Topic: Who votes !
started by: Santorini
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 15 2012,10:56 am
Some interesting stats from the last election:Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
hmmm
Kinda speaks for itself as to the education, problem-solving skills, critical-thinking skills, abstract thinking ability of those that voted for Obama. Some of the poor and uneducated are typically more desperate and easier to manipulate. Another question:
Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 15 2012,11:03 am
Just goes to prove that if you put out a free buffet, everybody comes!
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 15 2012,2:34 pm
63% did not attend high school? Really, how many people in the US did not attend high school?2011 data US Census Bureau, ages 25 and older have attained:
HS diploma 87.58%
some college 56.88%
BA/BS degree 30.44%
MA/MS degree 7.95%
Doctorate/Professional degree 3.00%
Est. US population 2011: 311,591,917
Est. US population 18 years & older: 223,500,000
Est. US population <18: 77,900,000
population w/o high school diploma = 28,000,000
population w/hs diploma or higher = 195,500,000
2008 election
Obama = 69,456,897
McCain = 59,934,814
63% of 69.5 million = 43.7 million
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp...your posted numbers do not compute
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 15 2012,3:49 pm
^ Don't be silly, your letting the facts get in the way of a good story!
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 15 2012,6:03 pm
73%, you say, who voted for BO made less than $15,000 year. So there must be roughly 73% x 69,000,000 votes = 50,000,000 poverty stricken voters.
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 15 2012,6:56 pm
^ If the Republicans had their way there would be 100 million.
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 15 2012,7:40 pm
Hey Santoony, is that the fuzzy math system you’re using?
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 16 2012,3:20 am
(Santorini @ Aug. 15 2012,10:56 am)
QUOTE
Some interesting stats from the last election:
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
hmmm Kinda speaks for itself as to the education, problem-solving skills, critical-thinking skills, abstract thinking ability of those that voted for Obama. Some of the poor and uneducated are typically more desperate and easier to manipulate.
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
hmmm
Kinda speaks for itself as to the education, problem-solving skills, critical-thinking skills, abstract thinking ability of those that voted for Obama. Some of the poor and uneducated are typically more desperate and easier to manipulate.I could ask you to backup your stats with a link of some sort, but I've given up on trying to get a credible source from you or the Breeze.
I've said before (and I can back it up) that the demographics always point to the highly educated being overwhelmingly democrat. Santorini will differ, but then again if she ever posted her sources they're almost always forwarded emails or right-wing blogs.
< CNN exit polling of over 13,000 respondants >
<
>The "no-high school" demographic is hardly reliable considering it's only 3% of voters. In the above poll college educated are both 49% so even among dem and repub, higher educated than that is when people start voting republican less and less. People who hold a Ph.D are some of the least likely people EVER to vote republican.
< 2008 Gallup polling is similar. > The HIGHEST educated group (postgrad) voted for Obama at a rate of 65%, a mere 35% of that same group voted for McCain.
Conservatives will probably not like any source that isn't conservative in nature, so I'll include < The Wall Street Journal >, you'll notice the remark on the right side of the page next to their poll results stating: "Republicans were strongest among voters who were well - but not too well -- educated."
QUOTE
Just goes to prove that if you put out a free buffet, everybody comes!
Hardly, a simple look at the red versus blue states map always shows that states who get more money from the government (poor states) vote republican. States that are higher earners in aggregate vote democrat.
Both sides love government spending, it's the republicans that convinced themselves that we can have spending and somehow not have to have to pay taxes. They think voodoo economics will somehow even things out eventually. But its been about 30 years and four wars later, I gotta tell you, it's not going to happen.
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 16 2012,9:38 am
20+ years of US warfare in the middle east without raising taxes or reducing spending, it was all done on "credit." 
Irish is right, imho, regarding voodoo economics.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 16 2012,12:08 pm
Yes indeed, it started with Roosevelt and continued on through about every prez we've had, I especially like Johnson'smgreat society.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 16 2012,12:14 pm
(Expatriate @ Aug. 15 2012,7:40 pm)
QUOTE
Hey Santoony, is that the fuzzy math system you’re using?
not my fault the calculations are over your head!!!
you voted for obama...proves my original point
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 16 2012,12:43 pm
^^You’re a true idiot, you’ve spent your entire adult life drawing Government Welfare (disability) now that you’re a widow I’m sure you’ve applied for that pension, yet you don’t see yourself as the problem!Perhaps you should listen to the Ayn Rand tripe you spout get a REAL job and get your lazy butt off the Taxpayer's back!!
It amazing Just how many of these hardcore Republicans on this forum are on the Government Dole and don’t see themselves as a burden on those of US who actually WORK!!
Posted by concerned on Aug. 16 2012,12:53 pm
A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very interestingstatistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health
Organization.
Percentage of men and women who survived cancer five years after diagnosis:
U.S. ...... 65%
England ...... 46%
Canada ... 42%
Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment
within six months:
U.S. ...... 93%
England ...... 15%
Canada ... 43%
Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
U.S. ...... 90%
England ...... 15%
Canada ... 43%
Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
U.S. ...... 77%
England ...... 40%
Canada ... 43%
Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
U.S. ...... 71
England ...... 14
Canada ... 18
Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in
"excellent health":
U.S. ...... 12%
England ...... 02%
Canada ... 06%
And now for the last statistic: National Health Insurance?
U.S. ...... NO
England ...... YES
Canada ... YES
Check this last set of statistics: The percentage of each past
president's cabinet who had worked in the private business sector
prior to their appointment to the cabinet. (You know that the private
business sector is a real-life business, not a government job.) Here
are the percentages.
T. Roosevelt... 38%
Taft...... 40%
Wilson ... 52%
Harding...... 49%
Coolidge...... 48%
Hoover ... 42%
F. Roosevelt...... 50%
Truman...... 50%
Eisenhower...... 57%
Kennedy... 30%
Johnson...... 47%
Nixon.... 53%
Ford...... 42%
Carter.... 32%
Reagan... 56%
G. H. Bush... 51%
Clinton ... 39%
G. W. Bush...... 55%
Obama... 08%
This helps to explain the incompetence of this administration: only
8% of them have ever worked in private business! That's right! Only
eight percent; the least, by far, of the last 19 presidents! And
these people are trying to tell our big corporations how to run their
business?
How can the president of a major nation and society, the one with the
most successful economic system in world history, stand and talk about
business when he's never worked for one? Or about jobs when he has
never really had one? And when it's the same for 92% of his senior
staff and closest advisers? They've spent most of their time in
academia, government and/or non-profit jobs or as "community
organizers”. They should have been in an employment line.
Pass this on because we'll NEVER see these facts in the main stream media.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 16 2012,1:10 pm
Irish Eyes...you are so incredibly predictable; as are most left-spinners!!! the only credible sources are your sources yea, if you are easily manipulated and simple-minded!!! Left-spinners have long ago quit reporting accurate actual news and stats and have resorted to obamas chicago-style tactics of manipulation, chiseling and gouging the facts and replacing them with metaphors in hope that the simple-minded can more easily follow along
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 16 2012,1:12 pm
(Expatriate @ Aug. 16 2012,12:43 pm)
QUOTE
^^You’re a true idiot, you’ve spent your entire adult life drawing Government Welfare (disability) now that you’re a widow I’m sure you’ve applied for that pension, yet you don’t see yourself as the problem!
Perhaps you should listen to the Ayn Rand tripe you spout get a REAL job and get your lazy butt off the Taxpayer's back!!
It amazing Just how many of these hardcore Republicans on this forum are on the Government Dole and don’t see themselves as a burden on those of US who actually WORK!!
Perhaps you should listen to the Ayn Rand tripe you spout get a REAL job and get your lazy butt off the Taxpayer's back!!
It amazing Just how many of these hardcore Republicans on this forum are on the Government Dole and don’t see themselves as a burden on those of US who actually WORK!!
oh...how uninformed you are!
rest my case with my stats about those of you who voted for obama...you proved my point
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 17 2012,7:22 am
@ SantoonyWhy would I vote Republican, they’re totally anti-worker, their deregulation of worker’s rights and anti-union policy are well known to those of US who actually watch the legislation these Bozos try to push on the public!
This country was founded by a group of wealthy plantation owners who depended upon servitude to increase their wealth if not for the Trade Labor Union Movement the majority of US would still be in servitude!
You told us your husband spent 10,000 hours volunteering at the VA, by that you mean he was driving the VA van..If he was able to drive that van he could have drove a truck or a bus and made an honest living,
there’s far too many of you folks on the sick, lame and lazy gang that think the world owes you a living.. But for you to come here criticize union workers or teachers people who have been taxed to pay your way on a trip to the Greek Islands and London really takes the cake!!!
