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The Weekly Vice Opinion:

Well, we're going to stop the report right there. If the prosecutor filing the charges can't see these teens serving any jail time - or paying any substantial fine - then what's the point? Mr. Prosecutor, this wobbly kneed approach wouldn't have anything to do with the photos above would it?

Had these two girls been haggard old trolls with moles on their eyelids and a few teeth missing, we suspect you'd be more motivated to send a clearer message.

While we suspect the prosecutor sees this all as giggly-girl fun, we don't quite view it that way. Good God, fingers up a seniors rectum? Come on dude, grow a pair.

Thus far we have the names and some of the MySpace profiles of a few of the juveniles involved. We're going to withhold that information for now - considering a director or manager should have gotten their fat ass off a chair and paid closer attention to what was going on in that facility.

Great management, Good Samaritan. You certainly fail.

Danny Vice
The Weekly Vice
< http://www.theweeklyvice.com[/QUOTE] >

Posted by GEOKARJO on Dec. 02 2008,6:27 pm

Once again our little intersection in life gets national attention :blush:

Posted by GEOKARJO on Dec. 02 2008,6:34 pm

Did I say national hell this story has gone world wide. Here is link to the Australia network news MSNBC

< http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=678090 >

Posted by Elk Hunter on Dec. 02 2008,6:38 pm

Are some of you suggesting these actions are the parents' fault? These girls are old enough to know right from wrong, and they are accountable for thier own actions.

I am sure the parents feel terrible, and they may blame themselves to some extent. However, unless you know for a fact that any of these particular parents neglected or abused their kids, blaming the parents is out of line. I get sick of people always trying to blame someone else -- including parents. I know quite a number of kids that had terrible family situations, but are doing just fine. On the other hand, I know one particular family that has the best mom and dad -- really wonderful, caring, generous, responsible parents. Two of their kids are great -- much like the parents. Yet one of the girls started getting into all sorts of trouble in 11th grade -- hanging out with the wrong crowd, drugs, skip school, etc. Parents tried everything to help her -- tough love, counseling, take away priviledges, etc. None of it has provided the needed solution -- yet they will keep trying.

God, I hope none of my kids ever turn out like that -- or like one of these girls. As parents, we do the best we can, but sometimes that is not good enough.

My thoughts and prayers go to the parents and the families of not only the victoms, but also the perps. Those families are in a living hell right now . . . one I only pray to never have to go through.

Place all of the blame where it belongs -- on the girls that did these things. A slightly lesser amount on those that knew what was happening but did nothing. And a slightly lesser amount on the girls superiors IF it turns out that they were neglecting to properly monitor their subordinates.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 02 2008,9:35 pm

Little bratts need to get as good as they gave! Lock them up at Good Sam's and make them dependent for their survival on the care of those they abused!

Posted by Lea Albert on Dec. 02 2008,10:03 pm

QUOTE

Ashton Larson admitted that one time she put her hand over DT's mouth because she
would scream and scream. Stated that it might have been one time, "anger got like
over me".
< http://av.bninews.com/albertlea/images/tempcomp-12.pdf >

"anger got like over me" :crazy:

Side note: Geo your adds are annoying. :hairpull:

Posted by howie on Dec. 02 2008,10:10 pm

(Scarlet @ Dec. 02 2008,6:58 am)

QUOTE

Two of the girls' mother's work at Good Samaritan. One is a CNA and the other is in a higher position. One of the girls' is the daughter of the town psychologist who has an "institute of wellness." That's about as much as I know right now.

I know we are all supposed to hate the Tribune here, but there is difference in the standards of what they print and what gets posted here. Not saying this is bad, but hoping people realize you can't believe everything that is posted.

To bring in a family that is no way related to this is just BS.

Posted by howie on Dec. 02 2008,10:12 pm

(Botto 82 @ Dec. 02 2008,5:52 pm)

QUOTE

So what of the original idea put forth that these girls were the progeny of well-connected wealthy folks?

Good point. People play that card too often. I would argue that the "well connected" people are often held to a higher standard more often than a lower one.

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 02 2008,10:13 pm

I only responded to someone asking who the parents were and that is what someone else had told me. the source was apparently wrong on the larson girl but, the other two are actual facts.

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 02 2008,10:16 pm

Also I guess I missed the pre-requisite that you must hate the tribune to be part of this forum.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 02 2008,10:20 pm

Do any of the posters on this thread have evidence about this case that Mr. Nelson would not? If so, then SPEAK UP! That's probably the ONLY way he could increase the charges.

If you believe he is NOT doing his job, then you would have to be able to PROVE that he did not apply the evidence to charges appropriately. Otherwise it is my opinion that Mr. Nelson is filing the charges appropriately according to MN Statutes. I don't think this would have anything to do with favoritism.

A prosecutor can only do so much, even in a case like this, no matter how disgusted people are with the "girls" and their criminal behavior. You want the "book thrown at them..." yet according to the law and sentencing guidelines, that's not going to happen.

A case like this COULD have the POTENTIAL to CHANGE laws and make crimes of ABUSE less tolerable and more punishable in MN.

Here is an example of how the MN Statute applies to one of the charges:

609.2325 CRIMINAL ABUSE.
Subdivision 1.Crimes.

(a) A caregiver who, with intent to produce physical or mental pain or injury to a vulnerable adult, subjects a vulnerable adult to any aversive or deprivation procedure, unreasonable confinement, or involuntary seclusion, is guilty of criminal abuse and may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 3.

This paragraph does not apply to therapeutic conduct.

(b) A caregiver, facility staff person, or person providing services in a facility who engages in sexual contact or penetration, as defined in section 609.341, under circumstances other than those described in sections 609.342 to 609.345, with a resident, patient, or client of the facility is guilty of criminal abuse and may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 3.
Subd. 2.Exemptions.

For the purposes of this section, a vulnerable adult is not abused for the sole reason that:

(1) the vulnerable adult or a person with authority to make health care decisions for the vulnerable adult under sections 144.651, 144A.44, chapter 145B, 145C, or 252A, or sections 253B.03 or 524.5-101 to 524.5-502, refuses consent or withdraws consent, consistent with that authority and within the boundary of reasonable medical practice, to any therapeutic conduct, including any care, service, or procedure to diagnose, maintain, or treat the physical or mental condition of the vulnerable adult or, where permitted under law, to provide nutrition and hydration parenterally or through intubation; this paragraph does not enlarge or diminish rights otherwise held under law by:

(i) a vulnerable adult or a person acting on behalf of a vulnerable adult, including an involved family member, to consent to or refuse consent for therapeutic conduct; or

(ii) a caregiver to offer or provide or refuse to offer or provide therapeutic conduct;

(2) the vulnerable adult, a person with authority to make health care decisions for the vulnerable adult, or a caregiver in good faith selects and depends upon spiritual means or prayer for treatment or care of disease or remedial care of the vulnerable adult in lieu of medical care, provided that this is consistent with the prior practice or belief of the vulnerable adult or with the expressed intentions of the vulnerable adult; or

(3) the vulnerable adult, who is not impaired in judgment or capacity by mental or emotional dysfunction or undue influence, engages in consensual sexual contact with: (i) a person, including a facility staff person, when a consensual sexual personal relationship existed prior to the caregiving relationship; or (ii) a personal care attendant, regardless of whether the consensual sexual personal relationship existed prior to the caregiving relationship.
Subd. 3.Penalties.

(a) A person who violates subdivision 1, paragraph (a), may be sentenced as follows:

(1) if the act results in the death of a vulnerable adult, imprisonment for not more than 15 years or payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both;

(2) if the act results in great bodily harm, imprisonment for not more than ten years or payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both;

(3) if the act results in substantial bodily harm or the risk of death, imprisonment for not more than five years or payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both; or

(4) in other cases, imprisonment for not more than one year or payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.

(b) A person who violates subdivision 1, paragraph (b), may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.
History:

1995 c 229 art 2 s 3; 1996 c 408 art 10 s 11; 2004 c 146 art 3 s 43

Copyright © 2008 by the Office of the Revisor of Statutes, State of Minnesota. All rights reserved.

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 02 2008,10:30 pm

What's your point?

Do you really think that if these were young men they wouldn't serve jail time? They'd be in jail, or out on bail right now.

Posted by howie on Dec. 02 2008,10:44 pm

(Scarlet @ Dec. 02 2008,10:13 pm)

QUOTE

I only responded to someone asking who the parents were and that is what someone else had told me. the source was apparently wrong on the larson girl but, the other two are actual facts.

But if people don't take the time to check your "facts" they are going to think that the other Larson Family is involved. Your post was and is irresponsible.

Posted by bobber on Dec. 02 2008,11:30 pm

This is so sad, so sad, I have known these girls forever. Young dumb and stupid. You can fight amoungst yourselves. Yes they should pay for what they have done. This isn't the end of the world which you all think it should be for them, what if it were your daughter, think about it. But you are all p[robly to good for that to happen in your family, my kids grew up with these kids, sopose this makes my kids bad to you instigators wait till all is said and done. What a shame for the victoms and the young girls but thanks to you all they should be hung before court!!!! Yes they will pay, especially you that saw them at dinner, didn't you have the balls to go ask them why they were having a good time, then shut up!!!!!!!! Justice will come not from you all. There is no excuse for this and they will deal with this the rest of their lives and all their family members isn't that enough!!!!. Wern't you young dumb and stupid at one time?

Not saying in this same situation which is unacceptabel!!!! leave this to the court not to you, worry about your own kids, do you know where they are now!!!!!! Might blow your mind Maybe you should all go to the court house and here it for yourself before you make another comment think about it quit your crap and let justice prevale not you!!!!! Are you the judge? Then shut up. Until you have all your facts dont speak. Dont get me wrong they will do their time, so will there families, dont make it any harder just because you dont know them and you are perfect. Think about this the next time your kid f_cks up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! family suffers :rockon:

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 02 2008,11:33 pm

< http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1202081minn1.html >

the entire ALBERT LEA POLICE REPORT
8 PAGES OF THE MOST DISTRUBING CONFESSIONS PF HUMAN BRUTALITY

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 02 2008,11:34 pm

SCROLL DOWN ON FIRST PAGE TO START POLICE REPORT
< http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1202081minn1.html >

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 02 2008,11:57 pm

SCROLL DOWN ON FIRST PAGE TO START POLICE REPORT
< http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1202081minn1.html >

This report describes in full detail the 2 knowing girls, there are 6 more with no name released yet. The other girl is morgan walton, along with brianna brotizman, and Ashton larson. No ONE should have endured what these people did. It describes in full DETAIL what happened. The albert lea tribune LEFT out alot of information!!! I think EVERYONE should read this than see if you have any remorse for these beasts we call young ladies. I have never read anything more tasteless. It brought tears to my eyes. May GOD bless the residents and families. After reading the police report they tortured those residents. Craig I hope you lose your job. I hope anyone who reads this police report knows NOTHING but the truth these girls confessed to. NOW lets see if they are innocent once the WHOLE COMMUNITY sees their very OWN CONFESSIONS!!!

Posted by bobber on Dec. 03 2008,12:12 am

What do you think you are going to expose them any more than they are by bolding their names maybe you should apply for a job there and oversee everything apparently the person that was soposed to didn't. Kids wil do what they can get away with what a great place to work. Do what ever you want and get paid you need to apply there and oversee all young workers and get a life

Posted by Botto 82 on Dec. 03 2008,1:21 am

If this were to go to jury trial, I would be able to excuse a great many here from jury duty with cause, and without ever using a peremptory.

However horrid the charges, however much international exposure this story has gained, let me remind you that one in this country is innocent of all charges until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Hold off on the torches and pitchforks for a bit, 'k?

Posted by hairhertz on Dec. 03 2008,1:50 am

I read as much as I could. Ugly stuff. Arrogant little sh*ts.

I am surprised the charges were only gross misdomeanors. Had a male committed these acts would they have been charged the same?

I pray that, if convicted, these two receive the maximum penalty.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 03 2008,2:12 am

(Botto 82 @ Dec. 03 2008,1:21 am)

QUOTE

If they are confessing to the crimes. There is little doubt that they commited them or need for a jury trial.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 03 2008,2:25 am

Yes this case is going to receive world wide attention. Because the question keeps popping into peoples heads. How could so many random young girls in a small midwestern town, be involved in this? Let alone be meeting afterwards to laugh about it and think its cool.

Is it the parents fault, the schools fault, my fault your fault, all our faults as a society?

Its the easy accesability to pornography on the internet and other venues that is causing this type of behavior. Not just here, but most probably everywhere across our land.

Tell me how can pornography be legally produced in the united states? It should well fall under the catagory of prostitution. When you pay for sex, and thats what it is. And thats what they do, is pay people to have sex and film it. It's obviously illegal under the laws we now posses.

But just like the deadly killers and home wreckers, alcahol and cigarettes. It is allowed, because of the big profit and all the state sponsored addicts.

I remember one of the russian leaders decades ago, said they would take america without firing a shot. That it would collapse because of it's own decadence.

This is one of those situations, that is tearing directly at our moral fiber, our work ethic, and sense of fair play and well being. It must be put to rest, and we must see things for what they are...

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 03 2008,2:31 am

It's monkey see monkey do.

It's just like when I was kid, watching Star Trek. I use to go out and pretend I was in star fleet. I dreamed almost every night of finding a phaser or teleporting.

Just like when I saw the trinity westerns (my name is nobody), I wanted to go sit in a tree with a six gun and eat beans all day.

Today, young children are watching pornograpy not star trek or westerns.

Anybody any age can access anytime.

Like this site < http://pornotube.com/ >

Just list yourself as any age over 18 (weather you are or not), and viola, you have endless free streaming porno vid on demand. for anyone any age, any mentality. And no one cares, or sees the obvious.

Keep things as they are, and these girls and these types of crimes won't be a abhorint spectical, they WILL be the NORM!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,3:21 am

This whole case is just bazaar on so many levels.

*Possibly the oddest being the fact that the perps implicated themselves. They provided the prosecution with all the evidence that'll be used against them. Why on earth would they even consider talking to the police about anything? They hung themselves. It's a good argument for mitigation in sentencing.

*The beauty and youth of the perps and the sexual themes involved. A lot of what they admit seems mean, like some kind of teasing stemming from boredom and dislike of their jobs.
But other things are definitely sexual. Look, I was 18-19 and so were you. I know how much sex is on the brain at that age and can remember having the most perverted thoughts about the coed sitting in front of me in class, but I don't ever remember thinking about dry-humping, masturbating or shoving my crotch in the faces of very old demented people. In fact, that would probably be one thought that would've killed an erection, even at 19!

Was it really sexual in nature or was it simply more mean spirited teasing?

Yes, there's a double standard involved here, but the answer is not to be as hard on the girls as we are on the boys. We should treat males caught in this circumstance the same way.

Perhaps we should just realize that crimes involving sex (that isn't pedophilia or rape) aren't as bad as murder.

Spock, I've also wondered how society would be effected by a first ever time in history, on a mass scale, that most kids had easy access to porn from a very young age. And frankly my Vulcan friend, if it means super cute teen hotties putting their bare arse in my face I'm all for it! But that's just me. :angel:

I had access to porn in print form from my mid to early teens, perhaps even a little earlier. Of course, in those days you had to weave your way through a tangled web of pubic hair and hazy focus photography... :blush:

But, when Larry Flint finally let us really see it, it was a sight to behold. And the angels sang... :laugh:

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,3:54 am

That's Brianna on the right rocking the Geisha girl make-up.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,5:47 am

Here's a cute little picture.. If you read the reports this will make sense to you... From left to right: Ashton Larson, Kaylee Nash, Brianna Broitzman, Alicia Heilman, and the far right Morgan Walton.

Posted by Old Cracker on Dec. 03 2008,8:31 am

(Scarlet @ Dec. 02 2008,10:13 pm)

QUOTE

I only responded to someone asking who the parents were and that is what someone else had told me. the source was apparently wrong on the larson girl but, the other two are actual facts.

You slandered the wrong family. Thousands of people from all around the world read that yesterday. You should call Dr. Larson and say you are sorry.

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 03 2008,9:03 am

Yes maybe I will.

Posted by Old Cracker on Dec. 03 2008,9:16 am

(Scarlet @ Dec. 03 2008,9:03 am)

QUOTE

Yes maybe I will.

I know I'm old and cranky. That tells me you are a good person. :clap:

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,9:26 am

Well Bogus I hope your proud of yourself. Why don't you post who you are. How old are you? Did you think about the consequences before you posted that picture?
There is a reason the police didn't release the other names. You better hope that your right with your accusation or you could have just ruined a girls life. What about the unnamed girl in that picture. There's free speech and then there's libel.

How many posters and readers are calling and harassing these girls now? If you are I want to know what makes you think you are any better than these girls.

I bet if you called the police dept. you'd find out that these girls haven't even been formally charged.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,10:22 am

Getting phone calls at home Newbie? When pics are posted on the internet they are there for life and accessable by most everyone who has the savy to search for them, they become public. It looks as though they seem to be touchy feely with even with their friends.

Posted by GEOKARJO on Dec. 03 2008,10:30 am

(Lea Albert @ Dec. 02 2008,10:03 pm)

QUOTE

Side note: Geo your adds are annoying. :hairpull:

Sorry but it is working and I need the business. I will try to spread my post out more so they are not so annoying

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,11:43 am

(countryboy @ Dec. 03 2008,9:22 am)

QUOTE

No. I don't live in your state.

I just don't understand how some supposed adults that are reading and posting here can justify their behavior. It doesn't help anyone involved when people are overly emotional, self-righteous and judgmental.
"He without sin cast the first stone"
Adults post "what were these girls thinking".
Reading posts here, on the tribune and other places makes me wonder, What the hell some of these adults are thinking posting some of the hateful and hurtful things in anger.
Glass houses people, do you feel the shards falling around you.
I'm sure the victims families are grateful to you all for defending they're loved ones with such hatred.
Makes Christians everywhere proud.

You've all pretty much guaranteed they will all get plea bargained. :clap:

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,11:49 am

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,11:43 am)

QUOTE

You've all pretty much guaranteed they will all get plea bargained. :clap:

Do you feel that the comments that Mr. Nelson said are a just penalty with your hands clapping? I certainly hope not, these girls did a VERY VERY dispickable thing and by there own addmision have admitted to it during interviews (read the report). I guarantee there is no other case similar to this in the US that would be as lienent as our county prosecutor is expecting he will give them. ANYONE who thinks that what these girls did is ok (any type of support for them) really needs to see a specialist.

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,12:05 pm

(countryboy @ Dec. 03 2008,10:49 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,11:43 am)

QUOTE

You've all pretty much guaranteed they will all get plea bargained. :clap:

I have read the reports. Just because I can sympathize with all sides does not mean I need a specialist.

The hand clapping was for all the people making it impossible to have a trial in Albert Lea, good job. The jury pool is good and tainted.
With the hostile posts I'm sure people are harassing the accused which means they'll probably want to end this case quickly.

Yes mob mentality works every time.

Like I posted before
"But what does anyone care about justice as long as they can gossip, make judgments and be self-righteous."

Everything about this situation is disturbing and sad.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,12:14 pm

The posts in this particular subject were not mine, but a family members. They told me about it afterward. After reading them, I am quite okay and rather proud about how this has affected this family member. She was a classmate of these girls and was friends with several of them through sports and activities involving school. Other than posting the pic, which was one she happened to have. I probably would have written relatively the same thing. Proud of her!!! Just thought I would put that out there. But, next time I told her to register and come up with her own handle. :rockon:

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,12:26 pm

(allergic to bogus @ Dec. 03 2008,11:14 am)

QUOTE

To each their own. Can't say I'd be proud of my daughter for spreading gossip.

Do you have any sympathy for any of these girls' family members? You obviously know who they are.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,12:38 pm

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,12:26 pm)

QUOTE

Do you have any sympathy for any of these girls' family members? You obviously know who they are.

I would love to meet them and ask a few questions. Like what are your views on this situation? Is what your family member did right or wrong? What do you feel the punishment should be? Them answering these questions would tell a great deal on what type of values they have in life.

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,12:52 pm

(countryboy @ Dec. 03 2008,11:38 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,12:26 pm)

QUOTE

Do you have any sympathy for any of these girls' family members? You obviously know who they are.

How would you feel if you were one of the parents?

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,12:56 pm

QUOTE

You need to read the entire police report... on the smokinggun.com
these girls actions are horrific. They admitted to the allegations!!! Those involved are guilty!!! NO remorse they laughed, they found it funny!!! Those of you who have opinons of proven innocent till proven guilty. READ THE POLICE REPORT!!! There is alot in that story that was left out from the tribune and news channels. WHat those girls did, I hope they learn a very hard lesson in life. This goes out to all parents... how well do you know your child?

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,1:01 pm

QUOTE

Do you have any sympathy for any of these girls' family members? You obviously know who they are.

I would love to meet them and ask a few questions. Like what are your views on this situation? Is what your family member did right or wrong? What do you feel the punishment should be? Them answering these questions would tell a great deal on what type of values they have in life.

Empathy... these girls drinking underage, molesting vulnerable adults, torturing them... 8 teens involved... Where the hell are the morals. Each one involved knew right from wrong. The parents they should be asking questions, monitoring cell phones, checking what is going on in these young peoples lives. WHERE were they? If they want to act like adults, let them be tried as adults. Are you even a parent? Thats what happens to kids whose parents are their firends.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,1:04 pm

obviously, i do. And I also have in the past welcomed several of these girls into my home. I also taught my children to respect their elders. I guess it stuck. Put yourself in my place for a minute. i knew almost all of the accused. Did i know that they had this sick perverse side to them? No. If my child were one of them would I feel differently. Of course. Anyone would. I would support and listen to her. But, certainly not condone her actions. Get real!!!
One is responsible for their own actions in the end. My children are no different and if you knew even one of them, and asked them, that is what they would say... I honestly can say that I instilled that in each of them. Not to put the blame on their decisions on others. No matter what.
I think it angers her as it does me that we invited them into our home in the past not knowing what they were capable of. If you take this as a slam to them. So be it. Just being honest to our feelings. I sympathize with their families, but, never as much as I do with the residents and their families, they are the victims here!!!

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,1:11 pm

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,12:52 pm)

QUOTE

How would you feel if you were one of the parents?

Absolutely disgusted, I am a parent, I would never stop loving my child and will try to support him with everything I have. I, however, would allow the courts to impose a penalty and jailtime on my child if he were to ever do such a horrific act ( I hope that I am raising him with moral values and to respect his elders ). He would also be on his own for legal representation, let me stress I would be there for him, but some of lifes lessons require tough love. Call it old fashion if you will.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,1:13 pm

< null >

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,1:16 pm

(bluebunny @ Dec. 03 2008,12:01 pm)

QUOTE

Yes I am a parent.

I'm sure you never drank underage.

I read all the reports.

Do you feel better now?
Don't fall off your high horse. Wouldn't want you to get hurt.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,1:19 pm

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,1:20 pm

(countryboy @ Dec. 03 2008,12:11 pm)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,12:52 pm)

QUOTE

How would you feel if you were one of the parents?

Well then you probably know how the parents feel.

Now how would you feel as a parent about things people are posting about your child?

Posted by Gabe on Dec. 03 2008,1:21 pm

I have to admit My children are not angels I have been very disappointed in my children's choice at times and proud of their accomplishments.

It is a good thing they have a mother who loves them and can forgive them easier than I find I am able to do. My wife tells me not the yell at the kid so I talk very firm and very loud telling him how big a screw up he is.

It doesn't do any good they are right back out there doing the same crap

:frusty:

I never set an example of alcohol and drug use or stealing so why does the child take that road. Is it peer pressure? Is it the school? Who the heck knows.

Don't blame the parents for loving them. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your family.

Posted by Robert Hoffman on Dec. 03 2008,1:25 pm

...i hope the hell nobody is sticking up for these lil spoiled snots at all! :frusty:

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,1:28 pm

(allergic to bogus @ Dec. 03 2008,12:04 pm)

QUOTE

Put yourself in their place for minute. How do you think their parents and extended family feels since your family decided to post pictures and make comments before they are even charged with anything. Or the fact that your family has decided they are all guilty without knowing all the facts.
Nice to know how fickle your friendships are. Yes we are all responsible for our actions.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,1:54 pm

Fickle? hard to put myself in their place, any more than I would be able to put myself in your place. You need to once again be reminded that they put themselves in that place. Anyone who has worked in a care facility would know what to do and what not to do. I might add that there are also other victims in this situation. Why don't you put yourself in their place??? The Good Samaratan Center and all the dedicated employees that work there and know how to treat the residents!!! Stop victimizing the accused. And, i will not feel bad about any postings. Did she indeed say which of these people were or were not involved. One only apparently has to go to transcripts to acess the initials. Do your homework, don't expect others to do it for you. And,yes I know the names, part of my job was to release them to other care facilities. And, yes, several had bragged that they would just get jobs at others facilities. And, legally, they can in Ia. and other surrounding states. Now, heres a question for you...in the meanwhile, would you be comfortable with someone who admitted to authorities that she stuck her finger up a residents rectum and stroked them while the other put her bare a** on their face working with a incapacitated loved one of yours???

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,2:01 pm

I would!

In a heartbeat.

Posted by peachtart on Dec. 03 2008,2:03 pm

thinks back to when you were a teenager, would you of turned in your friends....NO...........the 2 girls brianna and ashton, yes they did the worse thing they could of done,,the other 4 have not been charged yet that i know of...the 4 new what was going on, but i can ask myself as a teen would i turn in my friends,,,,,,,,,,,NO!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,2:04 pm

Like we are surprised by that??? :dunce:

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,2:17 pm

I'd like to know if Brianna needs a job. I'd gladly pay her ten times what she was making at Good Sams to be my personal assistant and care-giver.

This employer doesn't care about any pending charges or criminal record.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 03 2008,2:18 pm

I think all the girls should just get hung...

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,2:20 pm

(Newbie @ Dec. 03 2008,1:20 pm)

QUOTE

Well then you probably know how the parents feel.

Now how would you feel as a parent about things people are posting about your child?

Everyone has the right to make these comments, as do you have the right to defend the actions of these people and think we have no passion and mob mentality. There would be nothing I could do, other than sit back and listen (because I have no control over other peoples feelings and thoughts about this absolutely dispicable case). I don't know what it is that you are smoking, but please share with us, as we don't have the "its OK to do this" feelings you do.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 03 2008,2:20 pm

They girls are VERY lucky my dad was not at good sam the same time period they were......

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 03 2008,2:23 pm

We had good values back when I was a teenager and yes, if one of my friends told me what they were doing to people, I would have reported them because I would NOT have wanted to be known to have associated with that person.
Peach, If they did a survey right now with 100 teenagers, and they all knew about the complete police reports, etc., I would Like to think and hope that most would turn in their friends.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 03 2008,2:25 pm

gotta love Albert Lea

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,3:00 pm

This story just broke into the major media:
< http://abcnews.go.com/ >

Posted by hairhertz on Dec. 03 2008,3:04 pm

Sometimes that 15 minutes of "fame" really sucks. :dunce:

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,3:22 pm

I think this story has the potential to stick with Albert Lea for a long time, and a lienent sentence will likely not go over too well with the rest of the country.

Posted by fredbear on Dec. 03 2008,3:22 pm

Yep - its going to wipe out all that massive positive attention we got from the Makeover house. :rofl:

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 03 2008,3:24 pm

(fredbear @ Dec. 03 2008,3:22 pm)

QUOTE

Yep - its going to wipe out all that massive positive attention we got from the Makeover house. :rofl:

That is the first time I have smiled throughout this whole story. Good one.

Posted by Ike on Dec. 03 2008,3:37 pm

< http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460626,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime >

Its a great day for Albert Lea on the national scale.

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 03 2008,3:58 pm

And we thought the mayor scandal was news!

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,4:15 pm

You are all so angry that you accuse and judge people who have empathy for all involved. Well if it makes you all feel better to bash me and make accusations fine. I would rather be a person who can think logically and view things from others' point of views. I hope my children learn that from me rather than hate from others.

Compassion does not equal to being okay with immorality.

Logic tells me that they are accusations and there are other facts that everyone is not aware of and that teenagers lie. Not all of the girls are accused of the same things. Finding them guilty in the court of opinion is not going to give anyone justice.

