Forum: Current Events
Topic: Police: Norway suspect a right-wing extremist
started by: alcitizens

Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 23 2011,3:22 pm
Police have confirmed 91 deaths in the attacks: Seven from the bombing, and 84 at the political youth camp where the gunman opened fire after allegedly setting off a bomb in Oslo.

Norwegian media reported that the suspect belonged to an extreme right wing group, calling himself a "nationalist," and had at least a Glock pistol and machine gun registered in his name. He allegedly ran a company, GeoFarm, involved in farming "vegetables, melons, roots and tubers," and would have had access to chemical fertilizers used in bomb-making.

< http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...entBody >

Posted by Santorini on Jul. 23 2011,10:06 pm
Gotta love the media :violin:

Norway has the same social problems we do here.  The conservatives and the progressives (liberals) making the laws.
Conservatives want less government...
Liberals want more government.
The media paints the same picture of the conservatives in Norway that they do in our country.
They (the right) are all about protecting the rich.  You know that all too familiar song and dance!!  Not very original.
When parties become that separated; and some citizens feel they are losing tradition, values, morals etc.
to a [free-for-all-anything-goes] type society, of course extremists are going to be born out of this frustration.   It is sad that our societies have come to this.  Problems is with both our countries and societies
there will always be the haves and have-nots!  And because of that we will continue to disagree and the media will continue to incite anger among the citizens.  That is how the game is played.
Survival of the fittest  :angel:

Condolences to all those who lost their lives because of this senseless act and to their families.

Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2011,10:26 pm
Imagine that a fundamentalist loon defending the insane actions of another fundamentalist loon.
Posted by Glad I Left on Jul. 23 2011,10:50 pm
I guess I prefer the media calling a spade a spade.  If he's a right wing nut, then let them call him that.  Same if it was the other way.
But in the end, doesn't matter what type of nut he is, people are still dead.

Posted by Santorini on Jul. 23 2011,11:07 pm

(Liberal @ Jul. 23 2011,10:26 pm)
QUOTE
Imagine that a fundamentalist loon defending the insane actions of another fundamentalist loon.

If you are attempting to refer to me, I am NOT a protestant :angel:
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 23 2011,11:13 pm

(Glad I Left @ Jul. 23 2011,10:50 pm)
QUOTE
I guess I prefer the media calling a spade a spade.  If he's a right wing nut, then let them call him that.  Same if it was the other way.
But in the end, doesn't matter what type of nut he is, people are still dead.

Exactly!  That is what I was saying!
But...and you cannot deny this...it IS the media that perpetuates and incites angst.  And unfortunately, this is what can happen when some unstable takes things too far.
You have to admit...we very rarely get news anymore.
Journalists and newcasters are quickly becoming a thing of the past.  Everyone is a pundit anymore!

Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 23 2011,11:21 pm
Well obviously Norway needs more gun control and make murder even more illegal than what it is, that will stop the next one  :sarcasm:  :crazy:
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2011,11:27 pm
You don't get news anymore only because you watch fox you kook.
QUOTE

Everyone is a pundit anymore!

Is that English?

Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 24 2011,9:30 am

(Santorini @ Jul. 23 2011,10:06 pm)
QUOTE
Conservatives want less government...

Got any facts to back that up, or is that just how you feel?  If all it took to cut spending and balance the budget would be to talk about it, the conservatives would be doing great.  But it takes more than talk, and that's why every balanced budget over the last 50 years has been done by a democratic President.   :;):

Congressional control of those periods was either repub or dem.  As I've pointed out many times according to the conservative Heritage Foundation, spending steadily increases regardless of Congressional leadership.  The last republican to even PROPOSE a balanced budget was long before Reagan, we'd have to go back to the days of Eisenhower.

QUOTE
Liberals want more government.


Both parties want more government, but only one party is willing to generate revenue to pay for it.  Conservatives consistently over spend just like liberals, the only difference is they say taxes are bad so all the wars and bank bailouts aren't paid for under their plans.