Posted by concerned on Aug. 17 2012,9:16 am
Obama is very good at what he does, and no one can dispute that. The problem is that what he does is the same thing they train Judas goats for.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 17 2012,9:17 am
For expat. Sick, lame, lazy people? You mean union workers like you??? 
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 17 2012,9:22 am
^^^Your day will come scab... 
I wonder how you’ll feel about the GOP when they let the Mexican truck lines and drivers run the US roads for pesos...
Posted by concerned on Aug. 17 2012,9:37 am
Expatriate I don't know why you would vote republican, but I will in an effort to ensure a secure future for my grandchildren including, but not limited to freedoms as defined by the constitution. We have distributed so much fake money under this administration that our great, great, great grandchildren are going to say wtf were they thinking. By the way the VA driver you chastised was a good man an should not posthumusly fall victim to your political views. Oh, respect for others is another reason I can put on my list for voting republican.
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 17 2012,9:58 am
QUOTE
Expatriate I don't know why you would vote republican, but I will in an effort to ensure a secure future for my grandchildren including, but not limited to freedoms as defined by the constitution. We have distributed so much fake money under this administration that our great, great, great grandchildren are going to say wtf were they thinking. By the way the VA driver you chastised was a good man an should not posthumusly fall victim to your political views. Oh, respect for others is another reason I can put on my list for voting republican.
@ concernedThe majority of the debt incurred by this administration was the product of the unfunded Bush wars and the economic collapse (bailout) brought about by eight years of failed tax cut Republican policy...
Your defense of freeloaders makes me think your more than likely one of them...There’s way too many people who have finagled their way onto Government disability whether it be V.A., or Social Security...
Posted by concerned on Aug. 17 2012,11:07 am
I my friend am 45 years old and started working full time at the age of 15. Yes I did graduate. I have been with my current employer for 23 years, my wife works 50+ hours per week. The one you call a free loader served in our armed forces and I would rather support him for lifer than give the baby factories, jail birds, or illegal aliens a single penny. Obama and gang are about nothing but entitlements. Other than that I do truly value and cherish your opinion.
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 17 2012,11:35 am
I’m 62 years of age, drafted into the Army 1969..I hold a position with a Utility, that’s right I make real money and pay % tax higher then Romney..there’s a lot of Veterans scamming the system there’s a lot of people scamming the Social Security Disability system..
What really pisses me off is when someone on the Government Dole like Santoony comes here talks all the self-reliance dogma
when in actuality her whole life has been financed by our tax dollars..
Did this Veteran have a combat related injury NO he didn’t even serve in combat. Could he work, he could make babies more mouths to feed,
he could drive the VA van why can’t he drive a cab or a bus, truck etc. there’s your entitlement..
Posted by concerned on Aug. 17 2012,12:58 pm
Then should we pay someone to drive the van? military service members wounded in duty or not should have the best care available. I do believe the person in question actually inlisted voluntarily. I was not in the service, I tried to enlist in 1984 but was rejected due to asthma. My dad and two of his brothers served in world war 2 one was shot in north africa, one was in france, and on was in Okinawa, another uncle was the Korean conflict, one cousin was paralyzed in Vietnam all but one of these have since died. None of them ever recieved care even close to the quality that this administration proposes we owe illegal immigrants, and none of them whined about it. I also know it to be fact that all but one of them were republican. I believe we should not only welcome but encourage immigrants, but legal ones. There are good and bad poiticians on bothe sides of the fence, but I truly believe that the only agenda this administration has regarding low income and illegal imigrant is to try to buy votes and in the process we are eliminating opportunities for our own citizens. The don't give a damn about the common person.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 17 2012,3:33 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 17 2012,9:17 am)
QUOTE
For expat. Sick, lame, lazy people? You mean union workers like you???
More anti-union whining from our resident "independent lone wolf" glorified delivery boy. A truck driver calling anyone sick, lame, and lazy is the height of hipocrisy.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 17 2012,7:08 pm
(Expatriate @ Aug. 17 2012,9:22 am)
QUOTE
^^^Your day will come scab...
I wonder how you’ll feel about the GOP when they let the Mexican truck lines and drivers run the US roads for pesos...
I wonder how you’ll feel about the GOP when they let the Mexican truck lines and drivers run the US roads for pesos...
Ooh! Scab! Wish I had a nickel for every time that word has been screamed at me
I'm up to my eyeballs in Somali drivers right now, Mexican boys aren't far behind yet I seem to be greeting more premium customers because they long for SERVICE! And I give this to them.
Wonder how you and your family will feel when your car has been flatten by a Somali driven truck who was paying more at tension to his phone than the road.
GOP, jeezus,
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 17 2012,7:10 pm
^^^go load my truck bitch
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 17 2012,7:50 pm
^ Sorry, daycabber, I'm on my union mandated break! I'll get to it sometime. Good luck making your appointment, oh your out of hours, well have fun sleeping in our drop lot. 
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 17 2012,8:35 pm
tension = stress, tight
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 17 2012,8:41 pm
(Moparman @ Aug. 17 2012,7:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ Sorry, daycabber, I'm on my union mandated break! I'll get to it sometime. Good luck making your appointment, oh your out of hours, well have fun sleeping in our drop lot.
Oh God, here we go again
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 18 2012,6:46 am
(Santorini @ Aug. 16 2012,1:10 pm)
QUOTE
Irish Eyes...you are so incredibly predictable; as are most left-spinners!!! the only credible sources are your sources yea, if you are easily manipulated and simple-minded!!!
Left-spinners have long ago quit reporting accurate actual news and stats and have resorted to obamas chicago-style tactics of manipulation, chiseling and gouging the facts and replacing them with metaphors in hope that the simple-minded can more easily follow along
yea, if you are easily manipulated and simple-minded!!! Left-spinners have long ago quit reporting accurate actual news and stats and have resorted to obamas chicago-style tactics of manipulation, chiseling and gouging the facts and replacing them with metaphors in hope that the simple-minded can more easily follow along
I've cited the Wall Street Journal (that's hardly a "left-spinning" source), CNN, and Gallup. You've cited NOTHING, I Googled your stats and it comes right back to this topic because nobody else is using those numbers.
As some point while training for your advanced science degree you must've had to learn about academic sources and making a bibliography. Put up or shut up, instead of complaining about a vast conspiracy just show where you get your numbers and info.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 18 2012,10:20 am
(Expatriate @ Aug. 17 2012,7:22 am)
QUOTE
@ Santoony
Why would I vote Republican, they’re totally anti-worker, their deregulation of worker’s rights and anti-union policy are well known to those of US who actually watch the legislation these Bozos try to push on the public!
This country was founded by a group of wealthy plantation owners who depended upon servitude to increase their wealth if not for the Trade Labor Union Movement the majority of US would still be in servitude!
You told us your husband spent 10,000 hours volunteering at the VA, by that you mean he was driving the VA van..If he was able to drive that van he could have drove a truck or a bus and made an honest living,
there’s far too many of you folks on the sick, lame and lazy gang that think the world owes you a living.. But for you to come here criticize union workers or teachers people who have been taxed to pay your way on a trip to the Greek Islands and London really takes the cake!!!
Why would I vote Republican, they’re totally anti-worker, their deregulation of worker’s rights and anti-union policy are well known to those of US who actually watch the legislation these Bozos try to push on the public!
This country was founded by a group of wealthy plantation owners who depended upon servitude to increase their wealth if not for the Trade Labor Union Movement the majority of US would still be in servitude!
You told us your husband spent 10,000 hours volunteering at the VA, by that you mean he was driving the VA van..If he was able to drive that van he could have drove a truck or a bus and made an honest living,
there’s far too many of you folks on the sick, lame and lazy gang that think the world owes you a living.. But for you to come here criticize union workers or teachers people who have been taxed to pay your way on a trip to the Greek Islands and London really takes the cake!!!
correction; my typo fault...
over 20,000 volunteer hours! YOU are the true uninformed idiot here! Counties in MN have paid volunteers. IT IS THEIR JOB! Some counties pay drivers and take taxes out, others the drivers are considered self-employed and pay self-employment taxes. Cant get much more honest than that
The actual volunteer hours come from the actual volunteer work at the Mpls. VA hospital. And yea..I did travel the world...alot...a benefit from my working 3 jobs at a time!! (including self-employ status and we all know how much more in taxes self-employ pays...we had our own business!!) Dont be so eager to jump on the obamas-speculate-and-speak-before-knowing-the-facts train...it speaks to your factory-gossip mentality!!
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 18 2012,10:30 am
(irisheyes @ Aug. 18 2012,6:46 am)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Aug. 16 2012,1:10 pm)
QUOTE
Irish Eyes...you are so incredibly predictable; as are most left-spinners!!! the only credible sources are your sources yea, if you are easily manipulated and simple-minded!!!
