Albert Lea Discussion Forum » Printable Version of Topic » Updates On Good Samaritan Abuse charges

Forum: Current Events
Topic: Updates On Good Samaritan Abuse charges
started by: cheeba

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 28 2008,1:56 pm

Watch the news tonight for updates regarding the abuse at Good Samaritan Center in Albert Lea from back in April/May.

QUOTE

BREAKING NEWS: Report Released on Albert Lea Nursing Home Misconduct by Cristina Frank
KIMT News 3

ALBERT LEA, MN - The Minnesota Department of Public Health has released the results of its investigation into allegations of employee misconduct at the Good Samaritan nursing home in Albert Lea. The state began its investigation in May after receiving a complaint about possible misconduct by employees. KIMT news three has a copy of the report and we will share its results with you coming up in our news at four, five and six.

If you dont quite remember the story...

QUOTE

Good Samaritan Society Care Center Faces Allegation of Abuse

(KAAL)--- Some disturbing news tonight from a nursing home in our area.

When allegations of resident abuse surfaced, the Good Samaritan Society near Albert Lea started it's own internal investigation.

Now, that investigation has grown to include local law enforcement officers and the Minnesota Department of Health.

The care center says it has suspended any staff members identified as being possibly involved, pending the results of the investigation.

Good Samaritan officials declined to be interviewed on camera, but in a prepared statement they said they believe they have… "Contained any alleged abuse, and have notified the families who may have been subjected to disrespectful actions by staff members."

As part of the internal investigation, Good Samaritan says it has interviewed staff members and residents, and have conducted physical checks of residents and found no warning signs.

Good Samaritan says it has also held staff meetings and in-service training on vulnerable adults and on reporting questionable care practices.

Good Samaritan Center says resident safety is it's top priority, and that it has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to the abuse or disrespectful treatment of those residents.

From the things I have heard I really hope in this case "rumors are lies". The rumors of what kind of abuse has made me beyond angry.
RUMORS--
* Photos were taken of residents private parts. (Glad I found out this was a lie.)
* Feces was smeared in some of the residents faces Again glad this wasn't on the report.
* Photos of the girls "riding" the male residents with their clothes on
* They would grab their faces and tell them to "Shut the F*** up" This probably happened just not mention in report.

These things are beyond cruel. It just makes to freaking furious!
But on another note I believe Good Sam is handleing this matter to their best. I dont want the community to hate the Good Sam home... remember this is the doing of a few girls that once worked there not the whole facility. Its people like this that make a 20/20 episode and have the seniors scared of ever having to enter a nursing home.

Posted by Fighting Yeti on Aug. 28 2008,3:09 pm

< http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs....019.pdf >

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 28 2008,3:24 pm

Thanks! I have been trying to find that.
Wowo reading it on the report confirms some of the rumors. excuse me for a few minutes..... I need to go vomit!

Posted by Old Cracker on Aug. 28 2008,3:58 pm

I made it to page 7 of 14, then I had to go blow some chunks too.

Posted by bianca on Aug. 28 2008,4:27 pm

How deeply disturbing. What makes these NA's so vicious and cruel to want to do something so awful to someone who is not all there? :angry:

What cowards! IMO, They need some psychological help besides having to be registered,a slap on the wrist.

That's exactly the stuff that makes nursing homes so questionable......they are always understaffed so that the NA's are on their own.

Good NA's do God's work and love the residents they take care of. Unfortunately, not everyone is capable of taking care of combative or confused adults and they take the confused residents actions personal. Most of the time it seems like the ones who can't handle the job are the teenagers, that would rather hide from work and chat/laugh with each other on company time. The understaffed nurses are the ones that have to stop doing cares on patients to hunt these NA's down to make them do their jobs, it's like glorified babysitting for workers that know what they are supposed to be doing.

The nurses are told that they can send the aids home for the night if they are not doing their jobs, but if they are shortstaffed anyways, it causes big problems.

If the nursing homes would hire enough staff, maybe this wouldn't be such a problem. Those residents are paying a great deal of money each month to be there and they deserve to be treated well.

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Aug. 28 2008,4:57 pm

I am completely speechless. I have never heard of such blatant disregard for human dignity in my life.

Where are the nurses and other care staff during all this? How can such abuse occur with so many people by so many staff? I understand the short staffing, however, there are nurses that oversee these people.

Personally, I think the facility should be shut down. Would you want your mother or father or relative staying at a place like this? I wouldn’t even want my dog there.

I am trying to think of what would be an appropriate punishment for something like this. Public humiliation comes to mind. Where on earth did these people learn this crap from? Absolutely no morals or respect for life. I am soooo angry.

Posted by The Game on Aug. 28 2008,5:37 pm

If your that angry, why not call Craig Nelsons office and tell him to file the charges. I agree it is sickening and that report is just horrible, I feel for those that were abused. I am still in shock.

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 28 2008,6:25 pm

(ANTILIBERAL @ Aug. 28 2008,4:57 pm)

QUOTE

Personally, I think the facility should be shut down. Would you want your mother or father or relative staying at a place like this? I wouldn’t even want my dog there.

Again I need remind you this was the doing of the alleged perpetrators... Not the facility.
I personally working in the health care field would not work there but that is due to the administration not the place. I worked there about 11 years ago and did not like it. But there are some damn good people that work out there.
As soon as this was finally reported by the girl action was immediate by Good Sam. They are cooperating in full.
Sadly abuse happens and it is up to the people working with such individuals like this to report it.
But yes I do hope the families of these residents file charges to the fullest against these girls.

Posted by mncowgirl on Aug. 28 2008,6:33 pm

wow I know for sure when I get old I dont want to go to a retirement home I will contact the suicide guy and put me out before I have to deal with that kind of abuse! either that or I will hire a 400 lb body guard! :hairpull:

Posted by The Boss on Aug. 28 2008,6:50 pm

WOW , this is really "sad news." It makes me not want to grow old and have to go to a nursing home.

Posted by Old Cracker on Aug. 28 2008,7:18 pm

Oh no, I'm old as dirt! My kids will put me in Good Sam and take my money. Oh lord, please take me now.

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 28 2008,7:23 pm

This is horrifying, senseless, and should never have happened. GS needs to take some responsibility. They are the ones that hired these "girls".

I could never understand why nursing homes would hire young teens in the first place, or why there is no degree of any kind needed. Old people are not exactly held in high regard in our society, especially by young people. To hire them to care for the elderly AND THEN leave them alone with no supervision is asinine.

I am ashamed to admit that I worked there for a short time years ago while in transition of jobs. It was the most awful job I have ever had. Not because of the elderly, but for the way we were "trained in", which was 2 or 3 days of ... nothing. Lot's of paper work and discussions on the residents rights.

I quit before I found another job because I couldn't stomach working there. I doubt this is the first time things like this happened. The employees seem to have a need to cover for each other with just about everything that goes on there.

I say shame on GS for not training better. New NA's should be "with" a seasoned NA for a very long time before going on their own. There should also be some kind of standard training with a degree for these employees and not just babble from human resource.

This makes me so angry. I wish now I would have said something to someone about what I saw and heard, but to everyone else there .. it was "normal".

Posted by Newbie on Aug. 28 2008,7:28 pm

Good Points Spidey. I too think Good Sam should take responsibility for their part.

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 28 2008,9:53 pm

I have been a Certified Nursing for nearly 12 years. When I was 17 I had just quit as a Whopper Flopper at our local Burger King. My mom whom had worked as a CNA for many years talked me into coming to St Johns and try it. As most people at first the thought of doing that job "grossed me out". But I said I would give it a try. Well nearly 12 years later here I am still working in a nursing home. But looking back I know now I was quite immature for the job at that time but on another note this job helped me grow up. It helped me respect my elders. It has helped me overall be a better person.
I have tried a couple different nursing home before deciding I love working at St Johns the best.
My job is more mental than physical. Even though the job can physically be very challenging.... the thought process is much greater. You need to think about how to put the resident before the task. Learning a bit of the residents history on how they may like things. Alot of it is common sense. How would you like to be treated in this situation (whichever it may be at the time.)
In this case that we speak of all of the residents involved were dementia/alzheimers. So they wouldn't be able to communicate such behavior done to them in most cases let alone be believed. (Sadly.)
I have been beat up, spit on, sexually grabbed, had a bone broke, almost had my jaw broke etc. BUT in these situations one HAS to tell themselves that the action being done onto them is not the resident acting it is the disease acting. Thats where there is really no proper amount of training time.
I am still learning something new everyday I work. We all learn from each other on ways to deal with the stress. If you are having those feeling of stress where you might do or say something you will regret we are taught that as long as the resident is in a safe situation (IE sitting down) you simply walk away. Go take an extra break, go breathe for a moment. When you are ready go try again or let someone else take over if it seems necessary. These things obviously are not what these girls took into consideration. They were just simply mean girls. Brats. This is not over yet. They will get what is coming to them.

< KAAL News Story from tonight (8/28/08) >

Posted by Scarlet on Aug. 28 2008,10:03 pm

(Spidey @ Aug. 28 2008,7:23 pm)

QUOTE

I am ashamed to admit that I worked there for a short time years ago while in transition of jobs. It was the most awful job I have ever had. Not because of the elderly, but for the way we were "trained in", which was 2 or 3 days of ... nothing. Lot's of paper work and discussions on the residents rights.

wow... the above i am not sure if it posted or quoted correctly by Spidey. ANYWAY....

why are you ashamed? It was aweful?? I worked there also for a bit. It was the hardest job to do IF you did it right!!! If you didn't learn anything by their orientation then you were not paying attentiong. BESIDES... I didn't need them to tell me to not spit on the residents or touch them wrongly! omg... this isn't an ethical part on Good Sam...it's ethically wrong on these employees! OMG... it's SICK.

that's all... and just wanted to say... Spidey, don't ever be ashamed of taking care of valuable people. I think you are a great photgrapher, but I would take better pride in caring for the living than photographing it. (THAT'S NOT A CUT OR AN INVITE TO A FIGHT)

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 28 2008,10:15 pm

(cheeba @ Aug. 28 2008,9:53 pm)

QUOTE

Whopper Flopper at our local Burger King

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 28 2008,10:17 pm

< AL Tribs Article >

QUOTE

The Albert Lea Police Department conducted a separate investigation. Albert Lea Police Chief Dwaine Winkels said Thursday the report from his department’s investigation will not be released until Freeborn County Attorney Craig Nelson brings charges.

All Good Sam staff members were interviewed and asked about any concerns. Administrative staff conducted the interviews in the presence of the Albert Lea police officers.

“We knew when we received the complaint that it would be a difficult investigation because of the condition of the victims,” Winkels said. “That made this investigation extremely difficult. We did what we could to collect the evidence we could.”

His department has asked Nelson to file charges.

“We felt the allegations were severe enough, but it is ultimately up to the prosecutor,” he said.

LET EM HAVE IT!!!!

Good comments on Tribunes site too.

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 28 2008,10:35 pm

(Scarlet @ Aug. 28 2008,10:03 pm)

QUOTE

wow... the above i am not sure if it posted or quoted correctly by Spidey. ANYWAY....

why are you ashamed? It was aweful?? I worked there also for a bit. It was the hardest job to do IF you did it right!!! If you didn't learn anything by their orientation then you were not paying attentiong. BESIDES... I didn't need them to tell me to not spit on the residents or touch them wrongly! omg... this isn't an ethical part on Good Sam...it's ethically wrong on these employees! OMG... it's SICK.

that's all... and just wanted to say... Spidey, don't ever be ashamed of taking care of valuable people. I think you are a great photgrapher, but I would take better pride in caring for the living than photographing it. (THAT'S NOT A CUT OR AN INVITE TO A FIGHT)

I am ashamed because I know what goes on behind GS's closed doors. Working with the residents wasn't awful ... working side by side with some of the staff was; nurses included.

IF I did it right? If I paid attention?! I just told you what orientation consisted of, and I believe I did my job right. Not by what they taught, but by my own common sense. I also didn't need them to tell me not to spit on someone ... and if that's all you got out of my post, you are a representation of the mentality I am speaking of.

The employee's are wrong and sick. GS should also take accountability for hiring children that shouldn't even be in that situation without proper training AND supervision. These are people's lives we are dealing with ... this isn't Hormel.

What does my photography have to do with ANYTHING in this thread? You can take pride in more than one thing in your life. I did NOT take pride in working at GS. Not the way the residence were treated. Not the attitudes and comments coming out of the employee's mouth's. Yes, I am sad to say that I was very ashamed to have worked there ... but I was ashamed well before this incident happened.

Because you are a nurses assistant - does not make you an expert on all nursing homes.

Oh, and THAT'S NOT A CUT OR AN INVITE TO A FIGHT

Posted by Newbie on Aug. 28 2008,11:00 pm

I hope the Nurse who was told outside of work (back in March)by one of the NA's that "things were going on" got fired too. She didn't check into it or check back with the NA.
Reading the report it looks like there were mainly 2 NA's who were doing the abuse and the others either might have witnessed some instances or were hearing about it second hand. I really can't believe that if there was that much gossip that nurses or admin weren't hearing about it.

Posted by Scarlet on Aug. 28 2008,11:15 pm

So Spidey, you decided to argue? You didn't hear my meaning...so sorry you can't hear the info presented. I didn't cut on you. I was cutting on humans who need training to not behave poorly unless trained or told not to. Jeez Louise.

I actually thought Good Sam did well for initial training... it should also be said that at the time I was working there they were the ONLY nursing home that paid the full NA course at the college. The other nursing homes didn't do that...so in my estimation GS spends the money to ensure trained help.

The facts are, the "kids" in question were obviously F***ING ******* kids... trained in no way by their parents to treat humans as humans!!!!!!! I wish I knew who they were, I would personally reprimand them each as they disgust us all.

Sorry about the confusing photo comment. I meant that as a compliment. They are great. Just meant that when you were serving living people it was good....you should never be ashamed if you did right. I know you care about your pics....soo don't be ashamed of what you've done to deliberately hands on helped someone...no matter who was paying you. That's all...nothing bad about it...that's why I said not trying to argue. oofta.