QUOTE
They (the right) are all about protecting the rich.  You know that all too familiar song and dance!!  Not very original.


On this I totally agree with you, I wish the republicans would come up with something new other than protecting tax breaks for the rich and kicking the can (debt) down the road to the middle class.   :thumbsup:

In MN and the U.S. in general their main deal breaker is always keeping taxes low on millionaires while the sales, property, sin taxes, and fees skyrocket for the middle class.  And the debt continually increases for future generations to deal with so the rich can get richer in the here and now.

QUOTE
When parties become that separated; and some citizens feel they are losing tradition, values, morals etc.
to a [free-for-all-anything-goes] type society, of course extremists are going to be born out of this frustration.   It is sad that our societies have come to this.


So, he felt that Norway was losing values and morals, so naturally the answer was to kill 91 people?   :sarcasm:  

QUOTE
The media paints the same picture of the conservatives in Norway that they do in our country.


The media is calling him what he was, a right-wing terrorist.  That might make conservatives feel defensive, but that doesn't mean you can blame it on media bias.  If he would've been a Muslim the media would jump on him for being an Islamic extremist.  Like G.I.L. said, they're calling a spade a spade.

So, I wonder if Newt Gingrich is going to suggest we need to do something about right-wing fanatics.  Profiling, maybe have Homeland Security put them on no-fly lists?   :sarcasm:

Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 24 2011,10:22 am
Just to clarify, the rifle he used WAS NOT a machine gun, it was a Ruger mini-14, semi-auto rifle.  Wish the media would know the differences on weapons and types.
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 24 2011,10:26 am
Irish Eyes,

Yes...Democrats are about more government.
Too many [entitlement programs] (excluding SS; however there are issues with this that need to be addressed as well).  The US can not be all things to all people.
The Republicans want to cut needless waste.  We want jobs...real jobs that are created by the money-makers not the government.
Take MN shut down for example:
        NON-ESSENTIAL programs were shut down!  If they are classified non-essential why are they being funded in the first place :dunno:

And yes...
The media IS the source of angst and keeps perpetuating that angst.  Where else do people get current information and [news?]!  and most believe everything they hear or read from that [news] :dunce:
Take the Casey Anthony case for example.  That case should have never received the ongoing publicity it did.  But the media kept it alive all through the trial.  The pundits kept inciting the riots in FL.  The media did its best to sway public opinion without all the facts.
The same way we receive [news] from TV, in print, internet, its all pieces of fact woven mostly with opinion!

Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 24 2011,10:59 am

(Santorini @ Jul. 24 2011,10:26 am)
QUOTE
The Republicans want to cut needless waste.  We want jobs...real jobs that are created by the money-makers not the government.
Take MN shut down for example:
        NON-ESSENTIAL programs were shut down!  If they are classified non-essential why are they being funded in the first place :dunno:

Eliminating the Homestead Credit and cutting Local Government Aid (LGA) will mean local property tax
increases on the working class and local business, thank the Republicans for protecting millionaires and enacting their far-right social agenda...

Someday little girl you'll wake-up look at the facts and realize the far-right doesn't represent US..
How are you going to get to school when the short bus is gone?

Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 24 2011,11:09 am
QUOTE
National police chief Sveinung Sponheim told NRK that the suspected gunman's Internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen."

I love how the media can take something like the quote above and immediately make it into an extreme group whether it's right wing or left wing.

It seems he also had a Facebook page which did not show any Religious or Political beliefs and then another one appeared with his religious beliefs as Christian and his political views as Conservative. However the one that was originally seen had neither of these listed on it. It is being debated that perhaps the 2nd FB listing is a fake.

Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 24 2011,11:21 am

(Expatriate @ Jul. 24 2011,10:59 am)
QUOTE
Someday little girl you'll wake-up look at the facts and realize the far-right doesn't represent US..