Left-spinners have long ago quit reporting accurate actual news and stats and have resorted to obamas chicago-style tactics of manipulation, chiseling and gouging the facts and replacing them with metaphors in hope that the simple-minded can more easily follow along
yea, if you are easily manipulated and simple-minded!!! Left-spinners have long ago quit reporting accurate actual news and stats and have resorted to obamas chicago-style tactics of manipulation, chiseling and gouging the facts and replacing them with metaphors in hope that the simple-minded can more easily follow along
I've cited the Wall Street Journal (that's hardly a "left-spinning" source), CNN, and Gallup. You've cited NOTHING, I Googled your stats and it comes right back to this topic because nobody else is using those numbers.
As some point while training for your advanced science degree you must've had to learn about academic sources and making a bibliography. Put up or shut up, instead of complaining about a vast conspiracy just show where you get your numbers and info.
Irish Eyes you are a breath of fresh air...thank you!
Posted by Expatriate on Aug. 18 2012,10:38 am
(concerned @ Aug. 17 2012,12:58 pm)
QUOTE
Then should we pay someone to drive the van? military service members wounded in duty or not should have the best care available. I do believe the person in question actually inlisted voluntarily. I was not in the service, I tried to enlist in 1984 but was rejected due to asthma. My dad and two of his brothers served in world war 2 one was shot in north africa, one was in france, and on was in Okinawa, another uncle was the Korean conflict, one cousin was paralyzed in Vietnam all but one of these have since died.
I’ve never use the V.A., I didn’t get out totally unscathed, I have ringing in my ears till this day (Tinnitus), I was jumping a bunker caught my ankle, my whole lower leg swelled 30 days before my DEROS, I was limping for a year after my discharge..still have occasional problems with that leg...
I never said we shouldn’t take care of those with actual combat related wounds! I’m saying this system is filled with fraud, folks with the entitlement attitude, People get sick no doubt about it but you can’t blame everything on the few years of service time.
The V.A. has income guidelines (now) but there are plenty of guys that think they're better than the rest of US with no combat wounds who managed to garnish disability pensions and use the V.A. like a revolving door, I have no more respect for these guys then one of the baby factories you referred to.
QUOTE
None of them ever recieved care even close to the quality that this administration proposes we owe illegal immigrants, but I truly believe that the only agenda this administration has regarding low income and illegal imigrant is to try to buy votes and in the process we are eliminating opportunities for our own citizens.
The annual average number of deportations has approached 400,000, according to the Department of Homeland Security. That’s double the annual average during President George W. Bush’s first term and 30 percent higher than the average when he left office.
Did you forget it was a Republican President that opened the flood-gates with his Amnesty Program, thank Ronnie Reagan for our problems with illegals. Secretary Napolitano Obama’s appointee seems to sending them home, Obama's 2012 budget calls for increasing the the number of border patrol agents to 21,370. More boots on the ground at our southwest boarder than any time in history!
They, the illegals wouldn't be here at all if not for the American businessmen who hire them without documentation for a cheap labor that can’t be unionized, these American businessmen are Republican to the core, therein lies the problem...
I’m not thrilled about President Obama’s controversial immigration policy aimed at thousands of young illegals , but American business will soon be clamoring for labor, one look at the demographics of the boomers tells the story, we’re about to lose the largest segment of our employed workforce, the replacement numbers just aren’t there..It really makes little difference which party gets elected the boomer tsunami is rolling out of the workforce, there’s no stopping it...
QUOTE
The don't give a damn about the common person
That describes the Republican party to a T, Do you even look at the legislation the Republican Party sponsors..You’re a workingman who’s been swayed by bought and paid for propaganda..
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 18 2012,10:47 am
(Expatriate @ Aug. 17 2012,11:35 am)
QUOTE
I’m 62 years of age, drafted into the Army 1969..I hold a position with a Utility, that’s right I make real money and pay % tax higher then Romney..
there’s a lot of Veterans scamming the system there’s a lot of people scamming the Social Security Disability system..
What really pisses me off is when someone on the Government Dole like Santoony comes here talks all the self-reliance dogma
when in actuality her whole life has been financed by our tax dollars..
Did this Veteran have a combat related injury NO he didn’t even serve in combat. Could he work, he could make babies more mouths to feed,
he could drive the VA van why can’t he drive a cab or a bus, truck etc. there’s your entitlement..
there’s a lot of Veterans scamming the system there’s a lot of people scamming the Social Security Disability system..
What really pisses me off is when someone on the Government Dole like Santoony comes here talks all the self-reliance dogma
when in actuality her whole life has been financed by our tax dollars..
Did this Veteran have a combat related injury NO he didn’t even serve in combat. Could he work, he could make babies more mouths to feed,
he could drive the VA van why can’t he drive a cab or a bus, truck etc. there’s your entitlement..
WOW...you sound so Republican
with an undertone of Democrat bitterness...
so you were drafted, hmmm, explains why your so pissed off...
Govt dole...really??!! I wish my life would have been as cushy as you are speculating with hand-outs and all...would have made things alot easier for me
BTW...I have been gone a couple days...working!!!!...miss me
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 18 2012,5:20 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 17 2012,8:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Moparman @ Aug. 17 2012,7:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ Sorry, daycabber, I'm on my union mandated break! I'll get to it sometime. Good luck making your appointment, oh your out of hours, well have fun sleeping in our drop lot.
Oh God, here we go again
I know! Why do you keep bringing up all your anti-union garbage?
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 18 2012,7:09 pm
(Moparman @ Aug. 18 2012,5:20 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 17 2012,8:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Moparman @ Aug. 17 2012,7:50 pm)
QUOTE
^ Sorry, daycabber, I'm on my union mandated break! I'll get to it sometime. Good luck making your appointment, oh your out of hours, well have fun sleeping in our drop lot.
Oh God, here we go again
I know! Why do you keep bringing up all your anti-union garbage?
You"re the one with the subservient union thing going on.
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 18 2012,7:44 pm
20,000 hours of volunteering is the equivalent of working a full-time job for 10 years. Hats off, this truly an amazing number. Or is this one of those fuzzy math calculations.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 18 2012,8:41 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 18 2012,7:09 pm)
QUOTE
You"re the one with the subservient union thing going on.
If good wages, decent work rules, cheap Cadillac family health insurance, not being bullied by management, and lack of brown nosing are considered being subservient, oh well....
Wow! I see your point now! Why would anyone want these things?
Posted by blahblahblah on Aug. 18 2012,11:38 pm
(Santorini @ Aug. 15 2012,10:56 am)
QUOTE
Some interesting stats from the last election:
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
Yeah, these numbers don't seem to make sense. Are you sure it wasn't phrased a little differently.
Instead of 73% of those that voted for Obama earned under $15,000/yr perhaps you mean 73% of those that earn under $15,000/yr voted for Obama? That might make more sense.
And here I thought our votes were anonymous.
Posted by blahblahblah on Aug. 18 2012,11:50 pm
(irisheyes @ Aug. 16 2012,3:20 am)
QUOTE
People who hold a Ph.D are some of the least likely people EVER to vote republican.
I am not sure this should be all that surprising to anyone. Anyone that attends a state school will be receiving a subsidy from the government. If you go undergrad, to grad, to doctorate that is a lot of subsidies. Then you have to do research which is probably funded by more subsidies. At the end of this journey Ph.D's have received a lot of subsidies. And they have spent a significant amount of time as part of institutions which some would suggest are very liberal.
(no sources, just my own figuring)
Posted by blahblahblah on Aug. 18 2012,11:56 pm
(Expatriate @ Aug. 16 2012,12:43 pm)
QUOTE
It amazing Just how many of these hardcore Republicans on this forum are on the Government Dole and don’t see themselves as a burden on those of US who actually WORK!!
Everyone wants to cut subsidies, as long as it's not their subsidy. It pretty sad really, and it's the reason things are unlikely to change. Clearly it's also impacted by the fact that if politicians don't have subsidies to hand out they become considerably less important. I also suspect they would gain a lot less wealth while receiving these low 6 figure incomes while in office.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 19 2012,6:30 am
(Moparman @ Aug. 18 2012,8:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 18 2012,7:09 pm)
QUOTE
You"re the one with the subservient union thing going on.
If good wages, decent work rules, cheap Cadillac family health insurance, not being bullied by management, and lack of brown nosing are considered being subservient, oh well...
Wow! I see your point now! Why would anyone want these things?
In other words if they pay you enough you'll do anything, what is that word???Escapes me right now ummmm... OH! I know! A Whore!
Except you pay someone to f'uc you, I guess you must like it
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 19 2012,7:48 am
(hairhertz @ Aug. 18 2012,7:44 pm)
QUOTE
20,000 hours of volunteering is the equivalent of working a full-time job for 10 years. Hats off, this truly an amazing number.
Or is this one of those fuzzy math calculations.