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 28 2008,11:41 pm

So miss Scarlet .. me responding to your post means I decided to argue? You can throw out all of the Jeez Louise's and oofta's you want, if someone is going to attack my posts I will respond.

Ok, so I guess YOU working there over rules ME working there. Your experience sounds very different then mine. You seem to be disregarding my experience completely. It happened ... I was there.

Bottom line ... the girls need charges taken against them in a court of law, and I also believe a psych evaluation would be in order. Unless things have changed drastically since I've been there (and it's been several years), Good Sam needs to re-evaluate their training program to include classes - real ones.

This is the most disgusting story I have heard in a long time. I can't imagine living a long life into my 90's and end up in a nursing home with some bratty little sh*ts doing what these girls did. I can't imagine living out my life in that way, and I cry for the ones that had to endure these vicious acts. I'm so mad right now ... I probably shouldn't be posting.

Posted by White Pride on Aug. 28 2008,11:47 pm

(Newbie @ Aug. 28 2008,11:00 pm)

QUOTE

If the nurse was told only that "things were going on", she likely assumed it was the normal heckling and avoidance of the residents... not necessarily that the NA's were doing obscure sh!t.

Now, if I was GS (and the many other homes aware of this situation), I would be installing video monitoring of all resident's rooms.. this surely would have prevented acts like this from happening, and would aide the nurses in the care of the residents.

Posted by Newbie on Aug. 29 2008,12:03 am

(White Pride @ Aug. 28 2008,10:47 pm)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Aug. 28 2008,11:00 pm)

QUOTE

You know what they say about "assuming" things.
Look what happened.
I don't know why more facilities don't use cameras.

I still think the supervisors are accountable in this situation as well.

Posted by dipsie on Aug. 29 2008,1:12 pm

Just thought I would put in my two cents worth.
My daughter is a CNA at ThorneCrest and has been for six years now. She really enjoys her work (even though it is hard at times - especially the lifting).
What really bothers her is the way people put her down for the job she has. Not everybody can handle that type of work. Some lady came up to her, as an example, and asked her what she did for a living. When she told her she was a CNA at ThorneCrest the woman responded "Oh, you're just one of those butt washers.".
Some time ago a man moved from Good Sam to ThorneCrest and when she went to check on him he asked her to "choke his chicken". She, of course, didn't know what he was talking about. When it came out about those terrible things going on at Good Sam she knew why he would have said such a thing.

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 29 2008,2:10 pm

Actually, while working at GS, I never once encountered rude comments about my job. In fact, everyone always told me that they were in awe over NA's. Most would state that they could never do it.

As far as an male resident asking your daughter to "choke his chicken" .. I believe that is an "old" saying, and many residents would say things like that. I believe it has something to do with their progressive psychological diseases/disorders. There was also a man that wheeled around in his wheel chair every night at a certain time trying to "get the horses in the barn before the storms come". Much of what they will say is at random, and part of your job is knowing that.

Posted by dipsie on Aug. 29 2008,2:43 pm

It wasn't so much him saying "choke my chicken" but him going on to demonstrate what he meant. She is very used to them talking in the past thinking that was what was happening now. Many of the residents talk about their parents coming to visit etc.

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 29 2008,2:51 pm

(dipsie @ Aug. 29 2008,2:43 pm)

QUOTE

Hmm .. that doesn't make sense.

In one post you state: "Some time ago a man moved from Good Sam to ThorneCrest and when she went to check on him he asked her to "choke his chicken". She, of course, didn't know what he was talking about. When it came out about those terrible things going on at Good Sam she knew why he would have said such a thing. "

And now this post you say he "demonstrated" what he was talking about ... and your daughter didn't know what he meant?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but this just doesn't add up. :dunno:

Posted by dipsie on Aug. 29 2008,2:55 pm

As I stated when he said "choke his chicken" she didn't know what he was talking about. When he demonstrated she knew quite well what he was talking about and quickly left the room.

Posted by Swede on Aug. 29 2008,2:56 pm

I could just vomit !

Posted by White Pride on Aug. 29 2008,3:44 pm

(Swede @ Aug. 29 2008,2:56 pm)

QUOTE

I could just vomit !

So go vomit! Wanting someone to "choke his chicken" isn't disgusting! Most people call it forplay!

Posted by ICU812 on Aug. 29 2008,4:02 pm

(White Pride @ Aug. 29 2008,3:44 pm)

QUOTE

(Swede @ Aug. 29 2008,2:56 pm)

QUOTE

I could just vomit !

So go vomit! Wanting someone to "choke his chicken" isn't disgusting! Most people call it forplay!

Probably talking about what happened to the elders at Good Sam's by the people who were trusted to care for them..

If you want to call "choking his chicken" with an 80 year old man foreplay, have at, just keep it to yourself.

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 29 2008,5:15 pm

QUOTE

Freeborn County Attorney releases ages of alleged Good Sam perpetrators
Nelson said he cannot release names
By Sarah Stultz | Albert Lea Tribune

Published Friday, August 29, 2008

Out of the four teenagers who could likely be charged with alleged abuse at Good Samaritan Society in Albert Lea, two would have clearly been adults the time of the incidents, Freeborn County Attorney Craig Nelson said Friday. These two are the focus of his investigation.

Nelson told the Tribune the birthdates of the five teenage nursing assistants who were under investigation by authorities.

Out of the five teenagers, four are now 18 and one is 19 and all live in greater Albert Lea, he said. All would have gone to Albert Lea High School.

He would not specify which teenagers’ birthdates corresponded with the four girls who a Minnesota Department of Health report concluded were involved in verbal, sexual and emotional abuse of residents at the nursing home in Albert Lea.

He also would not release the names of the alleged perpetrators. He said he needs to file charges before their names can be released.

“My position at this time is to continue to read these two documents together and to confirm information that is common between the two of them that I might be able to use at the time of a criminal trial and for the basis of charges,” Nelson said.

He is “a ways away from being able to charge the Good Sam cases,” he said.

“I need to have my ducks in a row in a fashion that I can have a clear handle on everything from the get-go.”

Nelson said he anticipates that the case will be a hard one to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court because of how many different stories the alleged perpetrators told authorities and because of the lack of concrete evidence and actual witnesses.

All of the investigation taken together in total is obscure, he said, with much vagueness in some parts.

“The level of how this could have happened,” Nelson said. “They obviously did not have empathy for the people they saw. They didn’t know what they were like before the Alzheimer’s or the dementia — that they were capable, contributing, even outstanding members of the community.”

The four girls the Department of Health identified in its report are no longer employed at the nursing home. The fifth girl was also fired from the nursing home for unrelated circumstances.

I hope the familys of the residents involved push for the harshest charges possible in this case.
But I see his point of lack of evidence and the victims can't speak for themselves. Makes this one a tough one. Stupid girls will probably get away with it.

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Aug. 29 2008,7:23 pm

For those that read the report, some of the patients died shortly after. Did these aids help contribute to their death for the abuse these patients endured? Murder charges may be in order.

I still would like to know where the nurses and supervison was during all of this. Behind a desk I am sure. Reminds me of our clinic.

Posted by MissPriss on Aug. 29 2008,7:49 pm

I worked their as a teenage and as a young woman-it was pure hell! They couldn't pay me to put someone I love in there.....maybe someone I don't like though, no probably not them either...unless they really pissed me off

Posted by busybee on Aug. 29 2008,8:21 pm

Truly heartbreaking...most of you probably already know how I feel about this...there is NO EXCUSE for ABUSE!

Good Sam is a fairly large facility yet a "contained" environment and employees "overheard" statements that I would consider a huge concern for the safety and well being of those residents.

Why did it take so long before someone actually did something??? Does the same theory of "people not wanting to get involved" apply to this also? Just curious what others thoughts on the matter is.

There really isn't any laws that I know of where charges of emotional or verbal abuse carry much merit. The sexual abuse part, yes and some of the things reported I would also consider physical abuse.

It would be nice if these abusers would get assault charges, physical and sexual and to also have to register as sex offenders. Where do people get the idea that it's okay to treat others this way? Dayum...it's just sick & disgusting!

Posted by muckluck on Aug. 29 2008,9:30 pm

This makes me soooooo sad. Truely, what are we doing? Are we raising these monsters? What the heck is going on? These are the most volunerable people and instead of putting them on a pedestal and showing them the respect they deserve and have earned by a lifetime of stories and accomplishments we pay people to care for them and pay these people sooooo little that an adult can't raise his own family on it. So what are you left with....? Kids,,,,thats what. Uneducated, kids that don't have respect for anyone much less themselves.

My mom is a CNA, she's 60 years old and LOVES her job. She and many like her that work in this field deserve an applause and a heartfelt thank you for the wonderful work they do for our older generation. But these few bad apples.............they need to answer for there actions and be prosecuted. These girls (I'm assuming their girls) need counceling, community service hours and somehow.......find common decency and empathy within themselves. God help us all if this is what we have to look forward to in this generation of kids. I personally hope and believe that they are the minority...............I hope.

Posted by Two Bears on Aug. 29 2008,9:48 pm

Okay I have a question.

If these girls are prosecuted and found guilty, because of the sexual abuse alligations, wouldn't they have to register as sex offenders, no matter what their age??

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 29 2008,11:06 pm

I am surprised these girls names have not leaked out already. I also have to wonder what the parents of these girls are thinking or doing? I can't imagine how I would feel if one of my children did something like this.

It doesn't sound like the girls will be prosecuted at all. Craig Nelson claims he doesn't have enough evidence. Where have I heard that before?

Posted by White Pride on Aug. 29 2008,11:44 pm

(ICU812 @ Aug. 29 2008,4:02 pm)

QUOTE

(White Pride @ Aug. 29 2008,3:44 pm)

QUOTE

(Swede @ Aug. 29 2008,2:56 pm)

QUOTE

I could just vomit !

So go vomit! Wanting someone to "choke his chicken" isn't disgusting! Most people call it forplay!

I see you kinda took that in the wrong way....

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2008,12:46 am

QUOTE

If these girls are prosecuted and found guilty, because of the sexual abuse alligations, wouldn't they have to register as sex offenders, no matter what their age??

I think that it would have to depend upon the charges, and to what degree (felony vs gross misdemeanor), if any. I know nothing about employee-vulnerable adults laws, so I have no idea.

I know when I wrote that the sexual misconduct should require that whoever did it would have to register as a sex offender, I was wishfully thinking.

Any type of sexual abuse is about power and control. The way the reports reads, for sure at least one person described in this situation had chosen their victims....very carefully, because the pay off in doing that is the personal satisfaction of having power and control while getting away with it.

These are the type of people who aren't even mentally ill, which some people might believe to be true, when in fact it is not. A mentally ill person would do that to anyone if they had the chance or opportunity, at random. A mentally ill person wouldn't care if the person was capable or vulnerable.

To me, I see an abuser, 100% and I would wish for this person to be accountable for that choice in behavior 100%. Abusers are very good at what they do and that's why so often we see no accountability, little or no charges, and the abuse will continue until finally they get caught, mostly because they become careless in their abuse as it continues to escalate over time.

We're talking about a young woman here who purposely was verbally, emotionally, physically and sexually abusive to vulnerable elderly adults with Alzheimer's who had no way to defend themselves.

One has to wonder....what future abusive behavior will she display? What about when/if she has children or if she does already? Children are vulnerable. She will probably even choose a significant other that will tolerate her power, control and abuse.

Posted by MissPriss on Aug. 30 2008,7:58 am

(Two Bears @ Aug. 29 2008,9:48 pm)

QUOTE

Okay I have a question.

If these girls are prosecuted and found guilty, because of the sexual abuse alligations, wouldn't they have to register as sex offenders, no matter what their age??

I would assume so.

It is sad that their training allowed them to even consider that kind of behavior as an option.

I am sure Good Sam did some covering up and I hope that they get sued.

Maybe they need to be shut down all together, and a new organization should come into albert lea, but not in that building, that building needs to be torn down because those girls have cursed it.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Aug. 30 2008,9:25 am

Dear Miss Priss,
The problem doesn't appear to be the building, or the Good Samaritan organization. It is first and foremost a behavioral problem belonging to the 4 or 5 girls being investigates. Then it becomes a supervisory problem that allowed this problem to go on and effect so many residents for as long as it did. It is an administration problem for not being more responsive when the first stories of this began to come out. Shutting down the organization and taking down the building because bad things happened there, although becoming fasionable, really doesn't make any sense to me. These young sociopaths should never again work with the elderly, and quite frankly I question if they should even have contact with living animals. The Good Samaritan organization should review this facility's management, organization systems and processes and make the changes apparent to be needed in supervision and make improvement in their hiring practices. Lastly the residents and this community need assurances that this resident home has and will continue to make every effort to prevent such acts from ever occurring again.
What really has upset me is that I know of several residents who have been sent to the hospital for dehidration while this abuse has gone on. Can't even see to it that the residents get enough fluids to stay healthy. They hire kids that would be screened out had they applied at any other health care facility in town, and let them run amuck with out supervision. Things do have to change there, but shutting the facility and knocking down the building doesn't improve anything.
Alfy

Posted by dipsie on Aug. 30 2008,10:42 am

White Pride,
Quote: "So go vomit! Wanting someone to "choke his chicken" isn't disgusting! Most people call it forplay!"
If you think that an 80 plus year old man asking a 20 something young woman to "choke his chicken" isn't disgusting and that most people call it foreplay does that mean that you don't think what those teen-age girls did to the residents at Good Sam was wrong??
When they say the staff at the rest homes are supposed to take care of the residents I DO NOT think it means sexually! :angry:

Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 30 2008,11:41 am

(Scarlet @ Aug. 28 2008,11:15 pm)

QUOTE

The facts are, the "kids" in question were obviously F***ING ******* kids... trained in no way by their parents to treat humans as humans!!!!!!! I wish I knew who they were, I would personally reprimand them each as they disgust us all.

This is the core problem. Too many idiots reproducing.

To wit:

Posted by White Pride on Aug. 30 2008,2:37 pm

(dipsie @ Aug. 30 2008,10:42 am)

QUOTE

I will try to explain my response in lay terms, filling in the blanks, so as not to confuse anyone any further.

