Topic: Rochester Police Make Big Meth Bust
started by: Stone-Magnon
Posted by Stone-Magnon on Sep. 18 2011,9:57 am
Well, make all the busts you want. They'll make more.What? Are they gonna stop because you made a bust?
You just made it more profitable for the next guy.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 18 2011,11:22 am
Like yourself, I think marijuana should be legal, if not completely legal, then at least for medicinal purposes. I don't however think other drugs should be made legal. Meth and others like it are destructive.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 18 2011,12:14 pm
My deepest sympathies go out to you, Stone, and your victimized friends who are being made to suffer because they have the right to disobey all illegal drug laws because the illegal drug war and punishments against them is wrong. 
Posted by Stone-Magnon on Sep. 19 2011,10:13 pm
QUOTE
I don't however think other drugs should be made legal. Meth and others like it are destructive.
Well, if we want to start making everyone elses bodies our own business and start jailing all those who do unhealthy things, why we'd all be in jail.
Cigarettes kill FAR more than all other drugs combined. Why not prohibit them? That is, if your concern over others health is your primary issue.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 19 2011,11:12 pm
I agree with you on that one Stone...According to the "medical field" cigarette smokers and those who are exposed to second hand smoke are destined to be "doomed" with cancer, heart disease, childhood ear infections and allergies, a sore that never heals, ect...
So, why does the U.S. Government allow the legalized sales of cigarettes when the medical feild claims it's killing those who purchase them legally and any person who get's a breath of their second hand smoke???
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 19 2011,11:19 pm
(Stone-Magnon @ Sep. 19 2011,10:13 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
I don't however think other drugs should be made legal. Meth and others like it are destructive.
Well, if we want to start making everyone elses bodies our own business and start jailing all those who do unhealthy things, why we'd all be in jail.
Cigarettes kill FAR more than all other drugs combined. Why not prohibit them? That is, if your concern over others health is your primary issue.
I don't care about anything a person wants to do to their own bodies. I do however care about people using these drugs and what it does to their children, or what they do to others to get money to get those drugs. I've seen what sort of parents people that use these sorts of drugs become.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 19 2011,11:23 pm
Drugs, whether legal or illegal are not the cause of crimes, or whether children are treated poorly. People do that.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 19 2011,11:32 pm
People on meth and heroin are more apt to be abusive and neglectful parents. That's just how it is.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 20 2011,12:16 am
My point exactly! So, when a parent who is NOT a meth or heroine user abuses and neglects their children...who BELIEVES the CHILDREN vs. a parent who ISN'T addicted to an illegal or legal drug?
U.S. Society is more apt to remove a child from a home because of a parent's legal or illegal drug addiction because the assumption is every parent who is alleged to have a chemical dependency problem is automatically a bad parent.
A parent who NEGLECTS and ABUSES their child/children without any evidence of chemical use is more likely to be seen as a "DECENT PARENT" with PROBLEMATIC CHILDREN to deal with, thus these children who have no idea how lucky they are that their parent isn't high on meth, heroine or drunk when they physicaly or sexually assault them.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 20 2011,12:18 am
Oops! Computer and computer operator error.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 20 2011,9:58 am
Hard drugs like heroin and meth are highly addictive and also mind altering. People are far more likely to become addicted to hard drugs than they are to be addicted to alcohol and with more devastating consequences. People who would normally be good parents become abusive and neglectful, people who would never consider stealing, will steal and sometimes hurt others while committing crimes to get more drugs. I'm not saying ALL users, but most of them. Too many lives are ruined from these drugs, and not just the users' lives.
Posted by Stone-Magnon on Sep. 20 2011,11:25 am
Well, first of all you're describing some effects of prohibition, not the drug. If cigs were illegal they'd be much more expensive. QUOTE
Hard drugs like heroin and meth are highly addictive and also mind altering. People are far more likely to become addicted to hard drugs than they are to be addicted to alcohol and with more devastating consequences
No other drug is as addictive as nicotine, period. It addicts and KILLS more then ALL other drugs combined. Alcohol is extremely mind altering at higher doses and often causes violence. Claiming some drugs makes you worse parents is pure bullcrap, period. How about laws making it illegal for parents to use any drugs, even the hard legal ones?