Or is this one of those fuzzy math calculations.
actually the hours accumulated in over 20 years; including weekends
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 19 2012,7:56 am
(blahblahblah @ Aug. 18 2012,11:38 pm)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Aug. 15 2012,10:56 am)
QUOTE
Some interesting stats from the last election:
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
Those that voted for Obama:
73% earned under $15,000/yr
63% did not go to high school
65% were single
Yeah, these numbers don't seem to make sense. Are you sure it wasn't phrased a little differently.
Instead of 73% of those that voted for Obama earned under $15,000/yr perhaps you mean 73% of those that earn under $15,000/yr voted for Obama? That might make more sense.
And here I thought our votes were anonymous.
You are right...I did phrase that wrong!
stats are taken from exit polls, I think our votes are still anonymous!
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 19 2012,5:39 pm
Didn't phrase it right? More like you're a lying sack of . . . .
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 19 2012,9:18 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 19 2012,6:30 am)
QUOTE
(Moparman @ Aug. 18 2012,8:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 18 2012,7:09 pm)
QUOTE
You"re the one with the subservient union thing going on.
If good wages, decent work rules, cheap Cadillac family health insurance, not being bullied by management, and lack of brown nosing are considered being subservient, oh well...
Wow! I see your point now! Why would anyone want these things?
In other words if they pay you enough you'll do anything, what is that word???Escapes me right now ummmm... OH! I know! A Whore!
Except you pay someone to f'uc you, I guess you must like it
No, its called getting the most compensation for the work I do. You see my first responsibility is to my family and myself. It's my job to provide the most for them. So you can continue the name calling, it really does not bother me coming from the likes of you.
At least I don't claim to be an " independent, lone wolf" all while depending on my wife's job to provide my health insurance. I can think of several names for people like that, and none of them are very pleasant.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 20 2012,5:16 am
(Moparman @ Aug. 19 2012,9:18 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 19 2012,6:30 am)
QUOTE
(Moparman @ Aug. 18 2012,8:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 18 2012,7:09 pm)
QUOTE
You"re the one with the subservient union thing going on.
If good wages, decent work rules, cheap Cadillac family health insurance, not being bullied by management, and lack of brown nosing are considered being subservient, oh well...
Wow! I see your point now! Why would anyone want these things?
In other words if they pay you enough you'll do anything, what is that word???Escapes me right now ummmm... OH! I know! A Whore!
Except you pay someone to f'uc you, I guess you must like it
No, its called getting the most compensation for the work I do. You see my first responsibility is to my family and myself. It's my job to provide the most for them. So you can continue the name calling, it really does not bother me coming from the likes of you.
At least I don't claim to be an " independent, lone wolf" all while depending on my wife's job to provide my health insurance. I can think of several names for people like that, and none of them are very pleasant.
If I were to need too I am quite able to provide my own health ins.but my wife and I are a team, if she can get cheaper ins. why not? If a vendor offers me a better price on parts I'll buy from them, if one of my customers gets a better service from someone else they are free to switch. I work with market forces, you work with what your union tells you to do. We've gone down this road before.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 20 2012,1:58 pm
So its ok for you to get the best deal for your team but if someone else does it its wrong just because they happen to work in a union shop? You have said yourself you would be screwed if your wife's company dropped their insurance coverge. Now magically it is not a big deal??? Make up your mind before post.The union does not " tell" me to do anything. I chose to work at a place where the employees are protected by a contract. I don't have to take the union insurance. It's my choice. If me and my fellow employees do not perform we lose customers and people get laid off. I'm free to leave for a better opportunity. So:
Our customers tell us what to do.
Our customers are free to go somewhere else.
Our vendors compete for our business.
Our employees have to perform to keep their jobs.
Market forces impact our company.
Your not special. You work in an industry that right now is desperate to put any warm butt in a drivers seat. You need to brush that big chip off your shoulder.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 20 2012,5:45 pm
^and yes, I have a very warm butt! Financially you have nothing on the line.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 20 2012,7:25 pm
I don't?
What do you think they pay me with? No work= no money.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 20 2012,7:38 pm
^ oy vey!
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 20 2012,8:21 pm
I'm sorry that concept is over your head.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 21 2012,4:53 am
How much of you own money do you put into your job?If your forklift breaks down do you pay to fix it? Pay for the gas or the electricity to plug it in?
Do pay for your company's liability ins? Licensing?
If you get laid off do you not get unemployment?
After 40 hours you get overtime, right?
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 21 2012,5:58 am
(Santorini @ Aug. 19 2012,7:48 am)
QUOTE
actually the hours accumulated in over 20 years; including weekends
First it was 10,000 hours, now it's 20,000 hours over 20 years with weekends. I'll add these to the numbers that you're either making up or copy/pasting. You haven't backed up any of the other polls, stats, or fuzzy facts that you've posted, so don't be surprised if we don't all automatically believe you.
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 21 2012,6:38 am
Is this a two person argument, or can anybody jump in? (Moparman @ Aug. 20 2012,1:58 pm)
QUOTE
The union does not " tell" me to do anything. I chose to work at a place where the employees are protected by a contract.
That's funny, the GOP keeps saying that nobody has a choice until they pass their union busting amendment.
Self Banished:
QUOTE
Financially you have nothing on the line.
How much of you own money do you put into your job?
If you get laid off do you not get unemployment?
How much of you own money do you put into your job?
If you get laid off do you not get unemployment?
I have a hard time understanding your perspective on this. I know that self-employed have to deal with a lot in regards to liability, payroll, equipment costs, and then whether they'll have enough revenue to make ends meet and come out ahead. You're right that people punching a clock don't have many of those expenses.
Where I'll take issue is the idea that someone who isn't self-employed doesn't have anything on the line financially. That's flat-out false, if you don't believe me than maybe you don't know anyone who lost most of their savings/retirement after they were laid off, outsourced, plant burned down, etc. For many unless their spouse has a decent job they might not be able to pay the bills on an unemployment check.
Oh, and that's if the executives/management of the above company doesn't figure out a way to screw you out of your severance and unemployment. Many companies are really good at doing this, so don't be shocked if they fight you on getting those benefits.
Most of the above comes from seeing a lot of people lose their savings and/or retirement after losing their job. So it's not like they didn't have plenty on the line. On the other hand, most of the executives of these so-called "small businesses" (less than 500 employees) I've met are rich enough that I have a hard time feeling like they have a lot to lose. The mom and pop shops and the owner operator truck drivers like you describe certainly have plenty to lose, I should say, the REAL small business owners have plenty to lose. But those aren't the ones the republicans are fighting for, so don't get too excited when you hear Boehner, Cantor, or Romney talking about easing restrictions or taxes on small businesses.
Talking about what factory workers have on the line financially reminded me of a documentary of the 80's with the strike at Wilsons and Hormel. The film is called American Dream. They had their wages cut nearly in half and went on strike. Many couldn't make ends meet during the strike whether they crossed the line or not. On the other hand the corporations were enjoying record profits even before cutting the pay and benefits of the workers. So whether you're punching a clock or own your own business there's plenty on the line financially.
^Check out that film I mentioned if you haven't seen it.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 21 2012,8:22 am
I have watched that film, and yet sad it's just a fact of life, it's not always fair and one has to deal with the punches sometimes.The wage cut was a market issue, people had to deal with it.
Truckers used to make a lot of money before deregulation then wages took a big dive.
A smart operator always has a few contingency plans.
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 21 2012,9:45 am
I really enjoy watching us little people fight amongst ourselves over job/employment/tax issues while the ubber rich keep getting richer.Classic divide and conquer technique.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 21 2012,9:50 am
(irisheyes @ Aug. 21 2012,5:58 am)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Aug. 19 2012,7:48 am)
QUOTE
actually the hours accumulated in over 20 years; including weekends
First it was 10,000 hours, now it's 20,000 hours over 20 years with weekends. I'll add these to the numbers that you're either making up or copy/pasting. You haven't backed up any of the other polls, stats, or fuzzy facts that you've posted, so don't be surprised if we don't all automatically believe you.
it was a typo!!
it is 20,000 hours in 20 years! sometimes it would be an hour other times we would spend whole days. our kids could not believe the camaraderie among the vets up there. sometimes we just pushed wheelchairs other times we would just visit with people, still other times we would run errands. many of the vets do not have families and are very much alone and appreciate someone buying them a cup of coffee or offering to push them to their appointment. so if you are looking for a place to volunteer some time I highly recommend it. even soliciting supplies for the Fisher Houses would be a great way to volunteer some time. you be amazed how fast time flies by!!
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 21 2012,9:53 am
Give it up, you're a liar, and anyone reading this thread can see that.
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 21 2012,10:04 am
20,000hr over 20 years is 1000hr a year, or 19.2 hours a week.