Nor does the far left Expat. Neither side of the political spectrum represents the area that elected them. Both sides represent the businesses that are paying to get their legislation passed whether it's a far left liberal agenda or the far right conservative one.
Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 24 2011,12:17 pm

(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 24 2011,10:22 am)
QUOTE
Just to clarify, the rifle he used WAS NOT a machine gun, it was a Ruger mini-14, semi-auto rifle.  Wish the media would know the differences on weapons and types.

I hadn't checked on the rifle, but I had wondered if that was the case.  Often the people identifying these guns think that every assault rifle is a full-auto, instead of pointing out that they're almost always semi-autotomatic.  Scary looking, but he could be just as dangerous (if not more) with a hunting rifle or shotgun.

Reminds me of a news story I read where the reporter identifies a firearm as "a large Glock revolver".   :dunce:

Santorini-
QUOTE
Yes...Democrats are about more government.


Glad you're up to speed.  Reread my post, I said both dems and repubs are about more government.  Why keep the blinders on about what the repubs are doing?

QUOTE
Too many [entitlement programs] (excluding SS; however there are issues with this that need to be addressed as well).  The US can not be all things to all people.


Republicans expanded entitlement programs in the last decade.  Remember the completely unfunded Medicare prescription drug benefit?  That increased entitlement spending, and the first thing democrats do is make cuts to Medicare Advantage which added several years to the Medicare trust fund.

Where do you get your information?  If spending, the deficit, and entitlements are important points that bother you, I don't understand why you don't acknoledge that republicans (and conservatives in general) don't have a track record that's any better.

QUOTE
The Republicans want to cut needless waste.  We want jobs...real jobs that are created by the money-makers not the government.


Ah yes, the waste.  The repubs are really saving a lot with that.  I bet we'll save enough to buy a Israel another billion dollars in weapons next year.  Please, look at the actual discretionary budget at some point.  The waste the repubs keep telling their constituents is the problem is such a small part it's irrelevant in the big picture, and then people are surprised that we close a bunch of planned parenthood clinics and what difference did it make?  Long term that stuff actually costs more because you're making it more difficult for women to prevent unplanned pregnancies and for both sexes to get screened for STDs.  They get knocked up or spread something, it's the taxpayers who foot the bill in the long-run.

QUOTE
The media IS the source of angst and keeps perpetuating that angst.  Where else do people get current information and [news?]!  and most believe everything they hear or read from that [news] :dunce:


A guy went off his rocker and decided to kill a bunch of people, you can blame the media if you want.  I choose to blame the guy who pulled the trigger.

Posted by Wolfie on Jul. 24 2011,10:30 pm
There is NO such thing as an assault rifle, that is a classification given to firearms by a media report.  And throughout its continued misuse has included many firearms unfortunately. Also the only person that should be held responsible for a shooting, deliberately, accidental, or otherwise is the jerk behind the trigger.
Posted by Glad I Left on Jul. 25 2011,8:02 am

(Wolfie @ Jul. 24 2011,10:30 pm)
QUOTE
There is NO such thing as an assault rifle, that is a classification given to firearms by a media report.  And throughout its continued misuse has included many firearms unfortunately. Also the only person that should be held responsible for a shooting, deliberately, accidental, or otherwise is the jerk behind the trigger.

:clap: x1000
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 25 2011,10:14 am

(Expatriate @ Jul. 24 2011,10:59 am)
QUOTE

(Santorini @ Jul. 24 2011,10:26 am)
QUOTE
The Republicans want to cut needless waste.  We want jobs...real jobs that are created by the money-makers not the government.
Take MN shut down for example:
        NON-ESSENTIAL programs were shut down!  If they are classified non-essential why are they being funded in the first place :dunno:

Eliminating the Homestead Credit and cutting Local Government Aid (LGA) will mean local property tax
increases on the working class and local business, thank the Republicans for protecting millionaires and enacting their far-right social agenda...

Someday little girl you'll wake-up look at the facts and realize the far-right doesn't represent US..
How are you going to get to school when the short bus is gone?