What the girls did at GS is disgusting, revolting, absurd!

When Swede commented that they wanted to go vomit, I was under the impression it was over the idea of having one's chicken choked, and not in regards to what happened at GS. The reason I got this impression is that the comment immediately before Swede's didn't have anything to do with what happened at GS. It had to do with your daughter's experience at Thronecrest. The way it was all worded, it looked as though Swede thought ANY reference to manual stimulation is disgusting. My comment was merely to state that in consenting adults, this is quite normal, and an acceptable form of foreplay. I really didn't believe that I would have to outline the comment so specifically as to not offend anyone who couldn't read between the lines.

My comment had nothing, I REPEAT, NOTHING to do with what happened at GS NOR an elderly resident requesting such an act from a NA. Even though the thought of an elderly man looking to a young female for stimulation may seem very disgusting, I can't say that I would blame him for trying! If you were 80+, 2 steps from death's door, and perhaps not all there mentally, and had a young, active person at your beacon-call, wouldn't you make suggestions like that to entertain yourself in your final days? I would best most of us would, wether or not we care to admit it now. It happens all the time at every assisted-care facility in the world.

Now, if anyone wants to say that I condone what happened at GS, let me tell you right now, nothing could be farther from the truth. If I was the parent of one of those NAs, I would sit them down, and ask them "what the hell were you thinking? Don't you realize those people are someones parent, sibling, uncle, grandparent? They are human beings for christ's sake! You should be ashamed of yourself!"

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2008,3:35 pm

Botto82....that video....lmao! :rofl:

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2008,4:04 pm

QUOTE

These young sociopaths should never again work with the elderly, and quite frankly I question if they should even have contact with living animals.

QUOTE

The Good Samaritan organization should review this facility's management, organization systems and processes and make the changes apparent to be needed in supervision and make improvement in their hiring practices.

Management....yes! Supervision of staff....YES!

Hiring practices...How?

How does a person know that the future employee they hire is going to be abusive to others? Would it be a "gut" feeling?

Chances are someone with abusive behavioral characteristics will only display that behavior when it is "safe." That means in an interview, during the hiring process, training in ( no matter how long they would job shadow with someone else) they can con anyone into believing they have the personality and appropriate behaviors to do the job. No one will be aware of an existing future potential of abusive acts.

Someone mentioned it already and I agree, especially when it comes to patients with Alzheimer's, put video surveillance cameras in their rooms.

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Aug. 30 2008,4:56 pm

I had posted earlier how strange it was that 3 of the patients in the report died shortly after their abuse.

After talking with several people, it has become clear to me that the 3 deaths should be pivotal in this investigation. Although the sexual abuse is degusting, sick and criminal, these deaths need to be investigated much further.

I want to know if any of the patients that died - died of upper respiratory infections, pneumonia or specifically aspiration pneumonia? Because, it was stated that the aids put water in their mouths and then shoot/spit into vulnerable residents mouths. This would go directly to the lungs, much like water boarding causing aspiration pneumonia.

Also, putting fingers in the rectal area and in other body cavities, did that introduce infections?? Did any of the patients become septic? (Infected blood).

They tried to cover up 1st degree sexual assault by inserting fingers in the rectal areas, then all of a sudden the story changes that they are stimulating bowels?? Come on.

In my opinion a murder investigation needs to be top priority. This is more serious than some young girls behaving badly or using poor judgement. Who cares if they did not have a prior record. Maybe they never got caught before.

Any thoughts??

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Aug. 30 2008,5:17 pm

One more thing,

We need to get a hold of the attorney generals office, the media or 20/20 if our prosecutor does not have the guts to prosecute this case. Then the state of MN and the public needs to know beyond the scope of small ville Minnesota. I hope the family members of these elderly victims get together and does a class action law suit against the facility, the abusers, and the abusers family.

Good Sam needs to get rid of ALL administration. According to the health department, they did not find substantiation with Good Sam, however, who is going to want to put their family members there?? We do not know for a fact that ALL of the abusers are gone. How was this missed? How did it go on for so long? Any long term care facility policy has to include that we do not pair teenagers together. MORE SUPERVISION. What about nanny cams?

There should be a ZERO tolerance policy for elder abuse, including verbal, physical and sexual. PERIOD. Good Sam needs to clean house and start over with different staff or close down.

These girls are PSYCHOPATHIC SEXUAL PREDATORS, not your sweet little girl next door.

Posted by cheeba on Aug. 30 2008,6:30 pm

QUOTE

They tried to cover up 1st degree sexual assault by inserting fingers in the rectal areas, then all of a sudden the story changes that they are stimulating bowels?? Come on.

Well for one they should have NEVER been "stimulating their bowels". Licenced Nurses are not to do any of this without a doctors order and even then they are trained. One can cause injury to this area if done wrong. They used to "dig them out" if necessary (sorry if that grossed anyone out) but well at least at St Johns this practice is not used anymore. And like I said this was/is by licenced/trained nurses only. NA's are not tought this procedure.

Posted by sam on Aug. 30 2008,7:06 pm

These girls knowing addmitted, so let them go to court and bring in the witnesses lets see if the CNA that came forward is telling the truth, Maybe the CNA is guilty of something far more worse (k) Maybe she thought some thing was going to be brought up about her because of the fact somebody was already had been suspended Look at the dates

Posted by sam on Aug. 30 2008,7:39 pm

what i said above was a quote taken from the albert lea tribune discussion page about this and it kinda makes me think that it could be true!

Posted by countryboy on Aug. 30 2008,8:01 pm

How do we get the major media involved, this may help Craig do his job?

Posted by Liberal on Aug. 30 2008,8:22 pm

QUOTE

The Freeborn County Attorney says the five women face gross misdemeanor charges, which means one year in jail, a $3-thousand dollar fine or both as a maximum plenty.

< http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S561206.shtml?cat=10219 >

Reminds me of the time the pizza guy got his skull bashed in with an axe handle.

QUOTE

Specifically, Boyenga was charged with one third-degree controlled substance count for possession of marijuana with the intent to sell, one third-degree controlled substance count for manufacturing 5 kilograms or more of marijuana and one third-degree controlled substance count for possession of 5 kilograms or more of marijuana.

Each charge carries a maximum penalty of 30 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

There is a two-year mandatory minimum for each charge.

< http://www.albertleatribune.com/news....s-found >

God Bless America!

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Aug. 30 2008,8:33 pm

Unbelievable.

Posted by Common Sense For A.L. on Aug. 30 2008,9:03 pm

We have heard from an employee of Good Sam that there is a video tape of all 4 girls ADMITTING what they did in a police interview!!!
If this is true then they should have no problem convicting them....

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 30 2008,10:13 pm

I can just about see this.

One year jail stayed one year, $3000 fine stayed $2900, five years probation, must remain on good behavior five years and have no contact with victims. (deceased or otherwise)

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2008,10:19 pm

Liberal..... :cheer:

Even though we've went a few rounds (just a little bit :;):

) about domestic abuse issues....it is great that you point out the connection between how insignificant abuse is compared to illegal drug charges and sentencing guidelines.

Abuse and drug manufacturing with intent to sell are CHOICES people make.

People who purchase a dealer's drug are making a choice to do so.

How many people do you think make the choice to be abused?

Posted by Spidey on Aug. 30 2008,10:22 pm

(countryboy @ Aug. 30 2008,8:01 pm)

QUOTE

How do we get the major media involved, this may help Craig do his job?

Call them

Posted by busybee on Aug. 30 2008,10:29 pm

Maddog...I'd say at most 2 years probation, Anger Management Classes, don't forget the random u.a's, be a law abiding citizen and the no contact with victims. (deceased or otherwise... :rofl:

) Plea bargain, rather than trial.

I can't imagine the impact this has had on the family members of the victims.

Posted by Scarlet on Aug. 30 2008,10:44 pm

I just want to say... yeah I can't believe names have not leaked yet. Also, I have heard that one of the offenders is not only enrolled in a nursing program, but also is or has been employed in a caregiver position since the incident. this is ABSURD! let's call them all out! if anyone has knowledge please print it! omg.

Posted by Newbie on Aug. 31 2008,10:43 am

Hey I know why don't you just get out the torches and pitchforks and go hunt them down. I'm mean why bother with the courts or the legal system.

Posted by countryboy on Aug. 31 2008,11:00 am

(Newbie @ Aug. 31 2008,10:43 am)

QUOTE

Hey I know why don't you just get out the torches and pitchforks and go hunt them down. I'm mean why bother with the courts or the legal system.

Are you supporting these actions by these girls, all everyone wants here if for the County Attorney to do his job to the fullest extent of the law. And it is very obvious that they have no faith in this attorney.

Posted by Botto 82 on Aug. 31 2008,11:01 am

(Newbie @ Aug. 31 2008,10:43 am)

QUOTE

Hey I know why don't you just get out the torches and pitchforks and go hunt them down. I'm mean why bother with the courts or the legal system.

Hell, shoot 'em dead, for all I care. It's not like we're running low on stupid people.

Posted by Newbie on Aug. 31 2008,11:22 am

(countryboy @ Aug. 31 2008,10:00 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Aug. 31 2008,10:43 am)

QUOTE

Hey I know why don't you just get out the torches and pitchforks and go hunt them down. I'm mean why bother with the courts or the legal system.

Well maybe he knows things about the law that they don't. Like hearsay and circumstantial evidence. You know things that can't be used in court even if video taped. The other problem is the trial of this in the media will not help the prosecution. It will taint the jury pool and will probably cause them to offer pleas.

If you really read the report it seems to me that only two of these girls were mainly responsible. The others heard about it or where shown the video later. I guess the mob will be happy because the two main offenders where 18.

So I guess if everyone thinks they know best or better than the people who went to law school they can go grab their torches and pitchforks.

Oh and just because I don't have a mob mentality doesn't mean I don't find the accusations disturbing.

Posted by MADDOG on Aug. 31 2008,12:00 pm

(Botto 82 @ Aug. 31 2008,11:01 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Aug. 31 2008,10:43 am)

QUOTE

Hey I know why don't you just get out the torches and pitchforks and go hunt them down. I'm mean why bother with the courts or the legal system.

Hell, shoot 'em dead, for all I care. It's not like we're running low on stupid people.

In some ways, I'm with you on that.

Just making sure those who deserve go to the big house in general population where their peers may admire them might be good enough.

Posted by Swede on Aug. 31 2008,12:54 pm

I previously posted: " I could just vomit !" I most certainly was referring to this whole sad case of aides abusing nursing home residents. I'm still trying to hold it back.

My past experience with nursing homes has so far been only positive. Both my late mother and father were treated with caring and dignity. Thank you to those 99% compassionate care givers.

Posted by Brian NIelsen on Sep. 01 2008,12:58 am

Swede, I guess it was just White Pride's sick/dirty mind thinking otherwise... The rest of us on here knew what you were referring to when you stated you wanted to vomit. Unfortunately, some people don't think before responding and that makes them look like a complete a@@. Sorry if I offended anyone (WP). :sarcasm:

What happened at GS is sick and grotesque~nothing to joke about. I still can't comprehend what in the hell all those people were thinking not reporting it sooner!

Posted by DrBombay on Sep. 07 2008,6:00 am

QUOTE

I would be installing video monitoring of all resident's rooms.. this surely would have prevented acts like this from happening, and would aide the nurses in the care of the residents.

I'm guessing this would be a violation of the patients right to privacy under State guidelines.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 07 2008,12:30 pm

lets see

video monitoring system as a violation of patient rights or sick and twisted nursing aides sexually, physically, and emotionally abusing them.

It is a tough call, but sadly this may be the only protection option for a patient who cannot speak for themself.

Posted by Botto 82 on Sep. 07 2008,1:25 pm

Yeah, it's just great, they nurse us through countless ailments when we're young, and we repay that love by warehousing them in these deathwatch facilities, because we've convinced ourselves that this is what's best, when we secretly know the score.

Then something like this comes to light.

It's a sad deal, all the way around.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 07 2008,5:44 pm

Well, who are they ?

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 07 2008,5:49 pm

(Two Bears @ Sep. 07 2008,12:30 pm)

QUOTE

Isn't that just what government wants?

I'll put this in so you can see it twice in this post.

QUOTE

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin

Botto, all care facilities aren't like that. And even the best ones can have this type of problems. I've been around several homes quite frequently and none of them are "death watch" homes. All of them are in small towns though.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 07 2008,5:51 pm

WHO ARE THEY?

Posted by Thats_queenie_2u on Sep. 07 2008,5:58 pm

I feel like the trib has just let this topic go. I watch this website every day to see if something new has been added. It seems this website keeps up on the subject more than our community newspaper. I don't want a witch hunt, but the rumors that one of them is in the nursing program makes me sick. I am a nursing student and it's hard to see my classmates and wonder if one of them are the so called accused. I also have clinicals at Good Sams and it is hard to see the caring employees who DO love their jobs and know that their reputation is besmirched also. Names on these girls would go a long way toward healing and defusing the situation.

By the way, this is my first post, I have been watching this website for a few months and finally decided to come out of my shell. lol

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm

(Two Bears @ Sep. 07 2008,5:51 pm)

QUOTE

WHO ARE THEY?

It is getting ridiculous why they haven't released the names of the accused yet.

I suppose in a few weeks it will be reported in the Tribune that charges have been files and the accused will be receiving a summons in the mail.

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm

Well I hope when and if charges are filed the trial is not held anywhere near Albert Lea. It is obvious that it would not be a fair trial.
As much as some of you posters claim you're not on a "witch hunt" or that you don't have a "mob mentality" your posts say the opposite.
I truly hope none of you are ever in the position were you are accused of something that you might not be guilty of and have your home town try you in the media/internet and decide you're guilty without knowing what really happened.

Oh, and before you find me guilty of being one of the accused. I don't even live in your state.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 07 2008,6:12 pm

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

WHO CARES.....WHO ARE THEY?

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 07 2008,6:15 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 07 2008,5:10 pm)

QUOTE

(Two Bears @ Sep. 07 2008,5:51 pm)

QUOTE

WHO ARE THEY?