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 21 2012,10:15 am
(irisheyes @ Aug. 21 2012,5:58 am)
QUOTE
(Santorini @ Aug. 19 2012,7:48 am)
QUOTE
actually the hours accumulated in over 20 years; including weekends
First it was 10,000 hours, now it's 20,000 hours over 20 years with weekends. I'll add these to the numbers that you're either making up or copy/pasting. You haven't backed up any of the other polls, stats, or fuzzy facts that you've posted, so don't be surprised if we don't all automatically believe you.
it is 20,000 hours in almost 20 years. sometimes it was only a couple of hours other times full days. our kids could not believe the comaraderie among the vets. it is an amazing experience. if you are looking to volunteer some time I highly recommend it! many of the vets up there dont have families and if they do some are just forgotten. sometimes we would just push wheelchairs other times just visit with vets and buy them a cup of coffee or push them to their appointments. weekends are the lonliest time for them because staff is gone and about the only activity is movie night so they truely appreciate the company. also soliciting supplies for the Fisher Houses would be another great way to volunteer time if you have it to spare. I dont really care if you automatically believe or not...your opinion is not the one that matters. but if you want to do something for the good of others give some time to the vets hospital...it is life changing
Posted by Santorini on Aug. 21 2012,10:16 am
(Liberal @ Aug. 21 2012,10:04 am)
QUOTE
20,000hr over 20 years is 1000hr a year, or 19.2 hours a week.
good math liberal!
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 21 2012,7:11 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 21 2012,4:53 am)
QUOTE
How much of you own money do you put into your job?
If your forklift breaks down do you pay to fix it? Pay for the gas or the electricity to plug it in?
Do pay for your company's liability ins? Licensing?
If you get laid off do you not get unemployment?
After 40 hours you get overtime, right?
If your forklift breaks down do you pay to fix it? Pay for the gas or the electricity to plug it in?
Do pay for your company's liability ins? Licensing?
If you get laid off do you not get unemployment?
After 40 hours you get overtime, right?
I put in work which in turn makes my company more money than they pay me. A lot more.
Our forklifts are leased and are written off over five years. They pay for themselves hundreds of time over.
Ins, liscenses, etc, are simply a cost off doing business and are passed on to the customer or made up by reducing the labor force.
Unemployment insurance see above.^
Overtime is the law of the land for us non exempt hourly employees.
100% of my financial well being is dependent on me doing an efficient, profitable job for my company so they can make money to pay me. I also do have the luxery to pass the costs to anyone. I don't work at my job for fun or a hobby it is solely for financial reasons.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 21 2012,8:25 pm
^ and that is finally it, you said it, you do it for financial reasons only. It may sound sad or perverted to you but I live for mine, I get up every morning looking for ways to be better at it, make sure my customers are happy and getting what's promised to them.Yes, I make money at it, yes, I work hard just as you do. I have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in this. This is the only way I know how to exist, by being independent.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 22 2012,6:23 pm
And your point is? I do all those things at work also. I am the last person to handle our finished product before it goes to the customer. I make sure their order is correct. I have not had a customer complaint, ever. My biggest concern is hoping the delivery boy can get it there without damage. I don't have to live for my job to it well. I live or my family and my job is just one of the things I do to provide for them.
Again with this " independent" claim?
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 22 2012,7:09 pm
^So we'll leave at that.
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 23 2012,2:01 am
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 21 2012,8:22 am)
QUOTE
I have watched that film, and yet sad it's just a fact of life, it's not always fair and one has to deal with the punches sometimes.
My point wasn't whether or not life is fair, it was that they clearly had something on the line financially. It isn't just the self-employed that have something at stake.
QUOTE
The wage cut was a market issue, people had to deal with it.
Sadly anyone who's researched the increasing disparity between CEO and average worker pay over the last few decades will know exactly what "market issue" you're referring to. When a company is having record profit margins, even in a recession, there's only one explanation for cutting pay by 30%-50%. If you have a better explanation, feel free to elaborate.
QUOTE
and that is finally it, you said it, you do it for financial reasons only. It may sound sad or perverted to you but I live for mine, I get up every morning looking for ways to be better at it, make sure my customers are happy and getting what's promised to them.
Yes, I make money at it, yes, I work hard just as you do. I have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in this. This is the only way I know how to exist, by being independent.
Yes, I make money at it, yes, I work hard just as you do. I have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in this. This is the only way I know how to exist, by being independent.
I certainly respect your enthusiasm and motivation regarding your business (seriously, not being sarcastic this time). But you've mentioned customer service and satisfaction many times and I have to wonder since you've also said that if they ask you to unload the truck at all you'll lock it up and start charging them storage fees. That seems a little harsh for a guy who often talks about satisfaction and going the extra mile. But, feel free to enlighten me if there's something I'm not considering when reading things like that.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 23 2012,5:35 am
So I'm guessing you don't work in the blue collar world, nothing wrong with that. As far as the wage disparity goes well, if a worker doesn't like it they are free in this country to persue different interests, nothing says they have to stay.One of my favorite people in this world is the owner of business I service. The kid started when he was 25 with pretty much nothing by the time he was 28 he was a millionaire. His hard work, his tenacity is truly something to behold. He is not above doing anything his workers do and working conditions there are horrendous. The disparity in wages between what makes and what his workers make is tremendous but they choose to work there and are quite happy.
As far as me unloading? I have lots of customers and a lot of times I put in 10-11 hours during the day, gotta pace myself. It's also part of the contract that I negotiated. Picking up my toys and going home as you're implying is what I've got. But it's only a last resort
If you think there's no difference between being an Indy or being an employee well that's just fine,you go ahead and think that way. Bitchin' about the disparity of money will get you nowhere.
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 25 2012,8:51 pm
Sounds like your favorite person in the world runs a sweatshop. I guess if you can find enough chumps to work for nothing in horrendous conditions good for you. I choose to admire a higher class of people.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 26 2012,4:42 am
And they choose to work for him.I doubt you'd last more than have a day with him before you'd be whining that it was too hot, too cold, too dusty, too muddy etc.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 26 2012,6:56 am
So inwent to the fair yesterday, walked by several of the political booths, notice the voter ID booths both formand against( the against people called "voter restriction" no idea why) I saw the gay marriage things, got amrubber band wrist thing from the no people, later shot it at the people in the yes booth.Walked by Amy Kloubuchar's booth, I don't mind Kloubuchar, she doesn't irritate me like clown-boy. The other side of that race is Kurt Bills, I don't know any thing about him so I guess I'll have to do some research.
Anybody else go to the fair and visit the politicians booths?
Posted by Moparman on Aug. 26 2012,9:52 pm
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,4:42 am)
QUOTE
And they choose to work for him.I doubt you'd last more than have a day with him before you'd be whining that it was too hot, too cold, too dusty, too muddy etc.
Nice try! Grew up farming, been in fields all over the country. I have put in thousands of hours in hot, cold, dusty, dirty, smelly, conditions. It's the kind of work where no whining is allowed. I still do it on the side as much I can when I'm not at my " town job". You see I'm not afraid to work in any conditions, I'm just not going to do it on the cheap just to enrich someone else. To do so is just idiotic.
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 27 2012,12:23 am
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,6:56 am)
QUOTE
So inwent to the fair yesterday, walked by several of the political booths, notice the voter ID booths both formand against( the against people called "voter restriction" no idea why)
Because it's voter restriction, that's what you call it when they're setting up more restrictions on voting.
QUOTE
I saw the gay marriage things, got amrubber band wrist thing from the no people, later shot it at the people in the yes booth.
The "no" people as in the ones who will vote no on the Amendment, or the ones for the amendment banning gay marriage? Just curious, because the way it's written I'd be a little surprised you voting no on that one.
QUOTE
Anybody else go to the fair and visit the politicians booths?
Nope, I got the newsletter about the ACLU booth and thought about volunteering for a day, but I don't care for crowds or paying for gas to go to the cities to volunteer.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 27 2012,4:16 am
(Moparman @ Aug. 26 2012,9:52 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,4:42 am)
QUOTE
And they choose to work for him.I doubt you'd last more than have a day with him before you'd be whining that it was too hot, too cold, too dusty, too muddy etc.
Nice try! Grew up farming, been in fields all over the country. I have put in thousands of hours in hot, cold, dusty, dirty, smelly, conditions. It's the kind of work where no whining is allowed. I still do it on the side as much I can when I'm not at my " town job". You see I'm not afraid to work in any conditions, I'm just not going to do it on the cheap just to enrich someone else. To do so is just idiotic.
So that's what we have in common, we're both farm boys.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 27 2012,4:19 am
^So you're the type that's "thinks" about doing something.
Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 27 2012,12:25 pm
(irisheyes @ Aug. 27 2012,12:23 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,6:56 am)
QUOTE
So inwent to the fair yesterday, walked by several of the political booths, notice the voter ID booths both formand against( the against people called "voter restriction" no idea why)
Because it's voter restriction, that's what you call it when they're setting up more restrictions on voting.
Just curious. Who will be restricted from voting because of the Voter ID Amendment?
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 27 2012,12:53 pm
^Mostly criminal immigrants and people who lack enough motivation to go get an ID
Posted by Common Citizen on Aug. 27 2012,10:02 pm
(MADDOG @ Aug. 27 2012,12:25 pm)
QUOTE
(irisheyes @ Aug. 27 2012,12:23 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,6:56 am)
QUOTE
So inwent to the fair yesterday, walked by several of the political booths, notice the voter ID booths both formand against( the against people called "voter restriction" no idea why)
Because it's voter restriction, that's what you call it when they're setting up more restrictions on voting.
Just curious. Who will be restricted from voting because of the Voter ID Amendment?
I heard on MPR this morning that it would disenfranchise senior citizens and blacks.
Apparantly those that are not considered senior citizens and those that are white, latinos, and asians would not experience this same disenfranchisement.
Posted by Glad I Left on Aug. 28 2012,9:05 am
I don't get how the media portrays as this to be some burden for senior citizens. I mean we have major elections once every two years at best. If you can't find a way to get an ID of some sort, in two years, then maybe you shouldn't vote anyway. If you don't have the motivation to get an ID, how/why would you be motivated to get to a polling place?
Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 28 2012,12:24 pm
Judging from the last election, the groups who were able to vote without VOTER ID were unsuspecting nursing home residents, noncitizens, dogs and the dead. Mostly recruited by either ACORN or its spinoff; Voter Participation Center.QUOTE
The voter registration form arrived in the mail last month with some key information already filled in: Rosie Charlston's name was complete, as was her Seattle address.
Problem is, Rosie was a black lab who died in 1998.
A group called the Voter Participation Center has touted the distribution of some 5 million registration forms in recent weeks, targeting Democratic-leaning voting blocs such as unmarried women, blacks, Latinos and young adults.
But residents and election administrators around the country also have reported a series of bizarre and questionable mailings addressed to animals, dead people, noncitizens and people already registered to vote.
< newstribune >
Problem is, Rosie was a black lab who died in 1998.
A group called the Voter Participation Center has touted the distribution of some 5 million registration forms in recent weeks, targeting Democratic-leaning voting blocs such as unmarried women, blacks, Latinos and young adults.
But residents and election administrators around the country also have reported a series of bizarre and questionable mailings addressed to animals, dead people, noncitizens and people already registered to vote.
< newstribune >
QUOTE
An East St. Louis woman who worked for Acorn submitted false information on voter registration cards according to a federal indictment.
Deidra Humphrey is charged with submitting the forged cards in connection with the November 2008 general election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway alleges that Humphrey would forge cards for residents at nursing homes without their knowledge.
Deidra Humphrey is charged with submitting the forged cards in connection with the November 2008 general election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway alleges that Humphrey would forge cards for residents at nursing homes without their knowledge.
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 28 2012,4:31 pm
< http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch...ion-law >
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 28 2012,6:18 pm
^ the daily show, Jezzus chirst P
Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 28 2012,6:38 pm
^They're more likely to cut through the political B.S. than CNN or FAUXNews...
Posted by irisheyes on Aug. 28 2012,7:08 pm
(MADDOG @ Aug. 27 2012,12:25 pm)
QUOTE
(irisheyes @ Aug. 27 2012,12:23 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 26 2012,6:56 am)
QUOTE
So inwent to the fair yesterday, walked by several of the political booths, notice the voter ID booths both formand against( the against people called "voter restriction" no idea why)
Because it's voter restriction, that's what you call it when they're setting up more restrictions on voting.
Just curious. Who will be restricted from voting because of the Voter ID Amendment?
My response to S.B. was to point out that by definition, it is setting up additional restrictions (i.e. regulations to existing law). < TheFreeDictionary - Restriction >
Now, I've heard the proponents like Kifmeyer many times using the usual soundbites about the Constitution, she sounds like Sarah Palin on a bus tour. Oddly enough these people who supposedly love the Constitution are the ones who don't actually like it, they just like THEIR version of it after they do a little nip and tuck to a few sections and amendments.
QUOTE
Who will be restricted from voting because of the Voter ID Amendment?
To answer your question, while I disagree with the way Self Banished and G.I.L phrase it, they may be on to something. "Serves 'em right" is the rallying cry from the right side of the isle. Read my link below about "indirect disenfranchisement", people said the same thing back then as the "yes" people do now regarding turning away people that they don't want to vote in the first place.
Fraud or stuffing the ballot box is no joking matter either, but this isn't the elections of the mid-20th Century. The best response they can give is that there was one case of fraud in Minnesota, maybe a dozen or so nationally. And, in order to fix this we'll effectively end election day registration and possibly absentee ballots, so we'll have a democracy that will turn away a few hundred thousand or so more to insure the integrity of a dozen less fraud cases.
I think I'm beginning to understand now. The "yes" crowd says you need it for writing checks, getting a new credit card from Sears. Sounds good to me, right? Except that anyone with an I.Q. above room temp knows that private business isn't regulated by means of the Minnesota or U.S. Constitution regarding their ID requirements, so that analogy is about as stupid as most of their other analogies.
QUOTE
I don't get how the media portrays as this to be some burden for senior citizens. I mean we have major elections once every two years at best. If you can't find a way to get an ID of some sort, in two years, then maybe you shouldn't vote anyway. If you don't have the motivation to get an ID, how/why would you be motivated to get to a polling place?
Not a big burden, just a little "indirect" thing to insure that one fraudster doesn't decide to vote again. Perhaps, we could eliminate even more fraud if we amended the state and U.S. Constitution to bring back the poll taxes and literacy tests. I mean, the bleeding hearts used to say the same thing about disenfranchisement with that, but I don't see it as a big deal. If you don't have a few bucks and can't get the ballot in the right box, you shouldn't vote in the first place.
Michigan State University:
QUOTE
Georgia initiated the poll tax in 1871, and made it cumulative in 1877 (requiring citizens to pay all back taxes before being permitted to vote). Every former confederate state followed its lead by 1904. Although these taxes of $1-$2 per year may seem small, it was beyond the reach of many poor black and white sharecroppers, who rarely dealt in cash. The Georgia poll tax probably reduced overall turnout by 16-28%, and black turnout in half (Kousser, The Shaping of Southern Politics, 67-8). The purpose of the tax was plainly to disenfranchise, not to collect revenue, since no state brought prosecutions against any individual for failure to pay the tax.
The first implicit literacy test was South Carolina's notorious "eight-box" ballot, adopted in 1882. Voters had to put ballots for separate offices in separate boxes. A ballot for the governor's race put in the box for the senate seat would be thrown out. The order of the boxes was continuously shuffled, so that literate people could not assist illiterate voters by arranging their ballots in the proper order. The adoption of the secret ballot constituted another implicit literacy test, since it prohibited anyone from assisting an illiterate voter in casting his vote. In 1890, Southern states began to adopt explicit literacy tests to disenfranchise voters. This had a large differential racial impact, since 40-60% of blacks were illiterate, compared to 8-18% of whites. Poor, illiterate whites opposed the tests, realizing that they too would be disenfranchised. To placate them, Southern states adopted an "understanding clause" or a "grandfather clause," which entitled voters who could not pass the literacy test to vote, provided they could demonstrate their understanding of the meaning of a passage in the constitution to the satisfaction of the registrar, or were or were descended from someone eligible to vote in 1867, the year before blacks attained the franchise. Discriminatory administration ensured that blacks would not be eligible to vote through the understanding clause. However, illiterate whites also felt the impact of the literacy tests, since some of the understanding and grandfather clauses expired after a few years, and some whites were reluctant to expose their illiteracy by publicly resorting to them. The Supreme Court struck down Oklahoma's grandfather clause in Guinn v. U.S., 238 U.S. 347 (1915), as an obvious ruse to evade the 15th Amendment. Oklahoma responded to Guinn by passing a law requiring all those who had not voted in the 1914 election (when the grandfather clause was still in effect) to register to vote within 11 days, or forever forfeit the franchise. The Supreme Court invalidated this arrangement in Lane v. Wilson, 307 U.S. 268 (1939). None of this touched the literacy tests, only the white exemption from it. Not until 1949 in Davis v. Schnell, 81 F. Supp. 872, did a Federal court strike down discriminatory administration of a literacy test. In Lassiter v. Northampton Cty. Bd. of Ed., 360 U.S. 45 (1959), the Court upheld the Constitutionality of literacy tests, notwithstanding their differential racial impact, provided states were willing to have their impact fall on illiterate whites as well. Congress abolished literacy tests in the South with the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and nationwide in 1970.