Expatriate,
   Actually, the LGA is now frozen at 2010 levels for all cities.    Not a cut...they chose not to increase, there is a difference!
They increased property tax refunds by 30 million for homeowners who qualify!
They decreased renters credit by about $80 on average starting in 2012
And the MVHC (market value homestead credit) is converted into the MVHE (market value homestead exclusion).  Current law provides an exemption from property taxation for a certain amount of market value of the homestead of a disabled veteran...this is called market value homestead exclusion.  No where does it say they are eliminating the homestead credit, but rather changing the terms.
:angel:

Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 25 2011,10:55 am

(Santorini @ Jul. 25 2011,10:14 am)
QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jul. 24 2011,10:59 am)
QUOTE

(Santorini @ Jul. 24 2011,10:26 am)
QUOTE
The Republicans want to cut needless waste.  We want jobs...real jobs that are created by the money-makers not the government.
Take MN shut down for example:
        NON-ESSENTIAL programs were shut down!  If they are classified non-essential why are they being funded in the first place :dunno:

Eliminating the Homestead Credit and cutting Local Government Aid (LGA) will mean local property tax
increases on the working class and local business, thank the Republicans for protecting millionaires and enacting their far-right social agenda...

Someday little girl you'll wake-up look at the facts and realize the far-right doesn't represent US..
How are you going to get to school when the short bus is gone?

Expatriate,
   Actually, the LGA is now frozen at 2010 levels for all cities.    Not a cut...they chose not to increase, there is a difference!
They increased property tax refunds by 30 million for homeowners who qualify!
They decreased renters credit by about $80 on average starting in 2012

I agree with you about LGA this year, but if Dayton would've given in to repubs they would've cut LGA just like Pawlenty did before.

As for your remark about renters, I'd like to see a source that it begins in 2012.  They made it retroactive to last years returns that are being refunded this year.

The point is, they protected the millionaires so they could once again take the money from education and people who are living paycheck to paycheck.  Different year, same card trick.

Edit:  I stand corrected, from previous reports it looked like LGA would stay the same.  From the local paper looks like they found out different.  LGA may go down, property taxes in Greater MN will go up.  But don't worry, they're making sure the top 2% are covered in the state, and Boehner and Cantor are keeping the home fires burning in D.C. to do the same.   :;):
< Tribune, state aid change >

Posted by Santorini on Jul. 25 2011,9:58 pm

(OEF_Soldier @ Jul. 24 2011,11:21 am)
QUOTE

(Expatriate @ Jul. 24 2011,10:59 am)
QUOTE
Someday little girl you'll wake-up look at the facts and realize the far-right doesn't represent US..

Nor does the far left Expat. Neither side of the political spectrum represents the area that elected them. Both sides represent the businesses that are paying to get their legislation passed whether it's a far left liberal agenda or the far right conservative one.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:
Posted by Santorini on Jul. 25 2011,10:13 pm
expatriot,


< www.twincities.com/politics >

.dollars and sense: final tally on new MN State budget :angel:

Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 25 2011,10:26 pm

(Wolfie @ Jul. 24 2011,10:30 pm)
QUOTE
There is NO such thing as an assault rifle, that is a classification given to firearms by a media report.  And throughout its continued misuse has included many firearms unfortunately. Also the only person that should be held responsible for a shooting, deliberately, accidental, or otherwise is the jerk behind the trigger.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :thumbsup:
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 25 2011,10:31 pm
I have word from a guy who lives in Oslo, that the rifle is in fact a Ruger mini-14.  

You also have to take a class and pass a test in order to buy a weapon, most weapons bought are mostly shotguns and rifles.  Most people who partake in such endeavors are mostly those who hunt.

Posted by Expatriate on Jul. 26 2011,8:15 am

(Santorini @ Jul. 25 2011,10:13 pm)
QUOTE
expatriot,


< www.twincities.com/politics >

.dollars and sense: final tally on new MN State budget :angel:

Santorini

your link opens to the pioneer press site without taking me to the link you intended...

seaching the site for "dollars and sense: final tally on new MN State budget" turns up zero matches... :dunno:

Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 26 2011,9:35 am
Expat, the link is on that page.