I hope Albert Lea is being poorly represented by the hate being spread around online for the world to read.

The world is truly a sad place when there is no compassion left.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,4:23 pm

The mayor story? Naw, that was nothing. This ones the real deal because the pictures and circumstance makes you want to know more about these girls. It makes you wonder why there's such a double standard between sexes. Sure, the initial impact is one of anger, but these are relatively young people.
Brianna actually needs a very good lawyer at this point since virtually the whole prosecution is based on her own statements. She's certainly getting tarred and feathered in public. The really damaging thing to these girls in the long run is the relentless search engine. For decades, if not life, their names will bring up this episode. It's not going to be as fun when your a 35 year old hockey mom whose gotta be reminded and embarrassed, yet one more time, of that youthful mistake.

Posted by Robert Hoffman on Dec. 03 2008,5:17 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 03 2008,4:23 pm)

QUOTE

...of that youthful mistake.

MINNOW! ...youthful mistake??? that was some Nazi **** she was doing to people!

We've made youthful mistakes, what they did was soo wrong and soo selfish! and to soo undeserving of people.

I know yer point buddy, but these lil pris's are in for a ride I hope.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,5:25 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/QUOTE]thinks back to when you were a teenager, would you of turned in your friends....NO...........the 2 girls brianna and ashton, yes they did the worse thing they could of done,,the other 4 have not been charged yet that i know of...the 4 new what was going on, but i can ask myself as a teen would i turn in my friends,,,,,,,,,,,NO!!!!!!!!!! [QUOTE]

Then you are just as disturbed!!! Not tell? You are amazing!!! I would never think of the consequences when it came to torture of another person. The ones that knew, in my eyes are just as guilty!!! They should have told. Come on it was one big game. Hazing they said themselves it made work fun. Nothing justifys not telling. It goes to show the relationship with their parents and compassion as a person. If it was your daughter that had a finger in the rectum, a bare ass in her face, spit on, spit in the mouth, hands up her nose and mouth covered to stop her from screaming!!!! And her friend saw this and did not tell would you feel the same then? or if it was your grand child or even you? come on!!! People should be embrasses on all sides of the spectrum!!! I hope all parents including me start taking a look around at our children... at start DOING BETTER!!! I tell you if these were boys they'd be rapists. I hope all involved watch the hammer come down, on each and every party involved. If it was my mother or father in that home. I garantee I would let the world know each and every distrubing detail and I would make sure every community member knew the EXACT things that occured in those rooms!!! I truly think there will and is a PUBLIC out cry for JUSTICE!!! Lets see if they only recieve probation!!!

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,5:33 pm

QUOTE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are all so angry that you accuse and judge people who have empathy for all involved. Well if it makes you all feel better to bash me and make accusations fine. I would rather be a person who can think logically and view things from others' point of views. I hope my children learn that from me rather than hate from others.

Compassion does not equal to being okay with immorality.

Logic tells me that they are accusations and there are other facts that everyone is not aware of and that teenagers lie. Not all of the girls are accused of the same things. Finding them guilty in the court of opinion is not going to give anyone justice.

I hope Albert Lea is being poorly represented by the hate being spread around online for the world to read.

The world is truly a sad place when there is no compassion left.

YOu have to be kidding me either your one who knows these distrubed young girls or you have not read in detail each ones confession!!! Hate? What they did was a hate crime, bullying, hazing, a fun game!!! A good time made work fun!!! Anger... every single person who knows or heard the strory should be screaming with anger!!! Outraged I say I don't hate those girls, what they did was wrong. They should pay for what they did to these people. They should ALL be SEX offenders and NEVER EVER able to work in the HUMAN SERVICE deptpartment ever again!!! They are molestors and rapists, and accessories to a crime... Which I don't think any of those six girls should have a misdemanor it is a FELONY!!!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 03 2008,6:51 pm

These are some of the funniest things I've seen written about this episode. I was laughing so hard I was crying.

QUOTE

Albert Lea, MN - The Good Samaritan Nursing Home in Albert Lea probably isn’t the best place to be if you have Alzheimer’s. Oh, sure, the nurse’s aides are pretty - but they’ll also spit in your mouth, sexually abuse you, and taunt you until you cry. Which would be fine if the girls were working at the Albert Lea Dominatrix Emporium, I guess, but doesn’t work out so well in the dementia unit.

QUOTE

I’d be inclined to think that this case was overblown if I were a casual reader. After all, these are two very pretty young white girls, right? They appear to be middle-class at least. Brianna’s old Myspace shows a pretty Albert Lea High School student - popular, on the dance team, not particularly horrid in any way.

But your favorite imp was a nurse in another life, and kids, let me tell ya - it’s not easy to get criminal charges filed in nursing home abuse cases. This investigation started in May after allegations of elder abuse were filed that dated back to January. We’re not talking about a two-week he-said she-said thing, here.

In early May, a teenage nurse’s aide was being fired from Good Samaritan for swearing in front of a resident. She decided not to go down alone, and blew the whistle on at least four other aides, alleging that they were routinely abusing their residents.

Good Samaritan immediately launched an investigation and reported the alleged abuse to the Minnesota Department of Health. The home also fired the other aides, which tells me that they were cleaning house in a CYA move - but also that they had reason to suspect the informant was telling the truth. Sounds to me like a few charge nurses shoulda gone with ‘em, but hey, that’s just me.

On August 28 of this year, the Minnesota Department of Health released their findings in their investigation of the abuse at Good Samaritan. The department investigated five aides and found that four of them, primarily Broitzman and Larson, abused fifteen residents repeatedly or witnessed “verbal, sexual and emotional” abuse and did nothing to stop it. The department filed a civil action to have the aides’ licenses pulled, and turned over their report to police.

The police investigation got a little broader and covered eight aides, of whom six have now been charged. Aside from Broitzman and Larson, the remaining four are being charged with legally mandated failure to report abuse - in other words, they knew what was happening and didn’t do anything. Two of the teens, Alicia Heilmann (Myspace) and Morgan Walton (Myspace) were juveniles when the crimes were committed, but are both now 18. They’re being tried in juvenile court.

During interviews with investigators, Brianna Broitzman admitted that she and Ashton Larson took photos and videos of residents for fun. She said that they also poked one female dementia patient in the breast. Ashton Larson was a bit more forthcoming, and admitted to various abuses including spitting, holding her hand over a resident’s mouth, dry-humping residents, sticking her finger in a resident’s anus, touching a resident’s ass, and getting in bed with residents. Er, what? Seriously? Ew. Just ewww, Ashton!

Other aides reported that most of the aides knew about the abuse, because it was discussed and laughed over at breaks. Several aides reported that Brianna and Ashton dispensed spankings to residents, teased them, and poked them in the genitals. One girl reported that Brianna mooned a resident up close, sticking her bare butt in the resident’s face, and that Ashton rubbed resident’s genitals in an attempt to get them sexually aroused. Okay, again… say what? Come on, now. And this went on for months without anyone saying a word until some kid got fired for cussing? Something was clearly very wrong at the Good Samaritan, y’all.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 03 2008,7:06 pm

Holy cow! What a busy day on the forum!

A few thoughts of mine...the assumption about if this would be different had it been teenage boys...I disagree. The thread wouldn't even be this long if that was the case.

Can these gals blame law enforcement or male behavior for what they have done? NO. However, even a guilty abusive man will claim when they are caught, "I'm being treated this way because I'm a man and not a woman." And, he'd have his "buddies" and all other males who think that way sympathizing with him.

Next, I keep hearing over and over again that the prosecution isn't doing their job? How is that? LOOK for yourselves...check into the MN STATUTES listed for offenses and see if the crime fits a higher charge. Prosecution can not charge a higher offensive crime if the evidence isn't there. I guess the police report is available to all who post here, so if you can find something to make the charges move from misdemeanor to felony, then for certain, call the prosecutor's office and bring it to their attention.

I'm not sure who mentioned the fact that this shouldn't even go to trial because of the gals admitting to the crimes. The gals are still allowed the right to a trial by jury. I'm not even sure if the jury gets to read the police reports, but instead will have to base their decision on the testimony of others involved in the investigation. I've never been a juror, but that's what I think happens.

Last, although I appreciate those that can offer empathy automatically to these gals, I am having difficulty not seeing this as enabling. At this point does anyone know if these gals have shown remorse, accountability or intend to progress forward in life by doing what is necessary to develop measurable change so they will never abuse another human being in this way again?

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,7:19 pm

Good post busybee, thanks!!!

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 03 2008,7:54 pm

ok what time is the Today Show on? I have to set my recorder.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 03 2008,7:59 pm

Newbie, Ever heard of mandated reporters? Every one of those employees is a mandated reporter. The others are guilty of not reporting it. They were bound by the law to do so, by not doing it they are considered guilty of breaking this law. Inoticed this aspect of it was not brought up.

Posted by obrut on Dec. 03 2008,8:06 pm

okay, let me get this straight?

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 03 2008,8:14 pm

im not from AL, but i was born and raised in southern mn. i found this forum via link on one i post on regulary in mankato.

ive read this entire thread- for all you lefties that think these girls need any mercy i just have 1 question and 1 statement...

wtf is wrong with you? they admitted their guilt.

they deserve nothing more than the fullest extent of the law. they are predators, plain and simple. furthermore, they are the worst kind of predators, sexual predators. you are what is wrong with minnesota today.

why do so many people in mn feel there is no need for personal responsibility??? :crazy:

can you say

?

btw-i love your emotiocon selection. best ive seen on any forum ive visited...

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 03 2008,8:38 pm

QUOTE

However, even a guilty abusive man will claim when they are caught, "I'm being treated this way because I'm a man and not a woman."

So why doesn't the guilty abusive women say the same thing? People say things like that for a reason, in this case it's because men are often treated worse than women who commit the same offense. This case is a perfect example of that. If it were men they would have been charged with something similar to this. ( as long as they don't work for the Freeborn County Sheriff's Office.)

< https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin....ar=2007 >

I wouldn't be surprised to see the County Attorney pull something like he did with the penis touching deputy that was allowed to plead guilty to disorderly conduct, or disturbing the peace for touching a teenage boy that was living in his house.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,9:18 pm

Why is Morgan Walton, Alicia Heilman, and Kaylee Nash not getting any spotlight? They are just as guilty!!! Ashton worked there for two years? Can you imagine the things they did, we don't know? I can tell you there is always more to the story. Those other girls are just as sick. I cannot imagine not speaking up, that then leads to believe they are just as guilty. The one that told NEVER told out of remorse, it was out of revenge that makes this whole thing even more disgusting!!!

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,9:22 pm

QUOTE

What is wrong with you? I would like to pay you a visit!!! You think this is so funny :angry:

Posted by Botto 82 on Dec. 03 2008,9:35 pm

What kills me is that Nelson is already talking probation/no jail time.

I guess prosecuting this case to the fullest extent of the law would cut into his drinking time...

Contrast these violations of the law and probation to what Boyenga's facing.

Abuse helpless old people = slap on the wrist.

Grow weed = hard prison time.

I'm talkin' smack 'cause that's WHACK!

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 03 2008,9:40 pm

I was with my mother-in-law before she died. She had been in the hospital and was being taken off heavy drugs. She was suffering from hallucinations and few in the family wanted to believe she was about to die. I was alone with her and she told me that she thought she had been in the company of her father and husband that day. Both men were long dead. She asked me if I thought she was crazy? I said no and that I was glad that they were looking out for her. She died the next day.

My father-in-law had gotten septic, and just about died. He was saved but never came back mentally. It was tragic because he had been a very exceptional attorney and watching him day by day loose his identity, and bodily functions was very hard to take. We were more than family, we were very good friends. He stopped talking, walking, then eating. He died a slow horrible death.

My mother suffered strokes. They took her down slowly, but in the end she was in a coma. Frozen in a fetal position with a tube to keep her hydrated. She died a month after she entered the coma.

My father suffered from COPD. We had a bet going as to who was going to be elected President that year. On November 1st of that year he called to say he wasn't going to make it but he could see that his guy wasn't going to be reelected and he was sending me my money. That night he stopped breathing. He was taken to the hospital and put on a ventilator. He spent a month in intensive care with that tube down his throat. By the end of November he had worked the tube out with his tongue and told the attendants that he wanted to go home to die. They allowed him to keep the tube out for two days but he started failing and the family had it put back in. He died anyway on December 1st.

Dyeing is not easy or pleasant for anyone but those of us blessed to live long lives it seem especially hard. Over the years I have changed my mind about those who have died young and suddenly, and I have experiance my share of these deaths too. But to be needlessly tormented in death is despicable. I hope these girls are blessed with long lives, and that they grow to understand their actions were not just wrong but evil. I also hope that at the end of their lives they are treated with the respect they failed to provide and that they remember how cruelly they treated their patients.

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,9:42 pm

(allergic to bogus @ Dec. 03 2008,6:59 pm)

QUOTE

Yes I know what that is. Why isn't the nurse who was told before Jan. being charged as well. She didn't do anything either.

The are many mandated reporters who don't report things that they hear from other people. Hearsay is hard to prove.

There is a difference between doing the acts and either being to scared to report or trying to report the acts. Nurses heard the rumors and did nothing.

I just can't lump all the girls in one group. We don't know if or how many times they might have tried to tell their superiors with no help.

I just think there is more to the story. The interviews seem to have holes in it when I read it.

I'm sure everyone will disagree with me again.

Posted by Newbie on Dec. 03 2008,9:47 pm

(bluebunny @ Dec. 03 2008,8:18 pm)

QUOTE

Because if they're going to be charged they would be charged as minor in juvenile court.

I'm sure there is more to the story. We don't know if any of them tried to tell they're superiors. If they did those superiors sure don't want anyone to know they did because that would mean they didn't do anything about.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 03 2008,9:52 pm

QUOTE

Dyeing is not easy or pleasant for anyone but those of us blessed to live long lives it seem especially hard. Over the years I have changed my mind about those who have died young and suddenly, and I have experiance my share of these deaths too. But to be needlessly tormented in death is despicable. I hope these girls are blessed with long lives, and that they grow to understand their actions were not just wrong but evil. I also hope that at the end of their lives they are treated with the respect they failed to provide and that they remember how cruelly they treated their patients.

I agree. I hope they seek forgiveness from all in this situation. I could not imagine how my heart would break if I knew my child did such an act. My God be in each and all of their hearts. I am sure they will learn a horriffic life lesson. My this be lesson to all parents reading and writting. We can all do better!!! As a community we can pull together and hope justice is served. We can be there for each other. Ithink alot of us have skeletons in our own closets, that we would just die if the came out. We NEED to do better with our children. I am sure that must of these families when all is said and done, will have to move due to all the torment they will and have recieved from the community. May this be a lesson to all of us!!!

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 03 2008,10:10 pm

My, the Tribune has been active the last couple days.

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Posted by masamba (anonymous) on December 2, 2008 at 11:27 p.m.

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Whew!

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This must be getting old by now.

QUOTE

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Just think of how diligent the Tribune staff must have to be to keep up with all of that.

< tribune >

Posted by bobber on Dec. 03 2008,10:51 pm

I have had enough, like I said you think they were having a meeting and having a good time. Put yourself in there pants!!!! Get over it, should have had the balls like I said to confront them. Shut up!!!!!!!!! You know nothing more than anybodyelse. Let the court handle it. Do you prey on this kind of crap and try to keep it going. Will end soon. You will be scrolling back in you Albert Lea.com files. Then what kind of sh-t will u start!!!!!!! You have to much time on your hands maybe they should hire you to be county prosecutor sit on you f-t a-- and make decisions you would be good at it you fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have a lovely evening Dont miss Albert Lea :rockon:

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 04 2008,12:06 am

(bobber @ Dec. 03 2008,10:51 pm)

QUOTE

What is this? Had a few too many?

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 04 2008,6:34 am

Being that it has been stated that most of this case is based on interviews given by those charged, has anyone ever thought that what is out before us may be only a fraction of what really took place. I question that what came out in the interviews are full, open and the complete story. Even though these girls are total air-heads, I believe they candy coated what they said in the interviews to protect their reputations :rofl:

I believe that one will find more of the story in the sealed juvenile interviews and the pictures now held in evidence, but even that may come up short of the complete story. I think we should be prepared for further shocks if these cases make it to trial and this information gets introduced.
So before following the bleeding hearts who are ready to forgive these girls because they look good, and they would like to be with a naughty girl; I think we should hold back to see what is yet to come.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 04 2008,6:39 am

So you don't believe they incriminated themselves enough? If you don't believe their story then you must acquit because it's this same story that's being used to prosecute them.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 04 2008,7:17 am

It was enough, but from reading the statements given buy the two, I got the feeling they don't have a clue! I also think they were holding back.

Posted by Old Cracker on Dec. 04 2008,7:31 am

(bluebunny @ Dec. 03 2008,9:52 pm)

QUOTE

We NEED to do better with our children.

How could they do worse with their children?
Whats wrong with you people? These parents deserve a lot of the blame. When I was young our parents taught us to respect adults and old people. My kids never played filthy sex games on old people. I hope and pray that justice is served for the victims and their familys. I hope the victims and their family's sue the holy crap out of Good Sam, the girls, and their family's. The question we should all be asking is: how could they have done worse?

:deadhorse:

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 04 2008,8:19 am

I agree Alfy. I think we will all be surprised if there isn't a lot more that happened.
If this was going on a minimum of 6 months, they would have had to do a lot more or they would have been bored (in my opinion).
And that even disgusts me more!

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 04 2008,8:34 am

< The Today Show >

Posted by ICU812 on Dec. 04 2008,9:02 am

At least it was only 5:40 long :sarcasm:

And with the national media attention I think if found guilty the odds of probation only is slipping away.

Posted by bianca on Dec. 04 2008,9:07 am

This whole thread is terribly disturbing.

I hadn't read it for quite some time due to that.

I, as many, have worked in a nursing home and have also had a grandparent being cared for in a nursing home before she passed away.

With that being said, I cannot even phathom how someone could condone what these girls have admitted to.....You speak of "high horses" Newbie? IMO, you might want to take a hard look in the mirror.

Whether you are a relative to one of these girls, friend, or whatever your ties are, these acts that these girls have displayed are so socially as well as morally corrupt and unacceptable in this country.

I don't think you ever answered any question of whether or not the shoe were on the other foot, would you feel the same?

These people "trust" that the massive amounts of money they pay to stay in these facilities are to actually "care" and "respect" these elderly folks. Many of these people worked their whole lives to end up having to see everything they worked for sold in order to receive this care. Many of them end up on medical assistance and they have their pride hurt from that and then this?!

I just can't conceive the notion that you can not or refuse to show compassion for the ones that had to endure this. There is NO WAY any of those residents deserved that treatment.

I suggest you take off the rose colored glasses when you read the reports and actually READ and ask yourself "if that were my parent/grandparent/ or even myself for that matter, that was being victimized/abused would I still feel the same about these kids actions?"

I can't imagine what would've happened had I known that any of my residents, family members or friends that I was trusted to care for had this done to them. Even if these girls apologized over and over again, I would have to have many conversations with God to ever forgive.

I feel so sorry for the family members of the residents that this happened to. I hope THEY have the strength to get through this, knowing how their loved ones were treated in their last days.

**Another point I wanted to make is for the ones that bring up "the negative media attention." Maybe, just maybe, the reason Albert Lea continues to get negative media attention is because they can't find people to do the jobs they are paid to do. When people get tired of hearing the negative, maybe they should try to do something to get these people out of our town and working somewhere else where the negativity follows them rather than sticking with us.**

I'm quite sure that if Craig Nelson doesn't suggest a very tough penalty rather than the slap on the wrist that he keeps suggesting, that this will NOT get out of the news. There are far too many advocacy groups out there, as there should be.

....just a thought.......or two

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 04 2008,9:25 am

Bianca, you are right. Craig Nelson is under the microscope. He tried passing this cup up to state and it came back. He is having trouble with this but many eyes are focused on him and he will find it difficult to do anything other than his duty. It was interesting to see that the national press picked up on his reluctance to step up to the plate on this case.

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 04 2008,9:43 am

QUOTE

The father of one of the southern Minnesota teenagers charged with sexually humiliating and abusing numerous vulnerable nursing home residents said in a nationally televised statement today that some of the allegations against his daughter are not "as they appear" and "have been distorted" in news accounts.

The statement was issued to NBC-TV's "Today" show by Michael Larson, father of 18-year-old nursing home aide Ashton M. Larson. The comments are the first made by anyone connected to the eight teenage girls who worked at the Good Samaritan Society nursing home, where the abuse is alleged to have happened for several months early this year, and implicated in the case.

"Not all of the charges are as they appear," said Michael Larson, Ashton's father. "Much of this has been distorted by the news media."

Charged as adults Monday with maltreatment of seven residents were Brianna Marie Broitzman , 19, who faces 11 charges, and Ashton Michelle Larson, 18, who faces 10. The six others, all 17 at the time of the alleged abuse, were identified only by birthdates and initials. Four were charged Monday in juvenile court with failure to report maltreatment.

According to the criminal complaint, Ashton Larson admitted to police that she inserted her finger into a resident's rectum. She said she was trying to trigger a bowel movement but acknowledged that this was not part of her training.

She also admitted getting into bed with a resident and making a humping motion. "I might have done the motion [humping], but she was no where near me," the complaint quotes Larson as telling police.

She also admitted to patting the buttocks of one resident and trying to get another mad and then laughing at her.

Michael Larson contended in his statement that "my daughter was doing nothing more than performing the duties of her job."

< http://www.startribune.com/local/35533644.html >

Posted by This is my real name on Dec. 04 2008,9:47 am

The Nazis were also "just doing their job".

Posted by Old Cracker on Dec. 04 2008,9:48 am

Bianca: Perfect. :clap:

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 04 2008,10:06 am

(Liberal @ Dec. 04 2008,9:43 am)

QUOTE

amazing-
an adult has her daddy stick up for what she's admitted to.

i wonder if daddy read what his girl admitted to??

i hope she gets maxed out and meets the beotches in prison..

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 04 2008,10:19 am

I know parents need to stick by their children; however, he doesn't even admit that she has done anything BAD. Unbelievable!

Posted by countrygal on Dec. 04 2008,10:33 am

My heart and Prayers go out to the Victims, family members.

I worked at some nursing homes, just can't fathom any one doing such torture to those residents, how sick for some one to do such things ! It's not normal, somethings way wrong with those minds.
Sick & Wrong !!!!!!!

what the girls did is so shamful & disguesting, unthinkable,dirty, just so wrong !
what the girls don't realize is what comes around, goes around.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 04 2008,11:32 am

hay check this out ... humm it is a man and he doesn't live in Albert Lea.
< http://www.channel3000.com/news/18198980/detail.html >

Posted by Botto 82 on Dec. 04 2008,12:15 pm

Gawd, I hope that's not the Mike Larson I grew up with.

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 04 2008,12:22 pm

Kate radio just stated that the Larson father said the media has blown everything out of context (the same thing we read a couple of pages ago).
Even if the girls did a fraction of what has been stated, it is still unacceptable!

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 04 2008,12:38 pm

(Whiskero @ Dec. 04 2008,12:22 pm)

QUOTE

i wonder if he'd feel that way if his daughters rectum was violated???

if it was done in the name of fun...what the heck???

Posted by hairhertz on Dec. 04 2008,12:54 pm

What if dad put himself into the position of patient and had his own daughter treat him as she treated the elderly? Sick, right, dad? :frusty:

Posted by 'ban on Dec. 04 2008,1:05 pm

That one girl is hot. She can stick her finger in my butt, what the heck.....

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 04 2008,1:18 pm

('ban @ Dec. 04 2008,1:05 pm)

QUOTE

That one girl is hot. She can stick her finger in my butt, what the heck.....

like joe rogan says...'hello poopchutes!'

ish

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 04 2008,2:09 pm

Reportidly, they shot pictures and videos of some of their heinous acts. Judging from their MySpace & facebook pages, these were popular girls...lots of friends & frequent use of the internet. I suspect they showed their friends and maybe strangers online some of those pics/videos. Nobody spoke up, told a parent, has a soul?
On a separate but related note, my husband and I recently went to a movie in AL. We waited in line patiently trying to ignore all the profanity and obnoxousness from teenagers also in line. Minutes before the line was let in a large group of teens, well dressed, appeard to be from privilaged homes, appeared to be 16-18, came in and walked to the front of the line. They glared at, cussed at and ignored people who pointed out there was a line and they had just cut in front of people who had been waiting a long time.
So I question some of you going on about your kids knowing better...are you instilling morals and values and empathy for others, or just assuming your kids know right from wrong? Obviously there are a LOT of kids here who know better but still feel entitled to break rules and social norms anyway. What good does teaching your kids right from wrong do if you spoil, endulge and permit obnoxousness and entitlement?
On Alicia Heilman's now defunct MySpace page, her photos revealed that after being fired in May and being under investigation...she apparently enjoyed her summer baoting and partying. Nice! Great job mom and dad. Your little darling participated in torture and sexual abuse and you didn't even see fit to ground her or take away her computer?

:frusty:

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 04 2008,5:49 pm

QUOTE

**Another point I wanted to make is for the ones that bring up "the negative media attention." Maybe, just maybe, the reason Albert Lea continues to get negative media attention is because they can't find people to do the jobs they are paid to do. When people get tired of hearing the negative, maybe they should try to do something to get these people out of our town and working somewhere else where the negativity follows them rather than sticking with us.**

Craig Nelson is an elected County Attorney. He was last elected in 2006 to his 5th, four year term. If you are unhappy with him as the result of this or some other issue it will not be all that easy to get him out of our town. He states he is a life long resident, and I can't remember the last time anyone ran against him for the County Attorney office. Bianca, I have thought about your post since reading it earlier today, and thought it was Craig you were looking at through this statement. This will take a little more than making an issue of some hidden message on his license plates to get him to move on. I don't know that you are at that point, but if you are starting to think that way it will take more of a strategy that what you, your brother and others made an issue of with Gabe. I have known about this issue with Good Sam since very early this Spring, and have spent the Summer and Fall wondering what was up with the County Attorney, a man who states he is a champion of the rights of vulnerable adults. I'm willing to see how this unfold but am starting to think about it too. Do you know anyone to run against him?

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 04 2008,7:48 pm

QUOTE

wondering what was up with the County Attorney, a man who states he is a champion of the rights of vulnerable adults.

< Freeborn County Attorney Duties >

Posted by hymiebravo on Dec. 04 2008,8:00 pm

QUOTE

Do you know anyone to run against him?

That is strange that nobody seemingly ever runs against him.

They get several to run for that position in Mower County, I Believe.

Posted by bianca on Dec. 04 2008,9:57 pm

No Alfy, wasn't talking in particulars.

No hidden agenda. Especially not Gabrielson, he's been old news for a very long time now.

If I would've been talking particulars, in the sense you are thinking I would be complaining about say..... Victoria Simonsen, for instance :oops:

and her inflated salary, that gave preferential treatment by lending thousands and thousands of taxpayers money to the city finance woman and her husband Greg Moen /Tiger Hills without consulting the councilmen, and Steve Schwab was just as guilty for not doing anything about it.

But.............

I was thinking more on people who are paid a certain amount of money to charge people as they should when people do such terrible acts to innocent and vulnerable victims.

The little infant that got beaten to death and supposedly human services had just been there? The mother got nothing except a trip to California, where she IMO should have been charged also.

How about the man that ran over a graduate from ALHS, while drunk, and then didn't stay around to see if the girl was ok/alive? Were there any vehicular manslaughter charges or anything of the sort? Did the man have to serve any time for taking a young girls life?

I'm not saying Craig Nelson was involved with either of these cases, my only hope is that people get the penalty they deserve for very disturbing acts,and the city / county attorneys are the ones that decide how far to go in charging these people.

If Craig Nelson suggests giving the girls a slap on the wrist aka probation as he has been quoted in the newspaper.... as well as the father who wrote that statement defending his daughter on the Today show. Then IMO, it is they, that are the ones that bring the negativity to this town not the ones that informed the media.

Why someone doesn't run against Craig Nelson is beyond me, but I imagine it would have to be someone who isn't influenced by others and/or that don't want to "rock the boat"

Too bad we couldn't put a big ad in newspapers that states his salary, the cost of living in a small town and that he gets raises every year.