< Techniques of Indirect Disenfranchisement 1880-1965 >
The first implicit literacy test was South Carolina's notorious "eight-box" ballot, adopted in 1882. Voters had to put ballots for separate offices in separate boxes. A ballot for the governor's race put in the box for the senate seat would be thrown out. The order of the boxes was continuously shuffled, so that literate people could not assist illiterate voters by arranging their ballots in the proper order. The adoption of the secret ballot constituted another implicit literacy test, since it prohibited anyone from assisting an illiterate voter in casting his vote. In 1890, Southern states began to adopt explicit literacy tests to disenfranchise voters. This had a large differential racial impact, since 40-60% of blacks were illiterate, compared to 8-18% of whites. Poor, illiterate whites opposed the tests, realizing that they too would be disenfranchised. To placate them, Southern states adopted an "understanding clause" or a "grandfather clause," which entitled voters who could not pass the literacy test to vote, provided they could demonstrate their understanding of the meaning of a passage in the constitution to the satisfaction of the registrar, or were or were descended from someone eligible to vote in 1867, the year before blacks attained the franchise. Discriminatory administration ensured that blacks would not be eligible to vote through the understanding clause. However, illiterate whites also felt the impact of the literacy tests, since some of the understanding and grandfather clauses expired after a few years, and some whites were reluctant to expose their illiteracy by publicly resorting to them. The Supreme Court struck down Oklahoma's grandfather clause in Guinn v. U.S., 238 U.S. 347 (1915), as an obvious ruse to evade the 15th Amendment. Oklahoma responded to Guinn by passing a law requiring all those who had not voted in the 1914 election (when the grandfather clause was still in effect) to register to vote within 11 days, or forever forfeit the franchise. The Supreme Court invalidated this arrangement in Lane v. Wilson, 307 U.S. 268 (1939). None of this touched the literacy tests, only the white exemption from it. Not until 1949 in Davis v. Schnell, 81 F. Supp. 872, did a Federal court strike down discriminatory administration of a literacy test. In Lassiter v. Northampton Cty. Bd. of Ed., 360 U.S. 45 (1959), the Court upheld the Constitutionality of literacy tests, notwithstanding their differential racial impact, provided states were willing to have their impact fall on illiterate whites as well. Congress abolished literacy tests in the South with the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and nationwide in 1970.
< Techniques of Indirect Disenfranchisement 1880-1965 >
I bring up the above because so far EVERY response of how this isn't a huge hurdle and anyone who won't have a vote counted is just lacking motivation, etc. Are the same exact response I would give regarding the poll taxes or literacy tests.
Centuries change, but political strategies haven't. Elections of the last decade have come incredibly close, locally and nationally. Don't think for a second that this is about fraud, the smart stretegists on the right-side of the isle know that if they knock off a few votes here and there, do a bit more union busting to lessen the campaign funds on the left, they'll have smooth sailing in future elections.
Or, maybe it really is about that one vote in 2008, and we have to stop voter drives and same day registration to make sure she doesn't try it again.
The provisional ballot thing isn't settled yet regarding absentee voting. Next year they'll figure it out, so it sounds like "we'll have to pass it to find out what's in this amendment." Funny how when the republicans do that trick nobody cries fowl.
Here's some links on it for anyone who wants to read the amendment I found or the for and against websites.
< Revisor MN House File 1597 >
< ProtectMyVote: Vote Yes website with Amendment and FAQ >
< MinnPost: A sucker is born every minute >
< MPR: Final Version of Voter Amendment Heads to Senate >
I included the house file and the vote yes website so as to not be accused of bad sources, so I include both right and left leaning info, in addition to the actual bill.
Posted by Common Citizen on Aug. 28 2012,11:17 pm
^jezzus chirst...another book
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Aug. 29 2012,12:04 am
It amazes me that some want to keep arguing which party is better for this country. Both are full of crap. Neither is best for us. The whole system is rigged, and most of you know it. Why keep trying to lie to yourselves? Going to vote? Lesser of two evils? There is no lesser evil any more. Anyone here honestly think things will magically get better? You are all realizing how corrupt everything is. Media, courts, our entire government system. To borrow in part from an analogy Grassman used months ago: Your house is on fire and you are fighting over whether to use gasoline or kerosene to put it out. The only thing that will make things better is to not participate. Inform as many people as you can about what is going on. Everything we've talked about in this forum for the last year. Voting is NOT going to make things any better, and all of you know it.
Posted by Common Citizen on Aug. 29 2012,12:09 am
You're just angry that the donks are going to have a low turn out so you're trying to poo poo everyone.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Aug. 29 2012,1:30 am
(Common Citizen @ Aug. 29 2012,12:09 am)
QUOTE
You're just angry that the donks are going to have a low turn out so you're trying to poo poo everyone.
Um, except I've slammed the democratic party as much as I've slammed the republican party. I detest them equally. Republicans keep accusing me of being a democrat. Democrats keep accusing me of being a republican. It's almost funny.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 29 2012,3:43 am
(Common Citizen @ Aug. 28 2012,11:17 pm)
QUOTE
^jezzus chirst...another book
Agreed
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 29 2012,7:08 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Aug. 29 2012,1:30 am)
QUOTE
(Common Citizen @ Aug. 29 2012,12:09 am)
QUOTE
You're just angry that the donks are going to have a low turn out so you're trying to poo poo everyone.
Um, except I've slammed the democratic party as much as I've slammed the republican party. I detest them equally. Republicans keep accusing me of being a democrat. Democrats keep accusing me of being a republican. It's almost funny.
They've both fostered so much of an "if you're not lockstep with US, you're lockstep with THEM" mentality... and we can't let THEM win, after all.
Where have all the great American candidates gone? Where has America gone?
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Aug. 29 2012,9:16 am
(This is my real name @ Aug. 29 2012,7:08 am)
QUOTE
Where have all the great American candidates gone? Where has America gone?
Good candidates don't stand a chance. The system is rigged. Candidates are chosen, but not by us. What sort of country has mass media that lies on a daily basis and hides everything of importance from the citizens? What sort of country harasses, threatens and arrests any journalists who try to report on things the government doesn't want them to? What sort of country spies on all of its citizens (wire taps, emails, godonlyknowswhatelse)? What sort of country will lock up its citizens without any explanation, for an indefinite amount of time and strip that citizen of every one of his/her rights? What sort of country is powerful enough to pull all of this off while fooling millions of people that it is "the freest nation on earth" ..."With liberty and justice for all" ?
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Aug. 29 2012,9:17 am
Where has America gone?That's a very good question.
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 29 2012,9:25 am
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Aug. 29 2012,9:16 am)
QUOTE
(This is my real name @ Aug. 29 2012,7:08 am)
QUOTE
Where have all the great American candidates gone? Where has America gone?
Good candidates don't stand a chance. The system is rigged. Candidates are chosen, but not by us. What sort of country has mass media that lies on a daily basis and hides everything of importance from the citizens? What sort of country harasses, threatens and arrests any journalists who try to report on things the government doesn't want them to? What sort of country spies on all of its citizens (wire taps, emails, godonlyknowswhatelse)? What sort of country will lock up its citizens without any explanation, for an indefinite amount of time and strip that citizen of every one of his/her rights? What sort of country is powerful enough to pull all of this off while fooling millions of people that it is "the freest nation on earth" ..."With liberty and justice for all" ?
Don't forget - they're doing it FOR OUR FREEDOM. Love it or leave it.
Posted by Glad I Left on Aug. 29 2012,10:37 am
I see what you are saying IE, and NO I don't think there should ever be a poll tax, or an IQ test, (but to be honest, I'd rather have an informed voter going than someone who is just showing up cuz someone told them to vote for "Insert name here")Regarding the owning property before voting, this was something the founding father did discuss and in some ways it makes sense. Currently everything is levied off your property tax; school referendums and other assessments. As long as there are homeowners this works great, but what happens when there are more renters. It would be easy for the masses to vote everything in since they don't pay property taxes, and in fact, some of them can fill out a MP1R form at the end of the years and get their landlords property tax rebated to them.
I am certainly not saying that only property owners should vote, I am saying there should be a new way to levy taxes rather than sticking it to homeowners. After all renters have kids that go to school as well.
Our whole tax structure is messed up and needs to be overhauled. I would have done that before health care, but that is just me.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Aug. 29 2012,1:48 pm
(This is my real name @ Aug. 29 2012,9:25 am)
QUOTE
Don't forget - they're doing it FOR OUR FREEDOM. Love it or leave it.
Love it or leave it, but DON'T DARE try to change it.
Free speech zones: small areas ALLOWED to citizens with any grievances against the government. Far away from the people they have grievances with, and hidden away as best they can from the rest of the population.