< dollars and sense >

Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 26 2011,4:53 pm
He claims his attack is part of a coordinated effort by a group calling itself the Knights Templar to rid Europe of Muslims and left-wing politics. Police officials say they're not sure whether such a group exists.

< http://www.usatoday.com/news...fetcher >

I fear the radical right-wing extremist bigot will in time be feared as much as radical right-wing extremist islamists..

Posted by Counterfeit Fake on Jul. 26 2011,5:23 pm

Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 26 2011,6:10 pm
^  :rofl:
Isn't that the truth, on how those morons in the media portray weapons.

Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 26 2011,6:15 pm
QUOTE
I fear the radical right-wing extremist bigot will in time be feared as much as radical right-wing extremist islamists..

You mean like the right wing radical Islamic racist quoted below?  :sarcasm:

QUOTE
Sharpton later expressed regret for making the racial remark, "white interloper," and denied responsibility for inflaming or provoking the violence.

Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 26 2011,6:38 pm
Ah, just a media report?  In Minnesota we get a permit to purchase a handgun or "semiautomatic military style assault weapon".  According to both statute and my recent NRA guide to firearm laws.  It's a common usage and I was trying to convey what it was.  If it's just journalists, maybe you should do a search on Gunbroker or Google for the terms and let me know how many are journalists.

But I apologize for bringing up the term "assault rifle" nonetheless.  From now on I will refer to such weapons as: (1) ugly guns, (2)scary looking black guns, or (3) jagged metal/polymer weapon systems with tritium night sights and optional laser with telescoping stock."   :sarcasm:

Posted by alcitizens on Jul. 26 2011,7:37 pm

(OEF_Soldier @ Jul. 26 2011,6:15 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
I fear the radical right-wing extremist bigot will in time be feared as much as radical right-wing extremist islamists..

You mean like the right wing radical Islamic racist quoted below?  :sarcasm:
QUOTE
Sharpton later expressed regret for making the racial remark, "white interloper," and denied responsibility for inflaming or provoking the violence.

<

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news >, < world news >, and < news about the economy >


Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 29 2011,9:57 am
Forget Breivik, America’s the Real Cause of the Norway Massacre

You just knew it had to happen. In retrospect, it’s really only surprising that it took as long as it did. Combine a knee-jerk blame-America-first attitude with rabid anti-gun politics and opportunism and what other conclusion can be reached? It was obviously America and our lax gun laws that were the real causes of Norway massacre…

Breivik reportedly told investigators that he’d legally purchased 30-round magazines for his Ruger Mini-14 by mail from the states. Which was just the news gleeful gun-grabber Rep. Carolyn McCarthy needed:

QUOTE
   “There should be a lot of shame,” she told POLITICO. “We’re sending a death warrant to other parts of the world. … Unfortunately now, internationally, it’s known that you can get here, buy your guns, buy your large magazines, and you’re not going to have any problem.” McCarthy said eliminating high-capacity clips like those used in the Norway and Arizona shootings should be a matter of moral outrage.

   “I don’t understand why people can’t have common sense,” she said. “Large magazines do not need to be part of it. The large manufacturers, they should even take a moral point of view in not selling them to ordinary citizens through the gun stores. The police and military can still use them.But I just morally think they should not look to sell them to the average citizen.”

   “It is bad enough that our lax laws gun cause death and destruction in the streets of our own country but we must now face the fact that our domestic arms bazaar is attracting foreign terrorists and criminals,” said Josh Horwitz, the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. “What will it take for Congress to wake up and take action?”


McCarthy’s never been above picking up a bloody shirt and proudly waiving it if it helps her anti-gun agenda. It doesn’t matter if that shirt was worn by Norwegian children, Gabrielle Giffords or her own husband and son. And Dennis Hennigan, acting head of the Brady Campaign certainly was glad to jump aboard Maloney’s moral outrage express:

QUOTE
“It now appears that not even Norwegian children at a youth camp are safe from the battlefield firepower so easily available in America,” he said. “Large-capacity assault clips(WTF is an assault clip, GOD this woman is dumb as a bag of hammers) are instruments of mass killing, yet federal law leaves them completely unregulated.”