Probably because some of them were minors during the allegations.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 07 2008,6:16 pm

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

I truly hope none of you are ever in the position were you are accused of something that you might not be guilty of and have your home town try you in the media/internet and decide you're guilty without knowing what really happened.

I truly hope none of us is ever in the position of receiving the treatment from caregivers as these have admitted doing.

Posted by Thats_queenie_2u on Sep. 07 2008,6:17 pm

Newbie-
These girls have confessed to the crime. This isn't a guilt or innocence issue, it's a how are we going to punish them issue.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 07 2008,6:17 pm

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:15 pm)

QUOTE

Probably because some of them were minors during the allegations.

I understand that, but some of them weren't.

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 07 2008,6:32 pm

(Thats_queenie_2u @ Sep. 07 2008,5:17 pm)

QUOTE

Newbie-
These girls have confessed to the crime. This isn't a guilt or innocence issue, it's a how are we going to punish them issue.

Two of the girls admitted guilt. Yet everyone wants them all "hung". Reading peoples comments on this site along with the tribune reminds of the book "Lord of the Flies".
I believe there needs to be justice. Not everything is black and white especially with the law. This is going to be a complicated case. It's only getting worse with the tainting of the jury pool in the area. Everyone thinks they "know" what really happened and what exactly the punishment should be.
Reading that report several times it seems obvious to me that not everyone who should be on the accused list made it there. Including supervisors who heard gossip of abuse months ago and did nothing. Some of these girls who told out of the "goodness of their hearts", I don't buy it. I think they're trying to cover their own butts.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 07 2008,7:00 pm

How come the national news has not covered this event?

I am sure that they would be able to find out who the perverted POS's are

Where is FOX news when you need them?

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 07 2008,7:10 pm

(Two Bears @ Sep. 07 2008,7:00 pm)

QUOTE

How come the national news has not covered this event?

I am sure that they would be able to find out who the perverted POS's are

Where is FOX news when you need them?

It was picked up by the AP.

QUOTE

Staff accused of abuse at nursing home in Albert Lea
Associated Press

Article Last Updated: 08/29/2008 08:22:43 AM CDT

ALBERT LEA — The Minnesota Department of Health says 15 residents of a nursing home in Albert Lea were victims of physical, sexual and emotional abuse by nursing assistants.

In a report released Thursday, the health department says the residents live at the Evangelical Lutheran Good Samaritan Society, which has several locations in Minnesota.

According to the report, the nursing assistants allegedly spit in residents' mouths, poked their breasts and touched their genitals. The residents, who all suffered from Alzheimer's disease or other dementia disorders, were also subject to teasing.

An internal investigation by staff led the nursing home to contact the health department and local law enforcement. Investigators say the four nursing assistants that were involved no longer work at the home.

< twincities >

and FOX picked it up too. < FOX 9 News >

Posted by JustCurious on Sep. 08 2008,11:51 am

These girls need to GO DOWN!! What they did to those poor residents is inexcusable....

Posted by Thats_queenie_2u on Sep. 08 2008,12:44 pm

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:32 pm)

QUOTE

Reading that report several times it seems obvious to me that not everyone who should be on the accused list made it there. Including supervisors who heard gossip of abuse months ago and did nothing. Some of these girls who told out of the "goodness of their hearts", I don't buy it. I think they're trying to cover their own butts.

I totally agree that the accused list is not complete. Nurses that knew and were too afraid to come forward and god forbid if administration knew before and tried to cover it up. That to me is beyond comprehension. I just don't want these girls in the health care profession anymore. It looks like it's going to take an act of congress to get anything done, another day and nothing in the trib about it :hairpull:

Does anyone care that the whole midwest knows about this???!!!

Posted by sam on Sep. 09 2008,2:12 am

The reason nothing else has been in the tribune is because they still don't know what they are going to do.. and when i read this fourm all i see is people repeating themselves constently and im pretty sure the tribune doesnt want the same article in the paper. If they wanted the public to know who these allegded perps. are they would have told you. The reason they haven't is because they don't know exactly what was done or by who it was done by. Everyone just needs to relax and when craig is ready to tell the public he wil.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Sep. 09 2008,6:27 am

Are we ever going to get the name of these girls ??

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,8:19 am

(cheeba @ Aug. 28 2008,6:25 pm)

QUOTE

(ANTILIBERAL @ Aug. 28 2008,4:57 pm)

QUOTE

Personally, I think the facility should be shut down. Would you want your mother or father or relative staying at a place like this? I wouldn’t even want my dog there.

Did you read the report by the state??
Yes there should have been fault with the facility.

#1 Emloyee K was made aware of the abuses in Januaray '08.

#2 Employee T (NURSE) was made aware of this in January '08 off campus and said you need to report this. Then checked documentation in MARCH, 2 months later!!!!

#3 WHERE were the CHARGE NURSES!! At a desk??!!

#4 Employee M was made aware of these abuses and did nothing!!!

#5 One of them stuck their finger in resident #9's butt
Claiming bowel stimulation.
WHAT??? Nurses aids are not trained to perform bowel stimulation. That is the NURSES job.
Further, that's easy enough to check out. All they have to do is look in resident #9's charting and see if they are having difficulty moving bowels and required assistance. If it is not indicated in the charting THERE WAS NO NEED FOR BOWEL STIMULATION!! By anyone.

#6 Good Sam used to at least, have a program of COTA/CNA where a TRAINED occupational therapy assistants followed the aids to be sure they were complying with duties.

I agree with anti liberal.

I would not put my dog in a place like that.

These aids NEED to be charged with sexual assault and have to register as sex offenders.

Let them see how FUNNY that is!
This abuse is no different than sexual abuses inflicted on an infant or small child who cannot speak for themselves either.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,8:25 am

(Two Bears @ Sep. 07 2008,7:00 pm)

QUOTE

How come the national news has not covered this event?

I am sure that they would be able to find out who the perverted POS's are

Where is FOX news when you need them?

I know that someone HAS contacted Fox News, Nancy Grace, Geraldo Rivera. But they have not heard back.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,8:38 am

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

Don't EVEN go there.

We have been on the front page, on the news, had to hire a lawyer, and nothing ever came of the charges.
Because the incident never occurred.
Ya think THAT was ever put in the paper??

Yea, I'm pissed.

I want to know who they are too, I've heard rumors.

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 09 2008,9:18 am

(Santorini @ Sep. 09 2008,7:38 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

Well I did go there Santorini.
If you were falsely accused and tried in the media as you claim. You should understand my previous post.

What is it that you all want to do when and if you find out their names?
What if some of these accusations are false about some of the girls. Are you all going to apologize for assuming that they are all guilty.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 09 2008,9:27 am

(Santorini @ Sep. 09 2008,8:38 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

You say you have heard rumors.....send me a PM me on the "rumors" I would like to know whats out there.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Sep. 09 2008,9:34 am

These girls must all be related to some on the higher ups in town or their names would already be out there. Got to love Albert Lea and the fairness that goes on in that town...

Posted by ANTILIBERAL on Sep. 09 2008,10:11 am

So what are the rumors?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,11:24 am

(Newbie @ Sep. 09 2008,9:18 am)

QUOTE

(Santorini @ Sep. 09 2008,7:38 am)

QUOTE

(Newbie @ Sep. 07 2008,6:10 pm)

QUOTE

Newbie, Did you even read the report submitted by the state??
They ADMITTED the abuse.
Repeat...ADMITTED to the abuse.
To the GS interviewers, the state, the police.
This is validated by the state and the witness'.
What more do you want?
Facts are facts and you can't wash it away.
Abuse is abuse. And admitted abuse is admitted abuse.
Yea, it's gonna be tried by the community, gossip is gonna run freely, this is the a despicable crime they admitted to.
And they only way this case will see a court of law is if the families of the victims unite for a class-action against GS. Because you can be sure it will all be settled out of court. No names released.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,11:27 am

(notinalbertleaanymore @ Sep. 09 2008,9:34 am)

QUOTE

These girls must all be related to some on the higher ups in town or their names would already be out there. Got to love Albert Lea and the fairness that goes on in that town...

Need we say more.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,12:03 pm

(Thats_queenie_2u @ Sep. 07 2008,5:58 pm)

QUOTE

The report by the State stated at the end these "girls" will have files now and will not be able to get through the background checks. The abuse will be recorded with the State.
But nothing really would suprise me if one is nursing student or not. Not to start a fight but....
I graduated college in 2002, and when I started college I was in core cirriculum classes with nursing students, physical therapy students, occuptional therapy students, radiology students. The first day the teachers of each of these disciplines had us all in a huge lecture hall and went around the room to ask us individually why we chose the dicipline we chose. It took close to 2 hours to get through everyone...but, PT, OT, radiology responded with, I want to help someone, I want to be of service to others. 99.9% of the nursing students responded with "For the money". I lost my faith then.
Granted, there are genuinely nice, caring nurses but many are not in their dicipline for the caring part!

Call me naive, but I didn't know these nusing homes hired underage people. They never used to.

Posted by hairhertz on Sep. 09 2008,5:31 pm

We'll take good care of grandma for you, trust us. Oh, by the way, that will be $6000 up front for the first month.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 09 2008,6:12 pm

(Santorini @ Sep. 09 2008,11:27 am)

QUOTE

(notinalbertleaanymore @ Sep. 09 2008,9:34 am)

QUOTE

These girls must all be related to some on the higher ups in town or their names would already be out there. Got to love Albert Lea and the fairness that goes on in that town...

Need we say more.

yes, i guess we do. Do you think if they were the kids of the "upper crust" they would be working there anyway.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 09 2008,7:21 pm

QUOTE

Funny thing is....admittance of abuse doesn't necessarily mean it's admissible evidence in a court trial and, if it is, it doesn't mean the defendant is going to testify to it....or even take the stand to testify.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everything is as easy as it seems, even when they have witnesses, and in this case, they don't have any REAL witnesses to testify about the abuse.

And....having a disturbing report that has been made public, and is being used in "publicity" it's going to continue to lose any potential it may have at being used in a trial because the more people who know, the less people there is to select for a jury trial.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 09 2008,7:42 pm

QUOTE

Do you think if they were the kids of the "upper crust" they would be working there anyway.

I guess he got you there.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,10:32 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 09 2008,7:21 pm)

QUOTE

BusyBee,
How will they explain away the video interviews and what was stated??
And the State finding evidence to make claims.
By "real" witness' you mean those of sound mind?
Gee, I don' know,
what do they do when the abuse involves an infant or a small child who cannot speak on their own behalf, whether it be physical, emotional, or sexual?

It won't be tried in court and if it is probably a change of venue due to all the pre-trial publicity, don't ya think?!
They won't need to worry about local jury pools.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 09 2008,10:39 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 09 2008,7:42 pm)

QUOTE

Do you think if they were the kids of the "upper crust" they would be working there anyway.

I guess he got you there.

No...he didn't get me there.
Just goes to show what he knows.
There are lots of, how did you word it, "upper crust" kids that actually do have jobs.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 09 2008,10:50 pm

Then the upper crust must be lots thicker than I thought.

Posted by notinalbertleaanymore on Sep. 10 2008,6:52 am

When I lived in town I was "upper crust" and I had a job....maybe their parents paid to have their names not in the media.. Albert Lea is good for that..

Or maybe they are all Craig Nelson's kids.

Posted by Old Cracker on Sep. 10 2008,7:22 am

(gurrah @ Sep. 09 2008,10:50 pm)

QUOTE

Then the upper crust must be lots thicker than I thought.

The "upper crust" gets a little closer to the lower crust every year in this town.

Posted by Common Citizen on Sep. 10 2008,7:24 am

I predict that Good Sam will be sold and the business will have a new name when it is all said and done.

This is a sad day in Albert Lea history.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 10 2008,8:35 am

(Common Citizen @ Sep. 10 2008,7:24 am)

QUOTE

This is a sad day in Albert Lea history.

You mean another sad day in Albert Lea history.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 10 2008,9:03 am

(MADDOG @ Sep. 10 2008,8:35 am)

QUOTE

(Common Citizen @ Sep. 10 2008,7:24 am)

QUOTE

This is a sad day in Albert Lea history.

You mean another sad day in Albert Lea history.

you got that right!

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 10 2008,11:07 am

Anyone have any names of the perps yet? Lets hear them.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 10 2008,11:42 am

What do the names matter? :dunno:

People weaker than others are abused everyday by someone they know.

Do you care to know their names?

Do you care to make them pay for what they do?

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 10 2008,12:07 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 10 2008,11:42 am)

QUOTE

What do the names matter? :dunno:

People weaker than others are abused everyday by someone they know.

Do you care to know their names?

Do you care to make them pay for what they do?

DOG GONE RIGHT I CARE

DOG GONE RIGHT I WANT THEM TO PAY

DOG GONE RIGHT THE NAMES MATTER.

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO THE PERPS ARE, THEN MAYBE THEY WILL NOT EVER GET A JOB IN A FIELD LIKE THIS AGAIN.

WAS IT YOU ?

Posted by gljoefan on Sep. 10 2008,3:24 pm

Two Beers,

I think the point being made is that the names will come out. Let this run the course.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 10 2008,4:31 pm

QUOTE

Two Beers

I used to know a gal we called "two drink Pam." :rofl:

Posted by busybee on Sep. 10 2008,5:31 pm

QUOTE

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO THE PERPS ARE, THEN MAYBE THEY WILL NOT EVER GET A JOB IN A FIELD LIKE THIS AGAIN.

WAS IT YOU ?

If there's anyone against abuse and speaks out about it on this forum...most know it's me. You're crawling up the wrong tree! :;):

As I stated before...some people are abused everyday by someone they know. Do you know the names of these "perps?"

Let me ask you this....if you saw a man (possibly a dad) dragging a male child by his hair in the Wal-Mart parking lot to a vehicle, while this man is stating to this child...."You're a selfish little ba$tard. All you care about is yourself. You need to learn respect and I'm gonna teach you...."

What would you think? What could you do? Would you involve yourself? Would you want justice & accountability?

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 11 2008,12:55 am

(busybee @ Sep. 10 2008,5:31 pm)

QUOTE

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO THE PERPS ARE, THEN MAYBE THEY WILL NOT EVER GET A JOB IN A FIELD LIKE THIS AGAIN.