Wasn't it like $2,500.00 this year and last year also? :dunno:

I admit whole-heartedly that I just can't be objective on how I think these girls should be penalized. Like I said before, my sympathy lies with the unknowing victims and their families and how they will deal with what had been done to their loved ones before they passed away.

Posted by gljoefan on Dec. 04 2008,11:31 pm

(Alfy Packer @ Dec. 04 2008,5:49 pm)

QUOTE

Part of the reason that people don't run is the pay. I understand that for many of you $90,000 is a huge salary. But for an attorney, not so much.

There seems to be a feeling by some posters here that we simply need to pay people at the top less and we somehow get better people. I must have missed that economics class.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 04 2008,11:48 pm

(gljoefan @ Dec. 04 2008,11:31 pm)

QUOTE

(Alfy Packer @ Dec. 04 2008,5:49 pm)

QUOTE

Nelson is not worth half of what he is making. You have to perform to get paid well, to a new attorney perform and get a raise without the community being upset.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 05 2008,1:19 am

QUOTE

Liberal....you could be right to an extent and out of all of the people on here, you were the ONLY one who bothered to look into the statutes to see if something with more consequences could be warranted in this case! AWESOME! BTW....I have been saying my abuser has gotten by with too much! Most of the men on here refuse to listen to it, though.

Of course if this charge were used and found guilty, these gals would be under the supervision of the Department of Corrections, (who would require a pre-sentence investigation such as a psychological evaluation) rather than Freeborn County conditions of release, and they would be REQUIRED to complete a sexual abuse treatment program. (That's what they need) To me, that's the whole point of the justice system, to at least attempt to rehabilitate people and offer them the opportunity to LEARN something from their poor choice to abuse another person criminally. (However, I do have to say that the majority of crimes that involve any type of abuse, the abuser RARELY changes for the long term)

The other thing that must be considered is if this charge were applied, it is a felony :clap:

and I do believe the gals would have to register as sex offenders (for a limited amount of time, not for life, though). :thumbsup:

One more thing to think about is sentencing guidelines. The gals most likely won't get the maximum unless the Judge appointed to the case were to do an upwards departure in sentencing guidelines. I have not heard of that happening here in Freeborn County. So, if the gals don't have prior convictions, prison time would most likely be "held over there heads." Maybe two years Max. They would ONLY have to serve time if they were not progressing in the DOC program or keeping in contact with the DOC agent.

Still yet, I believe the gals charged with these crimes as adults will have concurrent sentencing. Once again, unless the Judge were to deviate from the sentencing guidelines there will not be a different scenario. This just means that the gals will only serve their time on the harshest crime, even if they are found guilty of ALL the crimes they are charged with. So, if 4th degree criminal sexual conduct and 3 other gross misdemeanor charges were also determined guilty , the gals actually only serve on the felony and will get credit for the other crimes at the same time.

That is the statutes, laws, sentencing guidelines, etc... for violent, sick and abusive crimes against others. And we wonder why things like this happen? We make too many excuses, point the finger at others and are NOT teaching children to BE ACCOUNTABLE & RESPONSIBLE for the poor choices they make. The dad of the Larson gal....that's so sad. He's NOT doing his daughter any favors by enabling her.

I know sometimes I irritate the "men" on this forum, but the truth is this is how the "system" can operate with women who are sexually and violently abused by men. THE REAL FEMALE VICTIMS of ABUSE don't "automatically" get justice for the crimes committed against them either. Please....don't tell me that EVERY woman is a lying about being abused because that is not a fact. And PLEASE don't tell me that EVERY MAN charged with abuse gets what's coming to him either! Sometimes it doesn't matter what gender you are...if you know the right people, a person can get away with a lot and that's wrong and it will ALWAYS BE WRONG in my opinion....whether it's a male or a female who is abusive to another human being.

Posted by howie on Dec. 05 2008,1:49 am

Countyboy,

Got your law degree? If so, file against him. In not, pony up the $200 grand and get it. Assuming you have a under graduate degree and can score high enough on the LSAT.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,5:24 am

I can't believe how dumb everyone here is. I mean really, it's embarrassing. :blush:

The judge, not Nelson determines justice. :;):

Nelson has stacked multitudes of charges against these girls, how is he failing you in any way? He doesn't convict them, the judge does. Every prosecutor is obligated to file relevant charges he can prove. It so happens that ALL the evidence in this case is from the wild teens themselves. These girls did not have attorneys when questioned and a lot can change when these girls revise and/or recant and clarify their statements. I believe the charges are in line with the crime in this case.

I wonder if most of you folks even have a clue how the system works. You've got em all tried and convicted without hearing one iota of testimony, just like in the big pot bust case. What's that say about you?

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,6:30 am

minnow, they've admitted what
they've done. people are tossed into Guantanamo for the mere suspicion they may be a terrorist...but if you're Lil'Suzy Sicko from Albert Lea, you should be able to torture & terrorize American citizens, admit to it, and get off with a slap on the wrist?
:angry:

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 05 2008,6:35 am

I've noticed that the Tribune is removing the contact information of the county attorney from its website.

QUOTE

I would also suggest looking up the prosecutor's phone number and email and contacting him directly. Unfortunately, the Albert Lea Tribune has taken down the contact information when posted in the comment section. (What's up with that?)

< alleged-abusers-appear-court-jan-21/ >

I don't post on their site, but I can put up the info here. Maybe it will migrate.

QUOTE

County Attorney
411 S. Broadway
PO Box 1147
Albert Lea, MN 56007
Phone: 507-377-5192
Fax: 507-377-5196

< Freeborn County Attorney website >

Craig.Nelson@co.freeborn.mn.us

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 05 2008,6:48 am

If you pay your elected officals less, you usually get the same people for a cheaper salary.

Public service is a calling as much as it is a job. Like a minister perhaps, you have to have a feel for it, and it is a position of faith amoung the people.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 05 2008,8:06 am

Howie,
I do not have my law degree, nor do I intend on getting it. I do, however, have a voice and a vote. I also have to right to ask for change in county leadership and will support the next canidate that will run against him. I have the right to suggest that our worthless county attorney isn't deserving of his current salary if he doesn't perform his job. As for my ability to pass tests, I have passed many tests throughout my life and plan on passing many more. Can you say the same for yourself? :dunce:

I hope that you are only defending "NO Time Nelson" and not these sexual predators.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,8:27 am

Who are you going to vote for if no one opposes him?

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 05 2008,9:08 am

I will write in MINNOW, will that work?

Posted by busybee on Dec. 05 2008,9:44 am

QUOTE

I can't believe how dumb everyone here is. I mean really, it's embarrassing. :blush:

Are you possibly admitting other people posting on here could have that much control over how you behave or react to this forum in general. :dunno:

Calling "everyone" dumb isn't such an intelligently wise choice either. :oops:

QUOTE

The judge, not Nelson determines justice.

Actually, I agree to an extent.

It's a PROCESS. The legal process. What each person involved in that process does affects how much a Judge can do to determine justice.

For example, if a person were to report a crime of assault to law enforcement and law enforcement jots down notes on a note pad, writes up the report two days later, submits it to the city or county attorney to determine if it's a chargeable crime, would the law enforcement document submitted be as detailed?

Or, if a jury finds a guilty person, innocent because the evidence doesn't prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, even if the Judge were to have decided guilt, the Judge can't determine justice.

Further, Judges are subjected to the sentencing guidelines of the MN Sentencing Guidelines Commission. So, a Judge is also limited to a certain extent, unless they do an upwards departure (imposing a harsher sentence than the guidelines recommend for the crime) and I do believe the Sentencing Commission would need a letter from the Judge explaining the reasoning behind the departure.

People can't blame everything on Nelson, nor can anyone lay all the responsibility in the Judge's lap either. If the process is faulty at any point, justice is not served.

QUOTE

Once again, I agree.

Multitude of charges, yes, but is this concurrent or consecutive sentencing according to the guidelines? People need to understand the difference and if something could be done differently.

People need to understand the MN Statutes and how they apply to prosecuting charges. Liberal was the only one I noticed looking into what might/could be done differently. That doesn't mean it fits the evidence needed to charge that way, but if someone wanted to RESPECTFULLY find out why, they most certainly could try.

My thoughts are that since the Attorney General's office turned this back over to Freeborn County instead of prosecuting it themselves, most likely they advised Mr. Nelson. Why wouldn't they? I believe that's who Mr. Nelson would answer to IF he was not handling this case appropriately.

QUOTE

I wonder if most of you folks even have a clue how the system works. You've got em all tried and convicted without hearing one iota of testimony, just like in the big pot bust case. What's that say about you?

I know more than I care to about the system and I can honestly say that I have not been the happiest with the legal process and some people involved that I have had higher expectations of.

It's actually refreshing to see the people on this forum being upset about a crime of abuse, rather than drugs. They are going to realize that a pot grower will be punished more vigorously than all of these gals will combined.

The question people might want to ask themselves is if these gals were busted with pot and had been selling it to 15 people and someone in their little group narked on them, what might be different with the legal prosecution of these gals?

Posted by peachtart on Dec. 05 2008,9:57 am

yeah did you see who the judge will be....

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,10:05 am

Which judge is it?

The Albert Lea Tribune just came out with an editorial in defense of Craig Nelson. Claiming he can't do any better than gross misdemeanor charges because the victims are not able to testify. Please! What about the fact that the other girls witnessed and have confessed to seeing these acts go on?

I would like to try and organize a march outside the courthouse in protest to the miscarriage of justice happening here. I know its cold but is anyone else willing to join?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,10:21 am

QUOTE

Please! What about the fact that the other girls witnessed and have confessed to seeing these acts go on?

Circumstantial evidence from less than reliable witnesses. How about they were mostly spinning yarn to divert attention from themselves. Prove they weren't.

Posted by activistgirl on Dec. 05 2008,10:40 am

I want to start off by saying I'm not here to get into a debate with anyone here on the message board. I just wanted to make the general statement that I'm holding a peaceful and legal protest outside of the courthouse on Jan. 21st starting at 10 am.

If anyone else shares the belief that the two girls being charged with these horrible crimes are not being charged hashly enough I invite you to join us in protest. Thanks!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,11:01 am

If playing freeze arse in the dead of winter is your idea of living, go for it. You're fooling yourself if you beleive it's going to effect the outcome.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,11:30 am

count me in.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,11:32 am

minnow, are you related to one of these girls? You defend them as if you're personally invoved?

Posted by Wolfie on Dec. 05 2008,11:41 am

How about getting law enforcement to subpeona the data from the devices used to take the pix and/or video. Security camera footage, even unclear footage, has been used as an impartial witness before why not in this case. Just a thought. As I see it the prosecuting attorneys job is to shoot for the highest sentence for the crime committed and not back down, while the defense attorneys job is to shoot for the lowest or no sentence and not back down. Its a balanced system. But when of the attorneys isn't doing his best someone gets shortchanged, if its the criminal they can petition for a retrial as is their right, but if its society we are stuck where is the fairness in that. Only real solution is to make sure the respective attorneys do the best job, defense attorneys will be eliminated just as a nature of the free market beast. But the prosecutors need to be fired or voted out when we as a society feel they aren't performing up to our expectations. At the next election if society steps up and leaves the vote block for county attorney empty, then the county would be forced to find a replacement.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,12:18 pm

Craig Nelson is full of crap. Maybe Ashton should stick a finger up his rear. Of course he'd need to remove his head first.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 05 2008,1:19 pm

I stole this site from a poster on AL Trib's website:
< http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/issinfo/ssovrcsc.htm >

Is this charge a possible charge for Ms. Larson? Penetration did happen.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 05 2008,1:35 pm

Here it is:
What is “criminal sexual conduct”?
Minnesota law classifies the crime of criminal sexual conduct into five categories: first- through fifth-degree criminal sexual conduct, with first-degree carrying the most severe penalties and fifth-degree the least. Minn. Stat. §§ 609.342 to 609.3451. Generally speaking, the first-degree and third-degree crimes apply to sexual conduct involving sexual penetration of the victim; the second-, fourth-, and fifth-degree crimes apply to sexual conduct involving sexual contact with the victim without sexual penetration.

Criminal sexual conduct in the first and second degree typically apply to conduct involving personal injury to the victim; the use or threatened use of force, violence, or a dangerous weapon; or victims who are extremely young. Criminal sexual conduct in the third, fourth, and fifth degree typically address less aggravated conduct and apply to other situations in which the victim either did not consent to the sexual conduct, was relatively young, or was incapable of voluntarily consenting to the sexual conduct due to a particular vulnerability or due to the special relationship between the offender and the victim.

Penalties Applying to Criminal Sexual Conduct

Name of crime Type of activity
Maximum penalty provided by statute
Presumptive Sentencing Guidelines sentence (no criminal history)

1st degree criminal sexual conduct
Sexual penetration; certain sexual contact with victim under 13 years old
30 years; $40,000 fine
86 months in prison for penetration; 48 months in prison for contact with victim under age 13. Statutory law presumes an executed sentence of 144 months for all violations

2nd degree criminal sexual conduct
Sexual contact
25 years; $35,000 fine
48 months in prison; 21 months stayed sentence for “statutory rape.”* Statutory law presumes an executed sentence of 90 months for crimes where the perpetrator uses or threatens to use force or violence, causes injury, uses a dangerous weapon, or creates significant fear on the part of the victim of imminent great bodily harm

3rd degree criminal sexual conduct
Sexual penetration
15 years; $30,000 fine
48 months in prison; 18 months stayed sentence for “statutory rape”*

4th degree criminal sexual conduct
Sexual contact
10 years; $20,000 fine
21 months stayed sentence; 12 months stayed sentence for “statutory rape”*

5th degree criminal sexual conduct
Sexual contact; certain lewd conduct
One year; $3,000 fine (gross misdemeanor). Certain repeat violations punishable by 5 years; $10,000 fine
Sentencing guidelines do not apply to gross misdemeanor violations; felony violations are not ranked in sentencing guidelines and sentencing is left to court’s discretion

I believe this criteria was met by Ms. Larson

Posted by bigbopper on Dec. 05 2008,1:39 pm

Mr Nelson's office won't answer phone. Called the Mn. Attny Generals office and they referred me to Dept. of Health and Human Services, They said "They are just a reporting agency. Call your county attorney". What a circle jerk. No one wants to take any responsibility in this matter. I would guarangoddamntee you, if I would go and rub my genitals in one of these girls faces I would be charged with more than a misdemeaner. What is wrong with this guy? Called my county commish and he can't do anything because this bum is elected to office. I can't believe he can't be recalled or inpeached for not doing his job? I think a protest is a very good idea. I would start it long before the trial (if there is any)I say there must be a way to get rid of this Mr. plead to a lesser charge so I don't have to do any real work guy is ousted from office.

Posted by bigbopper on Dec. 05 2008,1:43 pm

Yes I want his head !!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Joe The Plumber on Dec. 05 2008,1:56 pm

Nelson is in this position because nobody wants the job or runs against him at election time. :frusty:

I just think he's sucking up the easy pay , because he has no competition.

I wish someone would run against him , just to put a scare in him. :rofl:

Posted by bigbopper on Dec. 05 2008,2:19 pm

He's not the only leech in the pond!!

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 05 2008,2:21 pm

Well, I'm certainly not trying to railroad anybody. I wouldn't suggest punishment unless there was evidence, such as the girls own confessions etc.

But it certainly sounds like these girls were involved. And if that's the case, they are serously f---ed up, and need some real looong term help.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 05 2008,4:21 pm

(bigbopper @ Dec. 05 2008,1:39 pm)

QUOTE

I can't believe he can't be recalled or inpeached for not doing his job? I think a protest is a very good idea. I would start it long before the trial (if there is any)I say there must be a way to get rid of this Mr. plead to a lesser charge so I don't have to do any real work guy is ousted from office.

Have at it.

< Mn. Statute 201.275 >

< Mn. Statute 351.14 >

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 05 2008,4:34 pm

As far as the charges in this case, I don't see anything wrong with what was charged.
If a fair plea bargain is worked out between the parties that is respectful of those who were abused and avoids the expense to a trial, that would be wonderful for all in the county. What has me concerned, and upset has been the delay in bringing the charges and all the chatter that Craig has been making to the media that sounds so week and winey.
Long term help for these girls, who appear not to get that they did anything all that wrong will be expensive with no assurance that they will gain any understanding. Maybe the girls covering the expense of their own therapy would satisfy those who want to see punishment but I am not of an opinion that it will socialize these young ladies.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,5:09 pm

Huh? What's all diz talkz about expensive long term care? :dunno:

Are you drinking again Packer?

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 05 2008,5:21 pm

Pass that to Alfy, minnow. Sounds like he needs a hit.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,6:45 pm

psychiatric care or therapy cannot make someone without a conscience develop one, nor can it change a person's personality.
Part of the problem with the mental healthcare system is people want to excuse criminal behavior and dump criminals in therapy instead of prison.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 05 2008,7:06 pm

Therapy has become the modern day confession. Say five 'Our Fathers and Five Hail Marys' on your way out and try not to sin again. And minnow, you'd better put that thing out!

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 05 2008,7:19 pm

I still do not understand why the other parties involved are not getting ant media attention. The three other girls are to blame also!!! Don't tell me they just stood by the sidelines. Anyone who would ever even watch such torture deserves some of this punishment and public ridcule also. :angry:

Posted by minnow on Dec. 05 2008,7:25 pm

^Umm, cause they're minors chief. Sounds like a lot of pissed off chicks wanting to get back at the mean, popular girls.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 05 2008,8:51 pm

Yeah, their mean alright. And not so popular now I'll bet.

I also won't have to worry they are still at the nursing home when they put me there :violin:

On the bright side, I'm sure if they have this stuff on film, it should sell really well on the porno market...It sounds ideally suited.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 05 2008,9:17 pm

Is there any help for these girls?

Or are they like Child molestors, with a high rate to reoffend?

That's a good question. I don't know the answer to. But anyone that can't see this as a very serious problem within our society, just isn't thinking...

What's happening here, could easly end up a more serious problem then the financial crisis we are facing.

Speaking of finance I watched as easy money was supposedly being made in the stock market. I almost invested, but I knew that was wrong, just like this Good Sam deal is.

"For my mind has touched the stars, and I will defend those, that can't defend themselves."

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 05 2008,9:35 pm

Good Sam rather then Good Samaritan, the abbreviation almost makes it sound like a Stephen King novel...

How long should these girls get if the charges turn out to be true?

Hmmmm, about 5 years I'd say. And to be honest, if found guilty, if they took them out and shot them. I don't really think it would be out of line.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but it's my honest opinion. I'm tired of freaks and BS that doesnt make any sense. How about you?

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 05 2008,11:33 pm

Blue Bunny, legally a mandated reporter must report abuse & neglect under penalty of law. Whether or not justice is carried thru remains to be seen.
Spock, I worked quite a while for an area mental health facility for teens and adolescents. It would appear that the two main defendants display predatory type behaviors, (I have read that one of them was also involved in harassing mentally retarded students.) Predatory personalities that lack empathy for others or remorse for wrong doing are not going to change. You're right, its very much like pedophiles. They'll learn to hide it better but I would guess that they'll always be prone to taking advantage of others...especially if they only get a slap on the wrist this time.

Posted by medic on Dec. 06 2008,12:45 am

I guess what I dont understand is why he came out of the gate with a sweet plea deal for them. I would bet the girls defence team loves this. It must have saved their side a ton of time. Not much more room to plea other then just throwing the thing out. I know it has been said before but again, why is this any different then if a guy did this, or if it were done to a child? These victims have/had the same understanding as a young child. So with this being said, is this what craig would do for YOUR/OUR child if a daycare provider, and or stranger, stuck a finger in YOUR/OUR kids rectum? Is that what YOU or I would/should expect from that office? 3 or 93 this should not be done to anyone, age should not be a factor. Look at the reports. Who would stand for this if it was done to a child, so the adult has the same capicity as a 4 year old. The rules change? I had a friend from out of state say, " what kind of perverts are going to move to your area when your attorney pleas out sex assault to probation. Good question. And to beat a dead horse, I hope this never happens to a child or another adult because this is what we have to look foward to. Sad thing is the god ol boys want to make A.L into a retirement town. Who the heck would want this?! Sorry for the rant.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 06 2008,7:45 am

QUOTE

guess what I dont understand is why he came out of the gate with a sweet plea deal for them. I would bet the girls defence team loves this.

Are you getrunken again Medic? There is no plea deal and the girls don't have a "defense team". You've been watching too much OJ. Silly get.

QUOTE

Not much more room to plea other then just throwing the thing out

Now you're hoping for more room to plea bargain down? It's gotta be asked, are you retarded medic?

QUOTE

what kind of perverts are going to move to your area when your attorney pleas out sex assault to probation.

The same kind of perverts who are gonna saturate the town with strip bars and sex shops if Marin and his flock don't get their way.

Posted by medic on Dec. 06 2008,10:30 am

You got it minnow, I am retarded. My chin strap came off and I dont know what I was thinking.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 06 2008,11:09 am

Tell me about it :blush:

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 06 2008,12:51 pm

The Tribune ran an editorial defending the County Attorney filing gross misdemeanor charges.

I wonder what would it take to warrant felony charges in a case like this?

< http://www.albertleatribune.com/news....ty-case >

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 06 2008,1:00 pm

Another thing that pisses me off in that editorial is that the County Attorney's office has no problem stacking charges on someone growing a little weed, but the Tribune acts like it would be a terrible thing to have a County Attorney stack charges in a case like this.

QUOTE

Look, anyone can ask local officials and find out the Tribune is neither friend nor foe to them.

At least they used a joke to lighten the mood of that editorial. (friend nor foe :rofl:

)

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 06 2008,1:02 pm

Haven't read the whole thread...been gone!
But...I truely wish a family member of one of the victims would request a change of venue. To me that is only fair due to all the national publicity now; get this case out of the county into another one where the prosecuting attny. doesn't live or have any ties.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 06 2008,1:30 pm

I agree with this editorial in this case. I also agree the Tribune can be less than fair when it comes to other offenders it doesn't like as much. Our society seems trained to demonize drug crime and sadly cannabis is considered a drug in their minds unlike other substances. Right wing America likes eating it's own. Even in times of war, it prefers fighting its own people. Hopefully Obama can change that mind set.

Posted by Botto 82 on Dec. 06 2008,1:52 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 06 2008,1:30 pm)

QUOTE

YRight wing America likes eating it's own. Even in times of war, it prefers fighting its own people. Hopefully Obama can change that mind set.

You're kidding, right? Billary for Sec'y of State, more Clinton retreads in the Cabinet... same old twin dynasty, globalist agenda White House. Nothing is going to change much, simply because of some stupid campaign slogan.

Posted by ICU812 on Dec. 06 2008,2:05 pm

QUOTE

I wonder what would it take to warrant felony charges in a case like this?

If the perps were male....

Posted by countrygal on Dec. 06 2008,2:20 pm

I forgot who said this, but they said it the BEST !

How would Nelson like a finger up his rectum ?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 06 2008,2:24 pm

I don't understand all this anger at Nelsons office. He's stacked charges in the case and the judge determines guilt and sentencing. These charges are more than sufficient to allow for many years behind bars if the court so chooses should it find them guilty.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 06 2008,4:02 pm

I'm angry because according to the state's own guidelines what they did was felony sexual assault and should warrant prison sentences and sex offender registration.

I'm angry because a slap on the wrist isn't justice, and maybe justice is the last gift we can give the victims of this case.

I'm angry because being young & white & female shouldn't exclude anyone from having to follow the law. Also because privilaged shouldn't equal an automatic pardon.

I'm angry because these girls don't seem to even acknowledge what they did was reprehensible and wrong. Some actually got jobs at another nursing home. Some want to go to nursing school and/or be allowed to work in related fields still. Some have their daddy defending them after they confessed.

I'm angry because my own grandparents were residents at Good Sams and is where we said goodbye to them, (Grandma was on the angel's ward.) It's heart wrenching enough to go thru that with a family member. There is guilt over having to put them there in the first place, and then to think they were abused and/or neglected is unimaginable.

I'm pissed as hell and glad a few others are too...maybe that's the only way we'll ever get what's broken fixed.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 06 2008,4:14 pm

According to Square Pants Sponge Bob, "It's really nothing, nothing at all." Two young girls got in a little trouble, spent their college money on some attorneys and it turned out to be really nothing, nothing at all. :sarcasm:

Posted by anotherspringborg on Dec. 06 2008,5:25 pm

There on CNN channel 70 right now 5:25

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 06 2008,6:45 pm

Hopefully, the national new's coverage on it and the fact that the statement was made that the Prosecuting Attorney seemed to be taking it lightly will make a difference. I say we get Nancy Grace on it. If he seems to be slipping, she will hand his kahunas to him!!! Definately one woman that is out for the victims and no one else!!! :rockon:

Posted by busybee on Dec. 06 2008,9:29 pm

QUOTE

The Albert Lea Tribune just came out with an editorial in defense of Craig Nelson. Claiming he can't do any better than gross misdemeanor charges because the victims are not able to testify. Please! What about the fact that the other girls witnessed and have confessed to seeing these acts go on?

Now this I will say is irritating to me because I've been there. I was willing to testify as were witnesses in the case against my abuser. My abuser admitted to the crimes and it is on tape and written in reports.

Two felonies and two gross misdemeanors were plead out to one charge and that charge was reduced down to a lesser felony charge. I had a lot higher expectations than what happened, not to mention he was released with in two hours of this plea bargain and sentencing planned for a later date. I was heartbroken, terrified and still am because even though he got what people call a "sweet deal" my abuser has motioned the court to withdraw his plea of guilty for the reduced charge.

So, you see as a "not vulnerable adult victim of abuse" I also fear that the legal system hasn't and isn't going to help protect me or my children either and have instead given him the opportunity to successfully terrorize using the system against me. So far, it's worked to his advantage. Sometimes I wish I had Alzheimer's

(not minimizing the abuse of them, please understand that). I want to be done with this and I am hoping for someone to step up to the plate and make my abuser realize he is NOT so darn special that he gets to break the law without any consequences.

QUOTE

mr. minnow, does stacking charges really mean anything UNLESS it's consecutive sentencing?

You keep bringing up the Judge. You do understand that the presumption of the Judge in cases of abuse is that the prosecuting attorney charges all crimes correctly, using the appropriate statutes, and if a plea bargain is brought before the bench, it is also presumed by the Judge that the victim is aware of the plea proposal the prosecutor intends to do?

Do you honestly think Judges have the time to read over every case to figure out if the prosecutor is charging appropriately or if the plea bargain proposed fits the reported crime (s) of abuse?

Judges depend on prosecutors, prosecutors depend on accurate & detailed police reports, the detectives depend upon witnesses and evidence and the reporting of a crime.

Victims of abuse crimes are allowed the right to a speedy trial if the accused delays the process. Victims are entitled to be notified of every move a prosecuting attorney makes in regards to the prosecution of the accused, including plea bargains. If a victim is NOT satisfied with a plea bargain, they have the right to make that statement, however the prosecuting attorney is the ONLY one who actually gets to decide what the Judge will be told, what plea bargain is being proposed, ect....

If you think every victim of an abuse crime is informed by a prosecuting attorney what they intend to bring to the Judge as a plea bargain, you are WRONG, yet the Judge assumes the prosecutor informed the victim (s) and will follow the direction of the prosecutor based upon that.

QUOTE

I'm angry because being young & white & female shouldn't exclude anyone from having to follow the law. Also because privilaged shouldn't equal an automatic pardon.

Just as being male & privileged to relationships with "people in the system" shouldn't exclude anyone from having to follow the law or be held accountable for abuse. Yet, it happens.

QUOTE

I'm angry because these girls don't seem to even acknowledge what they did was reprehensible and wrong. Some actually got jobs at another nursing home. Some want to go to nursing school and/or be allowed to work in related fields still. Some have their daddy defending them after they confessed.

Male or female, an abuser won't acknowledge what they did. They will find someone else to blame (usually their victim, society, systems, etc). Most will abuse again and again and again. Abuse is a chosen behavior. Age doesn't matter either, or confessions on tape, some parents defend their child's behavior until the day that parent dies. It's called enabling and it hurts victims and those who love/care about them.