So it’s evidently America’s fault that a determined psychopath in another country decided to kill as many people he could. We must also to blame for the restrictive gun laws in Norway that prevented anyone on that island from defending themselves with a firearm. And we’re certainly the reason that it took the local police an hour to respond in any way.   America must also be blamed, because Norway didn't have laws in place that didn't allow importation of "so-called high capacity mags"
Oh, the burden we bear.

Posted by jimhanson on Aug. 09 2011,3:57 pm
And now for a little levity on the subject--from Ann Coulter! :D

QUOTE
NEW YORK TIMES READER KILLS DOZENS IN NORWAY
July 27, 2011


The New York Times wasted no time in jumping to conclusions about Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian who staged two deadly attacks in Oslo last weekend, claiming in the first two paragraphs of one story that he was a "gun-loving," "right-wing," "fundamentalist Christian," opposed to "multiculturalism."

It may as well have thrown in "Fox News-watching" and "global warming skeptic."

This was a big departure from the Times' conclusion-resisting coverage of the Fort Hood shooting suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. Despite reports that Hasan shouted "Allahu Akbar!" as he gunned down his fellow soldiers at a military medical facility in 2009, only one of seven Times articles on Hasan so much as mentioned that he was a Muslim.

Of course, that story ran one year after Hasan's arrest, so by then, I suppose, the cat was out of the bag.

In fact, however, Americans who jumped to conclusions about Hasan were right and New York Times reporters who jumped to conclusions about Breivik were wrong.

True, in one lone entry on Breivik's gaseous 1,500-page manifesto, "2083: A European Declaration of Independence," he calls himself "Christian." But unfortunately he also uses a great number of other words to describe himself, and these other words make clear that he does not mean "Christian" as most Americans understand the term. (Incidentally, he also cites The New York Times more than a half-dozen times.)

Had anyone at the Times actually read Breivik's manifesto, they would have seen that he uses the word "Christian" as a handy moniker to mean "European, non-Islamic" -- not a religious Christian or even a vague monotheist. In fact, at several points in his manifesto, Breivik stresses that he has a beef with Christians for their soft-heartedness. (I suppose that's why the Times is never worried about a "Christian backlash.")

A casual perusal of Breivik's manifesto clearly shows that he uses the word "Christian" similarly to the way some Jewish New Yorkers use it to mean "non-Jewish." In this usage, Christopher Hitchens and Madalyn Murray O'Hair are "Christians."

I told a Jewish gal trying to set me up with one of her friends once that he had to be Christian, and she exclaimed that she had the perfect guy: a secular Muslim atheist. (This was the least-popular option on the '60s board game Dream Date, by the way).

Breivik is very clear that you don't even have to believe in God to join his movement, saying in a self-interview:

Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus.

He goes on to say that a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" is "everything we DO NOT want," and a "secular European society" is "what we DO want."

"It is enough," Breivik says, "that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist." That statement doesn't even make sense in America.

At the one and only meeting of Breivik's "Knights Templar" in London in 2002, there were nine attendees, three of whom he describes as "Christian atheists" and one as a "Christian agnostic." (Another dozen people mistook it for a Renaissance Faire and were turned away.)

Breivik clearly explains that his "Knights Templar" is "not a religious organization but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order." He even calls on the "European Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu community" to join his fight against "the Islamization of Europe."

He doesn't believe in Christianity or want anyone else to, but apparently supports celebrating Christmas simply to annoy Muslims.

Breivik says he is "not an excessively religious man," brags that he is "first and foremost a man of logic," calls himself "economically liberal" and reveres Darwinism.

But Times reporters had their "Eureka!" moment as soon as they heard Breivik used the word "Christian" someplace to identify himself. No one at the Times bothered to read Breivik's manifesto to see that he doesn't use the term the way the rest of us do. That might have interfered with the paper's obsessive Christian-bashing.