WAS IT YOU ?

If there's anyone against abuse and speaks out about it on this forum...most know it's me. You're crawling up the wrong tree! :;):

RIGHT AFTER I dialed 911 and put the phone in my pocket I would stop that guy get in his face and ask him why he is abusing this kid, then make him try and defend himself if he really needs it.
:deadhorse:

What would you do, run to your car and think "hey Two Bears has the kids back" and leave without helping the kid?

As far as the "other abused people" goes I would love to know their names but unfortunately don't, but what are you not telling us here?

This thread is about the abused people at bad sams and who abused them.

We all have sympathy to the "other" abused in the world but right now ALEA needs to focus on the perps from bad sams.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 11 2008,3:38 pm

Two Bears.... :clap:

and a

!!!

I'm happy to hear that YOU would get involved. :thumbsup:

QUOTE

What would you do, run to your car and think "hey Two Bears has the kids back" and leave without helping the kid?

No way!! *grumbles under breath*

QUOTE

As far as the "other abused people" goes I would love to know their names but unfortunately don't, but what are you not telling us here?

What am I not telling you?

You already answered that in the first quote I have in this post that you replied to me with...."What would you do...." and then you go on to imply that you might think you KNOW what I would do. I didn't "speculate" on what you would or would not do in the situation I described....I ONLY ASKED.

It is rare for people in our society to get involved at all in the situation that I described. Our society doesn't like to "get involved," especially if it could be a family matter. Yet, being abusive to another human being is a learned behavior that is conscious choice people make.

These "perps" are not unusual or even rare. What do we expect our young adults to be learning and choosing to do?

We need to start educating people about abuse.

Posted by AL101 on Sep. 11 2008,5:16 pm

Good Sam is a facility that is licensed by the Dept of Human Services. Licensed facilities are required to do background studies on all staff and volunteers who have contact with residents. They will not pass a background study with this on their record, therefore, they will not be able to work in the field again.

Posted by Tinker on Sep. 11 2008,8:50 pm

In the state of Minnesota. Background studies do not cross state lines, therefore they could get a job in another state. :angry:

Posted by busybee on Sep. 12 2008,3:32 am

Tink, are you saying that if someone from another state came here to work in a nursing home or went to another state to work in a nursing home, if that person had been found guilty by the "state" of abusing a vulnerable adult, no one would be able to find out?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 12 2008,9:09 am

(Tinker @ Sep. 11 2008,8:50 pm)

QUOTE

In the state of Minnesota. Background studies do not cross state lines, therefore they could get a job in another state. :angry:

Correct me if I'm wrong...
but I thought that depended on the severity and type of deficiency?
And of course, who is doing the research at the State and how thorough their research is. Ya know like, is the researcher on a deadline, is it heading into the weekend, is a hoiday approaching, are they in a hurry to get home..anything that would cause them to hurry their duties and perhaps overlook important details.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 12 2008,9:28 am

(busybee @ Sep. 10 2008,5:31 pm)

QUOTE

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO THE PERPS ARE, THEN MAYBE THEY WILL NOT EVER GET A JOB IN A FIELD LIKE THIS AGAIN.

WAS IT YOU ?

If there's anyone against abuse and speaks out about it on this forum...most know it's me. You're crawling up the wrong tree! :;):

Perhaps you should take your bitterness, anger, and defeatest attitude and start a campaign to educate the public on abuses. Take your voice and make it heard where laws can be changed.
Further, the GS abuses are unlike any heard of by the State and by Albert Lea. We're talking the most vulnerable of the vulnerable. These adults do not have a voice WE are their advocates. So unlike abuses that take place everyday where most domestic abuse victims do have a voice and can use it the moment abuse shows its face but for unknown reasons don't, the GS victims didn't have that luxury. That is what makes this case DIFFERENT from others. Abuses against the voiceless and weak and vulnerable are so despicable because it shows premeditation.
Abuse is wrong against anyone. But you need to voice your feelings to those who can really make a difference for you...the law makers.

Posted by Botto 82 on Sep. 12 2008,9:48 am

(MADDOG @ Sep. 10 2008,4:31 pm)

QUOTE

Two Beers

I used to know a gal we called "two drink Pam." :rofl:

Big sasquatch-looking thing?

Posted by Alfy Packer on Sep. 12 2008,10:17 am

And I knew a Slo-Gin Tess, but what does that have to do with abuse of residents at Good Sam.

I've been told that one of the girls is trying to study nursing and continues to work as a care giver. Another one is attending school out of state. I know nothing about the others. Kids do dumb things and most tend to grow up to be adults that look back with regret on those mistakes. Not an excuse or a reason for not taking action on the abuse, but a reason for pursuing prudence with respect to these juveniles. However this is not just about these girls, its also about Good Samaritan Albert Lea.

Posted by Tinker on Sep. 12 2008,11:45 am

Busybee -

I do believe so. Especially, if the case of abuse is found to be 'substantiated' by the investigating team but there are no criminal charges filed. They would not pass a background check here but would in say Iowa. There are many cases that involve abuse but that are not filed criminally, these individuals are barred from working in the field here. Let's say the individual moved here from Texas, staff run the background check on the Minnesota address, if there was something from Texas it wouldn't show up unless they check Texas, too. Which I believe Minnesota only checks Minnesota. Hope I didn't muddy the water with my explanation.... I get a little long winded sometimes.

Posted by AL101 on Sep. 12 2008,12:31 pm

BGS checks are actully run by SSN.

Posted by Grandma G on Sep. 12 2008,1:37 pm

Alfy I know we have all made mistakes, but this isn't one to say "they will grow out of". If you touch a child or an older adult is there any difference? They are both victims and I feel the resulting action given to these "gals" SHOULD follow them the rest of their lives. If someone molests or touches a victim, that crime/conviction follows them all their lives, should it be different for doing the same to older adults. They need to be put on the registry just like the others have been.

My father was at GS, about 19 years ago, and one day when I came to visit him, he told me they were going to spank him, his mind was very mixed up at that time and I thought if it was said the girls out there were just kidding. I told the nurse at his station that they shouldn't joke like that with my dad, cause he really was afraid. BUT now I wonder what really was going on?? I pray nothing like this happened to my dad.

Posted by Whiskero on Sep. 12 2008,2:52 pm

Grandma G., I agree totally with you.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Sep. 12 2008,5:09 pm

Grandma G., what you say is true. What I am getting at is to date the focus has been only on the kids. However, for this to have gotten to the point it has, I think it warrants a good look at the nursing home as well. I worry that the attitude didn't start with the kids but may have been past down to them through the system. As for the kids, a lifetime is a long time to be labeled, as a predator if some of those caught were not involved repeatedly in the abuse. I don't know enough, and I think that goes for most who have commented on this topic. However, I don't like what I've heard about the abuse nor am I condoning anything that these kids did. However, I am remembering stupid things I did as a dumb kid that gratefully people allowed me an opportunity to grow up without being stigmatized by my actions. At the risk of sounding sexist I don't understand girls, in as much as I never had sisters or daughters, but I also wonder if this type of unprincipled behavior is anything that anyone can out grow. That leaves me with the hope that they can and I would like to see them be given an opportunity for it, if it is warranted.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 12 2008,7:17 pm

Most of the childish things we do as youngsters do not affect the well-being or emotional or physcial health of another.

These girls chose to perform criminal acts on another human being. They chose the victims and they chose the style of criminal conduct.

This IS SUBSTANCIATED by the State.

They need to be punished accordingly. Childish act or no childish act. Zero tolerance as far as abuse is concerned. They need to have their names publicized and face the public court. There is simply no explanation or excuse for what they did.
If their parents had any integrity at all, instead of just clout/and or money, they would make these girls face the consequences instead of cover for them. What lesson is there to be learned from that??

By the way, I heard it was announced on KATE yesterday that the county prosecuting attorney is NOT going to file any charges.

I rest my case.

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 12 2008,8:17 pm

I agree with you Alfy.

Posted by Grandma G on Sep. 12 2008,11:32 pm

Are the adult children of the abused older person going to just let this slide? I sure wouldn't if I knew this had happened to my parents. I haven't heard the report, but I am really pi??ed off if this is correct! What is wrong with this world. I better end this or you will read bad words coming from my mouth. :angry:

Posted by Spidey on Sep. 13 2008,12:05 am

I do not entirely agree with you Alfy. What these girls did was a little more than a stupid teenage miss-hap, prank, or mistake. These acts were premeditated, vicious, brutal, and to be honest ... kind of frightening. Especially since they stated they did this for "fun".

The term of the sentence should be life as far as them taking care of children, elders, or anyone for that matter. Being labeled a sexual predator should be based on each individual and re-evaluated every ten years.

I also hope the children of the abused pursue this. What a shame some of those residents had to live out the rest of their lives being abused. Completely unforgivable.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 13 2008,6:19 am

QUOTE

Perhaps you should take your bitterness, anger, and defeatest attitude and start a campaign to educate the public on abuses. Take your voice and make it heard where laws can be changed.

I don't have bitterness, anger or a defeatist attitude.

On the contrary, it's disappointment, sadness and fear. Our society, which our community is a part of, continues to fail by not educating and enabling abuse of "anyone" who is vulnerable. We are lacking stricter policies, appropriate & timely responses to abuse and often neglect to follow through on accountability and harsher penalties for this type of behavior.

I plan on attending the Candlelight Vigil on Thursday, October 16th to remember those who have lost their lives or been injured through domestic violence and those who continue to live in abuse. It's a time to show support for STOPPING VIOLENCE in this community. If anyone wants more info....just ask.

QUOTE

Further, the GS abuses are unlike any heard of by the State and by Albert Lea.

I find it "unique" that Freeborn County has had 3 domestic abuse murders in the past 7 years. That's horrible considering the population size of this county!

Abuse is abuse. Everyone who is abused is vulnerable because the abuser uses all necessary measures to have power & control over their victim(s). Most abusers believe they can not live without their victim(s) supply. That is why an abuser becomes a better liar, manipulator, con artist, and can even "play out" being a victim better than the actual victim when caught. Doing this can get them out of trouble, with the law, family, friends and their victim. They make promises to be better and they are very convincing, but they truly don't change. Instead the abuse gradually begins again. Each time this happens, the abuse gets worse. The need for power and control gets stronger. If a victim is able to get away from an abuser, the abuser will find another person to victimize.

QUOTE

We're talking the most vulnerable of the vulnerable. These adults do not have a voice WE are their advocates.

Every person who is ABUSED deserves to be advocated for. Whether they are one day old or 100 years old, no matter their economic status, where they live, education, abilities or lack there of and health status.

QUOTE

So unlike abuses that take place everyday where most domestic abuse victims do have a voice and can use it the moment abuse shows its face but for unknown reasons don't, the GS victims didn't have that luxury.

"Victim blaming." You see...that's how your 'Good Sam Perps' get by with this kind of crap. I don't know of one person (child, female or male adult) who waves their arms in the air (if able), hops up and down, (if capable) and uses their loudest shouting voice (recognizable words or babbling none sense) in hopes to attract an abuser to choose them as their victim instead of someone else!

Unknown reasons for an articulate person to not use their voice to expose an abuser....I could provide you with a detailed list, but what it all boils down to is...FEAR & LACK OF SUPPORT.

QUOTE

That is what makes this case DIFFERENT from others. Abuses against the voiceless and weak and vulnerable are so despicable because it shows premeditation.

Approximately, 98%-99% of all abuse is premeditated. Abusing another person is a choice. Instead people still buy into the frequently used excuse spoken by abusers, victims, witnesses and the general "gossip" of the public...such as; "He or she was just having a bad day. They're under a lot of pressure & stress at work. Their parent abused them. My dad/mom abused me. They snapped. I just lost it. He/She just knows how to push my buttons. She/He wouldn't stop crying. They were late coming home. If I only would have come home 15 minutes sooner. I lost control. He/She lost control. I don't remember. She/He doesn't even remember. They only do it when they are drunk or doing drugs. I was too drunk/drugged up, I blacked out. He/She was cheating on him/her. She/He was having an affair. These kinds of things happen when people separate or are in the process of divorcing. He left me and I acted that way because I am hurt. She kicked me out and won't let me see the kids. She/He just hasn't grown up yet. They have a lot of growing up left to do. That's typical behavior at this age...stupidity, hormones, part of growing up."
Approximately, 1%-2% of people have a mental disorder in which they act out abusive behaviors at others, impulsively. That means when they abuse it is at random, not directed at any particular person, not at any particular time, without any particular reason.

It is more common for an abusive person to have a personality disorder, such as bi-polar, anti-social behavioral disorder, and narcissism.

I don't think that you and I disagree as much as you seem to assume we do. Is it possible that we might disagree if you believe there is "excusable abuse" due to the faultiness of a victim. There's a whole world of people out there that believe some people are more "worthy" of sympathy, compassion, understanding, support & abuser accountability through the legal system. I am one who believes there is NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE.

Good Sam may be a business, yet it is also the HOME of it's residents. Therefore, it has the same criteria as any other domestic abuse situation. I tend to view this more from that angle than the business angle. The fact that there might not be sufficient evidence to pursue the abuser(s) criminally is common. By no means do I agree with that at all!

QUOTE

But you need to voice your feelings to those who can really make a difference for you...the law makers.

I'm the one who makes the difference in my life.

I have the right to voice (write) my thoughts & knowledge on here, just the same as you do. It may not make sense to you, but there might be someone reading this forum thread who it could.

I have been to the school of hard knocks when it comes to abuse. While I agree it would be wonderful to have stricter laws and sentencing for abusers, I have yet to meet a "lawmaker" who has prevented, manipulated, distorted facts, minimized, ignored, refused to believe or do their best to help my children and I be safe from an abuser. I can not say the same about some who interpret those laws.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 13 2008,6:30 am

QUOTE

Zero tolerance as far as abuse is concerned. They need to have their names publicized and face the public court. There is simply no explanation or excuse for what they did.

QUOTE

By the way, I heard it was announced on KATE yesterday that the county prosecuting attorney is NOT going to file any charges.