QUOTE

I'm angry because according to the state's own guidelines what they did was felony sexual assault and should warrant prison sentences and sex offender registration.

If you're looking at 4th degree sexual assault, that WOULD BE an excellent felony to charge the girls with (I have no idea if the evidence can prove that, however). They would probably NOT have to serve any prison time UNLESS they did not cooperate with probation. This would require them to register as sex offenders for a period of time. This would require a pre-sentencing investigation and could possibly put the gals in a sex offender treatment program.

QUOTE

I'm angry because a slap on the wrist isn't justice, and maybe justice is the last gift we can give the victims of this case.

Yes, this particular case has the potential to cause community conflict and little angry mobs. However, it is a very weak case to use in an attempt to fix what's broken in the system. There have been much stronger cases, other victims, etc... If you want to change something, you have to look into the big picture not just a single case.

Posted by Joe The Plumber on Dec. 07 2008,12:19 am

What scares me about this case is two things.

1. The judge for this case is Shwab. Guess who trained him in, yep Nelson. :crazy:

2. Both Nelson and Shwab have the " Little Man Syndrome." :rofl:

* Have you noticed lately that alot of small people are going for the power jobs in this town/world. Judges,Attorneys, Cops.

Posted by nphilbro on Dec. 07 2008,12:54 am

As a former poster noted, and I paraphrase, "They pick on the retarded and will always be that way."

I saw that in the late 80's when I was in high school - at ALHS. If one showed the slightest empathy toward someone who was challenged or even, not "rich" enough to have parents that were friends with those that were- they became the same pariah.

I don't care where any of those losers the enforced the status rules are now, I just have to make sure that my own children don't take up that standard.

Cases of gunfire in school and now abuse like this will be more common as impersonal communication like the internet is easier and class disparity is increasing. You put that into a town like Albert Lea where the influence from Mpls, Des Moines, etc. is very limited, these kids are going to make up their own rules to survive.

I challenge the parents to give values. I challenge the courts to enforce the law. There is now such thing as "making and example" of someone in the true spirit of the law. High School society, however, can say - that's messed up, and take the retardedness that is adolescence back a notch. I have two 13 year old girls in my house tonight - I drove them to a bunch of stuff and listened to everything they had to say, not speaking much (like I was ignoring them) and then asked open questions about some of the more "shocking" things they said. It's scary how much adolescence kids will do anything to belong.

Our families need to do more together and we have to do more with other families. I'm new to this teenage thing - like everyone the first time they go through it.

Bad behavior, indifferent attitudes, complete selfishness - is tolerated home first.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,8:17 am

^Um, ya, whatever.

These girls should have their attorneys change judges. Schwab will send them to prison to prove he's no pansy. Hell be scared of public reaction to his first well known case. Girls, this isn't a case you bring to a new judge. I know what Miss Larson is going to do because of statements from her father and I agree with them. But, Brianna, you need to determine along with your parents how important it is for you not to have probation and a possible misdemeanor record. My advice is to spend $10-$15K and secure good council and keep your mouth shut. These charges are entirely circumstantial and I'd take them head on and fight them very vigorously and hold your head up high and you'll be respected in the long run. Prosecutors and police aren't Gods, in fact, often they're the biggest sinners. The persecution rests...

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 07 2008,9:26 am

minnow, lovely. do you sit up nights thinking of ways sex offenders can get off?

Posted by busybee on Dec. 07 2008,10:23 am

QUOTE

minnow, lovely. do you sit up nights thinking of ways sex offenders can get off?

Is that a loaded question? :rofl:

I hope you meant the "get off" as in get out of criminal charges. :;):

I can't tell what minnow's previous post means exactly. Minnow doesn't appear to be real clear about things and unless a person specifically asks rather than assumes, one never really knows.

I can see how you would assume that's what the meaning of the post is. I could also assume that minnow is informing people on here about what has been done by others to get out of crim sex charges. Maybe the point is...it's easy if a person uses the system to their advantage in every way possible.

I find this comment in the post the most interesting..."Prosecutors aren't Gods, in fact, often they're the biggest sinners."

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 07 2008,10:31 am

(ICU812 @ Dec. 06 2008,2:05 pm)

QUOTE

I wonder what would it take to warrant felony charges in a case like this?

If the perps were male....

Good question.

"A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree if he or she engages in sexual penetration..."
Doesn't apply.

"Second-degree criminal sexual conduct follows substantially along the lines of the preceding section, but instead of penetration it makes sexual contact with a victim's intimate parts unlawful. Violation is a second-degree felony."
Does this apply :dunno:

"Third-degree criminal sexual conduct includes two of the same elements as a first-degree offense (i.e., penetration and use of force of coercion)..."

"Fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct involves sexual contact with another person involving force or coercion, or where the actor knows or has reason to know that the victim is mentally incapable, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless, ...It is a serious misdemeanor."

From: Criminal Law and Procedure. Second Edition.
John M. Scheb & John M. Scheb II

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,12:11 pm

OK, so you've learned your lesson, right Brianna?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,12:45 pm

If I am a juror - I let them off - sophmoric at best

Everyone should put thier vindictive desires towards real sex offenders.

If this pic doesn't scream boy crazy teen, I don't know what does. This is angelic faced, bittersweet teen tart, the young Miss Larson who hails from Lake Hobegone, MN where the teenies are aggressively strong.

Posted by Glad I Left on Dec. 07 2008,5:58 pm

Does anyone else find it creepy that Sybil has all these pictures at his disposal to post? :dunno:

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,6:24 pm

I don't know, birds of a feather.. :dunno:

Just trying to show these girls in a human light. They aren't demons and monsters.

Posted by canvasback on Dec. 07 2008,6:43 pm

(Glad I Left @ Dec. 07 2008,5:58 pm)

QUOTE

Does anyone else find it creepy that Sybil has all these pictures at his disposal to post? :dunno:

Absolutely! A grown man with nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon but make posts like that...beyond creepy. Pathetic and demented are two of many descriptions that come to mind. Get your fat _ss out of whatever hole you are living in and get help.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,7:28 pm

It did stop the noise in this thread didn't it? :laugh:

Seized it right up :angel:

Stopped it on a dime! :clap:

Hey look! I've got abs of steel!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 07 2008,7:50 pm

Brianna's no a sex offender, it's Karen Carpenters grand daughter for crying out loud.

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 07 2008,8:28 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 07 2008,6:24 pm)

QUOTE

They aren't demons and monsters.

apparently you havent read what they've admitted to doing.

you are what is wrong with the left...

they deserve prison time and felony records. what exactaly do they need to admit to that would warrant them being monsters?

put down the bong man! :peaceout:

Posted by medic on Dec. 07 2008,9:17 pm

Minnow... I may be retarded, but you need a lot more help then I need. You should check yourself in, before somebody checks you out!

Posted by USMC5811 on Dec. 08 2008,2:18 am

(Glad I Left @ Dec. 07 2008,5:58 pm)

QUOTE

Does anyone else find it creepy that Sybil has all these pictures at his disposal to post? :dunno:

My family lives down the street from this creep.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 08 2008,4:57 am

He will be moving soon. You know strike 2. Until then be watchful of your kids, I think the good doctor is still medicating.

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 08 2008,7:50 am

These little demons deserve more than he is getting, it's sad that they won't.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 08 2008,8:05 am

gawd I hope you're not talking about the same guy from when I was a teen, (90's.) He appeared to be somewhat weird or mentally challenged or both and was always asking my friends and I if he could take our pictures.
I worked at a store in town that provided photo developing. One day a bunch of envelopes got dropped, including his. There were pictures of a lot of females and most appeared as if the female, (Adult and minor) had no idea they were being shot. Also some appeared to be taken thru windows. I heard later he got caught inside some woman's home taking pictures of her in the bath. The woman's husband caught him and beat the crap outta him. Please tell me thus guy is not still around?

Albert Lea may seem small and safe but there are sickos everywhere...even here.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,8:46 am

^Yep, that's me. I'm the pot king, the weird picture guy and some say I'm even responsible for 9/11 but can't prove it. JFK? Yep, me again.

How are you people able to find out all these facts about me? They're so accurate and you're so smart!

Check out Brianna. Thumb rings rule.

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 08 2008,12:49 pm

(USMC5811 @ Dec. 08 2008,2:18 am)

QUOTE

(Glad I Left @ Dec. 07 2008,5:58 pm)

QUOTE

Does anyone else find it creepy that Sybil has all these pictures at his disposal to post? :dunno:

My family lives down the street from this creep.

sorry for the off topic post!
usmc5811 -
that is in the top 5 best ever avatars!!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,12:58 pm

Water boarding? LOL :rofl:

That ain't torture it's childs play. Just remember, if you wanna play the torture game you got to receive as well.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 08 2008,1:13 pm

Well, at least with all of the photo's minnow has been posting, those of you who had to know who they are can now put a face to their names.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,1:50 pm

Ya, they're sex offenders until I post their pics and now I'M the sex offender!! LOL :rofl:

Posted by busybee on Dec. 08 2008,4:28 pm

I am curious minnow, what is your definition of abusive behavior? Sexual assault? What do you consider violent behavior? In that realm of thought, what behaviors do you view as criminal and deserving of consequences?

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 08 2008,4:56 pm

Not saying I agree with domestic abuse, but I certainly understand it a little better since Busybee started posting.

This case really has nothing in common with normal abuse, in most abuse cases the victim has a choice to leave, or stick around and wait for the next beating. These people were stuck in this place where these disgusting human beings spit snot in their mouth, stuck a finger up their ass, or hit them in the groin so hard that they would yell out.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 08 2008,5:00 pm

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Some are probably turned on by these girls.

Sort of fitting into a Young/old Bondage and Desicration pornography. A fitting title might be "Little Ho's that will do anything to get you hot!"

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 08 2008,5:03 pm

These girls are pure evil, but it's an evil we've all created, and let flurish.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,5:16 pm

So, pure evil admits to wrongdoing?

This from ABC news:

QUOTE

One of the minors involved in the abuse told authorities that Broitzman and Larson would play with a patient's cane, "ride it like a horse" and "spank [the patient] on the buttocks with it."

According to the criminal complaint filed against Larson, the teen admitted to spitting water on a resident, lying in a bed with a resident and kissing her and inserting a finger into a patient's rectum.

Larson states that there was a video of the group taking off a patient's hat "to antagonize him." Larson also admitted to patting a resident's buttocks, according to the complaint.

Another unidentified teen claims in the complaint that she recalled an instance when Ashton had been "washing a guy up and was rougher than they needed and he got an erection from it."

I know this is wrong and all so don't go all postal on me but I find this hilarious! It would make a very funny Saturday Night Live skit. It's comical as all hell. What happens when you let a high school "girl gang" loose and unsupervised in an old folks home after-school?

SNL's got to make a skit of this. " play with a patient's cane, ride it like a horse" LOL :rofl:

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 08 2008,5:25 pm

They admitted some stuff because they were scared when they were called out. Just wait now.... they will get their attorneys and all of a sudden months later they will retract what they admitted and say they were coerced. You know this whole thing just floors me... they aren't being charged with more. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,5:36 pm

That's becuase your looking through hate filled and vindictive glasses. 10 charges a piece are plenty. Wrap your head around that. Even OJ didn't face 10 charges in two trials.

Posted by Scarlet on Dec. 08 2008,5:46 pm

Actually I am not hating anyone. I just hate the situation. I think it's horrible that these girls felt the urge to do these things and followed through with them numerous times. I also hate the fact that I don't think the punishment will fit the crime. I am not out there hunting down anyone to lynch them. However, Minnow I normally agree with things you say, but in this case I seriously worry that you may have a desire to just say things to get someone "started up." I don't know who you are, but your need to turn these girls into some sort of sex idols is beyond me. The terrible thing is it seems you don't want people to hate them, but the more you post about them I think it fuels even more hatred by those who do. Just my thoughts.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,5:53 pm

How am I turning them into "sex idols"? :dunno:

That's just silly. No, I don't want people to hate them. They were just silly kids who were doing stupid things. Yes, they should pay a price, but that price shouldn't include destroying their future lives forever. It's not like they were putting out cigarettes on patients foreheads.

Every time we widen the scope of what a sex offender is, it demeans real victims.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 08 2008,6:43 pm

minnow, how have you help these girls with your resent posts. You come off as more of a stalker than the friend you claim to want to be. Since late May, when news of this started coming out I have felt remorse for those who were victims of these girls, while feeling sympathy for these poor mindless twits who committed these acts of abuse. As I have repeatedly said, they haven't a clue as to what they have done.

You, Craig Nelson, myself and many others in this community can see that these girls are not hardened sex offenders, even though their actions were abusive, disgusting, and an exercise of some of the poorest judgement I've ever heard of an adolescent making.

That being said, public statements made by myself, Craig Nelson, you and others from far and wide are not helping this situation come to resolution. My stake in the matter is that I am embarrassed by what they did, and I believe their actions were very wrong.

I do not know any of the girls or their families personally, nor do I want to. However I know that much of what you have posted here about the girls was found on face book and the like. The girls put those pictures and information out there never intending to have it used here as you have been using it. I know this information is in the public domain, but it should be considered semiprivate, and even though their poor judgement extends to putting personal information onto this public media, they should not be victimized by its use by you. I know that you feel strongly about what you see as injustice, I just wish you would see that pulling this personal stuff up and reposting it is also an injustice to them. The leering comments about these girls and the reposts of their personal data, make you look creepy, and has not helped the girls as you claim you want!

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,6:55 pm

QUOTE

I know that much of what you have posted here about the girls was found on face book and the like.

Really...and how would you know that? :crazy:

Posted by busybee on Dec. 08 2008,7:01 pm

Facebook requires an invite, so only the people who can view a page are the friends accepted, at least that's what I thought. :dunno:

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 08 2008,7:52 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 08 2008,5:36 pm)

QUOTE

That's becuase your looking through hate filled and vindictive glasses. 10 charges a piece are plenty. Wrap your head around that. Even OJ didn't face 10 charges in two trials.

A little slip there. O.J. faced more than that in his last trial.

QUOTE

The jury unanimously finds Simpson guilty on all 12 counts against him, including robbery and kidnapping charges.

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 08 2008,9:15 pm

(busybee @ Dec. 08 2008,4:28 pm)

QUOTE

I may be new, but i find it funny that this minnow has the seeds to call people out, and yet wont answer simple questions.

tango lima bravo - wacko

Posted by busybee on Dec. 08 2008,9:26 pm

QUOTE

This case really has nothing in common with normal abuse, in most abuse cases the victim has a choice to leave, or stick around and wait for the next beating.

We've went rounds about this one already on here.

No abuse case is exactly the same.

I just hope that everyone in society will eventually take the time to learn to understand that although you think a person has the power & control to leave an abuser safely, it's not that black and white.

True abusers use everything and are capable of doing anything to keep their victim where they want them...abusers do not make things easy for a victim to even think about leaving and if they get away, that is the most dangerous time for the victim.

When a victim leaves an abuser, the abuser stalks, steals, lies, hides or destroys property, threatens, puts the children in the middle, attacks, degrades their victim to anyone who will listen, cries, begs for forgiveness, promises to never do it again, denies they did anything at all, etc...

The victim knows they are going to be punished for any exposing of their abusers behavior because they've already suffered the consequences of questioning their abuser while they were together. An abuser believes their victim has NO RIGHT to question them or tell anyone else how they abuse.

Relationships that are non-abusive and one person decides to leave the other is usually ok. The ability to choose to leave is safe. The significant other that has been left behind usually deals with their pain & loss and moves on with their life, never vengeful or cruel. These are the people that say, "I think it was the best thing for the both of us in the end. We are still friends."

QUOTE

These people were stuck in this place where these disgusting human beings spit snot in their mouth, stuck a finger up their ass, or hit them in the groin so hard that they would yell out.

I agree completely with how helpless these people were. It's heartbreaking.

As you state Liberal, if I remember correctly when I read the report on here, some of the residents did display irritation, anger, frustration, fear and wasn't one of the resident's mouth covered with a hand to prevent her screams from being heard?

When you think of it some residents reacted as any person, with full cognitive & physical functioning would while they are being physically abused and sexually assaulted with a repulsive inappropriate invasion of THEIR body.

Why weren't they heard? Why didn't anyone know for so long? It's not just about their having Alzheimer's. It's also because their abusers made sure they were NOT heard or helped by abusing them behind closed doors.

It is extremely rare for an abusive person to display their abusive behaviors out in public. Could you see these gals at Good Samaritan treating residents like that in the hall or dining room in front of just anyone?

It's no different than if you run into a couple who you "believe" get along great and at least one of them you opinion as the type of person who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

Yet, when the couple is alone later, the same person who you believe would give you their shirt is pushing their significant other around while yelling accusations of flirting with you. Behind closed doors.

Most abusive people are what I classify as Charmers & Cons. I'll bet NO ONE suspected these young gals would do something as horrible as this to this to another human being, let alone helpless Alzheimer's patients in a nursing home. They are probably sweet as pie in the public eye (charmer)....but behind closed doors is where they get away with other "stuff." (con)

And what minnow continues to point out in his posts is how popular they were, well liked and so forth, yet they conned how many people for how many months? Others even witnessed and were told about the abuse and did nothing? (Blinded by their charm & popularity) He is right to an extent, NO ONE could probably comprehend that these gals could behave in two completely different ways.

This is why I see this as very similar to domestic abuse/violence situations. Notice "similar"not exactly the same. I suspect these gals will use their charm and conning behavior to get the best outcome possible for their crimes rather than sucking it up and taking FULL RESPONSIBILITY!

Abuse is a choice.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,10:08 pm

Home invasion robbery using a gun is also a choice.

QUOTE

Pittenger Sentenced to Jail Time

(ABC 6 NEWS) - The son of a Rochester police captain will serve jail time for his crime.

23-year old Andrew Pittenger was sentenced Monday in Olmsted County Court.

He'll get 180 days in jail, 100 hours of community service and will have to pay more than $2,400 in restitution.

Pittenger will also be put on probation after serving his time and is required to get mental health counseling.

Pittenger was convicted of first degree burglary and three counts of terroristic threats for his involvement in an armed home invasion more than two years ago.

He's accused of using his father's police issued gun in that invasion.

Hey, grab a handgun, your homies and bust into a house and put a gun to the owners head and steal his crap, catch 4 charges and do 6 months in the county jail and you people want to hang these girls? What a freakin' joke!

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 08 2008,10:50 pm

So because they're pretty lil'girls from small town USA, they couldn't have understood what the did was wrong?
What the **** is wrong with you? They knew it was wrong. They were adults when they commited the crimes. Minnow obsessively masturbating to thei internet pictures, while calling them "My precious!" like demented little troll is just the start of what the sick little bitches deserve.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 08 2008,11:12 pm

So because they're pretty lil'girls from small town USA, they couldn't have understood what the did was wrong?

If they didn't understand, how did they admit to it?

What the **** is wrong with you?

What's wrong with you? It sounds like you're jealous or something.

They knew it was wrong. They were adults when they commited the crimes.

What's the difference between 17 and 18 other than a few months? All the girls should be treated equally regardless.

Minnow obsessively masturbating to thei internet pictures, while calling them "My precious!" like demented little troll is just the start of what the sick little bitches deserve.

Haha, makes me LOL everytime I read it! :laugh:

Oh brother! You've got a fertile imagination don't you? :rofl:

That's hilarious!

That's called projection. It's you, in fact, that harbors these fantasies. It appears, it's you that would like to play madam and punish your two lil' teen slave bithes?

Just do me a favor and let me watch, OK? Chanks.

Posted by USMC5811 on Dec. 09 2008,3:40 am

(ArmyVet @ Dec. 08 2008,12:49 pm)

QUOTE

(USMC5811 @ Dec. 08 2008,2:18 am)

QUOTE

(Glad I Left @ Dec. 07 2008,5:58 pm)

QUOTE

Does anyone else find it creepy that Sybil has all these pictures at his disposal to post? :dunno:

My family lives down the street from this creep.

sorry for the off topic post!
usmc5811 -
that is in the top 5 best ever avatars!!

Thanks, it's for all of my liberal friends. :rofl:

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,7:50 am

(minnow @ Dec. 07 2008,6:24 pm)

QUOTE

I don't know, birds of a feather.. :dunno:

Just trying to show these girls in a human light. They aren't demons and monsters.

No, but there ACTIONS were demonic and monstrous.
The CHOICES they made were demonic and monstrous.
Their BEHAVIOR was demonic and monstrous.
AND if Good Sam. trains to the extent they have claimed to train staff...these girls KNEW what they did was wrong!!!
They just never thought they would get caught.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 09 2008,8:03 am

They didn't understand it? C'mon. They aren't mentally challenged so they knew and understood it was wrong. They're morally challenged so they did it anyway...which is the definition of criminal.
Aside from the fact that most people would understand what these girls did was wrong at a much younger age than 17 or 18, they did go thru training on being a mandated reporter. So they knew they were required to report any abuse, neglect or mistreatment. So how can you say they didn't know what they were doing.
Also, why would the other girls have confessed to witnessing the acts in question if they didn't happen? As mandated reporters it would make no sense to confess to not reporting, (Which is illegal) if nothing had happened. Why would they confess to crimes they didn't commit?
Ashton has come out trying to minimize her actions such as humping a person's leg, and sodomizing them. Typical of someone caught doing wrong and trying to worm out of the truth.

If an older man went into an 18 yr old girls room, slapped her genitals, poked her breasts, stuck a finger up her butt and exposed himself in her face...would you be claiming he didn't know better? That he just needed a little therapy? Would you be saying the charges were adequate?

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,8:05 am

Someone put a link to the Dept. of Human Services report on this case awhile back and their findings.
Can someone post that link again, I can't find it.
Thanks :peaceout:

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,8:10 am

Blondmomshell,
Just curious who you were aiming at with your post??
I agree with you. :angel:

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,8:25 am

QUOTE

Home invasion robbery using a gun is also a choice.

Are you expecting me or others to argue with you about that? Of course it's a choice, an abusive & violent one.

QUOTE

Sounds typical doesn't it? :angry:

That is a joke!

You won't get any argument from me on that either because it's not a victim-less crime.

What those gals did was not a victim-less crime either.

I don't care what a person's status is in any group society, no one has the right to violate another person's basic human rights.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,9:14 am

Busybee,

Right On :thumbsup:

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 09 2008,9:19 am

(Santorini @ Dec. 09 2008,8:05 am)

QUOTE

Someone put a link to the Dept. of Human Services report on this case awhile back and their findings.
Can someone post that link again, I can't find it.
Thanks :peaceout:

< MDH findings >

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,9:33 am

QUOTE

I don't care what a person's status is in any group society, no one has the right to violate another person's basic human rights.

Sure they do! If they're police, prosecutors and judges, they can violate your basic human rights all day long and if they get caught, all that happens is that they dismiss the charges. :;):

They don't pay your lawyer bills or even apologize. You need to wake up! This is the real world. Nothing fair or just about it.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 09 2008,9:39 am

Grr. Obviously minnow you make statements with the intent of inciting anger, which I fell into. I apologize for personal attacks. I profess to not understand why you feel a need to identify with the perps and seek attention thru being provocative and borderline perverse.

Aside from that...

As a general question, is it that the victims are faceless and namesless, (To society at large) and elderly that makes some people see them as not truly being victims? Why does it seem as if certain people have more empathy for the perpws than for the victims in this case? Why minimize and deny that what was done to them was legally and morally wrong? Why value the monsters who did this more because of age, race, gender and status and devalue the victims because they're old and infirm? Defend criminals who's victims were unable to defend themselves?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,9:42 am

No ones been found guilty of anything yet. The only evidence we have is some report written by the police. Police lie, fudge and exaggerate written reports so often it's virtually standard business practice. Cops are trained to present winnable cases, not present the truth per say. They're actually trained on how to fudge reports. I've been through these training courses for my own personal knowledge.

Posted by Ghostinthemachine on Dec. 09 2008,10:20 am

No ones been found guilty? Isn't the evidence their own confession?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,10:26 am

It's not a confession, it's a written police report. Police are schooled on ways to write reports that will help the prosecutor. They're trained how to fudge reports.

You see, law enforcement has changed. It used to be that cops just told what happened and the prosecutor figured out what case to make, but they noticed many getting off on "technicalities" . That's when they decided cops needed to be schooled on how to fudge reports and evidence to benefit the prosecution. Winning has trumped justice.

Posted by Elk Hunter on Dec. 09 2008,11:30 am

Everyone should just ignore the little fish. He is doing it just to get a rise out of you. That is the highlight of his pathetic day.

Posted by justmealmn on Dec. 09 2008,11:33 am

WOW, I just read the MDH findings and I can't believe those girls would do those type of things to another individual. To rub the ole gents to get a rise from them or hump them....sick sick....I am sure since they were fairly nice looking girls I am sure some ALHS guy wouldve helped them with NO problem with the real thing.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,11:39 am

What's truly pathetic is being on the receiving end of exaggerated, fudged reports. That's what's really sick in America.

Posted by justmealmn on Dec. 09 2008,11:57 am

Well Minnow....would you like to get things off of your chest and tell us how that has happened to you?

Posted by Whiskero on Dec. 09 2008,12:03 pm

I know my 11 year old nephew knows it is wrong to spit in someones face and stick a finger in a person's rectum. Geez.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,12:06 pm

QUOTE

"The only evidence "we" have...?" Who is "we?"

If law enforcement did the investigation correctly, it would also be saved on a recording device.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,12:09 pm

QUOTE

What's truly pathetic is being on the receiving end of exaggerated, fudged reports. That's what's really sick in America.

Once again, I don't understand how that happens? It is common practice of law enforcement investigators to record the investigation in process and write a report that supplements the recording.

Posted by ArmyVet on Dec. 09 2008,12:11 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 09 2008,9:42 am)

QUOTE

ummmmmmmm - they didnt need to be found guilty - they admitted it.
can you read?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,12:11 pm

The officer writing the report is saying what they admitted. Where's the taped confessions?

Are there recordings? I see no mention of any in the report. If there is none, I'd want to know why not?

If there is none, are they are asking me to believe the cops writing the report to be accurate? Honestly, I'd give these young cops about as credence as the girls in question. None are very credible.

Posted by justmealmn on Dec. 09 2008,12:49 pm

If you have read the 15 pages from the MDH finding they have it video taped and a written record of their interviews with the subjects.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,12:59 pm

What is specifically recorded? The entire interview that the charges are based on? Show me...

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 09 2008,1:27 pm

minnow
do you have anything else to do besides sit on this blog all day??

Posted by Ghostinthemachine on Dec. 09 2008,1:34 pm

(notinalbertleaanymore @ Dec. 09 2008,1:27 pm)

QUOTE

minnow
do you have anything else to do besides sit on this blog all day??

from what I've read I would guess not

Posted by irisheyes on Dec. 09 2008,2:05 pm

(busybee @ Dec. 09 2008,12:09 pm)

QUOTE

What's truly pathetic is being on the receiving end of exaggerated, fudged reports. That's what's really sick in America.

Once again, I don't understand how that happens? It is common practice of law enforcement investigators to record the investigation in process and write a report that supplements the recording.

Yeah, but do you think for all cases the prosecutor and judge sit around the tape player or TV for all the interrogations, or do they just go by the report?

Unless it's a big case, and you have deep pockets for lawyer bills, the report trumps everything.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,2:09 pm

QUOTE

What is specifically recorded? The entire interview that the charges are based on? Show me...

I'm thinking that this wasn't something any investigator would want to summarize from memory into a report.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,2:11 pm

The "report" is simply a narrative of the case from the police's perspective. All reports are filled with errors. Some bigger than others.

Posted by justmealmn on Dec. 09 2008,2:20 pm

Minnow... I am sure only in your case have the police totally blew things out of proportion in their reports.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,2:37 pm

QUOTE

I know, but even someone who has a public defender has the right to review the tapes & compare it to the report.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,2:53 pm

Justme, read my lips and I'll say real slow just for you. I-don't-have-a-case. There is no case. Like Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that".

Posted by irisheyes on Dec. 09 2008,3:41 pm

(busybee @ Dec. 09 2008,2:37 pm)

QUOTE

I know, but even someone who has a public defender has the right to review the tapes & compare it to the report.