Other famous killers dubbed conservative Christians by the Times include Timothy McVeigh and Jared Loughner.

McVeigh was a pot-smoking atheist who said, "Science is my religion."

Similarly, Breivik says in his manifesto that "it is essential that science take an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings" –- a statement that would be incomprehensible to all the real scientists, such as Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Bacon, Newton, Mendel, Pasteur, Planck, Einstein and Pauli, all of whom believed the whole purpose of science was to understand God.

The Tucson shooter, Jared Loughner, was lyingly described by the Times as a pro-life fanatic. Not only did more honest news outlets, such as ABC News, report exactly the opposite -- for example, how Loughner alarmed his classmates by laughing about an aborted baby in class -- but Loughner's friends described him as "left wing," "a political radical," "quite liberal" and "a pothead." Another said Loughner's mother was Jewish.

The only reason Timothy McVeigh has gone down in history as a right-wing Christian and Jared Loughner has not -- despite herculean efforts by much of the mainstream media to convince us otherwise -- is that by January 2011 when Loughner went on his murder spree, conservatives had enough media outlets to reveal the truth.

As explained in the smash best-seller "Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America," the liberal rule is: Any criminal act committed by a white man with a gun is a right-wing, Christian conspiracy, whereas any criminal act committed by a nonwhite is the government violating someone's civil liberties.

It's too bad Breivik wasn't a Muslim extremist open about his Jihadist views, because I hear the Army is looking for a new psychiatrist down at Fort Hood.


Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 09 2011,4:15 pm

(jimhanson @ Aug. 09 2011,3:57 pm)
QUOTE
And now for a little levity on the subject--from Ann Coulter! :D

:rofl:
Posted by jimhanson on Aug. 10 2011,12:00 pm
The NY Slimes emphasized his "Christian" beliefs--though he appears to be anything BUT, as Coulter points out.

She also says sarcastically that he admitted to reading the NYT--and that perhaps the headline SHOULD be "NYT reader kills Dozens in Norway!" :sarcasm:  :D

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 10 2011,12:56 pm
You get your news from Ann Coulter now? :rofl:

I think I'll stick with the well known facts published by many news organizations that say he's a right wing Christian.

Posted by Stone-Magnon on Aug. 10 2011,1:02 pm
It always goes right over Jims head...



Posted by jimhanson on Aug. 11 2011,2:00 pm
Libbie obviously believes the NY Slimes--despite its history of falsifying stories and its mastery of spin.

From Coulter--

QUOTE
In fact, however, Americans who jumped to conclusions about Hasan were right and New York Times reporters who jumped to conclusions about Breivik were wrong.

True, in one lone entry on Breivik's gaseous 1,500-page manifesto, "2083: A European Declaration of Independence," he calls himself "Christian." But unfortunately he also uses a great number of other words to describe himself, and these other words make clear that he does not mean "Christian" as most Americans understand the term. (Incidentally, he also cites The New York Times more than a half-dozen times.)

Had anyone at the Times actually read Breivik's manifesto, they would have seen that he uses the word "Christian" as a handy moniker to mean "European, non-Islamic" -- not a religious Christian or even a vague monotheist. In fact, at several points in his manifesto, Breivik stresses that he has a beef with Christians for their soft-heartedness. (I suppose that's why the Times is never worried about a "Christian backlash.")

A casual perusal of Breivik's manifesto clearly shows that he uses the word "Christian" similarly to the way some Jewish New Yorkers use it to mean "non-Jewish." In this usage, Christopher Hitchens and Madalyn Murray O'Hair are "Christians."

I told a Jewish gal trying to set me up with one of her friends once that he had to be Christian, and she exclaimed that she had the perfect guy: a secular Muslim atheist. (This was the least-popular option on the '60s board game Dream Date, by the way).

Breivik is very clear that you don't even have to believe in God
to join his movement, saying in a self-interview:

Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus.


He goes on to say that a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" is "everything we DO NOT want," and a "secular European society" is "what we DO want."

"It is enough," Breivik says, "that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist." That statement doesn't even make sense in America.