I know I've put this emoticon on here before because I didn't like knowing where this was heading. I wish I could pretend I didn't just read what I read. Predictable.... :hairpull:

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 13 2008,9:28 am

THIS IS BULL$HIT IF THERE IS NO CHARGES

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 13 2008,9:57 am

BusyBee,
We do agree that abuse is WRONG.
No matter WHO the victim.
That is NOT the point I was attempting to make regarding this GS case.

The victims here in the GS case could not speak up to anyone at anytime and if they tried/could, no one would believe them and would chalk it up to their dementia.
That is the difference.
This GS case IS NOT a domestic abuse case.
That is another difference.
I am sorry for your enduring what you have. No one should EVER have to be exposed to abuses.

I am glad you are attending a vigil. It is a wonderful opportunity to gather and support one another and demonstrate against the wrongs that have been committed.

I for one intend to bombard my Congressmen and Senators with letters demanding change. I intend to phone my Congressmen and Senators and demand that we initiate a ZERO TOLERANCE policy in this state.
I intend to demand that the abuses that took place at GS can NEVER happen to another human being. And demand that these types of cases be PROSECUTED and not covered up.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 13 2008,10:38 am

(Two Bears @ Sep. 13 2008,9:28 am)

QUOTE

THIS IS BULL$HIT IF THERE IS NO CHARGES

Unless I missed something Two Bears, Santorini seems to be the only one who has heard there won't be any charges at this point. I would have thought that either or both KAAL TVRochester or the Tribune would have also been told something by now.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 13 2008,12:44 pm

QUOTE

THIS IS BULL$HIT IF THERE IS NO CHARGES

It is...it is! :angry:

QUOTE

The victims here in the GS case could not speak up to anyone at anytime and if they tried/could, no one would believe them and would chalk it up to their dementia.

True!

Just as a woman can be labeled as crazy or vindictive, so no one believes them. A teenager can be labeled a immature and rebellious. An abuser can be labeled as the same person who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

There is NO AUTOMATIC luxury of belief granted to any victim of abuse/violence, unless of course they catch the perp in the act and the victim has physical evidence to back up their "accusations." Short of being murdered, it's a hell of a fight for justice for any real victim of abuse. I am NOT asking for sympathy. I am stating the FACTS.

Others with a voice at Good Sam did not speak up for the victims! :angry:

WHY?

They didn't HELP them and RESPOND IMMEDIATELY. :angry:

WHY?

There were TOO MANY people that knew and did NOTHING until it was too late for any type of "evidence" or "memory recall" of the victims or witnesses to make accurate statements about the abuse. :angry:

WHY?

I doubt Good Sam teaches that behavior to it's employees, but rather subtly reinforces what society has already been teaching by trying to contain the "problems" with-in the facility, as does the state. WHY?

I do not disagree that change is necessary in the laws & sentencing, but it is also necessary that we WAKE up and stop expecting others in the legal system to do the "right" thing. It's NOT HAPPENING!

I encourage you to call...that's awesome! Use your voice as you best see fit. I will use my voice to attempt to educate anyone who cares to listen, including lawmakers.

However, the problem often isn't the lawmakers, laws or the sentencing guidelines, it's those who investigate and interpret the laws that fail victims.

It's friends, caretakers, co-workers, family, ceo's, etc...people who KNOW the victims and their vulnerability that fail the victims first. We also need to acknowledge that problem and address it. People fear getting involved and when did we become a society where when we have first hand knowledge of a victim being abused that it's best not to get involved? And where are abusers learning that they can get away with their crimes....from many, not just a prosecuting attorney or lawmakers.

You and I may share a zero tolerance policy opinion on abuse, but most people do not. In order to implement REAL change, we have to be a society prepared and educated on how to recognize abuse and stand up to abusers and all the people who enable their behavior.

Lawmakers can create any new law, but if people don't do what's RIGHT and MORAL in abusive situations, we will continue to go down the same path, over and over.

QUOTE

I intend to demand that the abuses that took place at GS can NEVER happen to another human being.

QUOTE

And demand that these types of cases be PROSECUTED and not covered up.

Unless you know me....you don't know my abuser. (Please...if you do, if anyone on here does...don't share that information) Respect my right to privacy here and the potential negative impact that could have on my children & I.

That right there could be the reason for the "cover up" at Good Sam. To protect the victims, not the abusers. I am only speaking about the release of names, not the fact that criminal prosecution was not sought. That is wrong!

Posted by Mamma on Sep. 14 2008,6:34 am

I think the big announcement on KATE was made by some woman who called in to gripe about something else and go around to GS before she hung up.

Posted by Brian NIelsen on Sep. 14 2008,9:04 am

This is not Brian, but I am not his computer. Interesting blog about this on KAAL's site, even one of the girls been on apparently ... may want to check it out.

Posted by peachtart on Sep. 14 2008,10:10 am

how do you find the blog at kaal

Posted by Brian NIelsen on Sep. 14 2008,11:22 am

TILL not Brian, but My mistake.. It originally came from the kaal story.. it is on Topix.com.. here is the link...

< http://www.topix.com/forum/state/mn/T6D5HPN75SO647CQC#comments >

The title is: Good Samaritan Society Care Center Faces Allegation of Abuse

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 14 2008,12:03 pm

Interesting? I see the timeline.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,6:34 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 13 2008,10:38 am)

QUOTE

(Two Bears @ Sep. 13 2008,9:28 am)

QUOTE

THIS IS BULL$HIT IF THERE IS NO CHARGES

Santorini did NOT hear it. READ MY POST!

I was TOLD by a co-worker.
This co-worker is the one that heard it on KATE. Thurs.

And if he is NOT going file any charges there will be no reason for the paper or news to pick it up.
Because in essence, there is no news.
It just goes away.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,6:45 pm

Busy Bee,

There is no comparison.
None.
No matter how you try to justify your cases.
You had a choice. You could have walked away, gone into hiding, gone to family, shelters, if no one believes you keep going until you find the one person who does.
GS residents could not. Don't even try to justify it. I am sorry that this has become your life. For your sake I hope you can find a way to find peace and forgiveness so you can free yourself. I truely am sorry, I am not being sarcastic by any means.
And no I do NOT understand abuse.

If ANY man, boyfriend, husband EVER threatened to even hit me they had better take their best shot cause it's the ONLY one their gonna get!

Posted by Whatever! on Sep. 14 2008,6:53 pm

I have heard from a source within the court house that there will NOT be charges against the ones involved. Mainly because the county attorney doesn't believe that there is enough evidence against the the girls and apparently (one guy), not sure if I heard that correctly?

The only way to make the CA change his mind is to make the voice of AL be heard.... He needs to hear from the victim's families and others out there that this will not be tolerated! Make the phone calls.. fill his answering machine, load his email! Remind him of the confessions...

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,7:03 pm

Whatever,

Thanks for the update.
And I will call.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,7:06 pm

Question:

Why doesn't the County PA ask for some help?

This case has to be way out of his league.

Can't he contact the Attny. General's office and get assistance with this case?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,7:35 pm

(Whatever! @ Sep. 14 2008,6:53 pm)

QUOTE

After re-reading your post I was left with the question; since when has having enough evidence been an issue for the County PA

File charges, use whatever evidence you have, take it to court, don't settle out of court and let a jury decide, I'll bet the girl(s) will start talking then, once they have to face the reality of what they have done.

This case is too big for Freeborn County and Albert Lea to just brush under the rug.

As I stated before, the County PA needs help with this one. I don't believe anyone in the county/ town is qualified to handle a case like this. Plus, I thought the County Attny's job was to help protect us. How does this protect us??

I don't want to hear or read about another drunk driving, or robbery, or fight or anything that goes on again, because if THIS goes unpunished it just sends the message that in Freeborn County anything goes.
It's a free-for-all and no one cares.
Easier to just let it go away.

Posted by Krusty on Sep. 14 2008,8:37 pm

They have the kids cell phones with pictures they took of what they did. I think that those pictures could make the case against them. I was told that some were under 18 and that is why they might not charge them. Otherwise it doesn't make sence why charges haven't been filed.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 14 2008,9:21 pm

I "heard" the same thing about the cell phones and pics.
I also "heard" not all were underage.
But what gets me is that the abuse was substanciated by the State.
Apparantly that doesn't matter.

Message to all is to be afraid...be very afraid.

Do NOT put relatives or anybody in ANY facility where you have to depend on the service and management of others for their basic needs. Because they don't care and neither does the law.

They are understaffed to begin with...
Hire under age...under-trained staff...
Department heads are too concerned with desk work and paper work that the "human" interest has lost its place in the line-up. (As evident by the # of lights flashing in the resident rooms ALL THE TIME and NO ONE answers them)!
And most of all...no one has a work ethic anymore.
Everything is strictly about $$$$$!
If $$$ is your driving force you do not deserve to work in healthcare because you lack the motivation to care.

I am so PO'D I can hardly contain myself.
This is SO WRONG. SO blatantly, IN OUR FACE WRONG!!

Posted by scoobydoo on Sep. 14 2008,9:34 pm

One thing that we need to remember is that not all nursing homes are bad, Santorini. There are, of course, a few a$$holes that work in nursing homes, that should not be allowed to work with any vulnerable adult, as we have seen with the GS case. What these girls have done to the residents is terrible! I completely feel that they should have charges pressed against them....However, the facility in general is a very good facility, filled with many staff members who care a lot about the residents...I see it first hand at GS and I do believe that there are people that work there that are not in the health care field just for the money...Anyone that has worked in a nursing home knows that the pay isn't all that great...and yes, very under staffed..

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 14 2008,10:29 pm

(Santorini @ Sep. 14 2008,9:21 pm)

QUOTE

Good thing you are not the county attorney. You seem to like to state things as facts without much evidence. If not charges are filed, I would think Craig is going to have a hard time getting re elected. But I am willing to give him the time to best prepare in order to stand a better chance of getting convections.

As for what someone who works at the courthouse said, if they are really in a position to know what you claim, they should lose their job. But my guess is that it is someone without real knowledge.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 14 2008,10:31 pm

And I have a loved one who several years ago was being cared for in the Angels Wing, so believe me, it is easy to get upset. But i want justice.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 14 2008,11:14 pm

Santorini....I have NOT said it is EXACTLY the same! It's YOU who keeps telling me that's what I am telling YOU!

Similarities...most certainly!

Face it, Good Sam is a society within a society. What people learn from society outside of Good Sam will trickle into the society at Good Sam.

Look at how you react to my postings about domestic violence, you minimize it compared to what has happened at Good Sam. Is that something that benefits "your case" or is it simply your judgment of others who have been abused? What I interpret is you continue to prove my point that for some reason you believe you are better able to determine which victims are capable of fixing everything all by themselves and who is not, when in fact it sounds like you don't know. You go as far as to say....

QUOTE

If ANY man, boyfriend, husband EVER threatened to even hit me they had better take their best shot cause it's the ONLY one their gonna get!

What about the two adult women who were murdered by their spouses in Freeborn County with in the past 7 years? They had a choices, and they could've....should've...etc.... Are you saying that because they didn't have Alzheimer's, they didn't do enough to try to keep themselves safe and take care of their "own problems" and use their "luxuries" to not be killed?

Good for you that you would only give an abuser one chance....I hope you never have that experience. No one wants that.

I assume you are talking about physical abuse with physical evidence. I am curious though, how would you prevent him from threatening you again or abusing you again? What if he did and there wasn't any physical evidence? What if it was a form of sexual assault, with no evidence, no witnesses? What if there were witnesses but they were too afraid of your abuser to tell?

I don't disagree with you at how horrific the abuse is/was at Good Sam, for the residents & their families. I don't disagree that what happened is criminal. I don't disagree that the residents this happened to are more vulnerable because of their health.

However, I also understand the system and how it works because I have lived it. I have fought tooth and nail for myself and my children and it takes a heck of a lot to get something done! Just because a victim doesn't have Alzheimer's or live at Good Sam doesn't mean that victim won't have the door slammed in their face, over and over again as far as getting criminal prosecution of an abuser, arrest of an abuser, an accurate report written by law enforcement about an abuser's actions and behaviors.

I commend your commitment to the residents at Good Sam. I encourage YOU, if you want to get something done, to look at the whole picture, instead of just one piece of how our county responds to criminal abusers.

I can guarantee you that if criminal justice isn't served for 15 residents at Good Sam, you are also going to find that justice hasn't been served for 15 victims of criminal abuses outside of Good Sam.

That's how we think differently. I KNOW this is NOT UNUSUAL, not because I want sympathy for what I have been through compared to the victims at Good Sam, but because I have been there.

Posted by Botto 82 on Sep. 14 2008,11:29 pm

It's likely that the CA is weighing his evidence against an already strained budget. Somebody probably already laid it out for him - unless the case is rock-solid, don't bring it to trial - too expensive.

The DWI money machine keeps cranking out the $$$. Stick with that. :frusty:

Posted by busybee on Sep. 15 2008,7:52 am

QUOTE

Somebody probably already laid it out for him - unless the case is rock-solid, don't bring it to trial - too expensive.

Who would that "somebody" be?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 15 2008,4:42 pm

(Botto 82 @ Sep. 14 2008,11:29 pm)

QUOTE

You bet we have an already strained budget.
Whose fault it that??

So, in other words, when a case such as this comes along just let it be cause it's going to cost too much??

Wrong!

There is FEAR there.
And the fear is because of the big money lawyers the CA would have to face if he did press charges.
This is why as I stated in a previous post, he needs help with this one.
Don't kid yourselves.
This case is about $$$$$!

If this case would have involved perps who were black, hispantic, or male they would have been charged as adults with the names and pictures released.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 15 2008,4:48 pm

(gurrah @ Sep. 14 2008,10:29 pm)

QUOTE

(Santorini @ Sep. 14 2008,9:21 pm)

QUOTE

Please enlighten me as to what you are referring??
Exactly what facts did I state without evidence??