First, I don't know why you're assuming that EVERY case includes a tape of all interviews of witnesses and suspects. Because they simply don't.

Secondly, if you don't have the money for your own lawyer, a court appointed one may not give you the time of day. They get paid the same whether they do their job or not.

I'm just speaking in general though. In this case I think the girls are getting off easy on the charges brought against them. They're lucky to not face the risk of walking away with a felony or having to register as sex offenders.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,4:00 pm

Society values pretty young girls. It's hard for us to send them down the river like other people. Youth and beauty is fleeting and something you can't buy at any price.

Posted by grassman on Dec. 09 2008,4:43 pm

I do not doubt for a minute that there are "structured" taking of notes for a drug or alcohol bust. I do doubt that there is "structured" taking of notes for abuse of vulnerable adults. IMO :;):

Posted by busybee on Dec. 09 2008,5:37 pm

QUOTE

First, I don't know why you're assuming that EVERY case includes a tape of all interviews of witnesses and suspects. Because they simply don't.

Why do you think I am stating they do that in EVERY case? I guess I thought we were being more specific about the Good Sam case.

I believe if you look back in my posts you would find where I wrote about police reports and the accuracy of them. I think I wrote something to the affect that there is a big difference in reporting accuracy & detail when an officer jots notes on a note pad and writes up the report two days later.

QUOTE

Secondly, if you don't have the money for your own lawyer, a court appointed one may not give you the time of day. They get paid the same whether they do their job or not.

And if you are a victim, you don't have a choice of who represents you at all.

I believe if a defendant thought their public defender was not doing an adequate job for them, they could request a change. Defendant's are not as limited to resources as you make it seem.

I'm just speaking in general too.

QUOTE

In this case I think the girls are getting off easy on the charges brought against them. They're lucky to not face the risk of walking away with a felony or having to register as sex offenders.

I agree if that's what happens here.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 09 2008,8:50 pm

From the < Alzheimer’s Association Online Community. >

The < nursing home abuse lawyer blog > and the < Terry Law Firm > calls it < girls gone wild. >

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,9:17 pm

Thanks Maddog for the link. :thumbsup:

Something has been bothering me about the 15 page report by Mn Dept. HS findings and I needed to re-read it to substanciate my feeling.

The Department HS found no fault with Good Sam stating they had complied with State Regs.

Sure...AFTER the fact.
But what was done beforehand to prevent the abuse :dunno:

They put teenage girls together ALONE...again, where is the supervision?

But, my real problem with their findings has to do with employee T (nurse) who stated to department of human services that on March 21, 08 that AP #5 (alleged perp.) told her off campus that she was uncomfortable with things that have been going on. Nurse T told AP #5 she had to report it as she's a mandated reporter. But then Employee T (nurse) never checked back with AP 5 to see if she reported anything.
Does anyone else see a problem with this???
They are mandated reporters, especially the nurse and she NEVER followed up with this way back in March. Yet this abuse was allowed to continue. I don't get it :dunno:

My question is why did nurse T, who is in a supervisory position to NA'S, NOT follow-up with what she was told? Why didn't she tell the Director of Nursing or the Director that she heard some disturbing "gossip" :dunno:

It continues with employee K and M who also either HEARD or WITTNESSED abuse and did nothing. Yet MN Dept of HS found no problem with Good Sam???

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,9:22 pm

Who is that guy coming to town on Thurs.?
The one who was interviewed by Meredith Viera when the Good Sam case was on the Today Show.
He's an advocate for the elderly or something?
The guy plans to interview the State, Good Sam., Prosecuting Attny. etc.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,9:57 pm

Okay, Bledsoe (or something like it)
is the guy coming to town Thurs. :clap:

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 09 2008,9:59 pm

Minnow where are you??
I'm feeling a little confrontational...
Are you hiding?

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 09 2008,10:13 pm

QUOTE

MINNOW Society values pretty young girls. It's hard for us to send them down the river like other people. Youth and beauty is fleeting and something you can't buy at any price

I think you are a sick PIG!!! Your comments make me want to vomit. I cannot believe the things that come out of your mouth. You are a sick display of a human being. Your pictures of these girls and your sexual announcements reguarding their behaviors are nothing more then praise for these beasts. Here is what you are, I will define it to the best of my ability...The term sexual predator is used pejoratively to describe a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" manner. Analogous to how a predator hunts down its prey, so the sexual predator is thought to "hunt" for his or her sex partners. People who commit sex crimes, such as rape or child sexual abuse, are commonly referred to as sexual predators!!! You lack morals in which makes you a pervert, debauchee, degenerate, deviant, deviate, freak, weirdo, maybe even a hunter of the weak. Yes you should make your parents and your family PROUD!!! You my son are a waste of breath, perhaps a waste of life. I hope one day you eat each and every word you spoke of sexual praise, and your beauty queens are cheering you on in the deep, deep, breath of dispair. My you once feel the way THREE of the vuneralbe adults died on their death bed, being tourtured and scream for help!!! Reminding you they had NO mind left, but could still scream for help. This all being a joke :rofl:

That these beautiful smart girls found funny. May god have mercy on you and your morals.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 09 2008,10:44 pm

Is there a possibility you misinterpreted my post?

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 09 2008,10:51 pm

QUOTE

Is there a possibility you misinterpreted my post?

Nope I am sorry I read ALL your posts, saw your pics. Thanks NO confusion here.

Posted by bluebunny on Dec. 09 2008,10:53 pm

This strange man is my opinion after your many, many posts, and your great investagating abilities, and your marvelous photo uploading from the internet.

Posted by irisheyes on Dec. 09 2008,11:41 pm

(busybee @ Dec. 09 2008,5:37 pm)

QUOTE

First, I don't know why you're assuming that EVERY case includes a tape of all interviews of witnesses and suspects. Because they simply don't.

Why do you think I am stating they do that in EVERY case? I guess I thought we were being more specific about the Good Sam case.

Sorry, my mistake. Thought we were off topic and talking in general.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 10 2008,6:55 am

Irish...it's all good.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 10 2008,7:03 am

QUOTE

Is there a possibility you misinterpreted my post?

I know that ? is not directed at me, so excuse me for interrupting.

What would be the correct interpretation of your posts about these gals?
I'd like to understand a little better myself.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 10 2008,7:31 am

Why do you want to go there. The fish doesn't know. He is one of those non-thinking "if it feels good guys." No interpretation needed.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 10 2008,7:44 am

Somehow this board is now about minnow.

As my grandpa would say, that's why they call it dope. *Points cyber finger @ minnow*

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 10 2008,8:02 am

(blondmomshell @ Dec. 10 2008,7:44 am)

QUOTE

Somehow this board is now about minnow.

As my grandpa would say, that's why they call it dope. *Points cyber finger @ minnow*

I agree

Let's get back on track with the topic of this thread.

I just read the police report thanks to Maddog's links.
Wow! Crazy, wierd, perverted stuff :crazy:

How can the guy in Wisconson be faced with like 30 years and $300,000 in fines and charged with a felony?
And these girls only gross misdemeaners??

I DON'T GET IT !!!

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 10 2008,8:34 am

If you want a better understanding of what happened read up on the Stanford Prison Experiment.

< http://www.prisonexp.org/ >

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Dec. 10 2008,9:00 am

well Santorini
Lets just say it is Albert Lea

Posted by minnow on Dec. 10 2008,9:47 am

Yep. Albert lea where police and prosecutors lie. That's not the way you convict anybody.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 10 2008,11:30 am

It's not just Albert Lea. There have been well publicized cases from across the nation where female offenders got off easy. Case in point, the teacher from Florida, (Blonde, young, good looking.) She was having sex with her jr.high age student and was given probation...went on to reoffend.

Neither is it about the ALPD being diabolical. Whatever your beef is with the local law enforcement minnow, doesn't mean all crime here is fictionalized. You're so self absorbed and paranoid, (A most irritating personality duo!) that you're not even rational. Why don't you either blog about your case directly, or quit interjecting your b.s. into everything else?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 10 2008,12:10 pm

I don't have a case. There-is-no-case.

QUOTE

An Austin lawyer has filed representation papers in Freeborn County District Court as the lawyer for one of the two adults charged in the case of alleged abuse at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea.

Lawrence Maus, of Baudler Baudler Maus & Blahnik LLP, will serve as the lawyer for Albert Lea High School graduate Brianna Broitzman, 19, who faces 11 counts related to the alleged abuse, including assault in the fifth degree and criminal abuse of a vulnerable adult.

A lawyer for Ashton Larson, 18, who faces 10 similar counts, has not yet been filed, as of Tuesday morning.

According to the Web site for Baudler Baudler Maus & Blahnik, Maus has specialized in the practice of personal injury and criminal defense for the past 30 years.

His areas of practice are personal injury, criminal litigation and family law.

The Web site stated he has extensive jury trial experience. He is a member of the Austin High School sports hall of fame.

Maus declined to comment to the Tribune late Monday afternoon, saying he needs to review all of the reports involved before he makes any kind of statement.

The details of the allegations surfaced after the release of the Department of Health’s report in August that concluded four teenagers were involved in verbal, sexual and emotional abuse of 15 residents at the nursing home in Albert Lea. The residents suffered from mental degradation conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease and dementia.

On Dec. 1, Broitzman and Larson were charged as adults in the case, along with four others who were charged as juveniles for mandatory failure to report suspected abuse. All of the teenagers are now adults.

Looks like Briana has legal council now, good, but Miss Larson does not. I wonder whether the family can afford council. I'm sure Miss Larson would qualify for a public defender. These girls desperately need legal council.

Posted by Botto 82 on Dec. 10 2008,12:26 pm

Somebody dig up that photo of Nelson drunk, in the Shriner's fez.

That should inspire confidence...

Posted by Replicant on Dec. 10 2008,12:43 pm

The original pic is missing, but a revised version was good...
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin....ry23201 >

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 10 2008,1:50 pm

I don't think there will be a problem getting legal council for these girls, for some reason

Just because of all the publicity (if nothing else) this seems to generate. People in California, are saying they don't see anything like this out there even...

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 10 2008,1:52 pm

I must say also, minnow doesnt seem to say very much. But he seems to get everyone's goat.

Posted by hymiebravo on Dec. 10 2008,2:26 pm

(Spock of Vulcan @ Dec. 10 2008,1:52 pm)

QUOTE

I must say also, minnow doesnt seem to say very much. But he seems to get everyone's goat.

You are minnow.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 10 2008,3:17 pm

(Replicant @ Dec. 10 2008,12:43 pm)

QUOTE

The original pic is missing, but a revised version was good...
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin....ry23201 >

Nice picture. I had forgottten about that one. Beer in one hand and Zig Zags in the other.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 10 2008,5:49 pm

The female deputy or cop who interviewed the Albert Lea Girls did not Mirandize them, meaning they were not given their rights, prior to questioning. This means the only way the prosecution can win convictions is by turning the girls against each other. First girl to make a deal wins.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 10 2008,6:42 pm

Reliable source???

Posted by hymiebravo on Dec. 10 2008,7:04 pm

(Liberal @ Dec. 10 2008,8:34 am)

QUOTE

If you want a better understanding of what happened read up on the Stanford Prison Experiment.

< http://www.prisonexp.org/ >

Do you mean in the interrogation process?

Or in some sort of job related way, with the defendents?

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 11 2008,8:37 am

Ya all need to contact:
Wes@aperfectcause.org
E-mail him with your thoughts, ideas, complaints regarding this case.
He is the advocate that will be at the Albert Lea Inn tonite, (thurs.) at 6:30, I believe for a town-hall meeting regarding the Good Sam case.
He is so upset with the way this case is being handled and wants everyone to speak out to our legislature, senate, officials that this will not be tolerated.
He stated this is the worst case he has seen in all the years he has been traveling the country as an advocate for seniors in nursing homes.
He lost his mother to neglect in a nursing home and since then is devoting his life to protecting and advocating for the vulnerable.
Send him your thoughts.

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 11 2008,9:08 am

I was just saying that what these girls did was similar to what happened in the Stanford experiment.

This is the type of stuff that happens when young people are put in a position of power, and then not given adequate supervision.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 11 2008,1:44 pm

I hope that thru all of this the bigger picture of direct care is examined.
I worked in a mental health care direct care position. Pay & training are both minimal, turn over is high. As also with nursing homes, the work is physically, mentally & emotionally taxing. You are physically & verbally attacked by residents. You have to deal with families who can be nasty, demanding & ungrateful, (though some are wonderful.) The hours suck & you have to work evenings, weekends and holidays. The facilities are businesses who care about beds being filled so money is made, no matter if there's enough staff. People are hired often just because they're a body to fill the position. Where I worked they started people before background checks came back & more than once it was discovered the people had criminal, even violent histories.
Direct care won't improve until pay & working conditions improve.
In no way does this excuse or diminish what happened at Good Sams. But facilities will continue to hire people like Broitzman & Larson unless things change.

Posted by justmealmn on Dec. 11 2008,2:03 pm

BLONDMOMSHELL . . . once again you said it like really is at places.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Dec. 11 2008,6:49 pm

Where is this town meeting at?

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 11 2008,10:31 pm

Anyone go to the townhall meeting??
I guess there were quite a few media from all over there.
Wes Bledsoe was also concerned that Good Sam employees were aware of things going on clear back in March. That has been my complaint since reading the Dept. of Health report finding no fault with Good Sam.

Sure Good Sam has good people working there, sure most take great cares with the residents, most are compassionate and caring BUT where is the accountability.

This cannot be swept under the rug. As Mr. Bledsoe stated We are being watched!
How we handle this case will be paramount to how we are viewed as a community and how well we take responsibility to protect our citizens.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 11 2008,10:41 pm

This is beyond Albert Lea....this is a social problem that plague's our country.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 11 2008,10:46 pm

Well, I decided to go to the townhall meeting tonight. Not to speak out, but to be a mouse in the corner. That didn't last long.

You'll see this on the news and read it in the Tribune tomorrow. I just want to get my perspective of what really happened tonight.

If anyone who was present would like to add to my comments please do and if you're not comfortable posting here you can email me at MADDOG@web-room.net I do know that there were many there who do read this forum. After the meeting I went over to sign up for his emailings and several women came up to me and thanked me for speaking. I was carrying a note pad and they asked me what paper I was with. I told them I would be posting on the forum. Immediately they all wanted to know who I was on here. They have my calling card now. :blush:

There were 8 camera crews there. One was obviously with Wes Bledsoe. I'm not sure where they all were from, but I could see that CBS, FOX and ABC affiliates were present. Even though channel six said they expected a full house, there were only about fifty to sixty people seated in the audience. What was obviously absent were that NO county, city or Good Samaritan representatives were in the audience.

Who was present were at least one former employee from Good Sam's who spoke out on the care and oversight at the home as a reason she left and one woman whose mother in law was one of the abused residents.

Mr. Bledsoe started out by saying that the Mayor's office, Good Sam's and our County Attorney declined to come to the meeting. Bledsoe did say that tomorrow he was meeting with Craig Nelson. Craig asked him to share with him what the thoughts and temperment of the people there was.

O.K., this is my first public comment. I promptly stood up and stated that "He should have come then."

Sorry, Craig, but everyone applauded.

Wes said that there needs to be changes in laws in our country to better protect our aging vulnerable population. He urged everyone to call or write their congressman. That there are laws on the table such as the Elder Justice Act that need to proceed through federal legislation.

He stated he wondered where our society has gone to have these kinds of abuse happen so frequently and that since the story of this case hit, four more throughout the country have occurred. He continued to use the term "moral compass."

Mr. Blodsoe stressed that these girls are in fact innocent until proven guilty. He said he couldn't believe though how long this took to progress after the first findings. He said he couldn't believe how that as stated in the MDH findings how the charge nurses and the administration of Good Sams took so long to report. He was extremely dissappointed in that after all this had taken place that the MDH could find in their report 0 stressed ZERO deficiencies had been found. He said "criminal acts are committed by criminal offenders in long term care facilities."

The temper of the crowd was not aimed so much at these girls as it was at the administration of Good Sams and the County Attorney. Nelson's name was repeatedly brought up. Bledsoe asked if he was elected. Quite a few mentioned him as the attorney who sued the county for more wages and that he went out of the county to hire an attorney to represent him in that. Many people also asked what could be done to change laws to better protect our older, more vulnerable.

Both women I mentioned did speak up, the one as to why she left and the gal whose mother in law was one of the abused spoke out a couple of times, the last when she told the group how this affected her family broke down and was consoled by Wes.

I should mention that Daryl Meyer was present and did offer his many years of experience in the field of human services and what he has seen. He was well spoken and I thank him for coming and speaking.

Mr. Bledsoe repeatedly asked every person there and everyone they could tell to call Craig Nelson's office tomorrow and voice their opinion. He even pleaded with us to call his office and announced Craig's phone number. 377-5192

As I said, Mr. Bledsoe will be meeting with Nelson tomorrow and he will be bringing with him the number of a prosecutor who is offering their knowledge and experience in this type of physical and sexual abuse and to show Nelson how to proceed and successfully prosecute these as felonies. He told us that when he meets with him that he would like to go through the statutes that could be used to prosecute this as it felt that Wes did not believe the charges were just, but Nelson told him he probably wouldn't have time for that. :angry:

After this I told Mr. Bledsoe that I believe, and the people here tonight can verify this. That this county may have not one but two trials coming in the future. One for the girls and the other will be for our County Attorney. Again, the group applauded to show there agreement.

If I can leave you with one thing from tonight, it's this. Tomorrow, follow Mr. Bledsoe's request and call Craig Nelson at 507-377-5192. Flood his office with your calls.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 11 2008,10:50 pm

This cannot be swept under the rug. As Mr. Bledsoe stated We are being watched!

So what?
I make decisions with a deep sense of core beliefs. I don't make them to portray a certain outwardly image. This is real life, not a TV show. :angel:

How we handle this case will be paramount to how we are viewed as a community

Oh poppycock. Anyone who's superficial enough as to make a judgment of a whole community based on this?...well, their opinion doesn't matter anyway.
how well we take responsibility to protect our citizens.

How well we do that, is how well we alter the basic structure of how homes operate. We should do this anyway, due to the huge influx of boomers on the way.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 11 2008,10:59 pm

Minnow, you're a hoot!

One more thing. Let me offer Mr. Bledsoe's info.

< http://www.APerfectCause.org >

Wes@APerfectCause.org

Posted by countryboy on Dec. 11 2008,11:03 pm

I am with Maddog, I will be calling tomorrow and encourageing Nelson's office to pursue felonies.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 11 2008,11:09 pm

Let me see if I've got dis. "The temper of the crowd was not aimed so much at these girls as it was at the administration of Good Sams and the County Attorney"

yet,

...all you're calling for is felonious charges for teenagers?

and so is Bledsoe?

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 11 2008,11:22 pm

This was not a lynch mob crowd. Yes, the people want justice. Many felt the CA was not bringing severe enough charges. Obviously so did Bledsoe and who ever the attorney is that is willing to get Nelson some advise or pointers, but many also stated that these women who are accused also deserve their day in court.

QUOTE

all you're calling for is felonious charges for teenagers?

If the shoe fits.

You and many here keep referring to these two as "girls" and "teenagers." It's time to start referring to them as what they are. They are women. They are of legal age. (And before you say anything, yes, I do believe that 18 yo. should be given more legal rights.) They are after all adults.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 11 2008,11:30 pm

QUOTE

Both women I mentioned did speak up, the one as to why she left and the gal whose mother in law was one of the abused spoke out a couple of times, the last when she told the group how this affected her family broke down and was consoled by Wes.

I noticed this comment and thought about the impact abuse has on secondary victims. No one close to the victim (s) is untouched. I have first hand experience with this when it comes to my own children.

QUOTE

Flood his office with your calls.

I'm not at all trying to minimize the efforts of this because I think abusing another human being is not taken seriously enough by our society as a whole, by our laws, etc...but I hope some of you remember that there are other victims that Mr. Nelson's office is trying to fight for also.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 11 2008,11:44 pm

(busybee @ Dec. 11 2008,11:30 pm)

QUOTE

Her name is out now. Jan Reshatar told how this had affected her family and that it was the worst thing that had ever happened in her life. That this allegedly abused woman was closer to her than her brother.

QUOTE

"The temper of the crowd was not aimed so much at these girls as it was at the administration of Good Sams and the County Attorney"

I didn't say that some people did show hostility and had some choice words describing the two women, but I felt the most hostility was more towards the administration of Good Sams and the CA.

Hiding in the corner is not what these two guys should have done tonight. But then, our County Attorney most often can't even make it to Board meetings.

QUOTE

People are getting together because they are concerned about whats happening in their community.

Sorry for copy paste from another thread Spock.

That true. Many did speak up to say that we have to remember that this is not Albert Lea, but two women who live in Albert Lea. They are concerned what people will think about our community. But then, hence; the mayor's office declined to attend.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 12 2008,5:51 am

QUOTE

It's time to start referring to them as what they are. They are women. They are of legal age. (And before you say anything, yes, I do believe that 18 yo. should be given more legal rights.) They are after all adults.

Oh, BS! There's no diference between these girls than a few months! They should all be treated the same.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 12 2008,6:26 am

Prosecutors say Broitzman and Larson considered the abuse "something fun to do at work." The two were confident they wouldn't get caught because "residents did not have their minds," a co-worker told investigators.

It reminds me of the problem the catholic church has had with it's priests and young boys in the past. As it has come to light, the priesthood had become a haven for such pediohpiles. And while it had been common knowledge that this was happening for years, in certain preverted circles. Similar to how Larry Craig, opened up everyones eyes, what happens in public bathrooms at airports and other places across the land. The common person had no idea, that this was going on.

Maybe what's really needed are camera's at the nursing homes to prevent this. And find out how much is REALLY goin on...

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 12 2008,6:43 am

Thank you Maddog. I will be calling Nelson's office today.

As of now I'm putting Mr.Hunglikeaminnow on ignore. Suggest others do too. It's not that I can't tolerate others' opinions, but there's no point in a battle of witts with the mentally unarmed. Can't control all the bad stuff in the world but I can eliminate one more ******* with the click of my mouse.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 12 2008,6:44 am

I'd rather be dead than end my years in one of those places.

But, if I were in one those places, those girls would've provided endless entertainment. :blush:

Posted by Alfy Packer on Dec. 12 2008,8:30 am

Why delay? Check in now! You already qualify as being brain dead.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 12 2008,9:08 am

(minnow @ Dec. 11 2008,10:50 pm)

QUOTE

Minnow,
You are merely controversial for the sake of controversy.
You like to be objectionable.
You like to try to ruffle feathers.
Because of this...
I do not care what you have to say.
It's all baseless and unfounded.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 12 2008,9:18 am

It is going to be very interesting to see how this all pans out. :dunno:

Why is the federal gov't not involved since federally mandated laws are on the books to protect residents of nursing homes??
And, how nicely orchestrated this has all been so far!
First the Attn. General's office IS involved until SOMEONE decided to sue the Mn. Dept. of Health at which time the Attny. General's office had to back out to defend the state office instead of assisting in prosecuting these girls. Confilict of Interest and all.
GEE, I wonder which of the perps lawyers thought THAT one up!!

Posted by Old Cracker on Dec. 12 2008,9:53 am

(minnow @ Dec. 12 2008,6:44 am)

QUOTE

But, if I were in one those places, those girls would've provided endless entertainment. :blush:

Next month you can find out how fun it is to have young people torture, ASSault, and rape you for a decade.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 12 2008,11:08 am

huh?

I'm scared, I want my mamma.

Posted by Mamma on Dec. 12 2008,11:49 am

Too bad, Minnow, Mamma won't hear your screams when they are yelling " who's your daddy". Maybe assault won't be so funny to you. You have evidently never visited anyone in a resthome. If you had actually visited someone there you would know that they are little more than infants. To find any humor at all in this situation shows your lack of character and morals.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 12 2008,11:53 am

Either got to laugh or cry and it only hurts when I cry. :angel:

Posted by Krusty on Dec. 12 2008,12:22 pm

tboyttinga my grandmother had what was called senility, and to control her, the home kept the medication coming so she would stay in bed and not cause trouble or hurt herself. As kids we would visit her and often all she would do was moan and rock back and forth in the bed. The few times she would say words, there wasn't any meaning to what was said. Kind of like what you do on this forum.

We would go to visit her every week for years and it never got any better. The nursing home was clean but the smells were really something awful. Count me with Mamma, you have showen a total lack of character in your post about this topic. You are a fool to think you have been funny.

Posted by Joe The Plumber on Dec. 12 2008,2:12 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 12 2008,6:44 am)

QUOTE

I'd rather be dead than end my years in one of those places.

But, if I were in one those places, those girls would've provided endless entertainment. :blush:

Maybe next time it won't be a good looking chick , and it will be some hairy guy that shoves a broom handle up your A$$ sideways. :blush:

That will change your attitude from laughing to crying fast. :rofl:

Posted by minnow on Dec. 12 2008,2:20 pm

I guess we know why you call yourself a plumber now! :rofl:

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 12 2008,3:01 pm

Minnow is one of the perps!!!
Has to be...or connected to one of them!!!
Otherwise he wouldn't be defending them so :crazy:

Posted by hymiebravo on Dec. 12 2008,3:23 pm

If he(minnow) wanted to be funny.

He should have super-imposed 90 year old guys onto the posters in that one gals room

Posted by busybee on Dec. 12 2008,11:33 pm

Today when I was at the courthouse someone was going visiting offices by the courtrooms because they wanted to know why the lights were on in Courtrooms 2 & 3 when there hadn't been anyone in them for at least the last 20 minutes. As a taxpayer this person wanted to know WHY... :laugh:

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 15 2008,7:47 am

(minnow @ Dec. 10 2008,5:49 pm)

QUOTE

Not always true!!
In some jurisdictions detention differs at law from an arrest.
Police are not required to give the Miranda warning until the person is arrested for a crime.
In those situations a person's statement are generally admissable even though the person was not advised of his rights.

Posted by pantalonesverdes on Dec. 15 2008,8:57 am

(Santorini @ Dec. 15 2008,7:47 am)

QUOTE

(minnow @ Dec. 10 2008,5:49 pm)

QUOTE

OK you wannabe lawyers, here is the deal on Miranda. It is required only for CUSTODIAL interrogations or interviews. Meaning, it is required only for questioning when one is under arrest and is not free to leave. The police don't have to automatically read you your rights when they arrest you, either. Here is one resource:
< http://www.answers.com/topic/miranda-rule >
Pay close attention to the part on "confusion regarding use"

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,10:55 am

If these girls are so bad, so evil, why did they seem to confess even though they didn't have to?

Hey girls, you wanna come down to the station and tell us things we can use against you? Girls: Sure!

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Dec. 15 2008,11:05 am

Because they weren't that smart, regardless of good or evil. Just like they thought they would never get caught. Because the people they were abusing are mentally lacking.

It's a Fredo Corleone deal.

You don't have to be a genuis to be bad, you just have to want to...

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,11:18 am

They'll walk with a good attorney.

Posted by theothertwin on Dec. 15 2008,6:57 pm

I would hope they will serve some jail time... my goodness... if it were my parents I would be so angry.... Minnow I don't understand all your postings... are you thinking what they did was funny? Is your initials AB? I hope not...

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 15 2008,7:00 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 15 2008,11:18 am)

QUOTE

They'll walk with a good attorney.

I think that's what the citizens of Freeborn County and, well, most of the country are afraid of.

QUOTE

I also wonder why Craig Nelson's e-mail address has been removed from the County website. I wanted to send him an e-mail but don't know the address.

< tribune comments >

I've seen several comments of the Tribune site about our CA's email being removed from their site and also the < County's website. > I'm not sure if it ever was on the county's site, but if someone wants to post it over on the Trib's site again, it's Craig.Nelson@co.freeborn.mn.us It would be interesting to see if the Tribune is pulling it off. It's public knowledge.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,8:05 pm

Why is convicting, only these two girls and not the others as felons, so important to you Maddog?

And isn't forgiveness more important?

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 15 2008,8:24 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 15 2008,8:05 pm)

QUOTE

Why is convicting, only these two girls and not the others as felons, so important to you Maddog?

And isn't forgiveness more important?

I guess you'd have to show me where I said that?

