QUOTE

So you're comparing Christians with low level street thugs now, wow. :dunce:

Are you marking the bottle like I suggested???

Fear based Religions

< https://www.google.com/search?...ligions >

Fear based Gangs

< https://www.google.com/search?...e=UTF-8 >

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 19 2015,7:48 am

(alcitizens @ Feb. 19 2015,12:57 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 18 2015,4:36 am)

QUOTE

So you're comparing Christians with low level street thugs now, wow. :dunce:

Are you marking the bottle like I suggested???

Fear based Religions

< https://www.google.com/search?...ligions >

Fear based Gangs

< https://www.google.com/search?...e=UTF-8 >

Your list was incomplete, you forgot one, one of the worst. They brow beat, they use the media, they blacklist. All in order to promote their beliefs.

Democrat liberals.

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 19 2015,9:04 am

(Liberal @ Feb. 18 2015,4:31 pm)

QUOTE

But why did you have to use wikipedia?

So the liberal mind could more easily understand it.

Posted by grassman on Feb. 19 2015,1:33 pm

Really, tell us more!! :popcorn:

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 19 2015,11:31 pm

< View on YouTube >

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 20 2015,1:52 am

For those on this site who know one another personally ad hominem attacks upon one another are then possible. I know no one here personally. All that is known is by comments, which proves nothing of a person's real character. Comments could be completely ficticious, reflecting nothing upon a person's real life acts.

Labeling in order to persuade, based on witnessed acts of another, can be a form of ad hominem. On this site I've been labeled both "conservative" and "liberal". But neither label is ad hominem since no one here knows my true character or life experience. Hence the contradictory labels.

Let's say I witness a friend drunk 90% of the time. At one point we debate politics. In that debate I attempt to discredit his argument based on his drinking habit. That's ad hominem.

In the end some attacks upon others' character here are ad hominem, some are not for resons explained. But it's those baseless attacks upon character--when the accuser knows nearly nothing of the accused---that come into question. How can someone question character they know nothing of??

Peace out.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 20 2015,2:35 am

Most on this site don't know any of the others personally, few reveal their real name..

Does your email address reveal your identity?
Good to see that you are learning how to take it before you start dishing it out.. :help:

Are you a man or a woman? Women seem to be more sensitive around here.. Don't take everything so personal around here.. I've learned over the years that someone will disagree with your opinion if you don't have legitimate facts to back it up.. WND does not cut it.. Just ask Maddog..

I have this feeling that if Liberal was offered around $30,000 cash for this site, he might just sell.. :dunno:

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 20 2015,8:25 am

Nice pie in the face.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 20 2015,10:06 am

Let's be careful about pie in the face, it's all fun and games till someone wants their carpet stretched.

Posted by grassman on Feb. 21 2015,7:00 am

Here we go again...if you wants to make her happy, ya gots to stretch here carpet! :laugh:

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 21 2015,11:55 am

I think I'm finding that liberals as a whole must have more tolerance. Now that doesn't include that left nut looneys that attack through name-calling and those who feebly attack the debater not the debate. I'm talking about the ones who calmly sit and watch the network news in the evening and read the liberal writings of one sided painted smiles in the morning paper.

These poor patience ~~fools~~ liberals only get one side of the news and are shielded from any conflict or morality. Yep, I think most liberals are the more tolerant. They sit and home on the sofa or on a stool at the coffee shop and patiently wait for things like obamacare to get better. They watch Brian Williams on the news and believe everything will get better in Middle East. They tolerate the mass killings by ISIL or Al Qaeda because their are told there are just misunderstood muslims who just need a job or a better education to get out of poverty and crime.

Liberals must be more tolerant to be able to cope with people who steal their tax dollars to throw big parties and give raises to fellow tax cheats. They must have patience to be able to sit on their hands while ambassadors are killed and U.S. embassies over taken. They must have to bite their lower lips as fellow allies are burned alive in a cage or Egyptians "citizens" are lined up and beheaded simultaneously because their were never offered economic security.