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 15 2008,5:13 pm

(scoobydoo @ Sep. 14 2008,9:34 pm)

QUOTE

I AM in the health care field.
I DO work with the aged and vulnerable.
I DO have a degree.
I AM board certified.
I DO see first hand.
I work everyday with the vulnerable population.
They depend on us, all the diciplines, to protect them.
I would never put a relative in a nursing home, because no matter how the facilities try...they can never be a home. It's an institution.
Did I enter this dicipline for the money? Never, not when it comes to health care. It's a calling. Money is secondary.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 15 2008,5:17 pm

Now, would everybody quit beating up on me!!

I am so disgusted by this case and the lack of anything being done as well as the lack of updates.
Everything so far is speculative.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 15 2008,6:13 pm

(Santorini @ Sep. 12 2008,7:17 pm)

QUOTE

By the way, I heard it was announced on KATE yesterday that the county prosecuting attorney is NOT going to file any charges.

I rest my case.

Here is a good example of something that should be researched before posting.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 15 2008,6:17 pm

Santorini,

Are you in a position to contact the County Attorney's office and arrange an appointment with Mr. Nelson, Mr. Walker or (crud...I can't remember her name....is it McBride?) to express your concerns?

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 15 2008,8:02 pm

Gurrah, Santorini didn't say that. He responded to me on that when he said:

QUOTE

Santorini did NOT hear it. READ MY POST!

I was TOLD by a co-worker.
This co-worker is the one that heard it on KATE. Thurs.

Whatever, sorry.

You come on here and make one post on a "I heard" statement. That isn't going to carry any credibility with posters here.

QUOTE

I have heard from a source within the court house that there will NOT be charges against the ones involved. Mainly because the county attorney doesn't believe that there is enough evidence against the the girls and apparently (one guy), not sure if I heard that correctly?

There must just be some confusion here. Either not meaning what they type or not recalling who said what.

Regardless. After Santorini's post,

QUOTE

I can understand where they are coming from a little better. My Grandmother was Activities Director at a home for quite a few years. She is now in the nursing home where my Mother has worked for many more years as an Activity Coordinator, so when talking to mom, I can understand what you mean.

Gurrah,

QUOTE

If not charges are filed, I would think Craig is going to have a hard time getting re elected.

I doubt that he's even the least bit worried about that.

When was the last time he was even opposed in the election? I can't recall.

Posted by The Coach on Sep. 15 2008,8:30 pm

< Attorney General's Office to offer help reviewing Good Sam allegations >

QUOTE

The county attorney said the Attorney General’s Office contacted his office to offer help, and he will be seeking a consultation with one of their specialists.

“If they’ve got some assistance to offer or different eyes, I’ll be happy to take their assistance, as I’ve done in the past,” Nelson said. “I think it’s unwise for a small town and a small county attorney not to use all the assets out there.”

He said he anticipates he will have charges formed at best by the end of this week or early next week.

Posted by Spidey on Sep. 15 2008,8:43 pm

QUOTE

“If they’ve got some assistance to offer or different eyes, I’ll be happy to take their assistance, as I’ve done in the past,” Nelson said. “I think it’s unwise for a small town and a small county attorney not to use all the assets out there.”

I wonder if he really said that ... or if the paper got it wrong. Either way ... it's funny! :rofl:

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 15 2008,8:45 pm

Gawd, I didn't catch that until now.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 15 2008,9:54 pm

He said he anticipates he will have charges formed at best by the end of this week or early next week.

The Albert Lea Police Department conducted a separate investigation of the case, but has not yet released its report.

To quotes from the story in the paper. So much for I know a guy who knows a guy that heard something somewhere.

Posted by scoobydoo on Sep. 15 2008,10:22 pm

Santorini,
I completely agree that a nursing home could never be a "home" to most residents..it is not their real home. It is a facility that they live in because they are not able to care for themselves...But you might be surprised to know that many residents consider GS their home because overall it is a good facility.
Thank goodness not everyone thinks the way you do, or you and I would both be without a job...
By the way, I DO work at GS and I DO see first hand what a great facility it is...
What happened was very, very sad...But it was a few girls that caused this problem, not the facility as a whole...

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 15 2008,10:51 pm

Scooby,

I agree with you. The women, not girls, need to be held accountable, but Good Sam is a good place.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 16 2008,8:14 am

"small county attorney" :oops:

Posted by busybee on Sep. 16 2008,8:21 am

QUOTE

When was the last time he was even opposed in the election? I can't recall.

I know it has been at least 17 years. Anyone else?

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 16 2008,4:22 pm

QUOTE

Two of the four teenagers were adults at the time the incidents occurred, and two were 17. They are all now 18 or older. The Tribune knows the names of the teens and has even contacted some parents. The editors have chosen to wait until charges are filed to decide whether to print the names. < Tribune >

Why would the Tribune even print that? Trying to keep those skeletons preserved?

Posted by busybee on Sep. 16 2008,4:40 pm

What good is knowing the names going to do anyone anyway?

Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 16 2008,4:54 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 16 2008,4:40 pm)

QUOTE

What good is knowing the names going to do anyone anyway?

Some people will harass these girls. They have been accused not trialed and convicted.

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 16 2008,5:48 pm

Yes they will

It's amazing that no ones touches on the real issue here. We're pairing the very young with the very old and it's what's causing the problem.

Sadly many of the old folks at Sams have devastating brain diseases, are at the end of life and many will die relatively soon to be replaced by others. This has got to be one tough job and should be left to professionals like nurses and should be well paid positions. The stress of theses jobs takes its toll, as it would on any of us, and it's why families leave their members there. We don't want to pay much, so homes like Sams hire very young women/girls because obviously it's a lower paid position. It shouldn't be. Young girls or teens are not what you want in these positions. These are positions that deal with depression, death, disease, helplessness and should be relatively well paid.

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 16 2008,7:04 pm

(GEOKARJO @ Sep. 16 2008,4:54 pm)

QUOTE

(busybee @ Sep. 16 2008,4:40 pm)

QUOTE

What good is knowing the names going to do anyone anyway?

Some people will harass these girls. They have been accused not trialed and convicted.

Who cares, some have admitted guilt.

Thats guilty to me. No trial needed !

Lock'em up

Posted by Two Bears on Sep. 16 2008,7:24 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 16 2008,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

Why would the Tribune even print that? Trying to keep those skeletons preserved?

Prolly because of the higher crust parents, grandparents said so.....

You know dog gone well that if any other adult had done these crimes your names would have been plastered all over the news the next day. Its too bad that the paper and LAW have protected these names from the public. Must be too much pressure from with IN to keep it quiet.

Its got to be public information for the over 18 women and the police reports should be available to us as well as the media as the tribune has been aware of who they are for a while now.

Posted by Whatever! on Sep. 16 2008,7:55 pm

I apoligize for my mistake earlier... I was just so heated on the topic after reading the charges... Then to hear (from what I thought to be a realiable source) that there were going to be NO charges... I jumped the gun...

Again.. I apologize! Glad to hear the County Att. is going to get some help on this one

I pray for all involved... the victims and their families.

Posted by Scarlet on Sep. 16 2008,8:21 pm

(Saggin'Pants @ Sep. 16 2008,5:48 pm)

QUOTE

Hmmm, no one had to pay me to properly to respect my grandma's peers.

Also, I know plenty of young people capable of taking care of elders.....and plenty of older people with less patience.

Good Sam's pays well, for not having a degree if the money was the issue for these girls. I think they are just spoiled, rotten, unloved brats!

They deserve no mercy. If an 18 year old man should register as a sex offender for having consenting adult sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, then yes, these young women should have to register. I am willing to bet the adult victims did not consent to having fingers rammed up their orafices or spit plopped in their mouths!!!!! ( I can't go on, you all know the story)

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 16 2008,8:24 pm

(Two Bears @ Sep. 16 2008,6:04 pm)

QUOTE

(GEOKARJO @ Sep. 16 2008,4:54 pm)

QUOTE

(busybee @ Sep. 16 2008,4:40 pm)

QUOTE

What good is knowing the names going to do anyone anyway?

Some people will harass these girls. They have been accused not trialed and convicted.

Who cares, some have admitted guilt.

Thats guilty to me. No trial needed !

Lock'em up

Yes lock them all up even though some of them might not be guilty of the accusations. :crazy:

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 16 2008,8:54 pm

Newbie, Who are you protecting??

You know who they are too, don't ya?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 16 2008,8:57 pm

As I stated in a previous post;
If the perps were black, hispanic, or male no one would be having this discussion!

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 16 2008,8:59 pm

(Whatever! @ Sep. 16 2008,7:55 pm)

QUOTE

I pray for all involved... the victims and their families.

The source I heard it from initially heard it on KATE.

Perhaps, someone put the pressure on to DO something, therefore, something hopefully will get done.

Posted by Alfy Packer on Sep. 16 2008,9:18 pm

Rich kids don't work in nursing homes! It's hard enough to get rich kids to go and visit family who are in nursing homes. So Santorini lets knock off this rich kid stuff. What happened, happened and it appears that what ever the investigation thinks happened will be brought out shortly. It appears that there will be charges, and if there aren't charges there will have been a review by the state AG that should take the steam out of the cover up talk. There will be no winners hear when it is all done, what ever gets done.

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 16 2008,9:48 pm

(Santorini @ Sep. 16 2008,7:54 pm)

QUOTE

Newbie, Who are you protecting??

You know who they are too, don't ya?

Oh yes that's right, because I have a brain in my head and can think logically I have to be protecting someone. I don't even live in your town (Thank God). That report hasn't been substantiated by verifying schedules with the accusations, but you brainiacs must be omniscient because you all decided they are all guilty. :crazy:

Phone interviews are so the best way to conduct an investigation. :sarcasm:

Posted by countryboy on Sep. 16 2008,10:00 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 16 2008,4:40 pm)

QUOTE

What good is knowing the names going to do anyone anyway?

More so to protect the next victims ( to prevent them from working in this field again)

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,5:42 am

QUOTE

Who cares, some have admitted guilt.

Thats guilty to me. No trial needed !

Lock'em up

Admitting guilt means nothing in this case so far. There have been no charges filed and they have not entered into the criminal court system.

Even if charges are filed, that doesn't mean they'll automatically have a charge high enough (felony or gross mis) to put them in jail on a large enough bail amount to keep them there until court proceedings begin and through it's duration.

It puts my mind much more at ease with the Attorney General's Office being involved. If something can be charged and tried or plea bargained, they will make sure it gets done.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,5:54 am

QUOTE

As I stated in a previous post;
If the perps were black, hispanic, or male no one would be having this discussion!

Bull! The discussion would NOT be had at all because YOU wouldn't hear about it.

The ONLY reason you know about this is because of the report made public, otherwise you would known nothing about the behavior of those gals.

What type of criminal charges do you think is warranted here? Harassment charges? Sexual Abuse charges? Malicious Punishment charges? Assault?

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,6:08 am

QUOTE

More so to protect the next victims ( to prevent them from working in this field again)

And...how is that going to happen if they have not been charged of a crime yet?

Do people plan on following them around until something is done....if anything?

If they get charged criminally, I can guarantee if they are released on their own recognizances, the Judge will order something from the bench that they have no contact with vulnerable adults, nursing homes, or any employment field that requires care for persons who are vulnerable. He will most likely order something to that affect as part of the condition of their release.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,6:17 am

QUOTE

Newbie, Who are you protecting??

You know who they are too, don't ya?

Now why would you assume to think you have the right to ask that? Do you have FACTS to back up those types of questions?

If not, then there isn't any reason for you to post remarks like this.

Just recently you asked others to "back off." Maybe you could start sweeping your own doorstep too.

Posted by countryboy on Sep. 17 2008,6:50 am

(busybee @ Sep. 17 2008,6:08 am)

QUOTE

More so to protect the next victims ( to prevent them from working in this field again)

Right, problem is one of them is already working in another nursing home.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 17 2008,8:02 am

(busybee @ Sep. 17 2008,6:17 am)

QUOTE

Newbie, Who are you protecting??

You know who they are too, don't ya?

I stick to my statement if they were black, hispanic, or male charges would have been filed!

You'll see why, hopefully, soon!

Further,
read post #151 when I said why doesn't the country attorney get help from the Attny General!!!

Gee, guess somebody on this post has the right idea!!

Posted by Newbie on Sep. 17 2008,8:34 am

I really doubt the parents of these girls would condone the acts in any of the accusations. I'm sure most of these posts are heart wrenching to the families.
There is this thing called "free will" which people use quite often. It's a scientific fact the teenagers brains are not fully wired to predict distant outcomes of their actions most of the time. I think it's also true that many teenagers will lie to get out of trouble even if that means getting someone else in trouble.
Before Santorini breaks a finger trying to respond. :sarcasm:

I think it's only fair for the accusations to be substantiated so that the girls who are rightly accused can be held accountable for their actions.
I also find it unfair that any employee who had knowledge or claimed to have knowledge of this situation are not going to be held accountable for their part.
Aren't any of you upset that mandated reporters didn't report this and they still get to work in nursing homes. Why didn't they report if they knew what was going on?

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,10:15 am

QUOTE

You have all the answers.

Mr. Nelson rarely takes abuse cases to trial, Good Sam or not, he's a plea bargainer. It doesn't matter what color an abuser is, male or female. He simply doesn't like to try a case unless knows he can win...for sure.

So, it's an awesome thing that the Attorney General's Office offered their assistance. Hopefully everyone involved in the system will learn something, charges or not.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,10:28 am

QUOTE

Right, problem is one of them is already working in another nursing home.

And...you facts to back up that statement I assume?

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 17 2008,2:42 pm

Just an FYI:

Crime = "Every crime involves a wrongful act (actus reus)
specifically prohibited by the criminal law. For example, in the crime of battery, the actus reus consists in the striking or offensive touching of another person. Even the failure to take action can be considered a wrongful act, if the law imposes a duty to take action in a certain situation." Criminal Law and Procedure, second edition, John M. Scheb & John M. Scheb II (pg.4).

"In most cases the law requires that the wrongful act be accompanied by criminal intent (mens rea). Criminal intent does not refer to one's motive or reason for acting, but merely to one's having formed a mental purpose to act." Criminal Law and Procedure, second edition, John M. Scheb & John M. Scheb II (pg.4).