Cannot they be punished and forgiven?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,8:53 pm

Is it fair to punish two as felons while the rest get let go without any record? What's a few months really between ages? This is grossly unjust to begin with.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 15 2008,9:36 pm

QUOTE

And isn't forgiveness more important?

Depends upon who you think should forgive. Victims. Law Enforcement. Prosecution. Defense. Parents. Children. Other Relatives. Friends. Citizens of Albert Lea. A Higher Power. Employers. Law makers.

As a victim of abuse myself along with children who have been witness to it and have experienced some abuse directly also, forgiveness is possible. Forgiveness is something I think most people do for their own emotional well being. In my opinion it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not someone is or isn't guilty of a crime (s) of abuse.

Facts are facts. Abuse is traumatic. What is learned in trauma is never forgotten and that has nothing to do with the ability to forgive.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 15 2008,9:42 pm

QUOTE

This is grossly unjust to begin with.

It was grossly unjust what was done to the victims. That happened FIRST.

Aren't the two oldest of the females the ones who made the most "contact" with the victims?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,9:48 pm

No.

All the girls did basically the same juvenile acts at least according to the police report. We just can't read the juvy reports.

Posted by busybee on Dec. 15 2008,9:53 pm

Are you claiming to have privileged information?

Posted by minnow on Dec. 15 2008,10:02 pm

Isn't it just common sense after-all. All the girls did the same things.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,9:43 am

I have a problem with claims the victim's can't be witness', therefore, there is no witness testimony. While this is true due to their diagnoses of dementia,
where did all the other information come from in the police report and the State Health Services report??
SOMEONE made claims of who did what.
It's spelled out in those aforementioned reports??
Are they then not witness'??

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,9:52 am

Why not go back to employee T (nurse) who was told on March 21 by AP #5 "things" were going on she wasn't confortable with.
Make them elaborate.
Is this not witness testimony by AP #5??

Employee M (aide) stated she WITNESSED...?
Is this not witness testimony??

Employee K knew back in January when the girls began to tell her things??
Is that stricktly hear-say??

Come On!!
There IS witness' that can testify.

And please quit referring to the alleged perps as
"Girls" they are adult "WOMEN"!!!

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,10:05 am

(minnow @ Dec. 15 2008,9:48 pm)

QUOTE

No.

All the girls did basically the same juvenile acts at least according to the police report. We just can't read the juvy reports.

First of all, these were not juvenile acts!!

These were clearly orchestrated, planned, degradating,
humanly offensive adult acts.
Evident by the length of time it went on.

Second, so orchestrated were the acts that the women pulled the curtain, or shut a door in some instances.
This is premeditation.
They knew exactly what they were doing and to whom.
This was no childish prank.

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 16 2008,10:11 am

Santorini, I believe it may have been the minor girls involved who reported most of the specifics, along with the admissions of Larson & Broitzman.
A few weeks back I was trying to follow another web board about this case, ( Can't remember the addy, interesting enough one of the users used the handle BriannaBroitzman.) It eluded to a girl name Steph being the one who started the ball rolling in this case. I'm guessing maybe she's the one fired for swearing and then ratted out the others.
I'm wondering if some of those girls maybe wanted to tell but were scared? When the nursing home and police finally stepped in, it could be they were relieved to finally tell. I don't know this...I'm simply going off my experience working with teens.
I really think teens are too young to be placed in mandated reporter roles. They may feel scared to report do to fear of the perps and social ramifications. At my former place of employment working with emotionally and behaviorally disturbed youth, the age requirement was 21...and even then it was apparent that some younger staff were not emotionally mature enough to perform the job. I do not think they should be exempt from charges of assault or rape or other deliberate acts of malice. The capacity to commit a crime and the courage to report are not one in the same.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,10:22 am

Blondmomshell,
(love your handle :thumbsup:

)

My concern is that a nurse that is mandated by the state to report was made aware of "something uncomfortable" back in March and did nothing.

This is where the responsibility needs to lie.

I too work in healthcare. Incidentially, currently with the senior population.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,10:23 am

Maddog,

I received an e-mail from Wes Bledsoe and was hoping to forward it to you.
Is that possible??

Posted by blondmomshell on Dec. 16 2008,11:01 am

Santorini thanks! (Incidently I have to fight the urge to call you Santa.)

The issue with the nurse being informed of something going on, outside of the work enviroment really bothers me too. It's the point that got me to wondering about the minors involved and where they may have been mentally/emotionally. Teens don't communicate as directly as adults may. That girl who addressed the nurse was probably reaching out in a way that felt safe to her. I'm so upset that the nurse didn't listen and didn't follow up. As far as I'm concerned she should be charged with failure to report.
If you looked at the MySpace & facebbook pages or know anyone who went to school with Larson & Broitzman, its apparent that these were girls with power and clout. They wielded it in a malicious and evil manner which was fueled by a atmosphere of neglect and appathy.
I've heard and read some questions as to why Larson and Broitzman are being charged differently than the others. Yes they are the only two legally adults when this occurred but also as of yet they are the only two who apparently commited acts of assault and inappropriateness. The other girls witnessed and didn't report. One very simple way that this entire situation could have been avoided is to not schedule together or exclusively together, individuals who may be tied together socially. Also to not have a group of teenagers work alone, unmonitored. And as mentioned earlier the notion of teenagers as mandated reporters needs to be objectively examined.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 16 2008,1:16 pm

QUOTE

yet they are the only two who apparently commited acts of assault and inappropriateness

BS, they all did stuff only the first girl caught was underage and we can't know what's in their files.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 16 2008,1:35 pm

I found one thing interesting with the meeting of Bledsoe and the CA. The Tribune reported

QUOTE

The founder and president of a nationally known nursing home watchdog group met with Freeborn County Attorney Craig Nelson on Friday to discuss the allegations of abuse at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea.

Wes Bledsoe, of nonprofit organization A Perfect Cause, described the gathering with Nelson and four members of his staff as “a very productive meeting.”
< Advocate meets with County Attorney >

Yet in an email circulating that is time indexed after this meeting, Bledsoe's email states:

QUOTE

Here’s your call to action!

Please call Craig Nelson… the Freeborn County Attorney in Albert Lea, MN… as soon as possible today. Please send this appeal to ALL on your email lists… plus ask family, friends, associates, and co-workers to call.

Nelson’s office number is 507.377.5192.

You can even fax him at 507.377.5196. I do not have his email address but anyone who does have it, please send it to me and I will circulate that too.

We invited Nelson to attend the town hall meeting last night. He declined, saying he’d “wait to see what happened in the media and hear from the court of public opinion.”

So… here’s your chance to be the “court of public opinion.”

What do we want?

1. Felony Charges filed against the alleged assailants

2. If convicted, the assailants should be required to register as sex offenders

3. If he chooses not to file felony charges, he should immediately recuse himself and turn the case over to the MN Attorney General’s Office due to a conflict of interest

Why?

1. The families of the Good Samaritan Society – Albert Lea (nursing home) victims and many citizens of Albert Lea have asked us for our help.

2. Nelson has

a. Charged the alleged assailants of these victims with only class five misdemeanors

b. Stated the assailants will "most likely will face suspended jail sentences and probation, so they'd have the threat of jail hanging over them if they get in more trouble”

c. A conflict of interest due to a reported relationship with at least one of the alleged assailant’s families (he therefore should recuse himself and his office from the case)

3. The alleged assailants are smarter than the County Attorney, as reported the alleged assailants targeted victims who could not tell on them and if they did, that no one would believe them

a. Nelson’s office states the victims are not reliable witnesses

4. Failure to prosecute physical and sexual battery committed against vulnerable adults by caregivers sends a loud and clear message that it is open season on any long-term care residents in the future

5. The alleged criminal acts committed against these elderly and vulnerable adults should be considered as “Hate Crimes”

Background on the case

Larson – Complaint - < http://stmedia.startribune.com/documen....iacyKUU >

Broitzman – Complaint - < http://stmedia.startribune.com/documen....iacyKUU >

Minnesota Department of Health – Investigative Report - < http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs....019.pdf >

More to Come

Yes, I am upset about the State of Minnesota and CMS’ policy to cite ZERO deficiencies if facilities “self-report” and “offer an acceptable plan of correction.” These agencies will be our next target, but I want to give them an opportunity to talk and modify this policy before we move on them.

Yesterday was an incredible experience. We met with two families… had seven television interviews throughout the day… two print media interviews… met with an ally who is funneling information to us… plus the town hall meeting.

Here’s what the media had to say about…

Last Night’s TOWN HALL MEETING

Star Tribune

Families sound off on abuse at Albert Lea nursing home

< http://www.startribune.com/local/36022444.html?elr=KArksUUUU >

Albert Lea Tribune

< http://www.albertleatribune.com/news....se-case >

Advocate stirs debate on elder case

KIMT

Good Samaritan Abuse Charges Get National Attention

< http://www.kimt.com/news/local/36024879.html >

FOX 9

Town Hall Meeting Addresses Albert Lea Nursing Home Abuse

< http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox....d=3.2.1 >

KXMC

Minn. nursing home hit hard by abuse allegations

< http://www.kxmc.com/News/308028.asp >

WCCO

Nursing Home Hit Hard By Abuse Allegations

< http://wcco.com/health/nursing.home.abuse.2.885548.html >

KSTP

Minn. nursing home hit hard by abuse allegations

< http://kstp.com/article/stories/S702828.shtml?cat=1 >

KAAL

Family Members Speak Out on Nursing Home Abuse

< http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S702744.shtml?cat=10151 >

KTTC

Family member appalled over nursing home charges

< http://www.kttc.com/global/story.asp?s=9508954 >

KARE 11

Albert Lea community speaks out about nursing home allegations

< http://www.kare11.com/news....atid=14 >

Yes… we can… and together… we are… making a difference!

Many thanks for all!

Wes

Wes Bledsoe

Citizens’ Advocate & Founder

A Perfect Cause

1501 N. Broadway Blvd., Bldg B

Oklahoma City, OK 73103

C – 405.308.3858

C – 405.802.2903

Wes@APerfectCause.org

< www.APerfectCause.org[/QUOTE] > If the meeting was so productive??

Posted by Liberal on Dec. 16 2008,2:16 pm

QUOTE

The alleged assailants are smarter than the County Attorney, as reported the alleged assailants targeted victims who could not tell on them and if they did, that no one would believe them

Our little County Attorney sure makes a good first impression.

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,10:16 pm

Posted by Santorini on Dec. 16 2008,10:23 pm

Maddog,
You are good!!! :thumbsup:

Thanks for all the links!!

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 17 2008,11:33 am

(Liberal @ Dec. 16 2008,2:16 pm)

QUOTE

The alleged assailants are smarter than the County Attorney, as reported the alleged assailants targeted victims who could not tell on them and if they did, that no one would believe them

Our little County Attorney sure makes a good first impression.

After reading an email I received yesterday, I'd say his britches are too big for him too.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 17 2008,1:55 pm

Over the years, you've insisted that your prosecutors prosecute a drug war on America's own people. You did not insist that they declare on high school age nursing home offenders.

End of story.

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 17 2008,3:49 pm

(minnow @ Dec. 17 2008,1:55 pm)

QUOTE

Over the years, you've insisted that your prosecutors prosecute a drug war on America's own people. You did not insist that they declare on high school age nursing home offenders.

End of story.

You referring to me?

Posted by busybee on Dec. 18 2008,10:00 am

I have to ask the same question as Maddog....

You referring to me?

minnow...you should know by now that NOT everyone has the mind-set that you think they do.

Why not just ask the question to find out instead of assuming and placing everyone in one category and yourself as some lone-ranger who could possibly be the ONLY one who really understands?

I think the question is pretty simple...What do forum members think laws of our society should value more; illegal drug crimes or crimes of violence/abuse/assault in which there are victims?

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 20 2008,4:19 pm

Gotta give the Tribune credit on this article. < What caused Opal Sande to change? >

QUOTE

Last fall, Good Samaritan Society resident Opal Sande changed. She fussed when someone wanted to take her photograph. She slapped hands away whenever relatives would touch her. In fact, she sometimes shoved people away.

Opal suffered from dementia and Alzheimer’s disease. Relatives speculated the behavior was part of the progression of the disorders. But then her edgy behavior stopped abruptly in May. She returned to being a calm, approachable woman. Then a Good Sam nurse informed relatives that Opal possibly had been a victim of abuse.

“I know this stuff that was happening to her affected her in that way,” said Sande’s daughter, Myrna Sorensen of Alden.

However, the Good Sam nurse could not divulge what kind of abuse because of ongoing investigations. Sorensen and her brothers were left wondering whether it was physical, emotional or sexual in nature.

It wasn’t until the day before a Minnesota Department of Health report came out in August that Good Sam was able to tell Sorensen the state investigation found her mother had been a victim of various kinds of abuse.

But that left another question: Who are the relatives of the other alleged victims? Because of privacy laws, Good Sam was unable to tell her.

< HIPAA Pivacy Rules > are proving to be a little too extreme as to protect perpetrators from being persued in court. Laws need to be modified.

QUOTE

Opal Sande died on Sept. 23, two months shy of her 90th birthday. She had seven grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren.

Was this or the other two deaths of abused residents premature because of what happened to them?

QUOTE

Sorensen would like to know the other relatives of alleged victims in the elder abuse case. She said she also wants to form a Freeborn County support group for victims of elder abuse and their friends and families, whether they are connected to the same case as her mother or to any case.

The allegations of abuse by teenage female certified nursing assistants have left families looking in hindsight with questions over behavior of their loved ones. The Department of Health report and Albert Lea Police Department investigation said the victims suffered from dementia and Alzheimer’s disease.

More victims' families coming out could possibly help prosecution? The prosecutor won't and has not sought them out.

Posted by minnow on Dec. 20 2008,4:53 pm

QUOTE

too extreme as to protect perpetrators from being persued in court.

No, what's extreme is for you to call them perpetrators before a trial and conviction big guy. :;):

So, now you want to put together a totally circumstancial murder case against these girls?

What a joke. :lalala:

Posted by MADDOG on Dec. 20 2008,6:18 pm

Not putting the whole thing in context, huh?

QUOTE

HIPAA Pivacy Rules are proving to be a little too extreme as to protect perpetrators from being persued in court. Laws need to be modified.

QUOTE

what's extreme is for you to call them perpetrators

See, who are you referring as to as "them?"

QUOTE

Over the years, you've insisted that your prosecutors prosecute a drug war on America's own people. You did not insist that they declare on high school age nursing home offenders.

End of story.

You still didn't say if you were referring to me. :dunno:

By the way, so I don't forget. Merry Christmas minnow. :angel:

Posted by MAKER on Dec. 20 2008,9:17 pm

this may have already been posted, but it is the first time I've read the whole report.

< http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1202081minn1.html >

Posted by busybee on Dec. 21 2008,2:21 am

Minnow...get a grip. You know just as well as I do that what those gals did was WRONG!

Actually, I would expect better from you considering you know that prosecuting and delivering harsher punishments for drugs is not as important as murders, abuse, assault, etc.... I thought you knew that drugs, even the legal drug alcohol doesn't make a criminal...and your marijuana argument proves it even more!

I would think you would be supporting the victims, not the accused. Maybe you would take a different position if they were high on alcohol when they abused those residents? Maybe you would take a different position if they smoked cigarettes in the residents rooms instead of rubbing their private areas?

Focus man! I know you can do it! Jeesh! You'd rather see the prisons full of REAL criminals rather than marijuana users/growers/dealers...right?

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 18 2009,7:55 pm

There's another town hall meeting this week.

QUOTE

Albert Lea, MN

Albert Lea Inn

2301 E. Main Street, Albert Lea, MN

Wednesday, January 21

6:30 to 8:30 pm

The Town Hall Meetings:

· Enable citizens to voice their concerns about long-term care

· Brief attendees on current trends, data, reports, and issues:

o Lack of State Surveyors & Investigators

o CMS? Medicare.gov 5 Star Rating System

o Advancing Excellence in America?s Nursing Homes

o OKNursingHomeRatings.com

o Scope of Resident-on-Resident ?Incidents?

o Sex Offenders Long Term Care Facilities

§ Need to Expand the Scope

o Reporting Criminal Acts in Long Term Care to Law Enforcement

o Video Monitoring in Nursing Homes

o Criminal Background Checks for ALL Staff

o DHS, APS Placements of Residents Who Pose a Risk to Others

o Databases ? Track Criminal Acts in Facilities, by Facility & Offender

o Consensual Sex Policies

o Use of Psychotropic Drugs in Long Term Care Facilities

o Under Staffing, Lack of Certified and Licensed Staff

o Appropriate Resident Care (ARC) Facilities

What can we do?

· Remain Vigilant

· Sign-up on < A Perfect Cause > website.

Posted by minnow on Jan. 19 2009,4:00 am

^All it takes is $$$. These places don't get enough. One must plan for their own retirement or end up with substandard care in one of these places.

However, I'm not conceding some super pretty teen girl putting her bare cookie in my face or vigorously washing my junk substandard care.

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Jan. 19 2009,4:38 am

If you can't take care of yourself, all the money in the world won't help. There's assisted living etc. But that only goes so far, when you get something like Alzheimers etc.

Unless maybe you have a realitve that loves you enough to take care of you.

Most don't.

You may also find, that when your older, it becomes painful to have sex from one medical complication to the next. So like that ancient chinese proverb: Be careful what you wish for....

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Jan. 19 2009,5:50 am

Or maybe there's that dreadful moment of reality Where you're expecting a 19 year old cutie.

Maybe that's sort of how the women felt at Good Sam?

And maybe why this sort of stuff needs to be nipped in the bud, but good!

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 21 2009,10:41 pm

It was mentioned that in the state of Minnesota, it's possible to be charged with a felon for animal abuse, and yet,

QUOTE

County Attorney Craig Nelson says he can't file for felony level charges.

"Minnesota has vulnerable adult statutes and those statues where crimes are alleged are at the gross misdemeanor level."

WTF is wrong with our laws!

Posted by howie on Jan. 22 2009,12:03 am

(MADDOG @ Jan. 21 2009,10:41 pm)

QUOTE

It was mentioned that in the state of Minnesota, it's possible to be charged with a felon for animal abuse, and yet,

QUOTE

County Attorney Craig Nelson says he can't file for felony level charges.

"Minnesota has vulnerable adult statutes and those statues where crimes are alleged are at the gross misdemeanor level."

WTF is wrong with our laws!

We elect too many bleeding hearts?

Posted by Botto 82 on Jan. 22 2009,12:59 am

Second-time DUI offenders get rougher treatment.

Posted by No more rash on Jan. 22 2009,8:19 pm

You know Hugh Hefner is still looking for new girlfriends. He's 82 now about the right age for Brianna and Ashley.

Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 22 2009,11:54 pm

QUOTE

Posted by observer (anonymous) on January 22, 2009 at 11:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I see the Trib is back at the bs sensoring again, does the truth hurt or is it the terrible two's family friends deleteing.

Posted by observer (anonymous) on January 22, 2009 at 11:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

< www.albertlea.com > allows you to voice your opinion and doesn't remove legitimate posts!

< Tribune >

Posted by minnow on Jan. 23 2009,3:44 am

Don't kid yourself. Every place censors, even Albertlea.com.

Don't ever chit yourself.

Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 21 2009,7:00 pm

Go figure. I was just talking about this earlier this afternoon.

QUOTE

The attorneys for both of the young women charged as adults in the case of alleged abuse at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea have filed motions in Freeborn County District Court to suppress statements obtained from their clients to law enforcement officials.

Freeborn County Attorney Craig Nelson said he received a notice of motion in the mail on Tuesday from Larry Maus, Brianna Broitzman’s attorney, requesting a contested omnibus hearing for his client.

Nelson said the court will consider issues such as suppression of statements obtained from Broitzman “on the grounds that the statement was obtained in violation of her constitutional rights,” along with an order of the court dismissing the criminal complaint against her for lack of probable cause.

< full, story >

Posted by MADDOG on Apr. 08 2009,6:56 am

As this gets put off more and more by the defense lawyers and the court system, the reality of what happened keeps sliding farther and farther from people's minds.

This can't be the farther from the truth for some people whose lives have been dramatically changed forever because of these horrific acts.

There is a support group that now meets because of this. It's important to them and me that people don't become numb or forget what has happened and how this has changed not only their lives but should be changing yours as well.

They have penned some thoughts and asked me to let people reading this forum be reminded of this.

QUOTE

I've seen many many comments about how sick this whole situation is. (which it most certainly is) And everyone is second-guessing everyone. What about these charges - Why not those charges - The 2 should be hung out to dry (which a lot of people agree with) and the other 4 should have been charged as adults. (also agreed with by many) However, all things thought about, and second guessed to death, it is what it is. There will be no harsher charges, and unless the judge is an extremely good and compassionate judge, there will be little justice for the 15 known victims and their families.

So, here's my question. What can we as a community do to get things changed?

I have a few thoughts.

1. Nursing homes should not hire anyone in such a responsible job position under the age of 18. (no, this is not against the law. Certain Nursing homes in Rochester have had that policy for years.)

2. GET INVOLVED! Write, email, or call your state and national representatives and senators to make the abuse of vulnerable adults a felony in the Vulnerable Adult Act, not just in the criminal code. Nursing homes have a huge lobby to get your hard earned money, don't you think we should have a lobby that at least ensures we are safe while giving them all our money?

3. GET INVOLVED! Write, email, or call your state and national representatives and senators to make the use of video cameras in all common areas of nursing homes mandatory

4. Get the city/county to invest in an educational program that teaches law enforcement and attorneys (both city and county) how to investigate and charge in vulnerable adult abuse crimes so that these predators can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, not the least possible charges. Such programs are in the making as I type.

As for the April 21st court hearing, we can only hope that nothing is suppressed or dismissed. It would be a great show of support to all victims and families if people from the community would also show up to the hearings.

One last thought...........if we, the community, are unwilling to help change laws, and policy and procedure, what's going to happen to you when you have to go to a nursing home? Please don't tell me how that's not going to happen to you. We are living longer and longer, and the only alternative to nursing home is early death. Our children aren't going to be able to stay home and take care of us as our grandparents did for their parents.

I have attended these town hall meetings over the last couple months and have another one on my calendar for April 16. It will be held at the Albert Lea Inn at 6:30. This is an open meeting. Please if you would like to know more or try to understand what these families are going through, try to attend.

These are not witch hunt meetings like some would like people to believe, but a time when all involved can openly talk. Hope to see you there.

Posted by Bo66y on Apr. 08 2009,9:46 am

I am a friend of one of the victim's families. I don't live in the area, but I have been following this since the news first came out. This situation is horrific to say the very least.
I applaud the people who are trying to get changes made. I applaud the efforts of all involved for trying to keep this story out front so that no one forgets what happened to the victims, their families, and what could happen to the rest of us if we don't make changes.
I have sent letters to the congressman in my state, and I hope you will do the same.
Good luck to the families, and good luck to Albert Lea. I hope you make a huge impact on the state and nation in the nursing home care business.

Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 08 2009,11:38 am

Some people are so insensitive to this situation I hear remarks as to "so what so wrong with the old guy getting his package stimulated by some hot chick, that's the home I want to go to when I am senile".

However you have to remember these people relied on their adult children to make a major decisions that concerned the way they would live and how they were to live the remainder of their lives.

The children feel disappointment, and blame themselves thinking their parents are receiving the best care possible when in reality they put their parents in that home and share in the responsibility for their loved one being abused.

I would compare it to taking my child to daycare and the daycare provider sodomize my child I would blame myself for allowing this person contact with my child.

Posted by Bo66y on Apr. 08 2009,5:53 pm

I've read the investigation. To take that point further to it's reality......."some old guy" was NOT ASKING to have his package stimulated. He wasn't asking to have his privates hit and squeezed until he cried out in anguish. He wasn't asking to have someone thrust their unwanted a$$ in his face. He wasn't asking to have someone stick their unwanted fingers up his rectum. He wasn't asking for someone to play Keep Away with his hat. He wasn't asking for anything except to be treated with respect and dignity. If this were any other adult, any other vulnerable person, or any child, this would have been considered at the very least felony sexual assault, if not rape.
One of the reasons my friend's group is working so hard to get appropriate laws and punishments is because these poor people ARE just like children, and they need to be protected as such. What if one of these predators did this to your 1, 2 or 3 year old son or daughter? Some of these elderly are as helpless as newborn babies. They cannot feed themselves, dress themselves wash themselves or even talk to tell you what they need. Good Lord, if you and I don't protect them........who will? For that matter......who will protect US when we end up in a nursing home?

Posted by theothertwin on Apr. 08 2009,7:03 pm

I agree with you BO66Y This is the worse thing that can happen to the elderly.... My Gosh, Who would want this to happen to one of their parents... I am thinking that they are going to get away with .... Our Justice system is a farce.... Shame on everyone of them involved and the ones that knew and didn't talk,,, Shame, Shame, Shame... they will have to live with this someday when it all comes around on them....

Posted by Botto 82 on Apr. 08 2009,7:07 pm

(theothertwin @ Apr. 08 2009,7:03 pm)

QUOTE

I am thinking that they are going to get away with .... Our Justice system is a farce....

Yes, and Nelson will be there with his hand out again, come raise time.

And shame on the idiot cops that didn't Mirandize those bitches.

Posted by bobber on Apr. 08 2009,9:09 pm

oh my god you saw them out to eat to!!!! They must be super human to go out to eat get off it. You just cant wait can you? Maybe you should camp out front of their homes and give us a report. Get a life!!!!! They have one which someone like you will destroy so shut up!!!! :finger:

Posted by Botto 82 on Apr. 08 2009,11:18 pm

(bobber @ Apr. 08 2009,9:09 pm)

QUOTE

Wow. There's a public school education that didn't go to waste. :crazy:

Posted by allergic to bogus on Apr. 09 2009,2:01 am

clap: LOL & agrees with Botto. Still scratching my head on those comments!!!

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Apr. 09 2009,7:40 am

These girls will just get a slap on the hand. That is how Albert Lea works.
Nelson is one of the BIG problems with Albert Lea. We spend more money on the health care system so that are parents get the best care possible. And look at what care they get... It is really work @ 2000.00 a month for room and board?? At least the was the price it was when my dad was in

Posted by hairhertz on Apr. 09 2009,9:51 am

(theothertwin @ Apr. 08 2009,7:03 pm)

QUOTE

The home administrator and supervisors need to be called out, also.

Posted by Whiskero on Apr. 09 2009,10:51 am

I don't understand how anyone of these people that are writing on this forum are having a fit about how some of us are talking about those 2 girls.
I don't care if they slapped one adult on the butt, ( and they admitted to doing a whole lot more-it is not heresay), it is abuse! As stated above, if this was done to a child, everyone would be up in arms.
And you Bobber, you are the one that needs to get a life! I hope this never happens to someone you love!!!!!!!!!1

Posted by theothertwin on Apr. 09 2009,5:19 pm

Hairhertz ... You are so right... they all need to be held responsible for this... they had no business not having an adult with these minor girls... I just don't understand how they can hold their heads up and act like nothing happened...

Posted by MADDOG on Apr. 11 2009,2:47 pm

If you haven't been to one of these town hall meetings, please make time to come. I've talked to quite a few people that have attended out of curiousity and were glad they had. They have opened up some eyes.

QUOTE

The founder and president of a nationally known watchdog group for nursing homes will be in Albert Lea again this week to host a town hall meeting in connection with the alleged abuse case at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea.

This will be the third town hall meeting in Albert Lea for Wes Bledsoe of A Perfect Cause, a citizens’ advocacy organization in Oklahoma committed to long-term care reform.

The meeting will be from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. Thursday at the Albert Lea Inn.

QUOTE

Reshetar said members of a local elder abuse support group — Familes Against Nursing Home Abuse — are sending out invitations to city, county and state officials to attend the town hall meeting. < Tribune >

This is the really sad part. I've been to both of the previous meetings and I don't believe I've seen even one current public official at either one of them.

I think that in itself speaks volumes to the public and to those directly affected by this. From the city, county and state levels.

A hot issue like this that is directly affecting this community and could have a lasting impact on it and each and every one of them seemed to have crawled under a rock on this.

You'd think that if nothing else, they could draw straws and the short stick gets stuck.

:popcorn:

Posted by busybee on Apr. 12 2009,5:33 am

QUOTE

What an awesome comment!!!