Yep, I think sometimes liberals are more tolerant. :sarcasm:

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 21 2015,1:33 pm

The mythos of a liberal media really needs to go away. Media outlets are sponsored by corporations that buy ads during programming. Do you think supposedly-liberal CNN is going to break a story about price fixing at a giant pharmaceutical like Merck? I don't. For that matter, I don't see FOXNews breaking that story, either. Nobody wants to be the first in line to lose that kind of potential ad revenue. (The last time I looked at an ABCAnet rundown for ABC's World News, 75 percent of the spots in the breaks were for Big Pharma.)

Similarly, I've witnessed local news outlets back away from revenue-defeating stories. When McCourtesy Corp. bought the two Austin McDonald's restaurants, and immediately laid off a hundred or so workers, KAAL sent Dan Conradt to investigate. The report Dan filed, complete with sad stories from displaced workers, each one sadder than the last, McCourtesy Corp. didn't look so good. Within minutes, McCourtesy had made a phone call, and a few minutes after that, KAAL killed its own story. It never saw air on the 6:00 or 10:00 news, and no reference to it was ever made on the website. I wonder what McCourtesy threatened that little TV station with?

My point? I have a hard time calling a news outlet "liberal" when any one of them can be bullied into conforming to the sanctity of its sponsors' respective images. If a news outlet is truly liberal, it would go after graft and corruption and dishonesty and injustice no matter where they found it, not based on the fears of the sales department.

That said, I'm a little amazed Boone ran < this not-so-friendly-to-Hormel piece >.

(The above link will not work unless you remove the break character from the address window in your browser. Some kind of word-wrap thing with iKonboard...

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 21 2015,2:55 pm

It's almost like they live in an alternate reality.

< http://www.politifact.com/truth-o...e-oblig >

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 22 2015,1:14 am

^^ Reality or propaganda? I think I'll stick with the sources that have served me well.

< http://www.forbes.com/sites...te-12-6 >

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 22 2015,5:21 am

This morning I wake up to this news

< http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/21/us/al-shabaab-calls-for-mall-attacks/ >

I try to stay away from that place but when I do go in there I always have a good luck charm with me

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 22 2015,8:41 am

QUOTE

“Labor participation is affected much less by short-term job creation, and much more by long-term demographic trends. As this chart from the BLS shows, as the Baby Boomers entered the workforce and societal acceptance of women working changed, labor participation grew.

“Now that ‘Boomers’ are retiring we are seeing the percentage of those seeking employment decline. This has nothing to do with job availability, and everything to do with a highly predictable aging demographic.

“What’s now clear is that the Obama administration policies have outperformed the Reagan administration policies for job creation and unemployment reduction. Even though Reagan had the benefit of a growing Boomer class to ignite economic growth, while Obama has been forced to deal with a retiring workforce developing special needs. During the eight years preceding Obama there was a net reduction in jobs in America. We now are rapidly moving toward higher, sustainable jobs growth.”

< http://www.forbes.com/sites...vesting >

Posted by grassman on Feb. 22 2015,9:31 am

Nice try Lib, still some will turn it out to be lies and fixxed numbers. He has the wrong name, the wrong color and the wrong Party. Some just won't face it.

Posted by alcitizens on Feb. 22 2015,9:34 am

Obama Outperforms Reagan On Jobs, Growth And Investing

< http://www.forbes.com/sites...vesting >

Posted by Liberal on Feb. 22 2015,11:58 am

(grassman @ Feb. 22 2015,9:31 am)

QUOTE

Nice try Lib, still some will turn it out to be lies and fixxed numbers. He has the wrong name, the wrong color and the wrong Party. Some just won't face it.