State v. Bey, 161 Me. 23,206A. 2d 413 (1965)
"this Court observed that assault and battery may become "high and aggravated in nature" by the presence of "circumstances of aggravation, such as great disparity between the ages and physical conditions of the parties, a difference in the sexes, indecent liberties or familiarities with a female, the purposeful infliction of shame and disgrace,..."...

State v. Rand, 156 Me. 81, 161 A. 2d 852 (1960)
..."What intention could the respondent have had other than an evil intention to indulge his own lustful desires?
By his indecent acts he violated the person and dignity of the child in a manner abhorrent to society."...

Cases cited: Criminal Law and Procedure, second edition
John M. Scheb & John M. Scheb II, chapter 6, Offenses Against Persons. Pg. 153.

..."Sexual contact " is defined as including the intentional touching of the victim's private parts or the intentional touching of the clothing covering the immediate area of the victim's intimate parts, if that intentional touching can reasonably be construed as being for the purpose of sexual arousal...Mich. Comp. Laws Ann 750.520a(k))1).

"Fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct involves sexual contact with another person involving force or coercion, OR where the actor knows or has reason to know that the victim is mentally incapable, mentally incapaciated, or physically helpless..." Source: Criminal Law and Procedure, second edition, John M. Scheb & John M. Scheb II, pg. 140.

Interesting read if one is willing to research.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 17 2008,5:47 pm

Santorini....been down this road already....looking up stuff to understand....for months I've been at this! It's helpful to look to information at Minnesota Sentencing Guidelines or look up crimes with MN statute #'s.

< Crim Sex Degrees >

< This should help >

You will really like the second one....

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 17 2008,6:34 pm

QUOTE

If an 18 year old man should register as a sex offender for having consenting adult sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, then yes, these young women should have to register.

Two wrongs don't make a right. We are confusing relationships we don't like with pedophilia. It's really sick what we've done in regards to demonizing young peoples relationships. When it comes to some drugs(the ones we don't like) and sexual predation, we've collectively lost our minds. That 18 year old mans life would be effectively ruined, for life. We've become some incredibly sick and self righteous curmudgeons.

Posted by Scarlet on Sep. 17 2008,8:13 pm

(Saggin'Pants @ Sep. 17 2008,6:34 pm)

QUOTE

If an 18 year old man should register as a sex offender for having consenting adult sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, then yes, these young women should have to register.

I do see your point. I do think that stat. rape thing is wrong...however I was just trying to say that is obviously nothing like this situation. This situation is clearly criminal and should be treated as such.

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 17 2008,8:26 pm

I'm not even 84 but wouldn't mind and bunch of teens touching my body.

Posted by Mamma on Sep. 17 2008,8:55 pm

Well since you're not old....we'll send a bunch of 84 years olds to touch you all over your little body. See if that still seems cute.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 18 2008,12:39 am

Posted by BestMommy on Sep. 18 2008,9:09 am

I personally think that maybe they should be checking into all the nursing homes and assisted living homes to make sure this isnt happen anywhere else. I have worked at an assisted living for almost five years in this town before i finally quit. I had made some good friends and basically found another family by taking care of the elderly. But i do have to say i was disgusted when the people in charge such as RNs, LPN's and especially the directors wouldnt do anything when we were the ones being touched, or physically abused. I think that there are proper ways of handling this and they would get their butts up to help. When they pay thousands of dollars for care each month just to live somewhere, well then they should definately be getting better help. I had a Uncle that lived out at good sams last year. He was on lots of diff meds and in his chart it said what he couldnt eat, well my grandma and i were visiting with him one day and they brought in his dinner and it was the food he couldnt eat! How hard is it to get to know your residents, or heck look in a chart. When we told her, she look in the chart and then chuckled and got him something different to eat. I still wonder to this day if maybe when we werent there for meals if they feed him what he wasnt suppose to eat. Maybe he would still be with us.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 18 2008,9:48 am

I agree with you Best Mommy.
Too much carelessness.
I think the State will be conducting inspections soon of all of them if they haven't started already.
It usually takes an incident at one facility to promp a sweep of all of them.

Posted by BestMommy on Sep. 18 2008,10:28 am

They should also do a mandatory drug test when first getting hired and then continue with random drug testing. Alot of these places will hire an employee, the employee will work for a few weeks or possibly months and then quit or like most get fired for not showing up.. after sometime they always seem to hire them back. I also believe that not just the nurse aides should get tested but the entire facility at random by someone higher then the boss of the building. Alot of problems lay within directors and supervisors. Heck i was never drug tested until this past year until a few residents narcotics went missing, and they never caught that person!

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 18 2008,12:08 pm

Again, I agree with you totally, BestMommy.
You've got it right.
I guess, those of us within this system and see the daily goings-on truely are in the know.
I've wondered about the drug testing too?!
Why these places don't require it. One would think that would be at the top of the hire list.

Posted by Lubie on Sep. 18 2008,12:52 pm

I work at Good Samaritan and I know that we provide good care to the residents!! Yes, this is horrible to go through....the pain for the families of the residents, families of the women (not girls) that committed the abuse, the residents!, and every staff person here. We have all been affected. I come to work every day and hold my head high because I am proud to be a part of this team and of Good Samaritan. BTW, we do require drug testing upon hiring and for other circumstances.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 18 2008,12:59 pm

(Lubie @ Sep. 18 2008,12:52 pm)

QUOTE

Please revise that.
SOME provide good care to the residents.
You're talking to some of us who have been on the inside at GS.

Is the drug testing ramdom or just upon hire?

Posted by Lubie on Sep. 18 2008,1:37 pm

Okay your'e right "some people provide good care" and I'll take it one more step and say the vast majority provide good care. This has been extremely painful for so many!!

As I stated: drug testing is required upon hire and under other specific circumstances. If you've been on the inside you will know how it works.

I will not get sucked into spitting matches on this forum...I am proud to be part of the Good Samaritan team, always have and always will be. End of my story and posts.

Posted by scoobydoo on Sep. 18 2008,3:05 pm

I'm with you, Lubie!
It is a good place to work..It gets old seeing people drag the facility down even more after what these "women" have done. It's not the facility as a whole that caused these problems..
If I would have EVER wittnessed a staff member abusing my residents in any way, shape or form, you bet it would have been reported immediately..And then some..!!!!

Posted by busybee on Sep. 18 2008,3:12 pm

What does drug testing have to do with this? :dunno:

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 18 2008,4:22 pm

QUOTE

BTW, we do require drug testing upon hiring and for other circumstances

And you're proud of that? All that means is that the responsible pot smokers get thrown out. Drink, do meth, coke or smack and it's all good. Those drugs don't stay in the system like pot. Drug testing means squat. Don't get caught up in the hype. Not all users are demons and the majority of everyone is on one drug or another. For a nation of druggies we sure demonize other druggies don't we.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 18 2008,6:08 pm

Standing back and looking at the big picture.

It would help restore confidence in Good Samaritan, if the County Attorney holds with a zero tolerance for abuse policy.

It would send a message that the proud people of this community including the good persons that run and work at Good Samaritan as well as the other Long Term Care Facilities. do not condone and do not hide and do not protect anyone who has committed sexual abuse against Alzheimers/Dementia residents as per the Office of Health facilities Complaints/Minn Dept of Health substantiation of such abuse.

We need to be strong and united.

This is a terrible thing that happened.

When terrible things happen we have to first acknowlege it, take responsiblity for it, and make sure there are safe guards in place for it never to happen again.

I personally believe the only way to achieve the above stated goals are to utilize the zero tolerance for abuse policy with swift, harsh action.

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 18 2008,6:13 pm

Devils in the details. Define sexual abuse in all its nuances. It appears these girls were just acting like bored teens and acting stupid.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 18 2008,8:43 pm

(Saggin'Pants @ Sep. 18 2008,6:13 pm)

QUOTE

Devils in the details. Define sexual abuse in all its nuances. It appears these girls were just acting like bored teens and acting stupid.

Read post 200.
Pretty well spells out sexual abuse.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 18 2008,11:23 pm

Read post 201...there's information directly related to the statutes based upon Minnesota Laws on definitions of crimes.

Does anyone have an idea of what would be charges based upon these statutes? That's about all the County Attorney and the Attorney General can go by. However the Judge always has the discretion to divert from the sentencing guidelines if he/she feels it is warranted.

If charges are brought, I hope that each family member is informed of their rights to prepare and have presented a victim impact statement on behalf of their family member and themselves.

I encourage these family members to go to the local Crime Victims Crisis Center and learn as much as they can about abuse. To contact the Attorney General's office. To contact the MN Sentencing Guidelines Commission. To look up how to write an effective victims impact statement.

If you want justice...you start here...hopefully there will be charges of some kind that will allow these family members to get involved and have a say! That's going to have the greatest impact...for now.

Posted by Lubie on Sep. 19 2008,6:57 am

Saggin Pants, who said anything about being proud of drug testing...it's required by law at many places of employment, not just in healthcare. That's just simple fact.

Posted by Santorini on Sep. 19 2008,9:02 am

Busy Bee, You're right. There are guidelines according to MN statutes., and many of those guidelines fall into the same category as other states.
There are also Federal guidelines and procedures the states have to follow.
However, the sites you added to your post previously were very generic. Pretty redundant info.
Definitions we don't need. Anyone who has worked in healthcare is made fully aware of the definitions upon hire.
You need to spread your wings and dig deeper.

BUT... Good advice Re: contacting the Attny. General and powers that be.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 19 2008,12:54 pm

Redundant info?

I thought we were talking about criminal charges. In order for criminal charges to be filed, the laws for this state must be broken by the definition sited from a Minnesota statute.

What does "knowing" the definitions upon hire have to do with anything?
Most anyone without an abusive mind set can see this is a crime, but whether or not it's a criminally chargeable crime by definition of a Minnesota statute is what the County Attorney (I would say all them, not just Mr. Nelson) have been trying to put together. At least that would be my hope in this case and any case of abuse.

Now....the Attorney General's office is getting involved to HELP. They have more pull than anyone at this point, so if any deviation from the statute "norm" is possible, that's where people need to push.

QUOTE

You need to spread your wings and dig deeper.

Well....why don't you just say what needs to be said? Tell me what I'm missing about the process of how criminals are charged? Wouldn't it be much simpler than leading me to do something you obviously appear to know, that I do not. I enjoy learning new facts.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 19 2008,10:22 pm

< Hmmm >

Posted by Ike on Sep. 20 2008,12:11 am

I heard that two of the girls involved in the abuse charges have since gone on to mankato state and while there they are working at a nursing home. Sure would be great if they released those names to prevent others from being abused.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,10:01 am

^^^Hearing something and knowing it for a fact is not the same thing...right?

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,10:04 am

I am very happy to hear that the Attorney General's office is getting involved....for sure.

Posted by menace616 on Sep. 21 2008,10:32 am

(Saggin'Pants @ Sep. 18 2008,4:22 pm)

QUOTE

BTW, we do require drug testing upon hiring and for other circumstances

Here we go again with your rants about pot, boyenga.
:deadhorse:

Saggin'Pants=TameThaTane

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 21 2008,11:00 am

So, I can't have my own opinion now?

You need to take chill and :finger:

off.

menace616=stinking troll

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,3:22 pm

QUOTE

So, I can't have my own opinion now?

Yes, you can. Everyone here is allowed that.

I think it just sucks when people get caught up in attacking a person rather than challenging their opinions. It's not that fricken difficult to be mature and take responsibility for learning the difference.

:deadhorse:

Posted by Saggin'Pants on Sep. 21 2008,4:00 pm

It's what losers do who can't debate issues. They're on every forum.

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 21 2008,4:30 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 19 2008,10:22 pm)

QUOTE

< Hmmm >

Hmmmm?

Posted by menace616 on Sep. 21 2008,7:00 pm

(busybee @ Sep. 21 2008,3:22 pm)

QUOTE

So, I can't have my own opinion now?

Just wait Busybee, you'll see Saggin Pants(TameThaTane) true colors in no time........

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 21 2008,7:26 pm

(gurrah @ Sep. 21 2008,4:30 pm)

QUOTE

(MADDOG @ Sep. 19 2008,10:22 pm)

QUOTE

< Hmmm >

Hmmmm?

Yeah, hmmm.

I find some of this extremely interesting. First the Tribune admits it knows the names, but won't print them and now the CA saids he knows families of both the victims and the "alleged" perpetrators.

I'm wondering why this took so long for this case to be turned over to the AG. :dunno:

Posted by whatthe on Sep. 21 2008,7:45 pm

Maddog-First the Tribune admits it knows the names, but won't print them and now the CA saids he knows families of both the victims and the "alleged" perpetrators.

When did these two things happen.I really would like to see proof of who knows what?

Does CA know victims and perps-? How many perps are there-?

Thanks

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,8:36 pm

QUOTE

Just wait Busybee, you'll see Saggin Pants(TameThaTane) true colors in no time........

Thanks for the advice.

You could be right, Saggin' Pants might be TTT. I've been around long enough and have formed my own opinion, if it is. I'm not one that takes on other's opinions, unless I personally have reason to share the same perspective.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 21 2008,8:38 pm

QUOTE

Nelson said the decision came after consulting with Assistant Attorney General Jennifer Hasbargen about the case.

“It’s clear to me that I am a person from and of this community,” he said. “Obviously I know and am friends with family members of the alleged victims. I know and am acquaintances of family members of the alleged perpetrators.
< link >

As far as the Tribune knowing, they admitted it in one of their responses in their comments in a previous article.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,8:42 pm

QUOTE

Anything that involves the CA & abuse allegations is interesting... :frusty:

Posted by gurrah on Sep. 21 2008,11:24 pm

(MADDOG @ Sep. 21 2008,7:26 pm)

QUOTE

(gurrah @ Sep. 21 2008,4:30 pm)

QUOTE

(MADDOG @ Sep. 19 2008,10:22 pm)

QUOTE

< Hmmm >

Hmmmm?

the link leads no where.

Posted by busybee on Sep. 21 2008,11:27 pm

You'd have to go to the archives on the Tribune site for that day (if that's the day Maddog posted it).

I don't think MD knows it doesn't work anymore....so try that or doing a search on the subject.

Posted by MADDOG on Sep. 22 2008,6:31 am

The link on post 237 is the current one.