I haven't been coming here very often, especially to this particular thread because I feel sad when people defend abusers. I'm sure this is in part to my own experiences with being abused & the affect it has had on not just me, but also my family & friends.

I don't think abuse of any kind is something to be tolerated. No one deserves it & no one waves their hands in the air & begs for it to be done to them, not even people with without Alzheimer's.

Wasn't there a person who ran over some geese with their vehicle a while ago? Weren't people outraged about that & wasn't the "intent" to punish this person for such horrible behavior that killed the geese? Am I remembering that correctly? I'm not saying that this is ok, but my gosh when it comes to a person purposely setting out to harm another person, even if it's not in the realm of physical abuse...but emotional...such as terrorizing, stalking, harassment, threats, etc...why do we DEMAND FULL PROOF EVIDENCE before a victim has any rights to protection & to feel safe here in our own FREE country?

I can tell you from personal experience the giving of our society as a whole is better for the abusers than the abused. Good Sam is yet another example of how flawed our laws are & how ignorant people still are about the affects of abuse in our society. One victim is not the only person affected by the one who abused them...it has a trickle down affect ...to the one who might be witness to it, to the one who hears about it...for anyone who loves/cares about the victim they become secondary victims. And in all of that pain, typically they all still have to stand alone & hope for accountability rather than having people on the outside looking in helping them.

I applaud anyone who has the guts to advocate for victims rights (by the way it is Child Abuse Prevention Month) & support them.

"All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men and women to do nothing."

Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Apr. 12 2009,5:53 am

Most people can't understand, until it happens to them.

Posted by busybee on Apr. 12 2009,9:50 am

Being a victim or a secondary victim is a terrible way to learn about abuse, yet I would agree with what you wrote...most people who advocate for victims of any age, against any type of abuse, have been there or have been affected by caring about someone who has.

I also think a lot of people don't care to educate themselves even though it is a major problem as a society in our country. I think it's a sad reality.

"Facts can be ignored but their consequences cannot be escaped. If the facts don't matter, this means that the people who are going to have to pay those consequences don't matter." .....Thomas Sowell

Posted by allergic to bogus on Apr. 13 2009,12:09 am

I agree that everyone on this forum who has posted SHOULD attend the meeting on Thursday evening. Hope to see you there.

Posted by Bo66y on Apr. 15 2009,4:17 pm

Anyone going to the Town Hall Meeting tomorrow night? I'm thinking that would be a real good idea for everyone. Me included.
I been thinking about it all, and I came up with this: Who am I gonna trust to make decisions for me when I get old enough to need the help. I don't have much family, and I'm alone....so.......I wonder......will it be possible to make pre-planned or pre-paid nursing home care the same as we make pre-planned and pre-paid funerals in the future?
I think I figured something out about the slowness of all the politicans who are supposedly "looking into" things. The nursing home industry is a huge lobby. Do you suppose those poor victims and their families are just being given lip service? Maybe the Elder Care lobby needs to get out there and start their own advertising campaign to get people on board.
And if you aren't someone that has a family member, or friend, or knows someone with a loved one in a nursing home..........what will it take to get and keep your interest, and to get your help with this situation?
Just things I been thinking on.

Posted by MADDOG on Apr. 15 2009,4:40 pm

I hope you can make it then.

I for one plan to be there. I know of several people who have attended one or both of them who post here.

Posted by MADDOG on Apr. 17 2009,10:09 am

QUOTE

He says ratings don’t function well to explain abuse
By Sarah Stultz | Albert Lea Tribune

Published Friday, April 17, 2009

The Oklahoman founder of a national watchdog group for nursing homes on Thursday called state and national governments to action to change how substantiated abuse cases are cited and how they influence the rating of nursing homes on the federal Medicare.gov Web site.

Because families of nursing home residents rely heavily on this rating system, the information there needs to be accurate and complete, he said. Otherwise, the whole system should be taken away.

During the town hall meeting Thursday, Bledsoe asked the audience members what they would like to know about a nursing home if they were searching for one for a loved one. They all agreed they would want to know if there has been mistreatment or any kind of abuse.

He went through numerous Minnesota Department of Health reports, including the report released last August alleging abuse at Good Sam. Many, including that report, showed there was substantiated abuse. But because the facilities self reported the incidents and implemented a plan of correction before the state health department arrived, they were not cited any deficiencies, he said.

< Tribune >

Last night there were a couple of people from the state there. Darryl Shreve, a policy analyst for Aging Services
of Minnesota was one.

Thank you Sarah for coming!

A big thank you to all the city and local officials who were in attendance. It means so much to the victims families that you are showing your concern.

But I wanted to link you to the medicare site Wes referred to last night as the government has it so buried most people would give up looking.

< My Webpage >

Posted by Bo66y on Apr. 17 2009,9:37 pm

Good meeting last nite! Great to see WCCO, KIMT, and the Tribune were all there.
I agree with Maddog......how nice of the mayor, the city council and the county commissioners to show up.
I wish someone could tell me........why, if Albert Lea is supposed to be represented as a great place to live, and even more, a great place to retire........why isn't the city mayor and council and county commissioners involved with doing as much as possible to get good policies procedures, and laws in place? Would that not ADD to the attractiveness of bringing those retirement dollars to this fair city?
I heard the Ombudsman who came last night, say that what is happening, or NOT happening, to and for the elderly is flat out Ageism. Just like racism and sexism, ageism has raised its ugly head, and it is seen more and more every day, by the lack of interest, care and concern. Come on people! Wake up! We are all going to get old, and unless you have a printing press in your basement, we are going to end up in a nursing home. Statistics say, for every 1 reported abuse, 5 go unreported. That means if you are sitting in a group of 7, only 1 of you will remain unscathed. Which one of you is going to be the lucky one?

Posted by allergic to bogus on Apr. 18 2009,10:15 am

I agree, and would add yet another organization to that list. Where has The Freeborn County Crime Victims Crisis Center been through all of this?

I spoke with several of the victims families. Everyone of them stated that they have not heard from or even noted their presence at any of the meetings. How sad is this???

Posted by busybee on Apr. 23 2009,10:41 am

A2B...I wonder if the cutbacks in funding/budget for these types of organizations would have anything to do with it? I believe the CVCC had to eliminate another paid position with-in the last year because of it. I'm not sure, but I think the CVCC might have only 2 or 3 paid employees with the educational background required to serve the entire county. The rest would be done by volunteers, which those same employees have to train & manage.

Posted by MADDOG on May 02 2009,6:36 am

The next omnibus court appearance for Larson is this Tuesday, May 5th.

Posted by MADDOG on May 02 2009,6:46 am

Yup, they've done it again. Both onmibus hearings set in the next days have been postponed........again until sometime in June now.

Just how long does this judge feel he need to torture the victims and families before this comes to a closure?

Posted by busybee on May 02 2009,4:30 pm

I KNOW exactly what that is like & it is torture! 17 months from start to finish & there was nothing I could do to hurry it along because I had no say.

It should be noted that VICTIMS are supposed to be allowed to request a speedy trial if things are getting delayed by the accused or the court system. Doesn't mean anyone CARES of has to do that though.

Posted by scorenix on May 02 2009,5:14 pm

(busybee @ May 02 2009,4:30 pm)

QUOTE

It should be noted that VICTIMS are supposed to be allowed to request a speedy trial if things are getting delayed by the accused or the court system. Doesn't mean anyone CARES of has to do that though.

No, the victim does not have the right (nor should have) to request a speedy trial. That's vigilante justice. And I'm sorry for anything you've gone through, it still doesn't allow for vigilante justice.

The right to a speedy trial is a defendant's right. And if you've been around the justice system long enough, you know it's a defendant's right. And people can talk about "stringing 'em up" or whatever, the one fact no one wants to talk about is that we now know that through DNA testing, innocent people have been sent to Death Row.

The justice system is not fair. Neither to victims, nor to defendant's, and it's likely it will always be that way. Once it's over, you pick up the pieces and move on. For some it's harder than others, because of what may have occurred, but to change justice for that would run counter to what this country created.

Posted by busybee on May 02 2009,8:43 pm

QUOTE

No, the victim does not have the right (nor should have) to request a speedy trial. That's vigilante justice.

I'm sorry that you feel that way considering a lot has/is being done to help victims get justice.

I copied this from the National Center for Victims of Crime...

GENERAL OVERVIEW

Introduction

Thirty years ago, victims had few legal rights to be informed, present and heard within the criminal justice system. Victims did not have to be notified of court proceedings or of the arrest or release of the defendant, they had no right to attend the trial or other proceedings, and they had no right to make a statement to the court at sentencing or at other hearings. Moreover, victim assistance programs were virtually non-existent.

Since then, there have been tremendous strides in the creation of legal rights and assistance programs for victims of crime. Today, every state has an extensive body of basic rights and protections for victims of crime within its statutory code. Victims' rights statutes have significantly influenced the manner in which victims are treated within the federal, state, and local criminal justice systems.

The core rights for victims of crime include:

* The right to attend criminal justice proceedings;
* The right to apply for compensation;
* The right to be heard and participate in criminal justice proceedings;
* The right to be informed of proceedings and events in the criminal justice process, of legal rights and remedies, and of available services;
* The right to protection from intimidation and harassment;
* The right to restitution from the offender;
* The right to prompt return of personal property seized as evidence;
* The right to a speedy trial; and
* The right to enforcement of these rights.

THE RIGHT TO A SPEEDY TRIAL

A number of jurisdictions give crime victims the right to “a speedy trial” or “disposition of the case free from unreasonable delay.”

In practical effect, and often in the law, the right to a speedy trial takes the form of a limitation on continuances. “Continuances” are court-ordered delays of court proceedings. Many jurisdictions require that, in ruling on a continuance requested by a party, the court must also consider the impact of the delay on the victim.

In addition, several jurisdictions give priority to certain types of cases. They may require that cases involving children, or vulnerable elderly victims, be given preference in setting the court docket.

QUOTE

And I'm sorry for anything you've gone through, it still doesn't allow for vigilante justice.

Thank you for the concern and there is no need for you to be sorry. The kids & I are much better off. (the no direct contact is a blessing!!!) There are still many things that have not changed about the situation, such as the abuser still uses others to have "third party contact," which is not pleasant. Anyway, it is what it is and I can't make an abuser be accountable, not even for the children.

QUOTE

The justice system is not fair. Neither to victims, nor to defendant's, and it's likely it will always be that way. Once it's over, you pick up the pieces and move on. For some it's harder than others, because of what may have occurred, but to change justice for that would run counter to what this country created.

One thing I don't think is fair about the justice system is crimes of abuse/violence is concurrent sentencing. I don't think it should even be considered. I think consecutive sentencing is much more appropriate.

As far as people moving on after being a victim of a violent/abusive crime...you are right...it's not easy. Even after you pick up the pieces, not every day is great. Being a victim of a violent/abusive crime changes the victim (s) & family. For example, how many people scope every store parking lot to make sure they don't run into someone who has hurt them?

Sadly, the majority of violent/abusive crimes that occur, the victim (s) & family KNOW the perpetrator. That is one of the main reason's why our country continues to spin its wheels as far as justice. Ever hear these phrases (???), "I never thought he/she was capable of that & he/she has always been nice to me. w2She/he would give me the shirt of his/her back if I asked for it...NO WAY is he/she like that! He/she has never done anything wrong to me personally, so I'm staying neutral in this. I don't want to be involved, they both have problems...etc...."

What people still do NOT realize is when it comes to abusive/violent crimes is ONE PERSON (S) is always in CONTROL & ONE or MORE people are the VICTIM (S) of that behavior. There is NO EQUALITY in abusive/violent crimes and this is one of the most frustrating beliefs of society that truthful victims have to deal with.

Posted by MADDOG on May 02 2009,10:38 pm

I found this in my old hometown newspaper archives.

QUOTE

A Nursing Home
Resident's
Bill of Rights
I am a resident of a nursing
home.
I am a Human Being, who,
through my contribution to
society during my productive
years, helped to mold a decent
place in life for my generation
and the generations that
followed me.
I like to be treated with respect
and dignity just as I have
always tried to treat others. I
am and have been "Somebody"
over the years, to many
people, such as
My Sweetheart
My Wife
My Husband
My Mother
My Father
My Daughter
My Son
My many Friends
If the waning years have been
unkind to me, please don't
blame me if
I don't see too well
I don't hear too well
I spill my food
I am incontinent
I need help often
I am cranky (though 1 don't
want to be.)
I could be your:
Mother
Father
Grandmother
Grandfather
Some day you may be a "Me"
A little kindness, a soft word
some acknowledgment by you
that I am still a person not
"thing".
This is all I ask.
Is is too much?
—Selected

Posted by Bo66y on May 06 2009,1:05 pm

In speaking to a friend today, it was brought up, that their father, tho 85% cognitive, was very much like a 6 month old baby. He cannot wash himself, dress himself, comb his own hair, brush his own teeth, sit up, stand up, or feed himself.
What he CAN do is, sit, or lay, and wait. Wait for someone to smile at him; wait for someone to talk to him; wait for someone to get him out of bed; wait for someone to wash, dress, comb, shave, and feed him; wait for someone to clean his poor dirty bottom; wait for someone to take him out of the 4 walls that is his "home"; wait for someone to put him back to bed. And through all of this, have a working mind. How extraordinary that a man who is a 1st generation American, fought in WWII, built a good life for his wife and children, and now at the mercy of those who are paid to take care of him, has yet to complain.
Are people angry about the constant postponement of the hearings? Of course. And it's understandable though not avoidable. But there's a bigger issue here. Getting people to CARE about what happens to the elderly!
Are we so naive that we honestly don't think we will ever get old or have to go to a nursing home? I've heard comments such as, "I'll eat rat poison first." What a frivolous and ridiculous thing to say. I truly do not get why people are not "jumping on the band wagon" to get - no DEMAND, that vulnerable adult laws run parallel to those of child abuse! I do not understand how ANYONE can stay "neutral" in this issue. Either you (the public) are FOR the betterment of Vulnerable Adult laws or you aren't. If you aren't.......well.......there isn't much more to be said. I can only conclude that you neither care for anyone around you or yourself, for this well indeed crash into your life in one way or another.

Posted by MADDOG on May 29 2009,1:07 pm

Thought I'd put a link to today's article here. The Tribune seems to always want to bury these stories quickly. It went from the front page to more stories to older stories in a matter of a couple hours.

It seems pretty obvious that the staff up there doesn't want to deal with this.

QUOTE

Look to AlbertLeaTribune.com for information after the hearing.

< hearing-today-teen-elder-abuse-case >

We will.

Posted by meathead on May 29 2009,3:54 pm

HAS ANYONE BEEN TO THE TRIBS ONLINE SITE THIS AFTERNOON? THE LAST PART OF THE STORY SAID, SEE KINDLER' TESTIMONY AT THE TRIB.COM. DID I MISS SOMETHING?

Posted by meathead on May 29 2009,4:07 pm

HOW DID I DO THE DOUBLE POST?

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 30 2009,6:26 am

Don't post from cell phones if you can help it.

Now, you listen up here, especially you maddog!

Those girls were party girls. They were young, free and stupid and did some really dumb things. They are not she devils for crying out loud.

Let the case proceed and shut yer fat trap!

For crying out loud already! :angry:

All you're doing is prejudicing the case. Are you paying the legal bills? She's already paying more than her and her family can afford.

If the police and you were really smart they would've made a deal not to file charges if the girls give their lawyer money to the cops. This way the family's get some $$$.

Cops and prosecutors love deals and money and I think you know how much I know that. Justice? What's that? Grow up! :angry:

Posted by Grandma G on May 30 2009,7:20 am

Who are you any way, Paul? You are a strange one if you can't see they should serve time. I have to tell you a true story. My oldest son (about 32 at the time) was at a Viking football game and saw a young man getting pushed down a flight of cement stairs at the game, when the police were "talking" to him. When he saw this he thought the police had killed him, and they still were "kicking" the young man. So my son ran to help the stranger (wrong thing to do when police are involved) and my son was arrested and put in jail. We helped him pay his legal fees (a lot of money) and then he was put on probation for a year (for trying to help someone). He didn't hurt anyone or steal anything but he had to "pay" his dues because he was trying to help some one when he shouldn't have (the police were involved). My son is a gentle man that came to help a "dieing or hurt" person and he had to "pay", and you think these girls (women) should just be able to walk away? What planet did you come from? Or what kind of parenting did your parents give you?

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 30 2009,7:36 am

These girls should not be punished more severely because you...well...learned the truth about police. In other words your injustice should not be cause for another injustice.

ps--the police are Gods in the field. Your son is very lucky he's not dead. The police are Gods in the courtroom as well. They don't call them professional testiliars for nothing. You have to be a genius and very wealthy to beat the police. Very few do it...the rest end up behind bars.

Posted by Grandma G on May 30 2009,9:08 am

What I am saying is that my son's issue, in my mind, was not as severe as what the women have done and you want them to go free. My son hurt no one (except the cops duty) and he had to be accountable for what he did. I don't understand how you were raised to think what they did was nothing.

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 30 2009,9:44 am

They haven't been found guilty of anything yet except in your mind. Is it OK if we find out what they're guilty of before we discuss sentencing?

Thank you :angel:

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 30 2009,6:20 pm

The following quote is testimony from Flatness about her interview with the girls.

QUOTE

Detective Deb Flatness testified she tried to communicate to the women that the interviews, which were done before their arrest, were voluntary.

Wait a minute...something sounds wishy-washy here.

She tried?.....she what?......tried?

She "tried" knowing that if they understood her they'd realize they shouldn't talk to her.

Trying is a cop out. She should have verified they understood. She's admitting she knows her interviewees did not understand. This cops fudging. NOT cool.

Posted by Botto 82 on May 30 2009,7:09 pm

Apparently, A.L.'s next pedo hasn't stopped whacking off to his Broitzman pics yet. So he's decided to champion her cause. Maybe in Whacko Willy World that means he'll get some action after the trial.

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 30 2009,8:01 pm

^That's called "projection". You possess these weird thoughts, then project them onto me in an attempt to shield your true perversion. I'm seldom fooled big guy. I have a degree in psychology.

I don't have any feeling of the Broitzman family one way or the other...other than I know his teen daughter liked to party a tad. Nothing really strange about that. Every friend I ever knew who had a teen daughter did the same thing. It was uncanny though at how they could tell their daughter was lying to them about it. I would've had no idea.

Posted by Paul Harvey on May 31 2009,12:39 am

You Know, this is VERY telling...watch

QUOTE

The interview began just after 4:30 p.m. that day, and Broitzman made no attempt to leave, the detective said. She was the second-to-last interview, of what had turned into two days of longer-than-scheduled interviews.

While Flatness escorted her to a conference room in the Law Enforcement Center, the detective explained that the questioning was voluntary, asked the young woman about her age and asked if a parent was going to come in with her, Flatness said.

Before Broitzman had been co-defendant Ashton Larson, who like Broitzman now faces at least 10 charges related to alleged abuse at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea, and following her was Stephanie Sipple, the young woman who first alleged the abuse, the detective said.

Sitting in the conference room toward the back of the Law Enforcement Center, Broitzman said she thought the questioning was going to be regarding an incident that happened a few days earlier with Sipple, who had been fired at the nursing home, Flatness testified. But the young woman soon found out otherwise.

Initially she was polite and talkative, said Freeborn County Sheriff’s Office investigator Bob Kindler, who also interviewed Broitzman on May 6. The young woman didn’t display any type of fear or resentment for being there.

Flatness talked about resident after resident, asking Broitzman to share information about each.

At first the young woman denied any involvement whatsoever with the alleged abuse or seeing anything take place, Flatness said, but throughout the interview there were intermitted changes to her story.

“She repeatedly changed what she said throughout the interview,” the detective said on the witness stand. “It was clear she was not being entirely honest because of the changes she had made to her statement.”

Broitzman also exhibited physiological changes that are sometimes indicative of lying, Kindler testified.

Her neck reddened and she coughed at certain times.

After what was described in court Friday as a long “monologue” in the interview, where Kindler said he stressed the importance of being honest, Broitzman’s demeanor slowly began to change.

And during the latter part of the interview, she even got tearful.

“I think she realized we had information and she was being implicated,” Flatness said.

[B]This tells the story of someone who is more innocent than guilty. "The young woman didn’t display any type of fear or resentment for being there" Because she had a clear conscience. She became tearful when she learned this was all about her friends and the police turning it on her. A guilty party would not have behaved this openly and honestly.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Jun. 02 2009,8:43 am

Why even let this whacko get to you? Minnow is an old dead fish, he trolls into topics and leaves a stench that he considers an opinion. Just light more candles and take out the smelly garbage. I don't listen to garbage.

Posted by Wareagle11B on Jun. 02 2009,12:02 pm

(Paul Harvey @ May 30 2009,8:01 pm)

QUOTE

I'm seldom fooled big guy. I have a degree in psychology.

He's seldom fooled. :rofl:

He has a Degree in Psychology. :rofl:

You are made the fool more often then anyone in recent memory and a degree in Jailhouse Psychology is not an actual degree Willy B. Care to take whats behind door number 2?

Posted by Bo66y on Jun. 08 2009,6:56 pm

I'd like to know, if these 2 women charged as adults are so innocent, why did the four women charged as juveniles plead guilty? Is everyone that has stated these two women are involved wrong? lying? "just having fun?"

Sorry, I guess I'm a bit sarcastic today. I'm tired, and it galls me to watch the victims and their families go through a hell on earth, and then be treated as though THEY were the wrong doers.

I understand due process. It's slow and it's definitely not fair; especially to the victims. But I also know that when someone says they did this, this, and this, and then later says, Oh wait.........I didn't mean that; well, it's just strange to me. Why on earth would anyone admit to doing something wrong if they truly hadn't? They weren't being tortured, had a gun held to their heads or threatened with any other bodily harm. If you are truly innocent, you wouldn't change your story...ever. It would always be the same.

I give credit to those who stood up and reported this horrendous situation. It was late in coming, and I wish they had done it when they first knew about it. It would have saved so much agony for the victims. But at least they did finally come forward.

I give credit to those who pleaded guilty. They have begun to understand their wrong doing, and hopefully have remorse. They are beginning to realize that there are consequences for the crime they committed.

I definitely give credit to Families Against Nursing Home Abuse of Albert Lea. These people are phenomenal. They have come together to get through this hell together. They are working so hard to make, change, and enforce laws that will protect the PEOPLE in nursing homes, not the nursing home interests. They are working in connection with renowned experts in the field of elder abuse and elder care, to produce the most comprehensive training program in the United States for just this situation. And through all of this, they are willing to take any phone call from any person in the US who is in need of support, information, or just a shoulder to cry on, because they too, are going through a hell of their own.

As for me.........I can only hope that someday I can do as much for another person, as these people are doing for one another, and any one else they come in contact with.

Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 09 2009,11:42 am

Received this email from A Perfect Cause (Wes Bledsoe) late yesterday. Here is the portion pertaining to Albert Lea.

QUOTE

Albert Lea, Minnesota

More news… State Attorney for Freeborn County, MN Craig Nelson advised us that ALL four of the CNAs charged as juveniles in the Good Samaritan Society – Albert Lea cases have plead GUILTY!

I sat in on the first 2/3’s of the Broitzman omnibus (pretrial) hearing. What an eye opener!

Once again, law enforcement did a poor job in their investigation. Again, not a single victim was interviewed. None of the victims were examined… expect by the nursing home’s personnel… and of the 11 witnesses produced by the nursing home’s administrator… only one was interviewed more than once.

So management met with the detective on Sunday evening…. Then the detective interviewed five people the following day… then asked one of the five back on Tuesday… where six more witnesses were interviewed.

And that appears to be the extent of the investigation.

Our families in Albert Lea have formed a group… which in part is working as our Education Team… to help us produce a training program for law enforcement and prosecutors.

We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to these families… for stepping up to the plate!

Posted by Bo66y on Jun. 22 2009,6:10 pm

If you haven't already read it.....check out just_1_more 's Over One Year topic.

You gotta' give these people some huge credit for what they are trying to accomplish.

Maddog, I know you be helpin' them out. So kudos to you, too.

Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 22 2009,6:42 pm

(Bo66y @ Jun. 22 2009,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

If you haven't already read it.....check out just_1_more 's Over One Year topic.

I'll help by putting the link to the topic here.

< Over One Year >

Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,10:45 pm

QUOTE

Witness: Broitzman’s statements inconsistent

< comments >

Not a comment in the Tribune since 5:00. Seems strange?

Wonder if the paper can set up their comments to have to filter through a mod before they are posted?

Posted by Bo66y on Jun. 25 2009,11:06 pm

gettin' harder and harder to get people to care.

Not sure if it's cuz they think the perpetrators will get off, or if they really are that indifferent.

Posted by Paul Harvey on Jun. 25 2009,11:13 pm

Maybe it's because people are really getting sick of ignorant comments like " the perpetrators" when it's actually the alleged perpetrators. It's ignorance and bias like this that turns people off.

Life is hard enough as it is without instigators like you nipping at heels and poking sticks.

Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 25 2009,11:18 pm

(Paul Harvey @ Jun. 25 2009,11:13 pm)

QUOTE

Never speak down to your listeners or insult their intelligence. Life is hard enough as it is without instigators like you nipping at heels and poking sticks.

Did you just say that? :rofl:

Posted by Common Citizen on Jun. 26 2009,7:02 am

^ hehe

Posted by MADDOG on Jun. 26 2009,11:58 am

QUOTE

< John orders gag on media >

Freeborn County District Court Judge Steve Schwab on Thursday approved a protective order that restricts access to the names of the alleged abuse victims at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea in court files. He admonished media and other parties from releasing any victims’ names outside of the courtroom that come up in active court.

While there’s the public’s right to know, Schwab said, the victims and their families need to be remembered.

The order could be challenged under the terms of the First Amendment.

Posted by Bo66y on Jun. 26 2009,6:45 pm

Oh yeah, that's right. Sorry for my misspeaking......alleged perpetrators.
I have a question for you Paul Harvey..... how come you won't answer that last question from just_1_more in the topic Over One Year? He/she asked if you would help to protect the elderly. Do you have that in you?
I stand by my earlier post on June 8 in this topic. Those folks are incredible. You might take a lesson from them.
As for "instigators like you nipping at heels and poking sticks.", that's the pot calling the kettle.......

Posted by Paul Harvey on Jun. 26 2009,7:01 pm

Who wouldn't protect the elderly you dumb-ass? You can't be this stupid.

When you say "get people" to act a certain way, you're talking about manipulation. Manipulating peoples thoughts and actions. That's what this is about and you admitted it.

Posted by Bo66y on Jun. 27 2009,1:54 am

As to "who wouldn't protect the elderly....."; "getting" laws enacted and enforced to protect the elderly and not just their money; "getting" nursing homes to enforce policy and procedure in their own facilities, as well as "getting" laws passed that will enforce punishments to fit the crimes, and "getting" the safety of the elderly as first priority is unbelievably hard, and so far, almost impossible.

"Dumb-a$$.....stupid"......I asked you if you could and would answer a question asked by someone else. Didn't think that was a reason for name calling.

Asking or talking to people in order to bring about awareness, or "getting" them to care, about something that will effect each and every one of them, including you, sometime in the future is not manipulation. It's trying to educate, and gather support for a job that is of monumental proportions and has been ignored for about 50 years to long.

If you do support this group's efforts, great. If you don't, that's ok, too. No one would want you to do anything you didn't believe in.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 24 2009,11:24 am

In what could possibly be seen as a turn of events in the Broitzman case, the < Judge denies request to suppress Broitzman's statements in elder abuse case. >

This could be seen as the horse drinking the water.

With Broitzman's own testimony being admissible, how could she not be found guilty?

Posted by Paul Harvey on Aug. 24 2009,11:30 am

Because she has a dozen charges and even with her admissions it can't justify all the charges. Police ask you to talk, you say no. They didn't even bother to ask me to talk...that is, if I ever did anything wrong. :blush:

Hung by her own words AND still has to pay her lawyer! She's hung. Just like with Clintons dress, she's hung...

Posted by Alfy Packer on Aug. 24 2009,4:06 pm

There is amoral and there is immoral. This story keeps crossing over these two different concepts. I'm frightened that this young lady did immoral acts being basically amoral. The problem with her statement is that she didn't have a clue that her actions were wrong. Compounding the matter is that some of the people who are commenting on this matter suffer from the same issue.