Mostly wrong party. They did the same thing with Clinton and it didn't fool anyone then either.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 22 2015,2:09 pm

^^Clinton actually didn't do too bad a job, for the most part he knew not to screw with the .com bubble and rode it to the end of his 2nd term

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 24 2015,4:20 am

Back to the subject

< http://news.investors.com/ibd-edi...?p=full >

Posted by grassman on Feb. 24 2015,6:03 am

This is where it just really pisses me off. We continue to bring all of these people here. We are bringing their problems here, is what we are doing. Look at history, most different nationalities set up their own little country here. Little Havana, China town, Little Saigon, and so forth. Some have been here for forty years and cannot speak English. That just doesn't work, yet the Govt. is to proud to realize and admit it. They had wars in their homeland and now it's coming here. Now we, as Americans, are slowly giving up our rights for national security. Eventually, this country will be at war with itself. :oops:

I think it all ready is. :angry:

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 24 2015,7:42 am

^^^ so is NE Mpls going to become little Mogidiscu?

Maybe Rochester?

Posted by Botto 82 on Feb. 24 2015,8:49 am

You have to be asking yourself, "Why do we do this, then act all surprised when the worst happens?"

~~Pawlenty~~ Governor Ferret Face imported all those Somalis (Why?) and now Minneapolis is al-Shabbab HQ.

It's as though someone wants to bring the war to our soil.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 24 2015,8:54 am

^^war brings change.

Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 24 2015,2:51 pm

(MADDOG @ Feb. 21 2015,11:55 am)

QUOTE

They tolerate the mass killings by ISIL or Al Qaeda because their are told there are just misunderstood muslims who just need a job or a better education to get out of poverty and crime.

That's one interpretation, but personally I don't think the liberals sitting at Starbucks sipping espresso have anymore control over violent attacks in the middle east than earthquakes or meteors. Violence is going to happen somewhere in the world, no matter how many drone strikes or wars we start.

QUOTE

They must have patience to be able to sit on their hands while ambassadors are killed and U.S. embassies over taken.

One President lost four in Libya, another lost a few thousand on U.S. soil while reading a book to kids in Florida. Main difference (besides the death toll and locations) is one was a "D" the other an "R". I still don't know why the first President would actually receive a huge boost to his approval ratings for "sitting on his hands", while the other is blamed for the attack.

Is it because of the coffee shops we go to? The soy milk or the gluten-free latte? :sarcasm:

Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 24 2015,2:58 pm

(Self-Banished @ Feb. 22 2015,5:21 am)

QUOTE

< http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/21/us/al-shabaab-calls-for-mall-attacks/ >

I try to stay away from that place but when I do go in there I always have a good luck charm with me

Luck charm? It's not that bargain gun from the Ottomon Empire, is it?

^ Just kidding, I looked it up and looks like a decent pistol.

Posted by Self-Banished on Feb. 24 2015,6:29 pm

^^some of the best stuff is made over seas
Springfield-Croatia
Glock-Austria
CZ-Czechoslovakia
The Chinese really make some great firearms, one just has to get over the stigma of "made in China"

I like my latte with whole milk thank you

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 25 2015,10:07 am

(irisheyes @ Feb. 24 2015,2:51 pm)

QUOTE

They must have patience to be able to sit on their hands while ambassadors are killed and U.S. embassies over taken.

I didn't say that Bummer was to blame for Benghazi, although, ...naw.

If there is blame to be laid, the burden of guilt would be more lain on the State Department for failure to foresee eminent danger and failure to reinforce the requests to fortify.

QUOTE

One President lost four in Libya, another lost a few thousand on U.S. soil while reading a book to kids in Florida.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we saw 9/11 coming, but with Benghazi, we were essentially < warned days earlier >things could erupt.

QUOTE

Main difference (besides the death toll and locations) is one was a "D" the other an "R".

The main difference was that one addressed the nation and went after the bast*rds that did it (right, wrong) and one went back to sleep. One went after those who killed Americans and the other after an American was beheaded went golfing.