H.R. 347: Bill passed to now make it a felony for anyone protesting near buildings or land where someone protected by the Secret Service is located.
A portion of the law:
(2) knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;
‘(3) knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or
XXXXXXXXXXXXXx
Would be a tad difficult for thousands of people to follow such guidelines.
A protest EXPLODED last year. When the "powers that be" could no longer keep it hidden, they used the lying mass media to stomp all over it in every way it could, and then just sat back and let the citizens take over squashing it. Gotta hand it to them, when it comes to taking away our rights and brainwashing an entire country, they are really really good at what they do.
So, we could all just stick our heads back in the sand and try to go about things like everything is just peachy as always, and let our kids/grandkids have to deal with the mess we are allowing to happen. Let the mess get even bigger and scarier. Or we can start standing up for ourselves and our childrens' future. If you choose to do nothing, at least do me a favor and stop standing in the way of those of us who do want to do something. Stop spreading BS and stop calling us names. If you see someone smashing a window or crapping in the streets, call the cops or kick his ass. -Cuz that's what I'll do. -Actually that's not true. First I'd try to talk sense into him, if that didn't work, then I'd kick his ass.
Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 29 2012,5:25 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Aug. 29 2012,12:04 am)
QUOTE
It amazes me that some want to keep arguing which party is better for this country. Both are full of crap. Neither is best for us. The whole system is rigged, and most of you know it. Why keep trying to lie to yourselves? Going to vote? Lesser of two evils? There is no lesser evil any more. Anyone here honestly think things will magically get better? You are all realizing how corrupt everything is. Media, courts, our entire government system. To borrow in part from an analogy Grassman used months ago: Your house is on fire and you are fighting over whether to use gasoline or kerosene to put it out.
The only thing that will make things better is to not participate. Inform as many people as you can about what is going on. Everything we've talked about in this forum for the last year. Voting is NOT going to make things any better, and all of you know it.
The only thing that will make things better is to not participate. Inform as many people as you can about what is going on. Everything we've talked about in this forum for the last year. Voting is NOT going to make things any better, and all of you know it.
The reason people still believe there is a difference between parties is because they believe what the
Poor, misguided souls...
Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 29 2012,5:28 pm
(Rosalind_Swenson @ Aug. 29 2012,1:48 pm)
QUOTE
H.R. 347: Bill passed to now make it a felony for anyone protesting near buildings or land where someone protected by the Secret Service is located.
And while this sounds like some Bush-era development, it was Obama who signed this little beauty into law. If that doesn't illustrate the almost-nonexistent difference between the two parties, nothing will.
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 29 2012,7:51 pm
anybody other than the above, that choice should be on the ballot, imho
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 29 2012,10:35 pm
If you really don't know the differences between liberals/democrats and conservatives/republicans you should just stay home and not vote.
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 30 2012,5:00 am
^ I agree, the libs should just stay home.
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 30 2012,5:34 am
(Liberal @ Aug. 29 2012,10:35 pm)
QUOTE
If you really don't know the differences between liberals/democrats and conservatives/republicans you should just stay home and not vote.
The main difference is what they keep us divided on. Most of the talking points should not be partisan issues, but they have been made so.
As long as we're divided on those issues, we (as a society) will continue to demonize the OTHER SIDE.
Meanwhile, politicians on both sides of the aisle will continue to screw us over while lining their pockets and those of their cronies.
How many people out there are overlooking what their party does because "at least it's not as bad as the other side"?
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 30 2012,3:32 pm
^ it always seems to end up the lessor of two evils
Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 31 2012,5:43 am
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 30 2012,3:32 pm)
QUOTE
^ it always seems to end up the lessor of two evils
So vote for the same old crappy choices time after time.
Imagine what would happen if about 15% of the voters cast a ballot for a strong 3rd party candidate? [Ron Paul?]
Posted by Self-Banished on Aug. 31 2012,6:32 am
^ We'd have Obama for another 4 for sure.Anyone watch Eastwood last night?
Posted by This is my real name on Aug. 31 2012,7:07 am
(hairhertz @ Aug. 31 2012,5:43 am)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Aug. 30 2012,3:32 pm)
QUOTE
^ it always seems to end up the lessor of two evils
So vote for the same old crappy choices time after time.
Imagine what would happen if about 15% of the voters cast a ballot for a strong 3rd party candidate? [Ron Paul?]
We would need that strong candidate actively campaigning, like Ross Perot did in 1992. Without more exposure, they will never get the votes.
And yes, the OTHER GUY might win at first, but if there was a strong showing once, it would encourage more voting for the third-party candidate the next election.
Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 31 2012,10:34 am
(This is my real name @ Aug. 31 2012,7:07 am)
QUOTE
We would need that strong candidate actively campaigning, like Ross Perot did in 1992. Without more exposure, they will never get the votes.
It's not like that hasn't already happened. The fact is, the system is rigged. To wit:
QUOTE
Unlike in the UK, where you have viable alternatives to the two prevailing parties (I am particularly enamoured with the Monster Raving Loony Party), the Republicans and Democrats in America have created high petition thresholds for ballot access that make it next to impossible for third parties to compete. Until the 1970s, the RP was largely the party of "Peace and Prosperity". It championed individual liberties and freedom from state control. The Evangelical Christian neo-conservative movements came later.
I watched every Republican debate in 2008 and cheered for an unassuming man with strange beliefs about ending the Federal Reserve and bringing our troops home from not only Iraq and Afghanistan, but the roughly 900 other American bases around the world. I cheered while he openly challenged and contradicted eight years of Bush-era missteps, warned of coming economic calamity (which indeed came) and made his rivals on the Republican stage look like stooges by comparison.
I was so inspired by what this man was saying, I decided to get involved in politics. I ran for a delegate spot at my state's Republican Convention so I would have a chance to voice my concerns over the direction of the Party.
The way conventions work has been a source of confusion even for Americans. In short, conventions are a way for a large organisation to conduct business and give all members a say. Each state holds a convention, which is made up of delegates from each county and precinct. The delegates are elected by their Republican neighbours in their precinct. This is a fair process because it supposedly champions activism and ensures the higher ups play by the rules. Ron Paul supporters have used Conventions and rules to their advantage. Through diligent organization we've been able to offset his lack of media exposure by flooding the Conventions in each State.
The Indiana Republican Convention in 2008 was the first time I witnessed how party officials work to stamp out grassroots efforts. On the eve of the convention, against its own rules, a backroom committee made it so delegates could not nominate the people we wanted to become national delegates from the floor. All we could do was vote on their pre-chosen slate of delegates, people hand-picked by the party establishment to carry out their bidding without question. This was done specifically to thwart the Ron Paul grassroots.
< Full Article >
I watched every Republican debate in 2008 and cheered for an unassuming man with strange beliefs about ending the Federal Reserve and bringing our troops home from not only Iraq and Afghanistan, but the roughly 900 other American bases around the world. I cheered while he openly challenged and contradicted eight years of Bush-era missteps, warned of coming economic calamity (which indeed came) and made his rivals on the Republican stage look like stooges by comparison.
I was so inspired by what this man was saying, I decided to get involved in politics. I ran for a delegate spot at my state's Republican Convention so I would have a chance to voice my concerns over the direction of the Party.
The way conventions work has been a source of confusion even for Americans. In short, conventions are a way for a large organisation to conduct business and give all members a say. Each state holds a convention, which is made up of delegates from each county and precinct. The delegates are elected by their Republican neighbours in their precinct. This is a fair process because it supposedly champions activism and ensures the higher ups play by the rules. Ron Paul supporters have used Conventions and rules to their advantage. Through diligent organization we've been able to offset his lack of media exposure by flooding the Conventions in each State.
The Indiana Republican Convention in 2008 was the first time I witnessed how party officials work to stamp out grassroots efforts. On the eve of the convention, against its own rules, a backroom committee made it so delegates could not nominate the people we wanted to become national delegates from the floor. All we could do was vote on their pre-chosen slate of delegates, people hand-picked by the party establishment to carry out their bidding without question. This was done specifically to thwart the Ron Paul grassroots.
< Full Article >
So, like in every other supposedly fair contest in America, the money again finds a way to win.
Posted by Santorini on Sep. 01 2012,9:33 am
(Liberal @ Aug. 29 2012,10:35 pm)
QUOTE
If you really don't know the differences between liberals/democrats and conservatives/republicans you should just stay home and not vote.
there are liberals AND there are democrats; just like there are conservatives AND there are republicans...
Posted by busybee on Sep. 01 2012,11:40 am
There are the liars and the liars who always make false promises that they never fulfill...it doesn't matter what they're called/labeled...it's always the same b.s. we as U.S. continue to swallow as HOPE for change...which NEVER happens anyway. I see no valid reasoning behind voting any more because when push comes to shove...so much more matters to politicians than the U.S. Citizen's who vote for them.