Again, your logic and argument falls to pieces under scrutiny. Next.
You don't even realize it I'm sure, but you're actually highly biased and appear to have "bought in" to much of the drug war propaganda of the last 25 years. I could knock your points down one by one but you know what, I'm to tired to correct you anymore. Remember the drug war was brought to you by the same minds that used weapons of mass destruction lies and propaganda. They did the same thing with the drug war which simply divides drugs into good and bad and protects alcohol and nicotine...well, just like you're doing...see?
The partnership for drug free America IS Alcohol and nicotine wholly funded. It's purpose is to make you think that nicotine and alcohol are nice safe drugs compared to others and it's simply not true and the FACTS show it. Face it, you drank the Kool-Aid.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 20 2011,11:37 am
I never said alcohol or nicotine wasn't bad. I never said they are good. I said how they affect peoples' actions aren't as bad as what happens when people are addicted to meth or heroin. I'm not saying bad things don't happen when alcohol is involved in peoples' lives.
Posted by Stone-Magnon on Sep. 20 2011,11:42 am
OK, prove it. Prove to me a Heroin and meth users actions are worse. Show me the studies, the data. You can't, because it's simply speculation on your part. Speculation that is based on biased and wrong assumptions.Again Nicotine is overwhelmingly the biggest killer. Period. ALL other drugs COMBINED don't kill as many and that's a lot because prescription drugs kill more than illegal drugs. You drank the Kool-Aid Lady.
Posted by Rosalind_Swenson on Sep. 20 2011,11:52 am
(Stone-Magnon @ Sep. 20 2011,11:42 am)
QUOTE
OK, prove it. Prove to me a Heroin and meth users actions are worse. Show me the studies, the data. You can't, because it's simply speculation on your part. Speculation that is based on biased and wrong assumptions.
Again Nicotine is overwhelmingly the biggest killer. Period. ALL other drugs COMBINED don't kill as many and that's a lot because prescription drugs kill more than illegal drugs. You drank the Kool-Aid Lady.
Again Nicotine is overwhelmingly the biggest killer. Period. ALL other drugs COMBINED don't kill as many and that's a lot because prescription drugs kill more than illegal drugs. You drank the Kool-Aid Lady.
How did this discussion get to people harming themselves?? I assumed with my first posting that is what I was talking about, I explained how it wasn't, yet now to back up your argument you bring up what the biggest killer is. Nicotine, I won't argue that at all, but I thought you didn't want to discuss what one does on their own time harming only themselves. I thought we were both talking about acts that cause harm to others. Speaking from personal experience, I have been around people all my life who have alcohol and or drug problems, and the most harm I see inflicted on other people, comes from users of meth, crack or heroin more than it comes from alcohol. You don't have the same experience? Have you witnessed more problems from drinkers than from drug users?
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 20 2011,5:51 pm
Hard drugs, or hard liquor does it really matter? Daily use of either will make you a crappy parent, and eventually kill you. And recreational use of one is no worse than the other. It's the addiction that's the problem, not the addictive substance.
Posted by busybee on Sep. 20 2011,7:47 pm
I would lean more towards alcohol being the worst and most harmful. Yet, I believe because alcohol is a legalized mind altering chemical, we dismiss the severity and minimize the consequences of those who harm others and their children, becaust alcohol is a "legal drug."
Any parent who is allegedly accused of having an illegal drug can lose their children to Social Service Child Protedtion within "minutes."
Yet, no one worries about the child/children's overall safety and welfare if their parent is arrested for violating a "legally alcohol" related crime.
Any parent can drive under the influence of the legal substance of alcohol and fail to stop at a stop sign and end the lives of other innocent human beings because of their individual choice to drive drunk on the legalized mind altering drug of alcohol.
And even though that parent is charged with vehicular homicide, the children of that parent are not AUTOMATICALLY assumed to be at risk to be removed from the home because of "potential" neglect or harm.
Any parent who is busted for having an illegal drug in their possession, such as meth or heroine, even though NO INNOCENT PERSON has lost their life, no children have been exposed, has the greatest risk of having their chidren taken based upoin the assumption that their children are at risk of being neglected and/or harmed just because their parent broke an "illegal drug law."