One said “Islamic terrorists’” aim is to seize power in Iraq, and use it as a safe haven to launch attacks against America and the world” the other hijacks the National Day of Prayer to call modern Christians medieval Crusaders and can't even acknowledge the Coptic Christians beheaded.

Bummer is no friend to Christians, he's more a son of a jackal.

Posted by stardust14 on Feb. 27 2015,7:18 pm

(MADDOG @ Feb. 21 2015,11:55 am)

QUOTE

Extract the word "liberal" and insert "american". No need for exclusion.

Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 28 2015,9:13 am

Like this?

QUOTE

I think I'm finding that ~~liberals~~ Americans as a whole must have more tolerance. Now that doesn't include that left nut looneys that attack through name-calling and those who feebly attack the debater not the debate. I'm talking about the ones who calmly sit and watch the network news in the evening and read the ~~liberal~~ Americans writings of one sided painted smiles in the morning paper.

These poor patience fool ~~liberals~~ Americans only get one side of the news and are shielded from any conflict or morality. Yep, I think most ~~liberals~~ Americans are the more tolerant. They sit and home on the sofa or on a stool at the coffee shop and patiently wait for things like obamacare to get better. They watch Brian Williams on the news and believe everything will get better in Middle East. They tolerate the mass killings by ISIL or Al Qaeda because their are told there are just misunderstood muslims who just need a job or a better education to get out of poverty and crime.

~~Liberals~~ Americans must be more tolerant to be able to cope with people who steal their tax dollars to throw big parties and give raises to fellow tax cheats. They must have patience to be able to sit on their hands while ambassadors are killed and U.S. embassies over taken. They must have to bite their lower lips as fellow allies are burned alive in a cage or Egyptians "citizens" are lined up and beheaded simultaneously because their were never offered economic security.

Yep, I think sometimes ~~liberals~~ Americans are more tolerant.

I guess I can mostly go with that.

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 02 2015,10:29 pm

QUOTE

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we saw 9/11 coming, but with Benghazi, we were essentially warned days earlier things could erupt.

WASHINGTON, April 9— President Bush was told more than a month before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, that supporters of Osama bin Laden planned an attack within the United States with explosives and wanted to hijack airplanes, a government official said Friday.

The warning came in a secret briefing that Mr. Bush received at his ranch in Crawford, Tex., on Aug. 6, 2001. A report by a joint Congressional committee last year alluded to a ''closely held intelligence report'' that month about the threat of an attack by Al Qaeda, and the official confirmed an account by The Associated Press on Friday saying that the report was in fact part of the president's briefing in Crawford.

< http://www.nytimes.com/2004...ns.html >

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 03 2015,9:07 am

O.K., pick a plane.

QUOTE

"On any given day, more than 87,000 flights are in the skies in the United States. Only one-third are commercial carriers, like American, United or Southwest. On an average day, air traffic controllers handle 28,537 commercial flights (major and regional airlines), 27,178 general aviation flights (private planes), 24,548 air taxi flights (planes for hire), 5,260 military flights and 2,148 air cargo flights (Federal Express, UPS, etc.). At any given moment, roughly 5,000 planes are in the skies above the United States. In one year, controllers handle an average of 64 million takeoffs and landings." - From the National Air Traffic Controllers Association

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 03 2015,10:41 am

Pick an embassy. :dunce:

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 03 2015,11:12 am

You do mean an embassy where Ambassador Stevens was right?

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 03 2015,11:57 am

No I mean pick an embassy.

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 03 2015,12:05 pm

And last I heard the Christians were responsible for the crusades. :crazy:

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 03 2015,12:54 pm

According to the liar Obama called modern Christians crusaders. Here's his actual quote for those that can read and don't get their news from talk radio and Iowa farmers.

QUOTE

Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

I thought real Christians didn't lie?

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 03 2015,12:54 pm

[B]According to the liar Obama called modern Christians crusaders. Here's his actual quote for those that can read and don't get their news from talk radio and Iowa farmers.

QUOTE

I thought real Christians didn't lie?