Posted by pantalonesverdes on Aug. 24 2009,4:14 pm

(Paul Harvey @ Aug. 24 2009,11:30 am)

QUOTE

Hung by her own words AND still has to pay her lawyer! She's hung. Just like with Clintons dress, she's hung...

I can't imagine what that lawyer bill will be.

Posted by Paul Harvey on Aug. 24 2009,9:55 pm

At least $10,000. And check out this!

QUOTE

The defense also argued that the second statement given to Minnesota Department of Health Investigator Jolene Bertelsen on May 15, 2008, be suppressed as “fruit of the poisonous tree,” but Schwab also dismissed this.

He said this interview was a “civil investigation conducted independently of the criminal investigation. (Broitzman’s) lawyer was present during the entire interview and it was conducted in her attorney’s office.”

Because he ruled that the statements obtained on May 6, 2008, were voluntary and were not the result of custodial interrogation, the statements the next week were not tainted either, he stated.

I wouldn't pay him. Her attorney that is. Get this, they are using a statement against her, a statement her attorney set up and allowed. She shouldn't have been talking to anyone and if they wanted testimony in a civil case her lawyer should've made a deal of some kind in her criminal case or she doesn't talk. She has a case against her lawyer for ineffective and defective counsel.

Let me attempt to explain the deal here. If the police come up to you and "wanna talk" anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, even without a Miranda warning. But, if you are arrested and read your rights, anything you say can't be used against you if you tell them you want a lawyer and don't want to talk. Often, even when defendants DO talk in these instances the testimony is not admitted because they are in "custody" and can't leave. Get it? But, if you don't willingly talk to police they try to turn that against you. So this is how you handle it. Tell them you're more then willing to share information with them if they submit their questions in writing. This eliminates any fudging later in an oral report...the he said, she said crap like what we see here. They ask you in writing, you respond in writing and no one can make up anything to bolster their side. Are ya with me?

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Aug. 28 2009,4:21 pm

According to the Trib, Broitzman has entered a "Not Guilty" plea, thus meaning she will be headed to pre-trial and trial, which should take about two weeks.

Now my question (not to make light of a very serious situation, but to point out the humor that is there)....will it take two weeks to set up the pre trial...will the whole thing take two weeks, or are they expecting two weeks for both??? :dunno:

Anyway, here is the link for those who want to know:

< http://www.albertleatribune.com/news....charges >

Posted by Paul Harvey on Aug. 28 2009,4:30 pm

Oh brother, I can't believe you have the stones to call me stupid.

QUOTE

headed to pre-trial and trial, which should take about two weeks.

Really? a pre-trial and trial all completed in two weeks?

:rofl:

Hey, she just got pregnant, she'll be having the baby next week. I like your time tables. :beer:

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 28 2009,4:40 pm

I can safely say that a speedy trial will likely be waived.

Obviously, because they "know" someone in the local judicial system, there's no worry about being incarcerated. They have been walking the streets, not as criminals, but free spirits. This whole time, the families of the victims have had to see these two walk freely.

The families of the victims have been going to all the proceedings to show support of their family member who were so disgracefully abused. I comment all of them.

This digs up old comments, but if these two were men, we know where they would have been.

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Aug. 28 2009,4:46 pm

(Paul Harvey @ Aug. 28 2009,4:30 pm)

QUOTE

Oh brother, I can't believe you have the stones to call me stupid.

QUOTE

headed to pre-trial and trial, which should take about two weeks.

Really? a pre-trial and trial all completed in two weeks?

:rofl:

Hey, she just got pregnant, she'll be having the baby next week. I like your time tables. :beer:

Don't throw stones at me...was just paraphrasing what I read from the Trib. You have issues with it, don't attack me, attack the Trib under your other pseudonyms.

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2009,12:24 am

QUOTE

I can safely say that a speedy trial will likely be waived.

It's too bad the victims in this case aren't able to exercise their right to a speedy trial. I wonder if a family could on their behalf? One of the Crime Victims Rights is to request a speedy trial.

My stbx's case took 10 1/2 months to get to trial. He never waived his right to a speedy trial, he requested one three times because he fired his first & second lawyers a few days before jury trial.

QUOTE

Obviously, because they "know" someone in the local judicial system, there's no worry about being incarcerated. They have been walking the streets, not as criminals, but free spirits. This whole time, the families of the victims have had to see these two walk freely.

Yep...my children & I understand what that's like. From the day my stbx was released until sentencing took a little over 6 months. He was able to do whatever he wanted for another 3 months after sentencing. Then they put as much of a kabosh on that as they could, he got angry & violated his probation & the OFP. He faces more charges again, 2 felonies, and is still a "free spirit."

QUOTE

The families of the victims have been going to all the proceedings to show support of their family member who were so disgracefully abused. I comment all of them.

That's awesome! There is strength in numbers & I hope they use their voices on behalf of their family member because they have the RIGHT to be heard by the court!

QUOTE

his digs up old comments, but if these two were men, we know where they would have been.

I wish I could see it as an "all or nothing" belief, but I can't. In my children's & my situation the "man" has not been sent to the cleaners as so many might believe would automatically happen just because he's the male. By no means am I stating this might not be a factor in the Good Sam case tho because it very well could be.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 06 2009,5:01 pm

Sometimes the < censorship > at the Tribune is unbelievable.

QUOTE

Posted by dancrue (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Evan not there, or show up late for court... What a shock! NOT!

Posted by bigbear (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 9:53 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

All the second comment said was to the effect of they hoped they go to jail soon..and..whatever the outcome, the families have to live with it.

:dunno:

Posted by Paul Harvey on Sep. 07 2009,8:08 am

I can safely say that a speedy trial will likely be waived.--->What do you mean "safely say". You're simply guessing because your too dumb to understand that the speedy trial was waved many moons ago.

Obviously, because they "know" someone in the local judicial system, there's no worry about being incarcerate---->really, your fantasies are that real too you? So real they are obvious too you? :laugh:

Who would they know and how would that person keep them out of jail. Face it Maddog, your just making up fantasies in your head now.

They have been walking the streets, not as criminals, but free spirits. ----->They aren't criminals until convicted just like you'd be if you were in their shoes...anyone!

This whole time, the families of the victims have had to see these two walk freely.----->Well they shouldn't have to see that! Everyone ever charged should be in jail with no trial, no recourse no nothing! No need for trials since everyone charged is obviously guilty.

The families of the victims have been going to all the proceedings to show support of their family member who were so disgracefully abused. I comment all of them.----->What if the accused are found innocent at trial. Who will they blame them...the facility?

This digs up old comments, but if these two were men, we know where they would have been. ----Yes I know you people love to discriminate and I'm glad you just admitted it for the world. :clap:

You KNOW your people well. You KNOW they would discriminate. You know these people as well as yourself. Because your one.

Posted by Paul Harvey on Sep. 07 2009,8:12 am

I like your reasoning here. Hey, we'd discriminate like dumb pigs of they were male!

---->SO...let's not..NOT discriminate because they are female!

Freakin brilliant MD.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 29 2009,2:46 pm

Today is the second Contested Omnibus Hearing of Ashton Larson at 3:30. The paper perhaps is tired of publishing the news on this... :dunno:

My understanding is that Nelson will introduce some new evidence and the charges have been amended.

Please give your thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families. They need to know they have support as this case goes on and on.

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Sep. 29 2009,7:21 pm

Do we have any word yet as to what went on today, or are we going to have to wait until tomorrow to hear the news??? Or in the case of the Trib...wait until....

Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 22 2010,9:35 pm

OLD THREAD note date before this post.

I find it strange no one resurrected this one already. The Tribune had an article today that got buried in old, old news fast. if you're looking for it, here it is.

QUOTE

Ashton Larson's lawyer requests change of venue
Judge to issue written order about his decision

< story >

It's no surprise that the change of venue was requested. Can they at least place this trial in the same location as Broitzman's?

QUOTE

Freeborn County District Court Judge Steve Schwab said normally he wants defendants to be in attendance when issues of the case are being discussed, but he did not want more delays and agreed to hear the request.

Ouhh, tough guy huh? Isn't an appearance required? Could he have held her in contempt for missing?

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Jul. 22 2010,10:32 pm

Yeah, but the lawyer said she had sprained her ankle and then couldn't make it.

I personally liked the whinning that Nelson did about trying to figure out which trial is more important...

Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,11:45 pm

I'm not sure if Judge Schwab could have held her in contempt since the hearing wasn't a mandate of her as a defendant to attend and instead was a request by the defense for a change in procedure. :dunno:

Judge Schwab could have entertained the right she has as a defendant to be present at the hearing and rescheduled.

I think he made a wise choice to move forward rather than entertaining another delay in this case.

Posted by busybee on Jul. 22 2010,11:55 pm

QUOTE

I personally liked the whinning that Nelson did about trying to figure out which trial is more important...

I thought Nelson was trying to figure out which one will make it trial first so he could prepare.

Seemed like it was pointless for Nelson to wonder or complain because the Judge hasn't made his decision on this case's change of venue yet. Further, if the Judge decides on a change in venue, when the trial would be set is dependent on their court's availability.

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Jul. 23 2010,11:10 am

^^^ exactly the point I was trying to make!

The reference to whining was more a reflection of the writing done, not so much actions. Confused and befuddled would be expected, but as you pointed out...he shouldn't have stressed about it as the whole point of the proceedings were to figure out if the case is going to be moved.

Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 28 2010,1:41 pm

Change of Venue

QUOTE

Freeborn County District Court Judge Steve Schwab on Tuesday approved a change of venue request in the upcoming jury trial for Ashton Larson.
Larson is one of two young women charged as an adult with alleged abuse of residents at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea.
In June, Schwab approved a change of venue for co-defendant Brianna Broitzman. Broitzman’s trial will begin Aug. 23 in Olmsted County.
Larson’s trial date and location have not yet been determined.

Schwab said the case could not receive a fair trial in Freeborn County or the nearby counties of Faribault, Waseca, Steele or Mower counties. < sock puppet paper >

Might as well get this over here. I don't 'recon there will be much for comments any place else.

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Jul. 28 2010,4:37 pm

^^^ hehee

I have been lurking over at the Trib, and what do you know?? That article hasn't been touched yet. I don't expect anyone TO touch it...but the yaysayers of the new Trib have been out in force... :laugh:

Posted by jazzy jeff on Jul. 28 2010,5:51 pm

I don't believe a change in venue will be any different than if the case was held here. The case received national attention. Ya think they don't know what happened 50 miles away??

Posted by scorenix on Jul. 28 2010,8:35 pm

(jazzy jeff @ Jul. 28 2010,5:51 pm)

QUOTE

I don't believe a change in venue will be any different than if the case was held here. The case received national attention. Ya think they don't know what happened 50 miles away??

No, I don't think they know what happened 50 miles away. I made a comment to a few that the trial was moving to Rochester and they had never heard of it. So I think getting a jury who has not heard of it will be easier than you think.

Posted by jazzy jeff on Jul. 29 2010,2:20 pm

That could be the case. Rochester and surrounding is 150,000 pop.

Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 29 2010,4:02 pm

Around North Iowa, everyone I mention it to knows about it. The biggest thing I hear is either "What ever happened to those two girls." or "They got sent to prison, didn't they?"

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 14 2010,7:05 am

Hey, it's time to keep this on towards the top now. Reckoning Day is shortly coming.

Brianna's pre-trial hearing begins Monday August 16th at 8:30 at the Freeborn County Government Center, second floor.

The pre-trial hearing will be to make sure everything is in line for the trial to begin and allow any new motions to be brought up. Let's hope there are no further delays.

Jury selection is scheduled to begin at 9:00am, Olmsted Co. Courthouse, 151 SE 4th St., Rochester, MN, 5th Floor

They believe jury selection may only take one day.

If you are a available, let's be present at the courthouse and give support to the families and victims this Monday. It's going to be difficult for these families.

SHOW YOUR SUPPORT!

I wish I could be there guys!

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Aug. 14 2010,9:59 am

Has anyone heard when Ashton's was moved to, or where? Aside from Schwab saying he would grant it, I haven't heard anymore. I guess with the new format, there isn't any space to do so...but still...it would be nice to know when and where she is going to be?

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 14 2010,10:15 am

This directly from FANHA.

QUOTE

Ashton Larson
As you know, Ashton Larson was granted a change of venue. However, the county and date for the trial to begin are not yet known. It is possible (according to Prosecutor's office) that the Judge and court administration is waiting for the Broitzman trial to be over before making definite times and places. We will be informed when definites are in place.

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Aug. 14 2010,12:20 pm

(MADDOG @ Aug. 14 2010,10:15 am)

QUOTE

This directly from FANHA.

Thanks for the info...and it makes sense. My question is more along the lines of who is this group you talk about? I have never heard of them, and what is their link? Are they likely to keep a good coverage of Brianna's court case??

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 14 2010,2:17 pm

FANHA was founded by families directly affected by these girls in hopes of changing how reporting is done and support for those affected. FANHA is partnered with < A Perfect Cause >, which focuses on long term care reform and abuse reporting. Wes Bledsoe, founder of A Perfect Cause came to Albert Lea in the wake of the abuse charges. Twice in fact. He spoke at the old Albert Lea Inn and brought with him a wealth of information and trained professionals who also spoke to those affected and interested. This is where I met several of the families of those elder people abused.

I do not necessarily give these girls the benefit of using the term "accused." It would be extremely difficult after being present at these meetings and talking with families involved. The law of the land may give them the benefit of being innocent until guilty, but I would have a problem giving them those graces.

The only innocence I would give them is to what degree their guilt is. Punishment can only be partial because our state laws are not yet wrote to punish people who would do such low, vile things to our venerable adults. Perhaps because no one could possibly dream that anyone could humanly do such things.

These families who founded the FANHA are working with state legislators to change this. Many have since lost their loved ones. I could not have held back like these families have had to. They have had the patience of Job through all of this and need our support now more than ever.

Please show them your support.

Posted by busybee on Aug. 14 2010,5:12 pm

MADDOG...I applaud your support against this type of abuse and continuing to keep people on here informed!!!

I also think it's awesome that you encourage people to be present at the trial in support of the victims and families.

What people forget or maybe don't know is a crime like this isn't considered to be a crime charged and committed against mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, spouse, child, best friend, ect...

This is considered to be a crime that has been charged and committed against the State of MN based upon breaking a MN law.

Therefore, the more voices and support for these victims, the greater the chance that if the accused are found guilty, the sentencing will also be reflective of the crimes committed against the people harmed, instead of just the State of MN.

Posted by gijoeman on Aug. 14 2010,5:29 pm

Maddog is openly admitting after hearing from victims first hand he cannot be impartial. Understandable, but this is not how you determine guilt or innocence.

Secondly Maddogs ideas hurt old people and here's how. He wants to make it a special sort of crime punishable by even harder terms. This makes it so employees can face murder type sentences ovr accustaions and facilities will have to insure against such things. In short Maddog wants to add thousands of dollars in costs to care and this hurts those who already can't afford care.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 14 2010,6:35 pm

QUOTE

Maddog is openly admitting after hearing from victims first hand he cannot be impartial.

By listening to the victim's families and reading transcripts is how I came to be unable to be impartial.

QUOTE

He wants to make it a special sort of crime punishable by even harder terms.

I would love laws be ramped up to more severe penalties for those who would molest defenseless elderly.

QUOTE

facilities will have to insure against such things.

Gee, that's a no brainer.

QUOTE

In short Maddog wants to add thousands of dollars in costs to care and this hurts those who already can't afford care.

I'm not sure how this will add thousands of dollars in care considering this is already a requirement. I guess if a health facility feels it need to raise the cost of care in case someone hurts a resident, they must already not be doing what the laws require. So, in short, would be admitting prematurely their guilt.

May this never happen to your father. It would certainly distroy his will of life.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 14 2010,6:51 pm

One thing I must point out is the ChamberWrap in all of this. Look what day and time it is. They have still not produced any mention of this.

Perhaps it's the intention of the paper to fail to make the public aware of the pre-trial until after it has taken place to avoid any controversy or reader's comments, let alone people filling the courtroom.

Brianna's pre-trial hearing begins Monday August 16th at 8:30 at the Freeborn County Government Center, second floor.

Posted by busybee on Aug. 15 2010,2:35 am

gijoeman...Posted on Aug. 14 2010,5:29 pm

QUOTE

Maddog is openly admitting after hearing from victims first hand he cannot be impartial. Understandable, but this is not how you determine guilt or innocence.

Of course it's not how guilt or innocence is determined...LEGALLY.

That is the "specified" job of prosecutors, defense attorneys, Judges, witnesses and if no plea bargain is willingly entered into by an accused, it also then becomes the job of specifically selected people (peers) for a jury trial.

The remainder of people are not REQUIRED to be impartial or assume an accused is innocent until their guilt of a crime (s) is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

QUOTE

Secondly Maddogs ideas hurt old people and here's how. He wants to make it a special sort of crime punishable by even harder terms. This makes it so employees can face murder type sentences ovr accustaions and facilities will have to insure against such things. In short Maddog wants to add thousands of dollars in costs to care and this hurts those who already can't afford care.

Do you most often believe that people who are charged with a crime (s) against another person (s) is being "set up" and/or "wrongfully accused?"

I ask for clarification on this because it seems like you believe people who are charged or convicted of an illegal drug crime are getting the shaft in one way or another and it's never fair because there shouldn't be any laws against illegal drugs in the first place.

I'm not stating that what is done with illegal drug crime offenders/accused/convicted and sentenced is fair or right...I just don't think that crimes with real victims will ever compare to the falsely implied victims of society who are supposedly in danger and in need of protection, stricter laws, asset seizure, and harsher sentences because of illegal drug crimes.

I guess what I'm trying to explain is real victims of real crimes don't have it much easier than a person facing charges of an illegal drug crime.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 15 2010,7:50 am

This hurt has gone on for a long time for these families. Here's a little < refresher > pm how long ago.

This picture is for GIJOEMAN?

Posted by peachtart on Aug. 16 2010,11:58 am

Brianna Broitzman this morning has pleaded guilty to three counts of disorderly conduct by a caregiver.

The counts are all gross misdemeanors.

She entered an Alford plea in Freeborn County District Court. An Alford plea assert innocence but admits the prosecution has enough evidence to convict, usually for more severe charges.

Broitzman, 21, is one of six young women who faces charges of abuse of residents at Good Samaritan Society of Albert Lea from January through May 2008. She and co-defendant Ashton Michelle Larson have been charged as adults.

Four others have been charged as juveniles because they were under 18 at the time of the alleged abuse.

Broitzman’s jury trial was scheduled to begin Aug. 23 in Olmsted County. However, her plea of guilty cancels that.

Broitzman and her lawyer gathered this morning in Freeborn County Attorney Craig Nelson’s office for a meeting, then later the plea was entered in Freeborn County District Court.

News is developing and will be posted as it comes.

Email Print Comments

Posted by ControlledHyperness on Aug. 16 2010,11:59 am

wonder what the plea deal was....

< She's Guilty?!? >

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 16 2010,3:39 pm

QUOTE

wonder what the plea deal was...

QUOTE

In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge. < alford plea >

Which seems to be more of a slap in the face of the victims and families, but it's almost over.

One reason for making such a plea may be to avoid being convicted on a more serious charge. Acceptance of an Alford plea is in the court's discretion.

Posted by ConTribuTor on Aug. 16 2010,3:47 pm

< http://www.kimt.com/content...dg.cspx >

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 16 2010,8:22 pm

QUOTE

Four of those counts — including three counts of disorderly conduct by a caregiver and one count of mandated failure to report — were added Friday.

All counts, except for the mandated failure to report charges, are gross misdemeanors. Mandated failure to report is a misdemeanor.

Maus said Broitzman is pleading guilty to three counts of disorderly conduct by a caregiver in exchange for the remainder of the charges to be dismissed. Any future criminal charges will also not be able to be filed.

Maus said Broitzman recognizes evidence the Freeborn County Attorney’s Office could have used at her trial, including an incriminating statement to police in May 2008 and the testimony of some of the other prosecutor’s witnesses.

“There is indeed a high probability of conviction,” Maus said.

Under the agreement, Broitzman will be on probation for two years. Jail time and fines will be left up to the discretion of Freeborn County District Court Judge Steve Schwab.

Does this make it look like these new charges were filed as a way for Broitzman to plead out?

What sort of discretion could he (Schwab) possibly have?

Posted by canvasback on Aug. 16 2010,10:38 pm

Couldn't help but noticing this...there was a time in the not so distant past, that the Tribune story about this would have had dozens of comments. As of this posting, exactly one. Sorry, different thread I know.. :deadhorse:

Posted by gijoeman on Aug. 17 2010,2:43 am

All the charges were essentially dropped and three new ones were added that she pled guilty to. "Disorderly conduct". It's like she got a little rowdy while out drankin' or sumptin'. :blush:

Posted by Santorini on Aug. 17 2010,8:29 am

Saw the story on KIMT 5:00 news. Couldn't believe what I was hearing :crazy:

Now we know the other one is going to plead out too. I agree with the one who wrote this is a slap in the face of the victims families.
To me this is a real injustice to ALL vulnerable persons everywhere. Where is THEIR protection under the law :hairpull:

Posted by grassman on Aug. 17 2010,8:48 am

Another version of the old bait and switch. What way to manipulate a situation. :lalala:

Posted by amyzone on Aug. 17 2010,10:06 am

I know now many of you feel about the Tribune but if you had bothered to actually read it you would have saved yourselves the trouble of getting all uptight for the victims families sakes. Now I can't speak for all of them but this was said.

QUOTE

“We’re very glad that we did get a plea of guilty,” said Jan Reshetar, a family member of one of the victims. “It’s something that we’ve needed for a long time.”

[QUOTE]“We’ll leave it in the capable hands of the court,” Reshetar said. “We’ll be glad when it’s over.”[QUOTE]

By the way... I have a loved one with dementia that lives at St. Johns. I thank God everyday for those people that take such good care of him. And I would gladly rip apart anyone that would hurt him, but that being said, don't you think it is time to let the justice system do its job. Whether you agree or not, it is the only one we've got!!
:soapbox:

Posted by Two Bears on Aug. 17 2010,10:20 am

Does schwab the judge have a public email address?

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 17 2010,11:18 am

I think the closest I can get you is Kristine at Court Services. 507-377-5163.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 17 2010,5:19 pm

from another thread:

gijoeman

QUOTE

^Would you rather have them go to trial and perhaps walk away scott free? Isn't being assured of a little something is better then not being assured of anything.

Yes it is. My boss from years ago always said, "A little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing." I hope the families of the victims are OK with this. At least there is some relief that part of it is over.

That being said, you should re-read the arcticles. Her attorney expected at least some guilty verdicts.

Check out what an Alford Plea is again. I don't think the walking away was going to happen. An Alford plea is used when a person might have been intoxicated beyond memory or to excape possible harsher charges.

QUOTE

In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge. The court will pronounce the defendant guilty. The defendant may plead guilty yet not admit all the facts that comprise the crime. An Alford plea allows defendant to plead guilty even while unable or unwilling to admit guilt. One example is a situation where the defendant has no recollection of the pertinent events due to intoxication or amnesia. A defendant making an Alford plea maintains his innocence of the offense charged. One reason for making such a plea may be to avoid being convicted on a more serious charge. Acceptance of an Alford plea is in the court's discretion.

In other words, Nelson was part of a plea bargain again.

Posted by hairhertz on Aug. 17 2010,6:25 pm

so can these "ladies" now get nursing degrees with only misdomeanors?

Posted by busybee on Aug. 18 2010,12:49 am

MADDOG ... Posted on Aug. 16 2010,3:39 pm

QUOTE

In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge.

Which seems to be more of a slap in the face of the victims and families, but it's almost over.

I think how people feel about it, whether it's a victim, family member, friend, citizen, ect...depends upon one's perception of what "justice" means.

The person who harmed my children and I pleaded with the Alford Plea.

I didn't see this as justice because one of the charges dismissed was a felony violation of an OFP with a deadly weapon in exchange for a reduced charge of a different felony. As far as I was concerned, the potential lethality (death) that the Defendant threatened with the gun trumped everything, especially because our child was present and witness to this violent crime also.

I'm glad to hear family members were present while the plea bargaining was happening.

In my children's and my situation, we met with prosecution for about 30 minutes the day before we were to give testimony at trial. The two children, two other witnesses and I were instructed to wait until we were called after the jury selection was completed the following day. After a few hours of jury selection, the Defendant waived the right to a jury trial and wanted a trial with the Judge. After the Defendant was told how that process would work, the Defendant decided to plea bargain.

It's never supposed to happen this way, victims have the right to know about a plea bargain before it is entered into according to the victim rights law.

QUOTE

One reason for making such a plea may be to avoid being convicted on a more serious charge. Acceptance of an Alford plea is in the court's discretion.

An Alford Plea being accepted by the court is in my opinion a gift and opportunity for a guilty Defendant with victims to prove themselves worthy of living in society without being a risk of harm to others.

Typically the court grants probation and a stayed sentence (no incarceration) and reduces fines significantly. The incarceration is "held" over the Defendant's head and only used if the Defendant violates (usually it has to be more than once) their probation conditions and terms of release.

If a Defendant follows their probation conditions the possibility of having the crime expunged, if applicable can be done at a later time.

If a Defendant does not comply with their probation conditions and does not take the opportunity given to them seriously, execution of their stayed sentence (the incarceration time held over their head) and the conviction for the crime (s) is officially entered (as what would have if the Defendant had went to trial and was found guilty by a jury.)

I could be way off on some of what I believe to know about this Alford Plea stuff, I try my best, so if anyone can help me learn more or see a mistake in my thoughts about it, please share.

Posted by busybee on Aug. 18 2010,1:19 am

hairhertz...Posted on Aug. 17 2010,6:25 pm

QUOTE

so can these "ladies" now get nursing degrees with only misdomeanors?

Misdemeanor's show up on criminal history. I suspect it would depend upon the college they attend and if they check criminal history. Even so, I doubt they could deny them the right to pursue earning a nursing degree or any other degree.

The next step would be to get past the health care facilities hiring policy. I would hope all health care facilities do criminal back ground checks.

The fact is though, if these ladies complete their probation successfully, as far as I know, there won't be anything stopping them from leading a normal life without future judgment for what happened at Good Sam.

Posted by allergic to bogus on Aug. 22 2010,10:45 pm

Generally, if one gets an assault charge, that is grounds for termination in Mn. care facilities.

Posted by busybee on Aug. 31 2010,2:13 am

A2B...assault charges are not the same as a plea bargain to disorderly conduct.

Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 22 2010,3:01 pm

Was she given enough? Has there been vindication? I guess that's up to the individual families.

< Broitzman gets 180 >

Posted by bianca on Oct. 23 2010,6:02 pm

hairhertz- Chances are they will never get to the school part to be a nursing student as all nursing schools always do background checks before you're allowed in nursing school. In fact, most schools now are now doing National background checks where before they did just the state you were in/from.

I'm totally disgusted about this sentencing, if a man would've committed these crimes he would've been hung out to dry. She IS a sex offender in my book and should've had to register as such. They did disgusting acts to these people. She never showed remorse until she found out her time had come to pay the price.

What irritates me the most I think is that there's a chance these girls could only do 60 days.

My fiance's step-mother had a mother that was one of their victims, it's just terrible that they trusted these people to care for them and this is what happened. Hopefully once the civil suit is over these girls might be paying for the rest of their lives, financially, anyways.

Posted by busybee on Oct. 23 2010,8:39 pm

MADDOG · Posted on Oct. 22 2010,3:01 pm

QUOTE

Was she given enough? Has there been vindication? I guess that's up to the individual families.

The victims family members HAVE HAD NO SAY and NO CHOICE in anything about the criminal proceedings, from start to finish.

Further, when it comes to the criminal process in the U.S. and victim's rights...there isn't any difference between an elderly person with Alzheimer's and an elderly person with full cognitive and memory recall capabilities to report and give a statement to law enforcement.

Every crime victim or witness to a crime has the right to REPORT it to law enforcement. What happens after that is completely and 100% out of their control and absent of their input.