At the one and only meeting of Breivik's "Knights Templar" in London in 2002, there were nine attendees, three of whom he describes as "Christian atheists" and one as a "Christian agnostic." (Another dozen people mistook it for a Renaissance Faire and were turned away.)

Breivik clearly explains that his "Knights Templar" is "not a religious organization but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order." He even calls on the "European Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu community" to join his fight against "the Islamization of Europe."

He doesn't believe in Christianity or want anyone else to, but apparently supports celebrating Christmas simply to annoy Muslims.

Breivik says he is "not an excessively religious man," brags that he is "first and foremost a man of logic," calls himself "economically liberal" and reveres Darwinism.
But Times reporters had their "Eureka!" moment as soon as they heard Breivik used the word "Christian" someplace to identify himself. No one at the Times bothered to read Breivik's manifesto to see that he doesn't use the term the way the rest of us do. That might have interfered with the paper's obsessive Christian-bashing.


Similarly, Breivik says in his manifesto that "it is essential that science take an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings" –- a statement that would be incomprehensible to all the real scientists, such as Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Bacon, Newton, Mendel, Pasteur, Planck, Einstein and Pauli, all of whom believed the whole purpose of science was to understand God.



She captures HIS OWN WORDS--and the Slimes took the ONLY reference out of 1500 pages to label him "Christian." :crazy:

That's the whole point of the title of her piece--based on the number of references, he SHOULD be labeled a "NYTimes Reader"--after all, the shooter reference the TIMES SIX TIMES!

Coulter has made a very successful career out of mocking liberals and their institutions with their own words.  Fortunately for her, it's EASY.

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 11 2011,2:28 pm
Is it as EASY as mocking someone that's goofy enough to get their news from Ann "man hands" Coulter?

He self identifies as a Christian on his facebook page. :dunce:

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 11 2011,3:57 pm

(Liberal @ Aug. 10 2011,12:56 pm)
QUOTE
You get your news from Ann Coulter now? :rofl:

I think I'll stick with the well known facts published by many news organizations that say he's a right wing Christian.

Unable to discern news from commentary?  :dunno:  How can he be labelled a Christian when he states he has no relationship with Jesus Christ?  Because of his fascination with the Knights Templar?  Even then, his vision hallucination of an initiation ceremony has no cross, only a skull, sword and candle.

He gives no indication of being a Christian other than using the word as a vision of the crusades.  A more correct indication of his theology would be of Norse mythology.

Posted by Wolfie on Aug. 11 2011,3:59 pm
All hail the gold standard of reference standards "facebook".  You are such an idiot.
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 11 2011,5:21 pm
See if I can explain this to Chester, if I read on your facebook profile that you like little boys then the reference would not be Facebook, the reference would be your writing on facebook. Get it?

And you call me an idiot? :rofl:

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 11 2011,5:31 pm
Lapdog Maddog, the person using a commentator as a source would be your "Jimmy", that's the only person quoting Coulter the commentator. So, if anyone is confused about commentators and news it you and your Jimmy.

Apparently you didn't read much of his 1500 page manifesto, and you apparently missed the part where he declares that he's "100% Christian".

At least you kooks have given up on trying to claim the facebook page was a forgery. Apparently you kooks thought a liberal created that fake page even though it was last edited 4 days before the shootings. :dunce:

Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Aug. 11 2011,11:17 pm
Found this little gem.  Might be fitting here.  :rofl:
Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 12 2011,7:00 am
Liberal, you're absolutely right on his claim that he is a Christian.  I have been given no authority to say he is not.   When Breivik or you for that matter, proclaim your Christian faith, I must accept that.
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 12 2011,11:04 am
Thank you, I agree that we have no authority to question whether someone is lying about being a believer in Christianity. Although I will admit that even though this goofy bastard prayed to God for help in the killings, and claimed to be 100% Christian, there is nothing Christian about what he did.

In fact I would bet Father Guido Sarducci is more of a believer in Christ's teachings than the Norway shooter.

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