Posted by Self-Banished on Mar. 03 2015,2:15 pm

^^epilepsy??

Posted by Botto 82 on Mar. 03 2015,3:09 pm

(Liberal @ Mar. 03 2015,12:54 pm)

QUOTE

[B]According to the liar Obama called modern Christians crusaders. Here's his actual quote for those that can read and don't get their news from talk radio and Iowa farmers.

QUOTE

I thought real Christians didn't lie?

That they would bring up atrocities from millennia ago and try to make them somehow relevant to this discussion speaks volumes...

Posted by Expatriate on Mar. 03 2015,3:22 pm

The crusades have merely changed to empire building under the false piety of freedom.

Posted by Expatriate on Mar. 04 2015,8:10 am

< View on YouTube >

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 04 2015,9:34 am

(Liberal @ Mar. 03 2015,11:57 am)

QUOTE

No I mean pick an embassy.

I did.

< Libya: We gave US three-day warning of Benghazi attack >

QUOTE

American diplomats were warned of possible violent unrest in Benghazi three days before the killings of US Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three members of his team, Libyan security officials say.

The claim came as the country's interim President, Mohammed el-Megarif, said his government had information that the attack on the US consulate had been planned by an Islamist group with links to al-Qa'ida and with foreigners taking part.

Posted by Self-Banished on Mar. 04 2015,9:35 am

Expat dropped a lot of acid when he was young, didn't he? :crazy:

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 04 2015,3:27 pm

(MADDOG @ Mar. 04 2015,9:34 am)

QUOTE

(Liberal @ Mar. 03 2015,11:57 am)

QUOTE

No I mean pick an embassy.

I did.

< Libya: We gave US three-day warning of Benghazi attack >

QUOTE

Nice try but you're lying. There was a warning about violence not about an embassy.

Lying comes easy for some Christians

QUOTE

Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 05 2015,8:33 am

I don't know what part you think I'm lying about? Posting a link to the Independent?

You are not being successful trying to knock down my faith. Myself and most Christians know the danger of the tongue. We are reminded repeatedly in the New Testament.

Your attack on me and my faith will not waiver.

Indeed, all who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. -Apostle Paul

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 05 2015,9:20 am

I don't care what religion you claim to be, but you're no Christian, just another poser.

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 05 2015,11:04 am

(Liberal @ Mar. 05 2015,9:20 am)

QUOTE

I don't care what religion you claim to be, but you're no Christian, just another poser.

Thank you.

Posted by Expatriate on Mar. 05 2015,11:44 am

(Self-Banished @ Mar. 04 2015,9:35 am)

QUOTE

Expat dropped a lot of acid when he was young, didn't he? :crazy:

If that had been the case I’d be driving a truck today and hobnobbing with the Somalis.

Posted by Self-Banished on Mar. 05 2015,1:58 pm

(Expatriate @ Mar. 05 2015,11:44 am)

QUOTE

(Self-Banished @ Mar. 04 2015,9:35 am)

QUOTE

Expat dropped a lot of acid when he was young, didn't he? :crazy:

If that had been the case I’d be driving a truck today and hobnobbing with the Somalis.

So you're just crazy in a retard sort of way??

Posted by alcitizens on Mar. 05 2015,2:52 pm

(MADDOG @ Mar. 05 2015,8:33 am)

QUOTE

The US Consulate in Benghazi is not a US Embassy.. The two are very different..

< http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/embassy.htm >

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 05 2015,3:14 pm

QUOTE

The US Consulate in Benghazi

Or a CIA installation.

Posted by Liberal on Mar. 05 2015,3:40 pm

So you think Obama should have known a cia asset would be attacked based on one guy in Libya saying something about the situation could erupt. And Bush had no warning of 9-11 even though Richard Clarke's PDB gave him everything but the flight number?

If you're not a liar, you're an idiot.

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 05 2015,4:18 pm

Some things are just not worth it. You're one of them.